The devastation of Parental Alienation

[dave32165]

Hi. I've been divorced for almost 2 years. My ex-spouse has a very high conflict type personality. At the time of the divorce she did numerous things to alienate our children from me. As a result, I do not see my eldest son at all, and I have strained relationships with my younger children. I have no idea if she is still actively undermining my role as a father, or if it's simply a matter of damage that has already been done. I am seeing a good counselor with my two younger kids, and that helps somewhat, but there is still very little emotional connection. I see them about 40% of the time, and when they are with me I do my best to be a great dad to them. I pack their lunches, go to every sporting event, cook nice dinners, do homework, etc. I do my best to have a relaxed, loving environment in my home. I do all these things, but there is almost no reciprocation. We used to be so close. It's hard to describe the anguish of losing that.

 

I put together this video to tell my story. I did this in part for my own therapy, and in part because I wanted other parents to avoid the hell of Parental Alienation. I knew my spouse had psychological issues, but I had never even heard of Parental Alienation, and was completely blindsided when it happened to me.

 

Parental Alienation is Real - YouTube

[jaymz]

Wow, this is my biggest fear but my STBXW is not a patch on yours.

 

Sorry bro, I hope all gets better for you and the kids soon. Keep up the good work you are doing with them, they will remember it when they are older.

[AllieKat]

Aww that made me cry! I cant believe thats how your exwife spoke with the kids around. Im so sorry you dont get to see your kids much and the oldest at all! My heart breaks for you.

[M30USA]

Hi. I've been divorced for almost 2 years. My ex-spouse has a very high conflict type personality. At the time of the divorce she did numerous things to alienate our children from me. As a result, I do not see my eldest son at all, and I have strained relationships with my younger children. I have no idea if she is still actively undermining my role as a father, or if it's simply a matter of damage that has already been done. I am seeing a good counselor with my two younger kids, and that helps somewhat, but there is still very little emotional connection. I see them about 40% of the time, and when they are with me I do my best to be a great dad to them. I pack their lunches, go to every sporting event, cook nice dinners, do homework, etc. I do my best to have a relaxed, loving environment in my home. I do all these things, but there is almost no reciprocation. We used to be so close. It's hard to describe the anguish of losing that.

 

I put together this video to tell my story. I did this in part for my own therapy, and in part because I wanted other parents to avoid the hell of Parental Alienation. I knew my spouse had psychological issues, but I had never even heard of Parental Alienation, and was completely blindsided when it happened to me.

 

Parental Alienation is Real - YouTube

 

40% of the time is better than lots of fathers have. It's not the quantity, but the quality. I currently have 15%. This is because I have standard possession and live more than 100 miles away.

[standtall]

Wow,,that sounds like a lot of people's situations here. Lesson for all the posters here on both sides...the perpetrators...for how they sound and use the kids..and for the victims...for how they sound and use the kids. This is why we use outside people..the court system..to settle divorce and custody cases..the people involved cannot see this objectively.

[M30USA]

Wow,,that sounds like a lot of people's situations here. Lesson for all the posters here on both sides...the perpetrators...for how they sound and use the kids..and for the victims...for how they sound and use the kids. This is why we use outside people..the court system..to settle divorce and custody cases..the people involved cannot see this objectively.

 

Are you kidding? The courts don't see it any more objectively than the parents. It's still the default for women to win custody cases. I literally know a mom who won custody and she is a known, current drug addict; and her ex-husband is a fully-functioning dad. I just lost a custody case--myself--to my ex who literally got arrested for domestic violence against me with police documentation. Objective? Bah.

[William]

As a general announcement, to stave off troll callouts or other challenges to authenticity, moderation presumes the *topic* to be a valid one and has determined that the thread starter is not attempting to spam the forums. Hence, discussion will be limited to the *topic*, in general.

[Cedarman]

Man, that is heartbreaking.

 

I just separated, and I am hoping my wife doesn't do this. I know that when we used to argue, she would always seem to break into tears if she knew the kids were close by. Then I would have to answer the question "Why did you make Mommy cry, Daddy?". I know it's not nearly the same extent, but it is amazing how manipulative people can become when there is a conflict and children are involved.

[M30USA]

Man, that is heartbreaking.

 

I just separated, and I am hoping my wife doesn't do this. I know that when we used to argue, she would always seem to break into tears if she knew the kids were close by. Then I would have to answer the question "Why did you make Mommy cry, Daddy?". I know it's not nearly the same extent, but it is amazing how manipulative people can become when there is a conflict and children are involved.

 

Yep, which is why we ultimately have to choose what is RIGHT or what preserves our own flesh and blood. Even the animal kingdom does the latter. Are we merely animals?

 

They say a person's true colors come out in crisis situations. People tend to forget how they acted during divorce proceedings, etc, and then when it all settles out, they think, "See? I'm back to my normal self again." But the truth is that their normal self was how they acted under pressure and crisis--not now when they are living a life which was a RESULT of their deception and trickery.

[Tiberius]

Are you kidding? The courts don't see it any more objectively than the parents. It's still the default for women to win custody cases. I literally know a mom who won custody and she is a known, current drug addict; and her ex-husband is a fully-functioning dad. I just lost a custody case--myself--to my ex who literally got arrested for domestic violence against me with police documentation. Objective? Bah.

 

Its a bit the fault of men too, for giving marriage to about EVERY woman. Only because you knock her up does not make her marriage material.

[M30USA]

Its a bit the fault of men too, for giving marriage to about EVERY woman

 

Guilty as charged.

[dave32165]

Thanks for all the replies. Someone asked how long it took for her to become that way, and the answer is almost immediately. I failed to see the warning signs prior to marriage, though they were there.

[M30USA]

Thanks for all the replies. Someone asked how long it took for her to become that way, and the answer is almost immediately. I failed to see the warning signs prior to marriage, though they were there.

 

Would you say that going through this has made you MORE or LESS like Jesus Christ? If you say more, then you should thank God for what you've gone through--as bad as it was.

[riverratt]

Hopefully, They will finally come around. It probably wont happen till they are adults, if they do.

 

My ex and I don't do this. I do know if she did it would have backfired on her. My son and I are very close and always will be.

 

Sorry, but your ex is an idiot.

[standtall]

Are you kidding? The courts don't see it any more objectively than the parents. It's still the default for women to win custody cases. I literally know a mom who won custody and she is a known, current drug addict; and her ex-husband is a fully-functioning dad. I just lost a custody case--myself--to my ex who literally got arrested for domestic violence against me with police documentation. Objective? Bah.

 

There are no absolutes about human behavior and I don't speak in them. Your angry post makes my case about the directly involved parties having no objectivity....thank you.

Edited October 27, 2012 by standtall

[Gunny376]

This is a subject that is near and dear to my "heart of hearts"

 

In the whole of my life I can honestly say that I've never really actually ever hated anyone? I cannot say that anymore.

 

I HATE my XHEX.

 

Not because she was a WWW, not because she cheated on me, not because she's insecure and lacking in self confidence and self esteem (More on that subject later) Not because she dumped me, our family, a twelve year marriage for a "Toy-boy" ~ "Yes'em Man" that she can control and manipulate. None of that.

 

At the time? I loved her enough that I would have rather have seen here happy with someone else than miserable with me. Its hard being a military wife ~ its really hard being the wife of a United States Marine, especially a career Marine. It takes a very special kind of woman to be the wife of a career military man ~ especially a Marine, or somone that's in the a quick and fast deployable organization as such.

 

The hardest job in the Marines? Isn't being a Marine! Its being the WIFE of a Marine ~ and the Mother of a Marine's children.

 

No I HATE my XHEX because of what happened AFTER the divorce. The whole parential alienation. My son and daughter bought off on it hook, line and sinker. My DD is coming around, but I've not seen nor spoken to my DS28 for eight years because of it. (I've tried, and tried, and tried ~ I still send cards, letters, money, gifts) When the XHEX divorced me? She didn't want to divorce me as her husband? She wanted to divorce me as the Father or "Our" children!

 

Because of her and her BS? I HATE her! I hate the air she breathes, the ground she walks on. I hate her with the brightness of ten-zillion supernovas. Criminal and civil liabilties aside for not taking action expected of a citizen? I wouldn't spit on her let alone piss on her were she to suddenly sponteously conbust!

[M30USA]

There are no absolutes about human behavior and I don't speak in them. Your angry post makes my case about the directly involved parties having no objectivity....thank you.

 

If you can't recognize the blatant bias against men/fathers in divorce court, then it truly is useless debating this with you. Would you say that the anger of blacks in the 1960s made them unable to objectively see their situation? Bah.

[dave32165]

Regarding the issue of bias against men, I have to say that I definitely experienced it, not so much with our judge, but certainly with regard to child services. The backdrop, which I only learned about later, is that my wife had our kids convinced that I was going to try to kidnap them and that they "would never see their mom again." Imagine how terrifying that would be for a little kid! If you were that kid, wouldn't you say anything to prevent that from happening? Well, child services interviewed our entire family (me last). When I walked into the center for my interview, the first thing they did was have a police officer pat me down!! I swear I am not making that up. I'm a medical professional with absolutely no criminal record whatsoever. I was nicely dressed and of course being very polite, and yet their default was to treat me like a criminal. Do you think they patted down my wife? Well, during the course of the interview I described the crazy behavior of my wife, including violence toward me and very recently toward my eldest son. I then offered to share with them some of the audio, as well as some other dramatic evidence of her emotional volatility (e.g. x-ray of the finger she broke when she was "disciplining" our eldest son), but their response was, "We already talked to your wife and your kids. We don't need to see any of that." Did you get that? CPS had already interviewed my wife and kids TOGETHER, in order to get the "true" story. At the end of our interview they pulled out a piece of paper, which they had already written up, asking me to limit myself to supervised visitation or my kids, based upon my "emotional abuse" of them, basically saying that my kids were afraid to be with me. Did you get that? They had ALREADY drafted their recommendation before speaking to me and before reviewing any of the hard evidence. Thank God for my judge. She reviewed all the evidence, disregarded CPS entirely, and immediately instituted emergency visitation orders for me and my kids! So, that battle was won, but the battle for the hearts and minds of my kids was just beginning.

[standtall]

If you can't recognize the blatant bias against men/fathers in divorce court, then it truly is useless debating this with you. Would you say that the anger of blacks in the 1960s made them unable to objectively see their situation? Bah.

 

Nice try on trying to compare this to the civil rights struggle of the 60's. Great BS distraction tactic.

 

Yes, there is bias, but it is a lot more neutral than the rabid, angry, and bitter bias of the parties directly involved. And yes, it is useless debating with me as you have yet to make a valid point.

[Yasuandio]

Dave, I do not have any children, just a recent preotracted divorce. I do like to read posts on LS and saw a ling on Parental Alienation that Gunny suggested to anotherr OP. I clicked and became interested in the topic. Your U-Tube Video is extremely painful to see unfold, but in a very brief time format, you created a a diffcult masterpiece that demonstrates the devestation of Parental Alienation on not only the parent and children.

 

Your openness and kindness in beginning a thread on this horrible topic, too, is the beginning of educationg people, and exposing the complete mystery and denial attached to this dance of anger that obviously couples in trouble, social services, councilors, courts need to be aware of. You are to be commended, sir.

 

Have you considered writing a book? I'm sure posters on LS would eagerly participate in providing case study examples, as well as their responses to this thread. You are very talented. Yas

[M30USA]

Nice try on trying to compare this to the civil rights struggle of the 60's. Great BS distraction tactic.

 

Yes, there is bias, but it is a lot more neutral than the rabid, angry, and bitter bias of the parties directly involved. And yes, it is useless debating with me as you have yet to make a valid point.

 

Delineate for me how my analogy is "BS". Men are clearly denied the equal rights to their children which they deserve--if they are good fathers. You are the one who is talking BS. How anyone could live in America and NOT see the obvious bias against men in family court is beyond me.

[Yasuandio]

Delineate for me how my analogy is "BS". Men are clearly denied the equal rights to their children which they deserve--if they are good fathers. You are the one who is talking BS. How anyone could live in America and NOT see the obvious bias against men in family court is beyond me.

 

You don't get it man. This is a really elegant, creative, human being that shared a personal story for educational purposes about Parental Alienation. You are really missing the whole point of this topic, and are goofing uo the OP's contribution to LS with your argumentative personal agenda. Dude, just start your own thread.

 

Moderators, don't you see some policy irregulararities with this M30USA's posts? I mean, IMHO, he is really spoiling a great thread.If someone latches on to the last post, the whole topic is lost.

 

We know adults do this to each other all the time. But when adults brainwash children against their own parent and kin, it is even more insidious and unconscionable - there is no word to describe it - the act is so horrendous, and ungodly selfish. This is a really important topic, it's bullying, ostracism, and shunning in it's worst, most inhumane light. It is so critical to keep the dalogue on spot.

 

Yas

[Gunny376]

 

We know adults do this to each other all the time. But when adults brainwash children against their own parent and kin, it is even more insidious and unconscionable - there is no word to describe it - the act is so horrendous, and ungodly selfish. This is a really important topic, it's bullying, ostracism, and shunning in it's worst, most inhumane light. It is so critical to keep the dalogue on spot. Yas

 

Spot on Yas ~ spot on! You nailed it right square on the head. And its not JUST parents doing this to other parents, its not just women doing this to men ~ its aunts, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers. Such that more than a just a few States have passed laws giving grandparents the right to visit with and see their grandchildren.

 

Its "gaslighting" at its worse and in it worse form! :eek: :mad: And to the most impressionable and vulnerable.

 

This thread is about Parential Alienation ~ not about "Men's Rights" or the injustices against men per say in the divorce court system! Thank you very much!

[Yasuandio]

Spot on Yas ~ spot on! You nailed it right square on the head. And its not JUST parents doing this to other parents, its not just women doing this to men ~ its aunts, uncles, grandfathers, grandmothers. Such that more than a just a few States have passed laws giving grandparents the right to visit with and see their grandchildren.

 

Its "gaslighting" at its worse and in it worse form! :eek: :mad: And to the most impressionable and vulnerable.

 

This thread is about Parential Alienation ~ not about "Men's Rights" or the injustices against men per say in the divorce court system! Thank you very much!

 

Thank you for the correction Gunny. As a divorced non-parent, and with only one living relative left (brother) I m not in any position to even imagine how widespread this PA cancer is. But, as Gunny points so accurately points out, I know a topic that needs to be explored, and I know my blank from a hole in the ground unlike some person in the USA. Yas

Edited October 28, 2012 by Yasuandio

[M30USA]

Regarding the issue of bias against men, I have to say that I definitely experienced it, not so much with our judge, but certainly with regard to child services. The backdrop, which I only learned about later, is that my wife had our kids convinced that I was going to try to kidnap them and that they "would never see their mom again." Imagine how terrifying that would be for a little kid! If you were that kid, wouldn't you say anything to prevent that from happening? Well, child services interviewed our entire family (me last). When I walked into the center for my interview, the first thing they did was have a police officer pat me down!! I swear I am not making that up. I'm a medical professional with absolutely no criminal record whatsoever. I was nicely dressed and of course being very polite, and yet their default was to treat me like a criminal. Do you think they patted down my wife? Well, during the course of the interview I described the crazy behavior of my wife, including violence toward me and very recently toward my eldest son. I then offered to share with them some of the audio, as well as some other dramatic evidence of her emotional volatility (e.g. x-ray of the finger she broke when she was "disciplining" our eldest son), but their response was, "We already talked to your wife and your kids. We don't need to see any of that." Did you get that? CPS had already interviewed my wife and kids TOGETHER, in order to get the "true" story. At the end of our interview they pulled out a piece of paper, which they had already written up, asking me to limit myself to supervised visitation or my kids, based upon my "emotional abuse" of them, basically saying that my kids were afraid to be with me. Did you get that? They had ALREADY drafted their recommendation before speaking to me and before reviewing any of the hard evidence. Thank God for my judge. She reviewed all the evidence, disregarded CPS entirely, and immediately instituted emergency visitation orders for me and my kids! So, that battle was won, but the battle for the hearts and minds of my kids was just beginning.

 

CPS is the modern day equivalent of the secret services of totalitarian regimes. They don't believe in due process and they believe all accusations against fathers. Why? Because they have FINANCIAL INCENTIVE from the government. The more children they rip away from parents (ie, fathers) the more money they get. Ain't that lovely? And then children are 5x more likely to be abused in the case of foster care.