Why does American news ignore the Gary McKinnon case?

[Eve]

Ok, I watched the video, and I know that the Wikipedia article says that three leading experts have diagnosed Gary McKinnon with Aspergers...but I would have never known! I mean, there must be a point when a diagnosis does not actually impact someone in any negative way (or, in other words, cannot be used as an excuse for deviance). In fact, at times, could his genius be mistaken for something debilitating? Even Einstein probably had odd traits (actually, some like to think that Einstein also had Aspergers).

 

Those with Aspergers often perseverate on a topic of interest. But can a genius really not think deeply about the subjects of their interest (which may be mistaken for obsessive thoughts or ritualistic stemming)? I think, at least at times, the line between genius and illness can be very thin.

 

This man spoke with very appropriate intonation, and stayed on the topic of converstaion with no difficulty.

 

I just can't see his "disability".

Really?! Many consider US prisons to be pretty cush, relatively speaking. Are they thought to be bad?

 

I can only speak from experiences with teenagers, often newly diagnosed with Aspergers who are engaged in high risk behaviours/offending patterns.

 

The genius thing that people look for is not always visible because of behavioural problems usually stemming from a lack of awareness of social cues. High functioning females with Aspergers are the most interesting because they often are missed because of their gender. Over sexualised behaviours (with no history of abuse) is very common from an early age and they are especially vulnerable - but do not see this at all. Hence the underpinning theme is their level of vulnerability, which often is not cognitively recognised by them in the sense that they do not see themselves as vulnerable, at all. As such, persons with such a diagnosis should be regarded as disabled and this should be a factor in their sentencing where possible. As it stands many are diagnosed once they are in Prison.

 

In total, once social difficulties are understood by families and schools the child will usually then go on to thrive. This process can involve a lot of practical work such as making sure food/cutlery is placed in regular places and routines/punishments are adhered to by all family members to create a consistent environment. Really, things which every child/young person needs but this must be rigidly held to by carers.

 

Practically speaking, in terms of the criminal justice system in the UK, the current stance seems to be (for youngsters) to create individualised 'rule books' which centre on their safety. Visual methods have to be employed to show them the realities of consequences as this is not overtly seen or sensed; physically taking them to Prisons etc so they understand the seven dominant pathways into the criminal justice system. Usually this gap in awareness/knowledge is because of a sensory overload in touch, smell or other natural senses which can prevent even a hold on basic moral understanding. As such I would go by the comprehensive assessments by specialists who would collate information from before the person was seven years old and upwards to get a full picture of the person. Meaning, overall Aspergers is not something which can be assessed just by looking at someone, although there is a lot of talk about a high level of facial asymmetry being an indicator of the disorder.

 

What I find most interesting is the inability to take on any external systems of spirituality. They seem to have their own brand of spirituality which has little to do with conventional ideas/philosophies. As such moral definitions can be difficult to impart.

 

H'mmm..

 

We are all somewhere on the spectrum. I test extremely highly for Aspergers traits but I am not Autistic, so I don't know.

 

Regarding US Prisons, yes, they are seen to be too harsh, as too general American culture, mainly because practice is focused on the individual and 'prevention models' within Europe.

 

So, no, I would not want this person to be imprisoned for 60 years for one isolated act which can be medically identified. Ideally the person should still be fully respected (or understood) in the first instance, otherwise there is no true justice, no?

 

Sorry if I went on a bit.. as I do.

 

Take care,

Eve x

Edited October 28, 2012 by Eve

[fortyninethousand322]

Do you really want to get into, "if the government does it, why can't everybody else"?

 

And BTW, nobody from the government is going to admit to hacking.

 

Just because the US govt. may or may not do it, is not a defense.

 

Yeah actually I do.

 

Should hacking be a crime? Yeah. Do I want someone going to jail for it while our tax dollars go towards the same activity? No.

 

It's honestly no different than being opposed to drug raids.

 

But if you really feel like punishing him slap a fine on him and tell him not to do it again. That's a good solution.

[M30USA]

Neanderthals rode around in UFOs. *shrugs*

 

I never said Neanderthals flew around in UFOs. I believe angels, a portion of which sired offspring with human women, fly around in UFOs. Why is this implausible? Afterall, the Bible says God, himself, flies around in UFOs (Psalm 68:17, Psalm 104:3, Isaiah 66:15, etc.)

 

*When I use the term UFO, I am not attaching any meaning into it, other than its an object in the sky which is unidentified.

Edited October 28, 2012 by M30USA

[M30USA]

I probably have Asoberger's, lol. My area of focus is UFOs.

[pie2]

I can only speak from experiences with teenagers, often newly diagnosed with Aspergers who are engaged in high risk behaviours/offending patterns. ...the underpinning theme is their level of vulnerability, which often is not cognitively recognised by them in the sense that they do not see themselves as vulnerable, at all. As such, persons with such a diagnosis should be regarded as disabled and this should be a factor in their sentencing where possible.

 

I completely agree with you that the population you are working with benefits more from rehabilitative counseling/behavior techniques and interventions that can teach social skills and coping mechanisms to help manuever in social environments. This, as opposed to punishing them for behaviors they have little control over. I imagine that you see many teenages convicted of assault? Aggressive outbursts are not uncommon in people diagnosed on the Autism spectrum. This seems to be a symptom of a poor ability to interact in a socially-adept way.

 

From what I understand, people with Autism usually thrive in an structured environment, meaning that they seem to benefit from a clear understanding of the rules. It's when the rules are broken, or unclear, that they sometimes can't cope. So naturally, the very 'grey' world of social interaction (filled with unspoken, ever-changing, difficult-to-understand rules) poses quite a challenge.

 

However, Mr. McKinnon was charged with violating a rule that I'm sure he knew he was breaking. When he made comments (per Wiki) such as "I will continue to disrupt at the highest level" and "your security is crap", I think he had an idea that what he was doing was not ok.

 

Therefore, in this instance, I really don't think that his diagnosis had anything to do with his ability to understand that he was breaking the law, and he deserves to face the music, just like anybody else (I'm not advocating a 60-year sentence to be served in the US or anything...I really have no idea what is fair/normal in this case). Had he been accused of doing something that he couldn't control, due to Aspergers, I would think differently.

 

Ok, but just to bring this back on topic a bit...I imagine that if the gov't didn't want anyone knowing about this, no one would. How could it really be a conspiratorial cover-up if we're all reading about it and talking about it online?

[pie2]

I probably have Asoberger's, lol. My area of focus is UFOs.

 

No M30, you have a variety of interests. UFOs, Aliens, Angels...ok, well at least 3 , lol

[pureinheart]

This is a really good thread M30, and in the course of the posts was able to understand a little more on the subject of the Nehpilims (sp?) ...oh well M30, you know what I mean (my brain ran away, so if anyone should see it, could they send it home? Not kidding:eek:). This has been a difficult subject for me to understand, it's like there is some weird block. Hey and BTW, love your signature, it is very encouraging and really needed that scripture today. Thank you:)

[Eve]

 

However, Mr. McKinnon was charged with violating a rule that I'm sure he knew he was breaking. When he made comments (per Wiki) such as "I will continue to disrupt at the highest level" and "your security is crap", I think he had an idea that what he was doing was not ok.

 

Therefore, in this instance, I really don't think that his diagnosis had anything to do with his ability to understand that he was breaking the law, and he deserves to face the music, just like anybody else (I'm not advocating a 60-year sentence to be served in the US or anything...I really have no idea what is fair/normal in this case). Had he been accused of doing something that he couldn't control, due to Aspergers, I would think differently.

 

 

I would say that he needs to see the reality of what he has done (in ways which he can understand) and if he continues then yes, he should be duly prosecuted.

 

The part where he states that he will continue to do so, blah, blah is part of the diagnosis. It is important not to over react on that point.

 

I had one kid (a University level maths genius) who wanted nothing more than to do what McKinnon has done. He has been trying to do the same thing since the age of about 11 years old. He has now been redirected and understands the consequences.. though he still talks about it in unbridged terms. What I am saying is that the language used may never change! Social convention is not something persons who are autistic consider important. The outcome is important.

 

Hopefully whoever is dealing with him will have shown Mckinnon the benefits of something else, or some business or another will snap him up and give him something to put his brain into. I would prefer the latter than Prison because these individuals can somethimes be redirected.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[M30USA]

A timeless, spaceless, infinite spirit-being fits in (and at times requires for transportation) a UFO? Either that or you are completely misinterpreting those verses. I'm going to side with the latter for now, given that your premise is so internally inconsistent that it is incoherent.

 

Oh really? Did he not appear as a human being 2000 years ago? Your argument may make sense to you, but it's not biblical.

[serial muse]

Are you having me on? Seriously are you just trolling for lulz?

 

 

A timeless, spaceless, infinite spirit-being fits in (and at times requires for transportation) a UFO? Either that or you are completely misinterpreting those verses. I'm going to side with the latter for now, given that your premise is so internally inconsistent that it is incoherent.

 

Best laugh of the day.

 

I want to respond to this:

 

Speaking of Aspberger's and autism, does anybody know that these traits have been linked to Neanderthal genes? Yep. Time to throw the idea out the window which says Neanderthals were ogrish, dumb cave dwellers. Turns out numerous genetic traits which are linked to high intelligence are found in their genome. And why would this surprise anybody? We know the average Neanderthal cranial vault size was 200 cc larger than modern humans. Additionally--and this is where people will accuse me of my typical conspiracy theories--I believe Neanderthals were the Nephilim of the Bible: humans with angelic DNA. As laughable as this sounds, is it that unrealistic in light of the info I've presented here?

 

There is indeed plenty of evidence to suggest (as has been done by scientists for years) that Neanderthals were far from brutish. But it doesn't follow that they were smarter than humans (leaving aside the bit about being angels). It just means that they had organized societies and advanced tools and a kind of language.

 

Where to begin.

 

OK, first of all - brain size. Yes, Neanderthals had slightly larger crania (and also slightly bigger bodies). But if you're going to talk about brains, then it's important to point out that Neanderthal brains were shaped very differently and developed differently than Homo sapiens brains, which obviously includes the brains of humans on the autism spectrum. Shaped differently how? Larger olfactory bulbs, wider frontal lobes, longer temporal lobes. Evolutionarily, the structure of Neanderthal brains is more primitive than that of modern humans. There is also evidence to suggest that Neanderthals, a northern-dwelling species, had on average a larger visual cortex than H. sapiens - which thus took up relatively more of the real estate in those larger crania. See where I'm going with this?

 

So on to the genetics. The genome in question actually comes from a Denisovan fossil - a people that were closely related to the Neanderthals. Fun fact: Denisovan DNA is actually most similar to the DNA of Papua New Guinea natives (as opposed to northern Europeans).

 

Anyway, the scientists did not find a link between Denisovans and autism, exactly They were interested in differences between Denisovans and humans in specific parts of the genome - parts that are what's called "highly conserved", meaning that they don't tend to change much throughout time. So differences there would be relevant to recent human brain evolution.

 

They found 23 highly conserved regions that were different, including three that are ALSO linked to autism and other language disorders. Does that mean the Denisovans were autistic, or that autistic people are actually Denisovans? No, it does not. It means that the Denisovan genome had differences in these genes that we know are linked to language capability, and that improved language capability was one likely place in which modern humans differ from Denisovans.

 

The point here is that there's an awful lot we don't know about these ancient humans still, as we simply don't have that many specimens. And one could cherry-pick traits all the livelong day to try to relate one thing to another, while ignoring traits that don't support that hypothesis. But the actual link won't be any stronger at the end of the exercise than at the beginning.

 

And I guess the other point is that, if you're going to go with the angels hypothesis, then it seems that the Nephilim are actually from Papua New Guinea. I mean, why not, really.

Edited October 29, 2012 by serial muse

[Hawaii50]

Serially amusing. Never read anything of the sort, very interesting

[Hawaii50]

Sidenote... "Knowing" just came on the tele. That movie with that horrible actor, Nicholas Cage, where the Omni-beings come down like Noah preserving parts of Earth before a solar flare lights us all up. hmmm...

[norajane]

I probably have Asoberger's, lol. My area of focus is UFOs.

 

Any chance you could focus on solving world hunger or curing cancer or something more useful than angel DNA (wtf?) and UFO's? Why UFO's?

[serial muse]

Shaped differently how? Larger olfactory bulbs, wider frontal lobes, longer temporal lobes.

 

Just to make a correction to a typo I made - I meant that H. sapiens have these traits - larger olfactory bulbs and so forth - not Neanderthals.

[M30USA]

Any chance you could focus on solving world hunger or curing cancer or something more useful than angel DNA (wtf?) and UFO's? Why UFO's?

 

Care to share your own areas of interest? How much TV do you watch every day? You wanna talk about wasting time?

 

FYI, the UFO issue is important because, if I'm correctly interpreting the Bible on this, then the world needs to know. We have Christians who CLAIM to believe the Bible, yet when presented with the possibility that the same thing is going on today, they say its impossible and laugh--just like the children who came up to Elijah's friend after Elijah was taken up in a UFO and MOCKED HIM and LAUGHED at him. Some things never change.

[M30USA]

Serial muse,

 

Would you be able to describe the physical appearance of a typical Neanderthal? (Size, shape, hair color, and vocal tone?)

[norajane]

Care to share your own areas of interest? How much TV do you watch every day? You wanna talk about wasting time?

 

FYI, the UFO issue is important because, if I'm correctly interpreting the Bible on this, then the world needs to know. We have Christians who CLAIM to believe the Bible, yet when presented with the possibility that the same thing is going on today, they say its impossible and laugh--just like the children who came up to Elijah's friend after Elijah was taken up in a UFO and MOCKED HIM and LAUGHED at him. Some things never change.

 

Oh, I have plenty of useless interests which are just for fun for me. But I don't believe I'm on a mission to save humanity from itself through my useless interests.

 

I'm asking, if your purpose is to educate and inform the world (e.g., "the world needs to know"), I presume your purpose is to help the world. Why have you fixated on UFO's, specifically, when there are so many other ways to help the world which seem a bit more, concrete and practical and useful? Why are UFO's your obsession instead of something like curing cancer or feeding children?

[serial muse]

Serial muse,

 

Would you be able to describe the physical appearance of a typical Neanderthal? (Size, shape, hair color, and vocal tone?)

 

They know much more about the Denisovans, as I said, because they actually have a complete genome in that case. Dark skin, brown hair and eyes. Vocal tone? I have no idea, nor does anyone else. I'm not sure what you even mean by that.

 

For Neanderthals, we don't yet have a complete genome. The popular idea at the moment is that they had red hair and light eyes, but they occupied a pretty wide geographical area, and there is some evidence that there were brown-haired Neanderthals as well.

[M30USA]

I'm sorry if I came upon something which I believe very important and virtually ignored. Are you kidding me? You think the presence of potential life outside earth being currently here is useless? It's precisely for this reason the government doesn't disclose what they know: people would go nuts, stop going to work, etc.

[M30USA]

They know much more about the Denisovans, as I said, because they actually have a complete genome in that case. Dark skin, brown hair and eyes. Vocal tone? I have no idea, nor does anyone else. I'm not sure what you even mean by that.

 

For Neanderthals, we don't yet have a complete genome. The popular idea at the moment is that they had red hair and light eyes, but they occupied a pretty wide geographical area, and there is some evidence that there were brown-haired Neanderthals as well.

 

Precisely. Neanderthals have red hair.

 

Are you aware of the following?

 

1) Neanderthals, who I believe were half human and half angelic, had red hair.

 

1) King Tut and other Egyptian pharoahs were considered to be descendants of star gods. They had red hair. (Think about that in contrast to the typical dark-skinned and black-hair Egyptians.?

 

3) Xerxes, ancient ruler of Persia, a notably demonic nation in Bible, had red hair.

 

4) Shahanshah of Azerbaijan, first ruler king of modern Iran, had red hair. Iran is modern day Babylon, another significant demonic nation.

 

5) The Freemasons, largely a demonic group opposed to God which traces their heritage back to the rebellion in the Tower of Babel, have their world headquarters in Scotland--what color hair is there?

 

6) As ridiculous as UFO abduction claims are, when victims claim to have seen an "alien" which was human in appearance, it almost always has red hair. (A minority are blonde.) Why would these reports make up an insignificant detail like that?

 

7) Gary McKinnon, the very man who is the subject if this thread, has prominent red hair in his family. His moms hair is bright red.

 

NOTE: I am not implying that red hair makes a person "evil". I am just suggesting there is SOME relationship between Nephilim (angelic offspring) and the trait of red hair, along with certain traits such as Aspbergers or Autism. (By the way, both of which are proven to occur more in redheaded people! Look it up!) But I am currently working on my theory as there is still many loose ends.

[serial muse]

Precisely. Neanderthals have red hair.

 

Are you aware of the following?

 

1) Neanderthals, who I believe were half human and half angelic, had red hair.

 

1) King Tut and other Egyptian pharoahs were considered to be descendants of star gods. They had red hair. (Think about that in contrast to the typical dark-skinned and black-hair Egyptians.?

 

3) Xerxes, ancient ruler of Persia, a notably demonic nation in Bible, had red hair.

 

4) Shahanshah of Azerbaijan, first ruler king of modern Iran, had red hair. Iran is modern day Babylon, another significant demonic nation.

 

5) The Freemasons, largely a demonic group opposed to God which traces their heritage back to the rebellion in the Tower of Babel, have their world headquarters in Scotland--what color hair is there?

 

6) As ridiculous as UFO abduction claims are, when victims claim to have seen an "alien" which was human in appearance, it almost always has red hair. (A minority are blonde.) Why would these reports make up an insignificant detail like that?

 

7) Gary McKinnon, the very man who is the subject if this thread, has prominent red hair in his family. His moms hair is bright red.

 

NOTE: I am not implying that red hair makes a person "evil". I am just suggesting there is SOME relationship between Nephilim (angelic offspring) and the trait of red hair, along with certain traits such as Aspbergers or Autism. (By the way, both of which are proven to occur more in redheaded people! Look it up!) But I am currently working on my theory as there is still many loose ends.

 

So the part about Denisovans having dark hair - and they're the ones with the genetics that you were going on about - that just passed you by? This is what I just. said. - Denisovans had dark hair AND they are the ones with the so-called autism links you were interested in.

 

This is what I mean about cherry-picking data to fit your hypothesis, rather than developing a hypothesis from all the available data. Really not scientific.

[M30USA]

The Denisovians having black hair doesn't refute my theory any more than black-haired modern humans living together with Neanderthals refutes my theory.

[serial muse]

The Denisovians having black hair doesn't refute my theory any more than black-haired modern humans living together with Neanderthals refutes my theory.

 

The fact that you're conflating a whole buncha stuff to force-fit it into your theory is really telling. You make a big deal about linking genetic indicators of "high intelligence" (which, actually not, the genes are related to language ability, but whatever) to red-haired Neanderthals, and I tell you you've got it completely wrong, because those genes came from dark-haired Denisovans, NOT the red-haired Neanderthals, and you're saying that this doesn't refute your theory? What are you talking about? Of course it does.

 

Honestly, I don't even know what you're talking about at this point. It's like you want to play around the edges of science but you're not interested in really understanding it. It's only useful as a fake window dressing, apparently, to try to draw people in who won't question you.

 

Ugh, I'm out, yuck.

Edited October 29, 2012 by serial muse

[M30USA]

High intelligence isn't a requirement of my theory. Just like how not all the Nephilim were "giants". Some were, some weren't. The only absolute is lineage from beings outside earth. As with genetics, the degree of expression varies. And FYI, I have taken genetics in bio.

[pie2]

6) As ridiculous as UFO abduction claims are, when victims claim to have seen an "alien" which was human in appearance, it almost always has red hair. (A minority are blonde.) Why would these reports make up an insignificant detail like that?

 

7) Gary McKinnon, the very man who is the subject if this thread, has prominent red hair in his family. His moms hair is bright red.

 

Oh! Ok, so then Gary McKinnon is really an alien! And he was just searching for information about his homeland!

 

 

M30, you know I'm just playing! I had never, ever heard these theories before, and I would rather consider any idea out there at least, rather than remain the ignorant fool I am