Taking responsibility in a sexless marriage

[Robert Z]

In the past I have argued that no woman who loves her husband would ever deny him sex. Of course I was blasted for this, my position was misrepresented and twisted beyond recognition, and I decided not to engage in an endless nuclear war of false claims. So instead, I thought I would try addressing the same issue from a different angle.

 

If a woman [or man] no longer has an interest in sex, she [or he] should tell their partner directly and offer the option for divorce on the spot. No self sacrifice, no forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, just simple honesty and honor.

 

I realized that this is probably the most painful issue for me. My wife lied about her loss of desire for many years. And no doubt she did this because she didn't want me to leave. So I was manipulated and used. And it cost me at least 15 years of my life. Others here have argued that in such situations, the man is responsible to "maneuver" through the problem. But I think this is a red herring because the real problem is often just a biological loss of drive, which isn't a problem to be "maneuvered".

 

So if person with a loss of drive would feel like a sex slave to give affection to the person who committed to them for life, then as a simple matter of decency, be honest, admit that the sex is probably over forever, and offer a fair way out. Don't pretend that a sexless marriage was always supposed to be the deal. And don't take the other person to the cleaners financially for wanting a life. Simply admit that you can no longer honor your partner as a mate and move on.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Your wife doesn't even want to work on the problem with you?

 

Did she tell you she didn't want to tell you about the lose of her drive because she didn't want you to leave?

[Hawaii50]

I am different than most people, but yet fall under the same laws of physics and love that you do. I like to think this won't happen to me when I decide to get married.

 

I couldn't and wouldn't stand for neglect in a normal circumstance, like day-to-day life. It's something I probably would have brought up in the veryveryvery beginning.. like after a month. I've read your other posts about lying in bed literally frustrated. I've been there, but no where near the level... just over-night stuff when fighting with the gf or something.

 

Feel for yah sir'.

[Robert Z]

Your wife doesn't even want to work on the problem with you?

 

Did she tell you she didn't want to tell you about the lose of her drive because she didn't want you to leave?

 

We are no longer together. No she didn't tell me that this was the reason but clearly it was. I do know that she lied for at least 15 years. In fact we went to counseling several times and she lied to them too!

 

And this isn't about me. This is about women who deny sex to their husbands and expect them to just deal with it.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Robert Z

[Balzac]

My only concern w your premise is "taking them to the cleaners financially". I'm a firm believer that logical consequences should come into play, no doubt about that. The issue becomes how much the nonresponder spouse sacrificed career wise during the marriage, particularly regarding children. Not having walked in your community property shoes I'd be interested to hear though.

 

Like you, I would not tolerate a sexless union. I'm continually amazed to read sooo many stories about the existence of such marriages.

[Robert Z]

My only concern w your premise is "taking them to the cleaners financially". I'm a firm believer that logical consequences should come into play, no doubt about that. The issue becomes how much the nonresponder spouse sacrificed career wise during the marriage, particularly regarding children. Not having walked in your community property shoes I'd be interested to hear though. .

 

For us it was pretty simple. No kids and we both contributed about the same.

 

As for your essential point: Responsibility, yes. Revenge, no. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and her lawyer.

[Balzac]

Hard if not impossible to see that sexless can become scorned.

Revenge sought by monetary gain when one party withheld their part if the contract is just wrong.

 

Fortunately, men generally recover financially more quickly.

 

Nobody likes family law lawyers.

[Got it]

Robert, if that was the case I am surprised that she was able to take you to the cleaners if everything was pretty comparable between you two.

 

I agree, if I felt that my sex drive became non existent due to medical reasons and there was no fix then I would offer my spouse an opt out. I had the reverse issue where my spouse had less than a drive than me. So he was fine going months without sex and when he did it wasn't very good.

 

Sex is a big deal for me and I try and make sure to keep up my end of the bargain. I can say that there are times that I don't feel into it especially if we have been fighting a lot or I don't feel my needs are being considered or prioritized. I do get tired of having a man complain that he wants sex but doing nothing that I have said turns me on. Just being nice and spending time with me doesn't get my engine revved. I am not looking for two hours of foreplay but something is appreciated especially when it is never attempted until 11pm and I am the one that has to get up at 5 and not sleep in until after 7. (sorry threadjack vent )

[Robert Z]

Robert, if that was the case I am surprised that she was able to take you to the cleaners if everything was pretty comparable between you two.

 

I didn't mean to say that she did. But it happens every day with other men.

 

I agree, if I felt that my sex drive became non existent due to medical reasons and there was no fix then I would offer my spouse an opt out. I had the reverse issue where my spouse had less than a drive than me. So he was fine going months without sex and when he did it wasn't very good.

 

Sex is a big deal for me and I try and make sure to keep up my end of the bargain. I can say that there are times that I don't feel into it especially if we have been fighting a lot or I don't feel my needs are being considered or prioritized. I do get tired of having a man complain that he wants sex but doing nothing that I have said turns me on. Just being nice and spending time with me doesn't get my engine revved. I am not looking for two hours of foreplay but something is appreciated especially when it is never attempted until 11pm and I am the one that has to get up at 5 and not sleep in until after 7. (sorry threadjack vent )

 

No threadjack. The realities of everyday life can make it difficult. And I think any couple has to work to keep the flame alive, but that isn't the same thing as fundamentally losing interest or not even being willing to try.

[Cabin]

Others here have argued that in such situations, the man is responsible to "maneuver" through the problem. But I think this is a red herring because the real problem is often just a biological loss of drive, which isn't a problem to be "maneuvered".

 

I don't think you understand female sexuality.

 

Biological urges account for VERY little of the average woman's sexual drive.

 

I do agree with you that no one should have to waste their life being unfulfilled in a relationship; however, you weren't probably the only one feeling unfulfilled.

[Robert Z]

I don't think you understand female sexuality.

 

I don't think you do. A woman's drive clearly is biological. I just linked a study in the thread above that addresses this issue. The sex drive is directly related to the need for pair bonding. As soon as you get married or feel secure, for most women, the drive starts to drop. There is every chance that my marriage was a joke BECAUSE I was such a good husband. She felt completely in control and no threat.

 

And this is about women who have lost interest and cut off their husbands, not me.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Robert Z

[maybealone]

And this isn't about me. This is about women who deny sex to their husbands and expect them to just deal with it.

 

Judging by my experience and the men and women I have been friends with over the years, the number of women who deny sex to their husbands and the number of men that deny sex to their wives are about equal.

 

Simply admit that you can no longer honor your partner as a mate and move on.

 

Lacking a medical reason for the loss of a sex drive, I don't think that usually boils down to one spouse no longer honoring the other. I think there are usually underlying problems -- resentment, falling out of love, etc. -- that cause the lack of drive.

 

I agree that the discussions should be frank -- if you have no desire to uncover or fix the underlying problems, cut the bait. I also think that people would do themselves a favor by making sure that they can have frank discussions about sex with someone before the relationship becomes long term. If you are afraid to ask your spouse why he or she doesn't want sex anymore, then there likely were communication problems long before there were sexual problems.

[Mr. Lucky]

And this isn't about me. This is about women who deny sex to their husbands and expect them to just deal with it.

You had me until this statement. Loss of sexual compatibility, especially unresolved and long term, is certainly a problem and a justifiable deal-breaker for many. But to describe the issue as women denying men misses the fact that both genders can be either the "perps" or the "victims"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Robert Z]

Lacking a medical reason for the loss of a sex drive, I don't think that usually boils down to one spouse no longer honoring the other. I think there are usually underlying problems -- resentment, falling out of love, etc. -- that cause the lack of drive.

 

For years and years I accepted that argument. In many or most cases, I no longer believe it. Women have unrealistic expectations, biology gets in the way, and then they blame hubby for their loss of drive.

 

It is interesting that I can post a scientific study that specifially cites pair bonding as the driving force behind the female sex drive, and almost every woman here who has responded simply denies it. What does that tell you? What does it mean when hard evidence is denied in place of emotional convictions? I don't think most women understand their own drives so they blame the husband.

 

If you are afraid to ask your spouse why he or she doesn't want sex anymore, then there likely were communication problems long before there were sexual problems.

 

Yeah yeah, that why the ex even lied when we went to marriage counseling.

 

As for men losing their drive, it does happen, but only about half as much as women, and more often than not some Viagra would probably fix things. See us men have a problem women don't. No matter how hard we try we have no control over johnny. If he don't want to work there is nothing a man can do.

[Robert Z]

You had me until this statement. Loss of sexual compatibility, especially unresolved and long term, is certainly a problem and a justifiable deal-breaker for many. But to describe the issue as women denying men misses the fact that both genders can be either the "perps" or the "victims"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I added the she [he] qualifiers earlier. It does work both ways but women lose their libido about, [i would say at least] twice as often as men do.

Loss of Libido in Men

 

This suggests that about 15% of men lose their drive, so women are more like 30%. The German study cited states that 80% of women lose their drive after 20 years and it generally starts as soon as the need for pair bonding is satisfied. So this strongly supports the old question: Is there really sex after marriage.

 

Every friend that I have right now, less one, gets no sex anymore. And these are men who have never cheated. They all look to me as their freaking rock star because I refused to tolerate it any longer. [This inicludes all of my relatives as well. Granted some are too old, but even the younger men have been cut off]

Edited October 30, 2012 by Robert Z

[Mme. Chaucer]

I understand where you are coming from in your OP, BUT - a person has to take responsibility for their OWN LIFE.

 

YOU are responsible for living in a sexless marriage and in misery for 15 years. You were the one who had the power to change YOUR life, all that time. You wife had her own choices to make, and I agree that she did your marriage wrong, but you had no control over what she would do.

 

I also can't believe that you did not contribute to the mess your marriage became. It takes two.

 

Your insistence that most women lose their sex drive and that you think you can "prove" it by citing a study is offensive to most of the women here who have a different personal experience.

 

When I was married to my first husband, we stopped having sex. I'm sure he would say that I'd lost my sex drive. What I'd really lost was my desire to have sex with HIM, for many reasons. I have plenty of sexual energy. More than my husband does. And me saying so in the face of the study you linked to is not being "emotional." It is the reality of my life.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if your wife is enjoying a wonderful sexual renaissance now that your unhappy marriage is finally put to rest, just as you are.

 

I agree with the poster who said that you appear to have no understanding of female sexuality. It is NOT necessarily biologically rooted, and if a man wants to have a happy, sexually fulfilled spouse, and benefit from that, he needs to realize this and keep the sex sparkly from a mental, or imaginative place. Did you ever think that denying a woman THIS is just as dishonorable as it may be when a wife denies her husband relief from his biologically driven sexual urges?

 

I mean, so what if "pair bonding" was inspiring at the beginning? We are flexible.

[BetheButterfly]

In the past I have argued that no woman who loves her husband would ever deny him sex. Of course I was blasted for this, my position was misrepresented and twisted beyond recognition, and I decided not to engage in an endless nuclear war of false claims. So instead, I thought I would try addressing the same issue from a different angle.

 

If a woman [or man] no longer has an interest in sex, she [or he] should tell their partner directly and offer the option for divorce on the spot. No self sacrifice, no forcing yourself to do something you don't want to do, just simple honesty and honor.

 

I realized that this is probably the most painful issue for me. My wife lied about her loss of desire for many years. And no doubt she did this because she didn't want me to leave. So I was manipulated and used. And it cost me at least 15 years of my life. Others here have argued that in such situations, the man is responsible to "maneuver" through the problem. But I think this is a red herring because the real problem is often just a biological loss of drive, which isn't a problem to be "maneuvered".

 

So if person with a loss of drive would feel like a sex slave to give affection to the person who committed to them for life, then as a simple matter of decency, be honest, admit that the sex is probably over forever, and offer a fair way out. Don't pretend that a sexless marriage was always supposed to be the deal. And don't take the other person to the cleaners financially for wanting a life. Simply admit that you can no longer honor your partner as a mate and move on.

 

I agree with you.

 

Also, I think it's ok to enter in a polygamous relationship in such a case, as long as everyone is an adult. I don't like polygamy, but I don't see the reason to enforce monogamy on everyone who wants to be married. Polygamy works for some people. A Muslim lady I have talked to is happy to "share her husband" with 3 other women. She enjoys the schedule/routine they have. Now, I personally wouldn't like that, but if the adults in question are fine with it, that is their business and I personally think shouldn't be illegal.

 

I didn't ask about if she loves sex or not.

 

Even though I understand why it would not be a popular idea in my culture, if I were ever to lose interest in sex with my husband yet still loved him and wanted to continue to have a marriage covenant with him minus the sex, I would consider him having another partner as well, one who wanted to have sex with him. Sex is an important part of our marriage commitment/covenant. However, I personally do not think this will happen. I am taking care of myself to make sure to keep my sexual libido.

 

If, however, he ever lost interest in sex with me, we would get a divorce. Period. Thankfully, I personally doubt that he would ever lose interest in sex with me but I also know he is not sexually attracted to obesity. I very much have to watch what I eat and work out; that is a part of our marriage covenant... for me to keep myself healthy and not to become obese. That is incredibly important to him and I understand that. I agreed to that condition in our covenant to each other.

 

About accidents and tragedies, I personally believe that I could sacrifice my sexual desires if he becomes an invalid. I think he could as well if I ever became an invalid. However, that's a situation neither of us want. As for losing interest in sex, neither of us would like to come to that point either.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

I understand where you are coming from in your OP, BUT - a person has to take responsibility for their OWN LIFE.

 

True

 

YOU are responsible for living in a sexless marriage and in misery for 15 years. You were the one who had the power to change YOUR life, all that time. You wife had her own choices to make, and I agree that she did your marriage wrong, but you had no control over what she would do.

True. I personally believe the OP should have divorced much sooner, before getting so bitter.

 

I also can't believe that you did not contribute to the mess your marriage became. It takes two.

Agreed. With my first marriage, it took both of us to mess up our marriage.

 

Your insistence that most women lose their sex drive and that you think you can "prove" it by citing a study is offensive to most of the women here who have a different personal experience.

That's good to know!!! I don't want to lose my sex drive!!!

 

When I was married to my first husband, we stopped having sex. I'm sure he would say that I'd lost my sex drive. What I'd really lost was my desire to have sex with HIM, for many reasons. I have plenty of sexual energy. More than my husband does. And me saying so in the face of the study you linked to is not being "emotional." It is the reality of my life.

So true. When I had emotionally separated myself from my first husband, I didn't want him touching me. That did not mean that I no longer had a sex drive; it meant I didn't want to have sex with him.

 

He, by the way, is happily married to another wonderful lady who is much more compatible with him. I hope and think that they consider each other to be perfect for each other! We have not talked since before they got married and I have no intention of ever contacting him again, and doubt he will ever contact me, and that's fine! I am glad he is happy and I am glad that I am happy too!

 

I am happily married to another wonderful man and we are perfect for each other, in my opinion! My ex and I were NOT perfect for each other, but that is because of our personalities and expectations and how we were raised. Some people are just not "meant" to be together.

[Tara247]

Robert Z, I think your wife should let you go if she isn't going to give you sex. However, I don't think you should expect her to give up her half of the marital assets in a divorce. That's not fair. You knew how she was sexually. The lack of sex didn't take 15 years to surface, so it's your fault for staying as long as you did if you couldn't accept a sexless marriage. You made your choice. Therefore, you don't deserve to take her half of the finances away from her in a divorce.

 

Walk away if you want, and it's understandable if you do, but you're only walking away with half.

[Got it]

For years and years I accepted that argument. In many or most cases, I no longer believe it. Women have unrealistic expectations, biology gets in the way, and then they blame hubby for their loss of drive.

 

It is interesting that I can post a scientific study that specifially cites pair bonding as the driving force behind the female sex drive, and almost every woman here who has responded simply denies it. What does that tell you? What does it mean when hard evidence is denied in place of emotional convictions? I don't think most women understand their own drives so they blame the husband.

 

 

 

Yeah yeah, that why the ex even lied when we went to marriage counseling.

 

As for men losing their drive, it does happen, but only about half as much as women, and more often than not some Viagra would probably fix things. See us men have a problem women don't. No matter how hard we try we have no control over johnny. If he don't want to work there is nothing a man can do.

 

Maybe pharmaceutical companies need to invest the same monies and resources into female arousal as men and then we can pop a little pill and be off to the races. But female sexuality is more complicated then male.

 

Don't think that women would prefer to be and stay more easily aroused like me? Don't you think women would prefer not to be at a disconnect with their partner on sex? Don't you think that if a woman loves a man she wants to help make him happy and wants to be turned on all the time?

 

Have you ever experienced periods on low/no sexual drive? It is this depressing period and no matter what you do it just isn't there. It sucks to realize that even self pleasuring won't cut it. And unfortunately it can be psychological reasons that are more nebulous.

 

Women have the exact same disconnect with "janie" that you have with johnny. We actually have it more often and for more reasons.

 

What women may not understand is the unbelievable need and priority sex is for some men (not all I can attest for that). How it wraps up so much of who they are. And this is something that men need to be very vocal on and continue to vocalize it.

 

No one is forcing you to accept less. Prioritize it, stand firm by it, and walk the talk if necessary. You do have to be your own best advocate.

[KraftDinner]

My ex-boyfriend lost interest in sex gradually over the decade we were together.

 

He never came right out and told me he had lost desire for me (and no, I didn't gain weight - the first question everyone here seems to ask).

 

But at some point along the way I should have ended it because I knew it wasn't going to change. The last 5 years, it was like twice a year. It was awful. But it truly was on me...I knew the situation and I stayed in it.

 

I don't understand OP's perspective, I really don't. I HATED being in a sexless relationship but I knew, I always knew, I had the option of ending it.

 

Somehow there's this big female plot to 'pair bond,' lose our sex drive and then take men to the cleaners?

 

Women are not the enemy. You chose to stay. End of story.

[climbergirl]

Lacking a medical reason for the loss of a sex drive, I don't think that usually boils down to one spouse no longer honoring the other. I think there are usually underlying problems -- resentment, falling out of love, etc. -- that cause the lack of drive.

 

I agree that the discussions should be frank -- if you have no desire to uncover or fix the underlying problems, cut the bait. I also think that people would do themselves a favor by making sure that they can have frank discussions about sex with someone before the relationship becomes long term. If you are afraid to ask your spouse why he or she doesn't want sex anymore, then there likely were communication problems long before there were sexual problems.

 

(In bold) I agree. In my former marriage, there was no lack of sex in the beginning. But after many years of built up resentment my sex drive for him eroded. We still had sex every 2 weeks (he expected it) and I obliged.

 

(In italics)My ex husband never asked-he certainly should have as I was very obviously not into it. Maybe they are afraid to hear the answer; they aren't desired anymore. It would be a difficult thing to hear, as well as to say to someone for whom you care.

 

After years of this I came to the conclusion that this wasn't fair to either of us. He deserved to be with someone who felt passionately about him, and I with someone I felt passionate about. Lack of sex was not the reason we divorced, but a manifestation of all our issues.

 

However, and even after I explained this to him, he thinks that sex was the reason---completely stuck on that. And very vengeful in the divorce.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Somehow there's this big female plot to 'pair bond,' lose our sex drive and then take men to the cleaners?

 

Women are not the enemy. You chose to stay. End of story.

 

I can't speak for all women (contrary to popular belief, we aren't all the same), but I imagine that most of us would prefer to have a happy and fulfilling sex and romantic life with our husbands than to just let that completely die.

 

It usually takes both parties to help that happen. Just because one or even maybe both married people have a "high sex drive," maintaining good intimate relations actually takes some conscious effort over the long haul for most of us, I believe.

 

An ongoing good sex life is probably unlikely for any couple where one of them is preoccupied with their "needs" and how the other one is responsible for meeting those. That does not leave much room for giving and receiving.

[xxoo]

The sex drive is directly related to the need for pair bonding. As soon as you get married or feel secure, for most women, the drive starts to drop.

 

I believe that there is something to this.

 

But that only tells a small part of the story of women's sex drive. Emotional closeness plays a huge role after the initial bonding phase has passed.

[xxoo]

There is every chance that my marriage was a joke BECAUSE I was such a good husband. She felt completely in control and no threat.

 

This makes no sense from my point of view. I've got a great husband. I want to keep him, and keep him happy (because he won't be a great husband if he isn't happy). When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. But when you've got something (a great husband), you've got something to lose.

 

I don't worry that my H will cheat. He isn't threatening me with cheating. But I've got something good, and I want to keep it good. So I stay on my toes, stay attractive, stay sexual. I could add that it actually contributes to my sexual attraction that he is such a "great catch" and other women would be happy to have him.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

Edited November 2, 2012 by xxoo