Wife submitting to husband...

[BetheButterfly]

As a married Christian lady, submitting to my husband is a Biblical teaching. Now, it is important (in my opinion) to note that Jesus himself did not say this. Rather, it is a teaching of both Peter (one of the 12 chosen apostles of Jesus) and Paul (a later apostle of Jesus).

 

Below are the verses for this teaching: (I boldened some.)

 

- of Paul in his letter to the church of Ephesus,

 

"21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

Ephesians 5 NIV - Follow God

 

 

 

- of Paul in his letter to the church of Colossae,

 

"18 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. 19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."

 

 

Colossians 3 NIV - Living as Those Made Alive in Christ - Bible Gateway

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- of Peter

 

 

 

"Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing."

 

 

1 Peter 3 NIV - Wives, in the same way submit - Bible Gateway

 

 

Submitting is hard to do, at least for me. However, it really helps when you have a wonderful and loving husband who loves you more than he loves himself!!!

 

 

Many people criticize this idea of a wife submitting to her husband because they think it means that women are inferior to men. However, this is not true. When people submit to authority figures, it does not mean that the authority figure is better or superior to those under the authority, but rather that those in authority are responsible to protect and help those under their authority. For example, if I was in a burning house and a firefighter told me to jump, if I submitted to his/her command and jumped to the net or whatever prepared to rescue me, that order is for my wellbeing. Submitting to an authority figure is therefore not bad when the authority figure is good and the order from the authority figure is good.

 

 

The reason I am fine with submitting to my husband's decisions is because I consider him to be the authority figure in our home. Now, this does not mean that I do not give my input or advice. I am very opinionated and my husband thankfully listens to my advice and most of the time, follows it. However, there have been times I've been wrong about things and am glad that my husband has made decisions that were not 100% following my advice. We both have different talents and gifts so that is awesome to help each other.

 

 

 

Husband are commanded by both Paul and Peter to love their wives and not be harsh with them. That is so important. I personally believe it is not good for a wife to submit to an unloving and harsh husband. I personally believe wives who are not loved and who experience harshness (which I could term as abuse) to divorce or separate and see if he will change and truly love her and not be "harsh" with her.

 

 

Sad to say, many women suffer because of trying their best to "submit" to a person that does not merit being submitted to... bad authority figures should not be submitted to, but rather removed from their authority. For example, if a schoolteacher (who is an authority figure) is doing bad things, he or she should be removed from teaching. If a police officer is doing bad things, he or she should be removed from that position of law-enforcement authority. It is very important for authority figures to be worthy of respect and worthy of people submitting to their decisions!!! This entails the authority figure ordering or giving good advice that is in the best interest of the people under the authority. The authority is not for oneself - to feel powerful or be served, but rather for the protection and blessing of others, to serve others.

 

 

 

So anyways, I was just thinking about this today. If you have any comments or questions, that would be interesting. Due to submitting to my husband, I have to go now. He has requested I not spend all my free time writing on loveshack. I understand why... because if I do, I don't get other things done! So, I am going to submit to that suggestion (it's not an order but advice) because I know it's good advice.

 

 

One more thought: if both people in the marriage were the authority figure, then it is really hard when both have disagreement. For businesses, the boss has the final say. That does NOT mean that the boss is superior as a person or a better human being no!!! It does mean though that the boss is the authority figure. If there are 2 bosses with the same level of authority, they tend to split when there are disagreements that are not reconciled. Marriage is a team. Many times, teams have a leader... like cheerleaders have a leader. The leader can most definitely listen to his or her team's advice, but is responsible for making the tough decisions unless he/she gives that decision to another.

 

 

 

Have to go now.

[M30USA]

I have stopped debating this issue. All I will say is, whatever a person chooses to believe, they should first ask themselves: Am I believing what makes sense to ME and/or SOCIETY or am I believing what the Word of God says?

[KathyM]

From my understanding of God's teachings as they were explained to me by a religious leader whom I have a lot of respect for, a man and woman are equal in a marriage, with Christ as the head of their marriage. They are supposed to use Christ's teachings in their decision making. And they are both to submit to Christ's teachings, and to each other. Both are to submit to each other. Both married partners have talents/expertise/skills/intelligence that bring strength to the marriage, and complement the skills/talents, etc. of the other. Sometimes, the husband will submit to the expertise/desires/judgement of the wife, and sometimes she will submit to his better judgment. I think both are supposed to serve and submit to the other. Both are to make decisions together, and take each other's feelings/concerns/wishes into account. It is only when there is a standoff and no decision or agreement can be made should the husband's "authority" rule.

[HisGraceisSufficient]

I fought this issue all my life but after recommitment to Christ, a submissive spirit comes from the Lord. When we are submissive to Him and His will, we more easily submit to authority figures.

 

One of the most important virtues to have is obedience and you clearly see this within Mary and Jesus Christ. When we are obedient, God does great things in and for us. Obedience is key in the Christian walk.

[M30USA]

If a husband does not submit to the authority of Christ, he is not submitting to God. If a wife does not submit to the authority of her husband, she is not submitting to God. If children do not submit to the authoritu of their parents, they are not submitting to God.

[Hawaii50]

As a non-religious person, My ONLY take is that it's mutual. There are going to be things the Wifey is right about, and hopefully I will have the sense to listen/follow.

[M30USA]

As a non-religious person, My ONLY take is that it's mutual. There are going to be things the Wifey is right about, and hopefully I will have the sense to listen/follow.

 

Understandable. Can't argue against that. But the Bible repeatedly says that God's ways are not man's ways.

[Hawaii50]

Understandable. Can't argue against that. But the Bible repeatedly says that God's ways are not man's ways.

 

OTHER books have written, I promise you.

[M30USA]

OTHER books have written, I promise you.

 

Just like everyone has an opinion but not everyone is right.

[Hawaii50]

Just like everyone has an opinion but not everyone is right.

 

I know, buddy, but let's not go there tonight.. I'm too lazy to type

[M30USA]

I know, buddy, but let's not go there tonight.. I'm too lazy to type

 

Word up...

[M30USA]

I think, deep down, we all know that it really works the other way around. A good wife is one who can make her husband think he's calling the shots.

 

By "think" you mean he's really not, lol.

[M30USA]

I've read exhaustively about the chapter in Genesis where, after the fall, God assigned the curses. He said to the woman, "Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." (Gen 3:16c)

 

A study of Hebrew shows that the preposition "for" is the same word as "against". The word itself has a connotation of conflict or contrariness. Even read the footnotes of numerous English trsnslations, such as ESV, and you'll see.

 

Additionally, the second part, "and he shall rule over you", is an extension clause of the same sentence. This shows that the clause is intended to contrast the prior main sentence where the woman's desire is for/against her husband and his authority; meaning that he shall have it and not her.

 

Lastly, this was all a result of the curse. Did God intend man and woman to be co-partners initially? YES! But after the woman was deceived, it changed. We now live under the curse. We still do. And to forget this (as millions of Christians do) is folly. God pronounced the man as the head so as to protect us from deception.

Edited October 30, 2012 by M30USA

[pie2]

Once upon a time, in a land far away, a beautiful, independent, self-assured princess happened upon a frog as she sat contemplating ecological issues on the shores of an unpolluted pond in a verdant meadow near her castle.

 

The frog hopped into the princess' lap and said, "Elegant Lady, I was once a handsome prince, until an evil witch cast a spell upon me. One kiss from you will turn me back into the young prince I am and then, my sweet, we can marry and setup housekeeping in your castle with my mother, where you can prepare my meals, clean my clothes, bear my children, and forever feel grateful and happy doing so."

 

That night, as the princess dined sumptuously on a repast of lightly sautéed frog legs seasoned in a white wine and onion cream sauce, she chuckled to herself, "I don't freaking think so."

 

 

lol J/K

[M30USA]

But the issue here, biblically, is not about who should wash whose clothes. The issue is that, biblically, women are the "weaker vessel" according to Paul and are more prone to deception from Satan. I think I've used the example of Hitler when he discussed how to take hold of a nation--he said you get the women first and everything follows after that. Sad, sick. But be aware that's how Satan has worked from the beginning in Genesis.

[pie2]

The issue is that, biblically, women are the "weaker vessel" according to Paul and are more prone to deception from Satan....God pronounced the man as the head so as to protect us from deception.

 

You talk as if men have been given a responsibility because they are less likely to be deceived. And yet, men are so often deceived by (a lustful attraction to) women, the very ones they are meant to protect. Ironic.

 

Of course, previous joking aside, I absolutely believe that the bible gives specific instructions (wives, submit your husbands; men, love your wives) because He knows that those are the very areas that often prove difficult for each respective gender, and yet are so crucial to a healthy relationship.

 

It seems that, if men made a list of priorities in a relationship, feeling respected by their wives would rank pretty high. And if women did the same, I imagine that feeling cherished and loved in a romantic way would rank high. I mean, I never hear about guys complaining that their wives never buy them flowers! I think each side has a crucial role to play in creating a healthy partnership.

[TheFinalWord]

I have stopped debating this issue. All I will say is, whatever a person chooses to believe, they should first ask themselves: Am I believing what makes sense to ME and/or SOCIETY or am I believing what the Word of God says?

 

This is one of the hardest teachings to accept, but it is very biblical. Yes, the wife is supposed to submit to her husband. That is a big responsibility for a husband to carry. God takes it very seriously and states that if a man mistreats His wife, His prayers will be hindered. Furthermore, the wife is the glory of her husband. If the man is leading correctly, it will be reflected in his wife and evident to all. It's not a popular teaching, but it is foundation for a godly marriage. I'm glad the woman I am dating agrees with this teaching. I learned a long time ago, not to try to "talk" a woman into this teaching. If her heart is receptive to God and she studies the bible, she won't need me to tell her as it is mentioned multiple times by the apostles.

 

That doesn't' mean the woman doesn't have any say so or can't have an opinion. In fact, a wife is one of the major ways the Lord will temper a man. Women naturally have many gifts that men do not. But in the spiritual realm, God has given man the authority. Even in the way the church is set up, the office positions are only held by men. So this doctrine of the man's spiritual authority touches many areas, even outside of marriage. Which is why it's critical a godly husband is a spiritual leader: involved in church, praying with and over his family, and studying the bible.

[Mme. Chaucer]

A study of Hebrew shows that the preposition "for" is the same word as "against". The word itself has a connotation of conflict or contrariness. Even read the footnotes of numerous English trsnslations, such as ESV, and you'll see.

 

 

I don't think you have much of a grasp of Hebrew.

[Mme. Chaucer]

When people submit to authority figures, it does not mean that the authority figure is better or superior to those under the authority, but rather that those in authority are responsible to protect and help those under their authority. For example, if I was in a burning house and a firefighter told me to jump, if I submitted to his/her command and jumped to the net or whatever prepared to rescue me, that order is for my wellbeing. Submitting to an authority figure is therefore not bad when the authority figure is good and the order from the authority figure is good.

 

But this presupposes that a wife must regard her husband as an authority figure, with authority over her.

 

Do you believe that in a Christian marriage, it is necessary to see marriage this way?

[Els]

As a non-religious person, My ONLY take is that it's mutual. There are going to be things the Wifey is right about, and hopefully I will have the sense to listen/follow.

 

Based on my previous years of Bible studies, I think that the most reasonable interpretation is that it is mutual - just in a different way.

 

Basically, the verse following it says, "And husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and lay down his life for her." Now, Christians believe that Christ loved the church so much that he gave his life for her, the supreme act of putting another above self. In that context, the husband is expected to take the lead, sure, but to make decisions based on the welfare of his wife and family above himself.

 

That is how this dynamic works in successful Christian marriages. It is not my personal belief, but we'll leave all of that aside for now. It does work for others. But not in the way M30USA and his ilk seem to believe.

[M30USA]

I don't think you have much of a grasp of Hebrew.

 

You're right. Unfortunately I took 6 years of Latin. But I did learn lots about grammar and sentence structure. Plus I've read up on Genesis 3 by Hebrew scholars.

 

Are you arguing against the fact that "for" is the same word as "against" in Hebrew? Simply open up your English Bible (such as ESV) and it's in the footnote.

[BetheButterfly]

As a non-religious person, My ONLY take is that it's mutual. There are going to be things the Wifey is right about, and hopefully I will have the sense to listen/follow.

 

That is a very good point, and also shows qualities of a good leader. A good leader does not go around demanding to be served or have his/her way all the time. A good leader takes into consideration advice and understands that he/she can be wrong, while others in his/her team can be right. A good leader listens to good advice and follows what is best for everybody in his team.

 

For people who are interested in what Christians believe and why:

 

Jesus makes it very clear that a good leader is a servant to those he/she leads (Matthew 20:20-28; John 13:1-17).

 

Jesus did not specifically teach wives submitting to their husbands or husbands loving their wives, though Jesus did teach submission to the Roman authority (Matthew 22:15-21) which is something many of his people, the Jewish people, did not naturally like. I understand; I would not like it if the USA were under the rule of a foreign power. So, even though Jesus did not teach specifically for wives to submit to their husbands, the idea of submitting to authority is indirectly taught. When Jesus talked about marriage, his main issue with it seems to be divorce. (Matthew 19:1-9, Matthew 5:31-32). In those days, Jewish men had the power to divorce their wives for any reason and some were not even trying to love their wives. Jesus reprimanded them and talked to them about how God made the man and the woman "one flesh."

 

Jesus emphasized love to his followers: to love God (Matthew 22:37-38), one's neighbor (Matthew 22:39), each other (John 13:34-35), and enemies (Matthew 5:44-48; Luke 6:27-36). So, even though he didn't teach specifically for husbands to love their wives, it is interesting that every follower of his is commanded to love everyone.

[OpenBook]

Are you arguing against the fact that "for" is the same word as "against" in Hebrew? Simply open up your English Bible (such as ESV) and it's in the footnote.

 

I've got the New International Version, and there's no footnote about this.

[BetheButterfly]

But this presupposes that a wife must regard her husband as an authority figure, with authority over her.

 

Do you believe that in a Christian marriage, it is necessary to see marriage this way?

 

That is a good question. I have been raised to see marriage in this way. In my parents' marriage, both of my parents were the authority figure for my sisters and me. They are a team. However, my Mom always taught us that Dad was the one who made the ultimate decisions. Even though Dad was the authority, Mom controlled many areas: the house, the finances, the driving in many cases, the activities we did. However, when she wasn't sure about something, she would say, "Ask your Dad." It was funny cause many times Dad would say, "Ask your Mom." and we'd tell him, "She told us to ask you." Lol So, that would mean a family meeting! Many times, family meetings were fun because it meant planning a "family outing.":bunny: (it was totally against the rules to ask one parent and then ask the other without telling them what the other one said... Dad got in trouble once by Mom for saying yes when Mom said no lol. My sisters and I got in trouble too... for neglecting to tell Dad that Mom had already negated our request.) Fun fun

 

When we would get in trouble, Mom was the one who mainly disciplined us, though Dad many times would give long lectures. (Dad likes to talk.) Dad however never used his authority to hurt anybody. Rather, Dad sees his authority as an important responsibility. His authority = protection and provision. For this reason, he works long hard hours to make sure his wife and his daughters have everything they needed. He also takes care of vehicles and whenever there is an emergency, I automatically thought of calling my Dad. To me, that is what the upmost authority figure is... the person who I call for help when I need it. Yes firefighters and EMT and emergency help are wonderful and important, but there's nothing like having the strong male figure who was there when you were born around and who loves you so much and who you trust to protect you when you are in need. That is what all Dads should be to their kids: the strong male figure who loves them and protects them from harm. That is what a husband should be to his wife: the strong male figure who loves her and protects her from harm. That is what male authority = love, protection, provision to family/country.

 

However, my Dad is not my closest authority figure anymore. My husband is now. My husband is the one who if I have an emergency, he is the first person I would call. He is the closest mere mortal to me who considers it his personal responsibility to protect me from all the dangers of this world to the best of his ability. Now, my Dad still is protective of me and my sisters. However, before he "gave me away" in marriage to my husband, he made sure my hubby understood that he was responsible for my welfare, both spiritually, mentally, and physically. That to me is the reason for authority. Authority is not to boss people around. Authority is to protect and provide. Authority = responsibility.

 

Now, I think one of the reasons why females are not specifically "given" the role of the authority figure in a relationship is because of the following reasons, though of course there are exceptions:

 

1. In many cases, the male is stronger physically than the female. For example, I cannot even knock my hubby down on the bed. When we wrestle, in less than 5 seconds I cannot move. He is incredibly strong and I like that!!! Now, if he were hurting me with his strength, I would HATE that. However, he makes sure not to hurt me. Because of his strength, he does have the ability to protect me in physical emergencies more than I can for him. Dragging him is a bit difficult for me even.

 

2. Both men and women are incredibly intelligent. However, sometimes (and in not all cases) men tend to be less moody. I am a very moody person, especially in a certain time every month. I try not to be, but it's funny how people who know and love me can tell when it's that time of the month just by my "attitude." My husband is much more steady in his control of his feelings than I am. Now, I am sure there are many women who are much more steady than I am and are not a roller coaster in emotions like me, but it really helps for my hubby to be the authority figure because he does not tend to change his mind based on how he feels like I do. For example, many times I don't feel like going to the gym. However, my hubby and I go to the gym at least twice a week. My hubby's authority helps with that, because he is much more disciplined than I am in many areas. Now again, there are many women who are very disciplined as well and there are many men who are not disciplined or are moody. I am working on not being as moody and in growing in self-discipline and anyone (male or female) who are struggling with these areas needs to grow in them too.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[M30USA]

I've got the New International Version, and there's no footnote about this.

 

The NIV is not generally recognized as a literal translation. It is more conceptual. The ESV and NASB are more grammatically literal. It's in the ESV footnotes. And any research of Genesis 3:16 will show this fact to be true.