Wife submitting to husband...

[Mme. Chaucer]

You're right. Unfortunately I took 6 years of Latin. But I did learn lots about grammar and sentence structure. Plus I've read up on Genesis 3 by Hebrew scholars.

 

Are you arguing against the fact that "for" is the same word as "against" in Hebrew? Simply open up your English Bible (such as ESV) and it's in the footnote.

 

I am saying that you are oversimplifying in order to "prove" your own beliefs. In Hebrew, as in English and every other language I'm aware of, there is a great breadth of translation and meanings to many, many words.

 

Because it's possible for you to find a common prepositional usage (in a Christian bible, no less) of the Hebrew "for" and "against" does not support your weird claims about the inherent evil of women that you are touting in this thread.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Regarding the "authority" of the husband / father in family life:

 

I agree that having a single person designated as the "head," and having the entire family aligned with this and "submitting" to the construct, will promote better familial harmony than when the authority is equally shared among the adults - the parental units - of the family.

 

I think that it's possible to arrange families this way successfully in many religious households, and not only Christian ones.

 

Many of us married people, however, don't see our spouses as "authority figures" over us, even in areas where it's agreed that one spouse has a better skill set than the other.

 

I can and do, happily, grant my husband authority over how and when the pastures should be mowed, and the tractor serviced, for example, without question. This doesn't mean that I am able to see him as an "authority figure" over ME, in any way. I don't believe that he "knows what is best" for me or for us. I don't think I do, either. I think we need to arrive at these conclusions as equal partners.

[M30USA]

Because it's possible for you to find a common prepositional usage (in a Christian bible, no less) of the Hebrew "for" and "against" does not support your weird claims about the inherent evil of women that you are touting in this thread.

 

If it helps you sleep more at night to THINK that I said "women are evil" so that you can disregard any critical thought of the Bibles ideas, then do what you gotta do.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If it helps you sleep more at night to THINK that I said "women are evil" so that you can disregard any critical thought of the Bibles ideas, then do what you gotta do.

 

Many biblical scholars are able to move past the idea of women as the purveyors of evil in the world. You aren't one of them:

 

The issue is that, biblically, women are the "weaker vessel" according to Paul and are more prone to deception from Satan.

 

I have engaged with you before about your stance on the innate character of women, as you believe it to be. "Critical thought" is not part of your deal on this subject.

 

If you are going to talk about Hebrew and Genesis, you probably need to figure out a much better segue into the Greek language, and Paul.

 

I don't think you are a "biblical scholar," either - basically you are a regular fundie. Who has profound "women issues" for reasons completely separate from your religious beliefs.

[GorillaTheater]

Many biblical scholars are able to move past the idea of women as the purveyors of evil in the world. You aren't one of them:

 

 

 

I have engaged with you before about your stance on the innate character of women, as you believe it to be. "Critical thought" is not part of your deal on this subject.

 

If you are going to talk about Hebrew and Genesis, you probably need to figure out a much better segue into the Greek language, and Paul.

 

I don't think you are a "biblical scholar," either - basically you are a regular fundie. Who has profound "women issues" for reasons completely separate from your religious beliefs.

 

It's true that Paul said what M30 claims he said. But Paul also wasn't too keen on guys with long hair or people from Crete.

 

But I think it's the same thing as with a secular D/s relationship: as long as both parties are on board with it, it's none of my business.

[M30USA]

This is one of the hardest teachings to accept, but it is very biblical. Yes, the wife is supposed to submit to her husband. That is a big responsibility for a husband to carry. God takes it very seriously and states that if a man mistreats His wife, His prayers will be hindered. Furthermore, the wife is the glory of her husband. If the man is leading correctly, it will be reflected in his wife and evident to all. It's not a popular teaching, but it is foundation for a godly marriage. I'm glad the woman I am dating agrees with this teaching. I learned a long time ago, not to try to "talk" a woman into this teaching. If her heart is receptive to God and she studies the bible, she won't need me to tell her as it is mentioned multiple times by the apostles.

 

That doesn't' mean the woman doesn't have any say so or can't have an opinion. In fact, a wife is one of the major ways the Lord will temper a man. Women naturally have many gifts that men do not. But in the spiritual realm, God has given man the authority. Even in the way the church is set up, the office positions are only held by men. So this doctrine of the man's spiritual authority touches many areas, even outside of marriage. Which is why it's critical a godly husband is a spiritual leader: involved in church, praying with and over his family, and studying the bible.

 

My ex wife's dad bends over backwards for his wife and is a human packmule for her, yet all I ever see is her throwing fits and being incessantly hard on him. So I disagree that all women will treat a husband well if he takes a loving lead. Women are accountable adults too.

[M30USA]

Many biblical scholars are able to move past the idea of women as the purveyors of evil in the world. You aren't one of them:

 

 

 

I have engaged with you before about your stance on the innate character of women, as you believe it to be. "Critical thought" is not part of your deal on this subject.

 

If you are going to talk about Hebrew and Genesis, you probably need to figure out a much better segue into the Greek language, and Paul.

 

I don't think you are a "biblical scholar," either - basically you are a regular fundie. Who has profound "women issues" for reasons completely separate from your religious beliefs.

 

Sorry, buddy. Still never said women are "evil" as you claim I did. All humans are evil, in different ways. Go pester and misquote someone else.

[BetheButterfly]

It's true that Paul said what M30 claims he said. But Paul also wasn't too keen on guys with long hair or people from Crete.

 

But I think it's the same thing as with a secular D/s relationship: as long as both parties are on board with it, it's none of my business.

 

Lol... I love long hair on guys so that is obviously something I differ with Paul about... and I don't understand that passage because Jewish priests were turbans, which are a head covering right? That's why I think that Paul was talking to a specific culture in that case.

[BetheButterfly]

Regarding the "authority" of the husband / father in family life:

 

I agree that having a single person designated as the "head," and having the entire family aligned with this and "submitting" to the construct, will promote better familial harmony than when the authority is equally shared among the adults - the parental units - of the family.

 

I think that it's possible to arrange families this way successfully in many religious households, and not only Christian ones.

 

Many of us married people, however, don't see our spouses as "authority figures" over us, even in areas where it's agreed that one spouse has a better skill set than the other.

 

I can and do, happily, grant my husband authority over how and when the pastures should be mowed, and the tractor serviced, for example, without question. This doesn't mean that I am able to see him as an "authority figure" over ME, in any way. I don't believe that he "knows what is best" for me or for us. I don't think I do, either. I think we need to arrive at these conclusions as equal partners.

 

Understood and I think that's a very excellent and balanced view. I like it and have learned from it and from other posts you write. Thanks!!!

 

However, for Christians of today, the Christian Scriptures about wives submitting to their husbands are "difficult" to understand. So, I was merely trying to explain them.

 

However, I do very much like your points and agree with them. Thankfully, my husband doesn't boss me around (a whole lot) but I do need to respect his wishes, speaking of which, I've been on loveshack far too long today. Oops. Chao

[xxoo]

However, there have been times I've been wrong about things and am glad that my husband has made decisions that were not 100% following my advice. We both have different talents and gifts so that is awesome to help each other.

 

What about the times that he is wrong, and he does not heed your advice? That's the part I never understand, because we do, indeed, have different talents and gifts, and in some situations it makes sense for someone else to be the authority.

[M30USA]

Once again, folks...it's either the Word of God or your own perception of what is right--based upon a few meager decades, tops. I can't tell you how many times public opinion has fluctuated back and forth in disagreement with Gods Word. As it says regarding a certain time in Israel: "...each man did what was right in his own eyes..."

[Hawaii50]

Once again, folks...it's either the Word of God or your own perception of what is right--based upon a few meager decades, tops.

 

When you use the bible as a reference/reason/balance of things.. are you left feeling that you actually won the conversation/debate??

 

I mean, like, is that feeling when you slam the trump card down or when you know you've made an infallible point?!

 

I'm seriously 100% seriously-curiously.

[M30USA]

When you use the bible as a reference/reason/balance of things.. are you left feeling that you actually won the conversation/debate??

 

I mean, like, is that feeling when you slam the trump card down or when you know you've made an infallible point?!

 

I'm seriously 100% seriously-curiously.

 

I have never told anyone what to do ever, or what to believe ever. My goal is to educate people about Gods Word and make sure it doesn't get misrepresented or compromised. Whatever a person does with the info is their choice.

[xxoo]

Once again, folks...it's either the Word of God or your own perception of what is right-

 

There is also the matter of human perception of the word of god, which is far from uniform.

[Hawaii50]

I have never told anyone what to do ever, or what to believe ever. My goal is to educate people about Gods Word and make sure it doesn't get misrepresented or compromised. Whatever a person does with the info is their choice.

 

Isn't the very term "God's Word" wrong... I mean, it was written by men, through stories about a man. MEN, Humans, which ARE extremely fallible, self serving, and naturally destructive?

 

Can you god speak to people today?! Because people claim he/she/it does, but usually... they get ignored, locked up, and labeled.

 

 

"Whatever a person does with the info is their choice"

 

I'll thank my ever-tattered Bill of Rights for that statement.

[Hawaii50]

There is also the matter of human perception of the word of god, which is far from uniform.

 

And yeah, I would be more apt, if it was in fact a uniform perception/belief.

[M30USA]

There is also the matter of human perception of the word of god, which is far from uniform.

 

Eh, the major parts of Scripture aren't interpretable to a degree where its meaning changes. For example, you can't "interpret" that Jesus was NOT the Son of God, or God in human flesh. You can think such things if you choose, but you must ignore literally hundreds of unequivocal verses by Paul if that's what you want.

[Hawaii50]

I have never told anyone what to do ever, or what to believe ever. My goal is to educate people about Gods Word and make sure it doesn't get misrepresented or compromised. Whatever a person does with the info is their choice.

 

Also, you didn't even come close to approaching my question at all as to how you feel when you play the "God-card." >>Capitalized for grammatical consistency.<<

[M30USA]

Isn't the very term "God's Word" wrong... I mean, it was written by men, through stories about a man. MEN, Humans, which ARE extremely fallible, self serving, and naturally destructive?

 

Can you god speak to people today?! Because people claim he/she/it does, but usually... they get ignored, locked up, and labeled.

 

 

 

 

I'll thank my ever-tattered Bill of Rights for that statement.

 

Do you want to know where the phrase "Word of God" came from?

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-3, 14 ESV)

 

The "Word of God" actually means Jesus.

[todreaminblue]

When you say submission, the automatic word association is domination.....this has been in practice for a while.........i don't feel submitting to someone is allowing yourself to be dominated....you are simply submitting.Domination to me hints of cruelty and total disregard for another having or holding an opinion...if i thought marriage was about this ...i wouldnt hold it close to my heart as being a union of souls under god....god is not about domination.......God is about respect and free will...

 

 

if it is a womans will to submit to her husband then let no man tear that apart ,no societal rule should come into play,it is her marriage and her free choice to follows gods ways........it is her will not societies rule of what is kosher.....domination is when people ridicule and bluster and look down upon a woman who looks her husband's way on issues, which is honestly simply a god given right to do and choose what she wants or needs to do...that's domination by manipulation when you ridicule or try to change anothers mind set.....disregarding what one person chooses to do, giving them no voice, or free will to believe in what is just and true.......submission is not being dominated..its being in agreement i feel....a union of souls who work adn live together with simple words and truth to guide them.....deb

[BetheButterfly]

What about the times that he is wrong, and he does not heed your advice? That's the part I never understand, because we do, indeed, have different talents and gifts, and in some situations it makes sense for someone else to be the authority.

 

 

Well, I am obviously not respecting my husband's wishes today sigh.

 

Anyways, that's a great question. We have only been married for a year so as of yet, we have had no great mishap concerning him not listening to my advice. My advise is not bossy though (except for not speeding and not getting too close to the rear ends of other vehicles lol.) His is a little more bossy, like us both going to the gym and eating healthy and me not spending so much time here. I do think he is right but obviously submitting isn't my forte.

 

But yes, that's a very good question and I think that it is true that in many cases, the wives are correct in their advise yet the husbands don't listen. That's not good.

 

And yeah, I agree that many times,someone else should be the authority. Also, it's vital that husbands love their wives. Love does not include abuse. If a husband is abusing his wife in any way, I personally believe they should separate or divorce. Abuse is NEVER acceptable. If a wife is abusing her husband in any way, I believe the husband should separate or divorce. Abuse is not loving or respecting at all.

[BetheButterfly]

My husband does slow down, by the way, when I advise it. He also gives me a "look" like "Who's driving, you or me?" LOL That look always makes me laugh. Ok! I really have to go now.

[Hawaii50]

My husband does slow down, by the way, when I advise it. He also gives me a "look" like "Who's driving, you or me?" LOL That look always makes me laugh. Ok! I really have to go now.

 

what's the age difference between you and your hubby.. from the avatar it seems.. substantial?

[M30USA]

The why on earth do you refer to this when you're quoting Paul or the Old Testament?

 

I was just pointing out that the primary definition of the "Word" in the Bible is Jesus Christ. Additionally, the Bible tells us that all Scripture is "inspired" or God-breathed, meaning it's written by humans via inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who is also God (and even referred to by Jesus as "He").

[M30USA]

The Bible is not self-referential. There wasn't even a Bible when any of the books included in it were written. Your claim is temporally incoherent.

 

The Holy Spirit is self-referential. It's the ONLY thing we can possess which is self-referential. It doesn't need any witness or testimony because it comes directly from God (and is God).