The devastation of Parental Alienation

[dave32165]

Although bias against men was definitely a component in my case, Yas is right that that is not the focus of my video. My two main goals were to raise awareness of Parental Alienation, and to help other people avoid the horror of it. Parental Alienation is still a very controversial topic among legal and mental health professionals. There is much debate over whether it is a syndrome, or a disorder, or just a relationship problem, etc. And there is much debate regarding admissibility in court. Sadly, while everyone is trying to figure it all out, lives are being destroyed by it.

 

As I continue to deal with the pain of the aftermath, I find some solace in trying to help other people learn from my story. I myself was clueless at the time, and I made a number of bad decisions because of it.

[Got it]

dave,

 

I am so sorry for what you have gone through. My fiance has been going through the same and continues to try and fight to get his kids back. One of them has been much more open to him but the others are still a work in progress. The kids were thrown into the middle of the divorce, were used as weapons and even stated that the goal was to destroy him. He actually agreed to a move because of where his ex and the kids were going to move to and after he accepted the relocation, she reneged and so he went from seeing them every other weekend to when he could fly back into town.

 

He continues to struggle with the depression brought on by this behavior. He was also denied consent to do therapy with the kids and the one over 18 refuses to do therapy with him.

 

It is a very hard thing to watch. This, and other reasons, is why we will have a prenup done, laying out the groundwork of any future divorce, and spelling out the custody and visitation of the children. I do not want either one of us to worry about our kid(s) being used as weapons.

 

Ugh, so sorry for you. Based on others that I have talked to, it seems to get better when the kids get older, easier for them to see the reality of things.

 

I know of another guy, my friend's brother, who has been taking through the wringer by his ex. She has claimed child abuse, neglect, etc on him with no evidence. He is a shell of the man he once was and he still doesn't understand why she hates him like she does.

[Downtown]

Parental Alienation is still a very controversial topic among legal and mental health professionals. There is much debate over whether it is a syndrome, or a disorder, or just a relationship problem, etc.

Dave, that debate about it arising from a disorder is not evident at YouTube. About 90% of the videos listed alongside yours -- as being related in subject -- are about BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder).

 

Moreover, a 1993 Canadian study of battered and abused spouses found that nearly all of the batterers suffered from a personality disorder -- and half of them had full blown BPD. Roger Melton summarizes those findings at Romeo's Bleeding - When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong -- Health & Wellness -- Sott.net.

 

Because BPDers rely heavily on black-white thinking, they can perceive of the spouses and ex-spouses as "all black" -- that is, they convince themselves they are dealing with Hitler incarnate and will treat you accordingly. My BPDer exW, for example, is so vindictive and mean that she alienated four of my five adult stepkids -- to the point that only the one remaining step child has kept in contact with me over the past six years.

[dave32165]

Yeah, Downtown, I think BPD traits are the key underlying cause in a lot of cases of Parental Alienation, certainly in mine. I still have a note from my ex-spouse that she wrote to me, extolling my virtues as a father and husband, how calm and relaxed I am around the kids, how I help out with them all the time, and how they know how much I love them, etc. She wrote that about a year prior to our separation. At the time of divorce, however, she told every human being she could, including friends, family, and counselors, and the guardian ad litem, etc., what a horrible father I was, how I was NEVER there for our kids, and how I was short-tempered and so on. Complete fabrications, and completely ironic, especially the part about being short-tempered, since that is by far her biggest fault, and I was always exceedingly patient during her raging episodes. That crazy cycle of going from all-white to all-black in her mind took place throughout our marriage. Now, of course, I'm forever all-black, and unworthy of the affections of HER children. Sadly my kids are so emotionally dependent upon her that they are powerless to resist her manipulation.

[Gunny376]

I'm forever all-black, and unworthy of the affections of HER children. Sadly my kids are so emotionally dependent upon her that they are powerless to resist her manipulation.

 

When I divorced from the XHEX? There wasn't any internet, etc. I didn't have a freaking clue about PA. Back in the day I was still pretty dumb and naive. You get divorced, you move on to another chapter in and with your life. Little did I know that I hadn't seen nothing yet! :confused:

 

I've had to eat so much crow, indigination, humilation, disrespect, ,..........................(just fill in the freaking blank!) You finally just have to move on. Its either that or go and find youself a half gallon of Jack Daniels and a Colt .45. And say WTF! It literally gets down and for me has gotten down to that level. And, those that know me? Would describe me as anything other than 'weak minded"

 

And its not just men that are going through that. Mrs. Gunny is going through it with her children and her XMother-In-law. The Golden Rule applies ~ He or she that has the gold makes the rules.

 

I read in Dear Annie (formerly Dear Ann) or Dear Abby in the local newspapers from a DD, whose dad had money, and she and her brother went with him and his PA. Finally the DM took all that she could and moved away never to be seen nor heard from again. The DD realized too late the flim~flam that had her Dad had pulled ~ (As Mrs Gunny's chldren are starting to realize) But it was too late.

 

All the DM wanted? The same thing I wanted ~ and all I wanted. The Love and admiration of my children, grandchildren. Nothing more ~ nothing less. I don't want any money from them, would rather sleep in a hollow log, eat roadkill and drink muddy water before I asked them for anything or to take me in. I don't want to be in their business nor tell them how to live their lives, (their adults)

[William]

As a note from moderation, there have been no reports of this thread not meeting published guidelines and I only deleted one post prior to my first announcement, due to it being a troll callout.

 

Issues affecting one's parental role are often emotionally charged but postings which address the topic and conform to guidelines are permitted. Leave moderation to moderators, report perceived non-compliance and continue to post on these forums. That applies to everyone here. Over and out.

[pink_sugar]

I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you, OP. I thought my situation was a minority. My dad tried and still tries to brainwash us to stop speaking to my mom because of things she did many years ago. Despite the fact that she has changed for the better. I also know others with similar issues. It's very sad and emotionally destructive to the kids, because the other parent is part of them still and whenever you sabotage the other parent, you're really harming your kids too.

[MuscleCarFan]

Hi. I've been divorced for almost 2 years. My ex-spouse has a very high conflict type personality. At the time of the divorce she did numerous things to alienate our children from me. As a result, I do not see my eldest son at all, and I have strained relationships with my younger children. I have no idea if she is still actively undermining my role as a father, or if it's simply a matter of damage that has already been done. I am seeing a good counselor with my two younger kids, and that helps somewhat, but there is still very little emotional connection. I see them about 40% of the time, and when they are with me I do my best to be a great dad to them. I pack their lunches, go to every sporting event, cook nice dinners, do homework, etc. I do my best to have a relaxed, loving environment in my home. I do all these things, but there is almost no reciprocation. We used to be so close. It's hard to describe the anguish of losing that.

 

I put together this video to tell my story. I did this in part for my own therapy, and in part because I wanted other parents to avoid the hell of Parental Alienation. I knew my spouse had psychological issues, but I had never even heard of Parental Alienation, and was completely blindsided when it happened to me.

 

Parental Alienation is Real - YouTube

 

Oh wow, that video of yours sure is sad.

 

It reminds me of one of my cousins (Mom's side) where my uncle was alienated from his son and hadn't seen him for 20 years till we visited him in the hospitable because he was sick from diabetes!

[climbergirl]

I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you, OP. I thought my situation was a minority. My dad tried and still tries to brainwash us to stop speaking to my mom because of things she did many years ago. Despite the fact that she has changed for the better. I also know others with similar issues. It's very sad and emotionally destructive to the kids, because the other parent is part of them still and whenever you sabotage the other parent, you're really harming your kids too.

 

This in bold is what parents should be thinking before making disparaging remarks about the other parent. I am a firm believer that what you say about the parent you are also saying about the child.

 

When my ex and I started our divorce, our judge made a pre trial judgement that our son would benefit from being with his dad most of the time and our daughters with me. It wasn't set in stone, only our judge's suggestion. That was the set up that we had and I regret it as I had no idea that my ex would say the things he did (and after 10 years divorced-still does).

 

It's very difficult to hear these things, these untruths, and not say anything but, "that's not true". My kids have wondered why I don't defend myself, but I can only deny...as further explanation borders on doing what he's doing. It hasn't worked on our girls, but the vicious things he has said have permanently damaged my relationship with our son. And we were very close before our divorce started.

 

I am so sorry that you are going through this, Dave. I would like to say that perhaps your ex will see the damage she is doing, but will admit that I am a bit jaded. I have come to believe that narcissism is at the root of alienation, and doesn't give me hope that she will change.

 

All we can do is keep being a good role model for our children in hopes that we will see the 'real' us and not this painting that has been drawn of us.

[VictoriousDad]

Hey dave32165. Thanks for your post and for sharing your video. The video was very painful to listen to. I actually stopped it before it was half through. The topic of Parental Alienation hits very close to home for me. I am at the end of the divorce process after ten years of marriage. My situation differs from yours in that she wasn't a name-caller; nor was she consistently physically abusive (Although, there was that one time when she attacked me and called the police and I was charged with assaulting her). In my case, at around year 3 of the marriage, she completely cut me off emotionally. Stopped talking to me, kicked me out the bedroom and created a whole new separate life for herself and our kids while I was still living in the same house. She then went on this campaign of making false allegations of child abuse against me. She NEVER went to the police or CPS or anything during the marriage. However, she told our friends, church members, family, etc. behind my back. When I finally moved out and filed, she filed a string of false claims against me w/CPS. We're at #10 now. Each investigation has ended with a "Ruled Out" verdict, which is good; but the net result is each time robs me of weeks and months of absolutely no contact with my kids. What must they be thinking about me?? The court called for a psychological evaluator to come in to see what was going on. I was cleared and she was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder; yet, CPS and the Courts still entertain her ceaseless false allegations. Before I moved out, I witnessed her saying disparaging things about me to the kids or to me in front of the kids. I know for a fact that this continues. I was told by an attorney that 9 out of 10 men would've given up by now. I will not quit on my kids! I see this as a battle for their mental and emotional well-being as well as for my relationship with them and my rights as father. Until now, I've placed my faith in the Courts and the fact that I have truth on my side. I have never abused my kids! I've done what the Courts have ordered, paid what I've been ordered to pay and have not retaliated or attacked her. That has gotten me nowhere! My strategy has now changed. Sure, I'll stay within the law and I won't verbally attack her to the kids because this would due tremendous harm to them; but, I have gone on the attack as it were. I have filed the first of what will likely be several Motions for Contempt against her. I've asked that the Courts lock her up ton enforce its Orders. That may sound cruel to some; but, there has to be a substantial penalty for the crimes that are being committed against the kids and the parent who's being attacked. Plus, it's the only thing that can make her stop. Each time she files another claim that results in the disruption of my visitation, I will file another motion. I feel that I have to force the Courts to do what's right by me and my kids! dave32165, sadly, your story is not unique. Nor is mine. Parental Alienation is a widespread epidemic. I think it helps a great deal for those who are embroiled in this battle to share their stories and to share what they did that was effective. Those who come behind us can benefit from our stories and hopefully avoid some of the pain that we have endured.

Edited November 5, 2012 by VictoriousDad
Added some verbiage; corrected grammatical errors.

[health]

Jesus Christ! Excellent video, very, very, very amazing! I thought I lived in a toxic house! Damn! Get away from her, try to see your kids and become a success story. What you created is inspiring and a wake up call. What a bitch! lol Run far away from her!

[Gunny376]

For all that have posted but especially to V-Dad I would especially like to extend a heart felt "Thank You" Especially in reference to Narcissistic Personality Disorder! When I did a Google search on the matter? It was a dead wringer for the XHEX andfor me answered SO many unanswered questions, bewilderment, befuddlement, confusion,__________________(fill in the blank.

 

For me, the NPD goes hand in hand with the parential alienation. Unfortunately all this comes to late for me. The Internet ~ with Love Shack in particular has been an invaluable tool in trying to get out from the swamp of my divorce. For YEARS UPON YEARS ~ I personalize my failed marriage. Beat myself up horribly, crawled inside of a bottle of Scotch or Canadian (Poison of choice). That combined with my experiences of over twenty years in the Marine Corps, PTSD, depression, just trying to find a reason to go on living ~ hope against hope ~ slogging through life ~ not really living for the past twenty-two years ~ just exsisting ~ going through the motions of living.

 

I've lost my son, am completely alienated from him. I'm the first to admitt and to stand up and testify that I wasn't the best nor greatest Father there ever was. Anyone who ever has been a parent can look back with razor clarity of 20/20 hindsight vision and just wallow in "would have, could have, should have's"

 

But I was far, far, far, far away from ever being the worse father there ever was.

 

I did ~ I abosolutely did the absolute best that I knew and could do at the time. All that I knew, gave all that there was to give. Improvished myself. Per the experience? Hindsight being what it is? I could have should have done more.

 

It is what it is ~ what was ~ WAS! What is ~ Is! And what will be? Will be!

 

Thank you from the absolute bottom of my heart V-Dad! I say this with tears in my eyes. Your post has FINALLY brought me peace. It WASN'T JUST ME AND MY SHORTCOMINGS AS A PERSON, AN INDIVIDUAL, A HUMAN BEING.

[dave32165]

Thanks for all the responses and the discussion. It's both sad and comforting to know that I'm not alone in facing this. Fortunately I have friends and family who support me, but even they don't seem to understand just how agonizing it all is.

 

Regarding false allegations: there is nothing I find more frustrating than this. I experienced it myself, but nowhere near as bad as some guys. False allegations, when proven false must be punished!! My spouse committed undeniable perjury in front of a domestic court judge, proven by audio tape, and yet there was no punishment for her whatsoever.

[M30USA]

Thanks for all the responses and the discussion. It's both sad and comforting to know that I'm not alone in facing this. Fortunately I have friends and family who support me, but even they don't seem to understand just how agonizing it all is.

 

Regarding false allegations: there is nothing I find more frustrating than this. I experienced it myself, but nowhere near as bad as some guys. False allegations, when proven false must be punished!! My spouse committed undeniable perjury in front of a domestic court judge, proven by audio tape, and yet there was no punishment for her whatsoever.

 

Yep. My ex denied assaulting me in our temporary hearing. Then, after she plead guilty in another court to get a minimal punishment, admitted to doing it in the final divorce. It was all on the record--a proven lie. But nothing was done and she STILL got primary custody!

[M30USA]

Whenever the subject of parental alienation comes up, just remember...in the alienating parent's warped opinion, it's actually in the best interest of the child to keep them from you. And remember the acronym: Best Interest Of The Child = BIOTCh! Learn your role and remember the other parent is BETTER than you, biotch, and always will be. (Sarcasm, of course.)

Edited November 8, 2012 by M30USA

[Gunny376]

Whenever the subject of parental alienation comes up, just remember...in the alienating parent's warped opinion, it's actually in the best interest of the child to keep them from you. And remember the acronym: Best Interest Of The Child = BIOTCh! Learn your role and remember the other parent is BETTER than you, biotch, and always will be. (Sarcasm, of course.)

 

I myself am not an overly "religious" man ~ although I am a very spiritual person. That is to say I don't "cotton" too much to organized religion of any given faith. But I do believe in not just "a" god, but God in the Christian since. That's a subject for a different time and place.

 

With that said? I will and do pray for you and the you will one day find peace and solstice in the fact that there will come a day of reckoning.

 

It will not be a punishment, it will not be a reconcilation, it will not be vengence, it will not be revenge. It will not be a settling of scores, pay-back, nor an accounting.

 

It will be PEACE and a reconcliation that you did all that you could do, you gave all that you had, that you did the best that you could do and knew to do at the time. You GAVE all that you had ~ 110+ per cent!

 

That day will come my friend ~ that day will come! Wait for it!

[M30USA]

I myself am not an overly "religious" man ~ although I am a very spiritual person. That is to say I don't "cotton" too much to organized religion of any given faith. But I do believe in not just "a" god, but God in the Christian since. That's a subject for a different time and place.

 

With that said? I will and do pray for you and the you will one day find peace and solstice in the fact that there will come a day of reckoning.

 

It will not be a punishment, it will not be a reconcilation, it will not be vengence, it will not be revenge. It will not be a settling of scores, pay-back, nor an accounting.

 

It will be PEACE and a reconcliation that you did all that you could do, you gave all that you had, that you did the best that you could do and knew to do at the time. You GAVE all that you had ~ 110+ per cent!

 

That day will come my friend ~ that day will come! Wait for it!

 

Thanks for the encouraging words! That really lifted up my day, brother.

[dave32165]

If anyone is interested in the rest of the story, I've started a website:

 

parentalalienationisreal.info

 

I hope it is a resource for others in similar situations. I'd appreciate any feedback.

 

Dave

[dave32165]

Here is a chapter I recently added to my online book on Parental Alienation: parentalalienationisreal.info

 

 

 

Chapter 14

Goodnight My Angel

 

 

"Okay, now make him look sad," I said.

 

Kendra contorted the stuffed animal's face to the appropriate expression, and then whimpered a little for added effect. This made me laugh.

 

It was bedtime. I was tucking my daughter in. We were lying side-by-side, our heads sharing the same pillow.

 

My wife and I had not yet fully separated. I was still spending my evenings at our home, but I was sleeping at a little apartment I had rented. There were no lawyers yet. We were considering counseling. But soon the violent episode between Andrew and his mother would take place, and the days of utter chaos would begin.

 

"Okay, just one more and then I have to go... now I want you to make him look surprised." Kendra raised the animal's paws up in the air, perked up his ears, and then spastically shook his whole body back and forth. I laughed again.

 

"That was perfect! Okay, now it's time for you to go to bed."

 

"But you have to stay in my room until I fall asleep."

 

"No cutie, I'm sorry. I can't do that. I have to go."

 

"But then I won't be able to sleep."

 

"I'm sorry honey, but it's time for me to go." I started heading out. I didn't want her to see me getting choked up.

 

"I love you Dad," Kendra said softly as I left her room. "I love you too Kendra," I replied.

 

As I walked down the hall I passed the master bedroom. The door was partially open, and I could see the dim shadows cast by my wife's reading lamp. I'm sure she was listening to everything.

 

"I love you Dad!" Kendra repeated loudly as I headed down the steps. "I love you too Kendra! I'll see you tomorrow night!" Had I only known the storm that was coming, I would have savored her words even more. After that night I would not hear them again.

 

I opened the front door. "I love you Dad!" Kendra shouted to me one last time. "Goodnight Kendra! I love you very much! Go to sleep now, okay?"

 

I stepped out into the cold and closed the door behind me.

 

 

I've replayed that scene in my head a hundred times, sometimes to the point of torturing myself. It reminds me of the many mistakes I made during our divorce. For example, I never should have rented that apartment. My goal at the time was to diffuse some of the tension in our home--to have a place to go when my wife would lose control. I wanted to finally set a boundary. I was not going to tolerate her behavior toward me any longer. However, the spin given to our friends and family, and even to the courts, was that I had essentially abandoned my family.

 

The second, and by far the most agonizing thing that scene reminds me of is how deeply my kids used to love me. Ask them about it now and they will deny it ever existed. Show them old pictures of us working on projects together or doing homework together or me throwing them into the swimming pool with big smiles on their faces, and they will somehow minimize it. Show them the countless videos I took of them at their concerts and ballgames and they will deny it was me behind the camera. "You hardly made it to any of my football games last year," my youngest son said to me shortly after the divorce. In fact, I had not missed a single one. But my son would not be convinced. History had been rewritten.

 

The third thing it reminds me of is how naive I was at the time. I did not understand the dynamics taking place, or the underlying psychology. I had never even heard of Parental Alienation. I pictured my wife on the other side of that door listening to my daughter say "I love you" to me, and I imagined her heart melting a little. But I was wrong. It didn't make her heart melt. It made it harden.

 

With every divorce there is deep hurt. In most circumstances the wounds heal with time. But with Parental Alienation there is an interruption of the natural healing process. Parental Alienation is like an infection that seeps into the wounds of a divorce and causes them to fester. It leaves ugly scars, and the scars it leaves last for a lifetime.

[WreckedDan]

Okay, now I'm terrified all over again. How does someone propperly protect their kids and themselves from this nightmare?

 

Dan

[sherri333]

Wow. I have heard these things go on but I had no idea to what extent. I am so sorry for you or ANYONE who has to go through this.

 

I am in almost an opposite situation where my STBEXH has been abusive, both verbally and physically in front of my daughter. We have had to lock ourselves in rooms crying together to get away from him. He was also an "absent" father for the first 6.5 years of her life. She will be 8 next month. Through all this they don't have the best relationship and she dreads her time with him. He is in IC and she is in IC and they sometimes have sessions together so they are working on things. Of course, I try to encourage her relationship with him but at the same time I feel HORRIBLE when she comes home and tells me "daddy yelled a lot this weekend" or "daddy left me at so and so's house this weekend because he had to work, etc". I am walking a fine line in ensuring my daughter's safety and encouraging her to have a relationship with her father. I could easily go the other way with pretty valid reasons for doing so but I know deep down he is not a bad person he just has mental problems and addiction problems. But he is working on those so as long as he continues to work on them I will try and facilitate their relationship the best that I can.

[Gunny376]

I understand and respect with admiration Sherri your commitment and I'm glad that your XH is getting the help that he needs. The world needs more people like you.

 

But I say that with qualification, that in your particular situation? You've got to walk the razor's edge in looking out for and protecting the short, mid-term, and long term mental and emotional health of your DD. And I've not doubt in my military mind that you will take whatever steps are necessary to do so! As well you should.

 

Many of us that suffer from PA (Parental Alienation) were just blind-sided by it never expecting such from our ex's! And more often than not its simply a case of wanting ~ needing to have one's ex completely out of the picture, and replaced by their new love interest.

 

This is just as mentally, emotionally, and psychologically devastating to the child's short, mid-term, and long-term development as what you would be compelled to deal with my being forced to take such measures as you would think is necessary to protect your DD were your XH not seeking to come to terms with his behavioral and attitude ~ perspective problems.

 

I feel empathy for you and your situation, but most of all?

 

I applaud you for just trying! And taking the high-road, when it would just be simpler and easier to not to do so!Its a hell of a lot more than a lot of people would do!

 

BRAVO! BRAVO FOR YOU! :bunny: :bunny: :bunny: