1 month in the path to reconciliation

[tojaz]

She keeps texting asking me what is going to happen? Its hard cause shes 12 but i still want to shelter her. I told her i dont know but hopefully dad and mom can cool down to learn to talk like adults again. What else can i say?

 

Thats plenty, She doesn't need to see it happen, but shes old enough to understand. Just be straight with her when she asks and keep it simple.

[trippi1432]

She keeps texting asking me what is going to happen? Its hard cause shes 12 but i still want to shelter her. I told her i dont know but hopefully dad and mom can cool down to learn to talk like adults again. What else can i say?

 

You are doing the right thing there Hun. I can tell you from an aspect of a child who was "sheltered" too much, that has it's own repercussions understanding conflict resolution. Isolated incidents happen, but they do not mean a cycle of abuse.

 

I also like what Ober presented....that's very much similar to a "healing separation" which I think was suggested a while back.

[Oberfeldwebel]

That may be true Allie, but he had the option and he may change his mind after a couple of weeks of separation. If he doesn't then you know what actions you have to take from there. As for your daughter, I recommend honesty, but she doesn't need the gritty deals from either side. I'm sure you would have understood if he had not wanted to reconcile a few months ago. It is troubling why he wanted to then, but has since regressed. I will not tell you to stay or go, that is strictly your decision to make. Also I don't profess that by reading some posts that I have the ability to grasp the complexity of your relationship.

 

Still it appears that you want to move forward and he is content with the status quo. You can do that for a period, but that is not life. Also I never recommend that people sit around and wait for somebody else to decide what someone else is going to do with you. I recommend the separation to help you both gain a little objectivity and to help things settle a bit for your daughter. Either way I think you need to come up with a plan, be honest with him about it and then move forward.

[tojaz]

I like what Ober is saying, but I don't think its a good idea to propose anything. Hubby is going to see any proposal or structured plan as more pressure and we all know how he is going to react to that.... hes run from it each and every time. Something is going to have to change in him before anything is going to happen.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Yeah true tojaz its ALL on him now! Coming home, working on marriage, divorce whatever its all his move.

 

Is it better that i dont make any contact at all with him? I still want my marriage but now my Needs are different and he Must met them for me to work with him. I still think hes gone for good but in case im wrong i need a plan

[tojaz]

I think NC is best right now, if for no other reason then that he can't accuse you of pressuring him. If he initiates a talk, then you at least have that to lean on and you will know he is somewhat receptive to what you have to say.

 

There are lots of threads on NC here, would be worth doing a search. Theres lots of good advice for getting through it.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

Edit: I meant what I wrote. But obviously - this is hitting a tender nerve for me. Please take over Tojaz and Trippi.

 

Ahem!!!! Yas, I worry that this may be hitting that nerve a little too hard and your letting that sensitivity effect your posts. I know you want to help, but sometimes the best help is to know when to take a step back when things get to strained.

 

Advice is just that, it's up to Allie what she chooses to do, and it's up to us to trust and respect her choices once we've said our piece constructively. When it stops being constructive, its time to take that step back. It happens to us all.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

First - on the healing separation...no, Allie should not act on breadcrumbs to propose it, it must be when and if hubby wants to reconcile. It could have been proposed back when hubby was unwilling to forgive and was suggested, but hindsight is just that. In this new situation, NC is meant for you to heal unless he gives you something actionable to go on. The ball is in his court on how he proceeds to play, but how you decide to play the game is on you. I think I posted that to you in a PM the other night when you asked me a question in PM.

 

On the other side, C (Yas), I do understand where you are coming from but no one can tell someone else how to love another person based on their own personal experience. People love for a various many reasons, they stand for many reasons too. Each of us have our own validated reasons for not waiting for someone else to decide our fate and those who realize our own value don't in an abusive situation. I still will not come to this thread saying that Allie's husband is being abusive. Stupid yes, but abusive no.

 

As a parent, I understand Allie wanting to protect her daughter. Frankly, I loved the banana split nights with my daughter when she was going through her own little heartbreaks....however each of us here project on LS our own feelings where we think it connects.

[BetrayedH]

Yeah true tojaz its ALL on him now! Coming home, working on marriage, divorce whatever its all his move.

 

Is it better that i dont make any contact at all with him? I still want my marriage but now my Needs are different and he Must met them for me to work with him. I still think hes gone for good but in case im wrong i need a plan

 

No contact other than discussions about your daughter, shared finances, or the divorce. This is what needs to be done until you see true remorse from him. When he comes home, tell him you want him to move out and to go live the single lifestyle that he so desperately wants. This is what you need to do if you're going to divorce and it's what you need to do if you're going to reconcile. You need to have boundaries about what is acceptable behavior and keep them. And THAT is a lesson your daughter needs to learn. As part of this, you also refuse to contribute to any kind of toxic environment in front of your daughter. Make a list of what is unacceptable behavior for you. Make a list of what behaviors are required for you. He doesn't get to come home until he agrees to all of them.

[Yasuandio]

No contact other than discussions about your daughter, shared finances, or the divorce. This is what needs to be done until you see true remorse from him. When he comes home, tell him you want him to move out and to go live the single lifestyle that he so desperately wants. This is what you need to do if you're going to divorce and it's what you need to do if you're going to reconcile. You need to have boundaries about what is acceptable behavior and keep them. And THAT is a lesson your daughter needs to learn. As part of this, you also refuse to contribute to any kind of toxic environment in front of your daughter. Make a list of what is unacceptable behavior for you. Make a list of what behaviors are required for you. He doesn't get to come home until he agrees to all of them.

 

Is it just me? Now comes this second "respected" outside poster's advice, sound reasonable and logical does'nt it? Am I really so off base?

[tojaz]

Is it just me? Now comes this second "respected" outside poster's advice, sound reasonable and logical does'nt it? Am I really so off base?

 

Its all in the delivery Yas.

[AllieKat]

As im doing NC not how do you process all the bad thoughts and worries that spouse has harmed self? I keep thinking hubby was clearly in a bad place and has been what if he.....?

 

I'd never really think of him as letting things bother him to the point of self harm but now with crazy behavior what isnt possible? This isnt me wanting to contact him as much as it is putting my own guilt at ease.

[Yasuandio]

Its all in the delivery Yas.

 

BetrayedH has outstanding delivery, and provides a very logical path, don't you think so?.

 

 

You are right, of course, Tojaz. My delivery sucks, and was most non-diplimatic recently. I must have found myself envious of the attention Ms. Allie has received, and wished I had the same support system. Please accept my apologies Allie (Tojaz, and Trippi) for my tactless interference. I promise to stay out of it.

[AllieKat]

Im so sick over this but im not contacting him. I had no idea i would feel like this. I thought him being here and no contributing to our recovery was bad but not having him here is stressing me more. Why am i regretting telling him to leave

[BetrayedH]

Im so sick over this but im not contacting him. I had no idea i would feel like this. I thought him being here and no contributing to our recovery was bad but not having him here is stressing me more. Why am i regretting telling him to leave

 

You are still afraid of being alone and your objective is still clearly to reconcile. Telling him to leave (and him actually doing it) strikes fear into you because you're afraid you have played your cards wrong and will now lose him.

 

Allie, he's a grown up. He's fine. Leave him alone. The longer he sleeps in a cold car in the Walmart parking lot, the better. He needs to seriously consider what life without his wife and daughter looks like.

 

What you need to be focused on is not when he will come home, but what you will require from him before you let him in the door. He wants to come home? Then the bull**** needs to stop. He will not respect you until you respect yourself. You spent 7 months trying to "nice him back." Good effort; it didn't work and it almost never does. You need to continue to do what is counter-intuitive. You want him back? Tell him to stay away and go be single man. He cannot come towards you if you keep chasing him.

[Yasuandio]

Im so sick over this but im not contacting him. I had no idea i would feel like this. I thought him being here and no contributing to our recovery was bad but not having him here is stressing me more. Why am i regretting telling him to leave

 

Simple. It is fear of the unknown propects.

 

With him there you at least KNOW of what is (unhappiness, non-fulfillment, hope - or false hope). With him gone - you have to create your own reality and hapiness, and nothing depends on him (which it should be whether he's there or not).

 

Happiness is within you to accomplish, has absolutely nothing at all to do with him, and it's a tough nut to crack.

 

A majority of LS poster's struggling with loss of a partner also may feel dependant on that partner for their ultimate happiness. Along the way, somehow these LS poster's who find themselves now single (including myself) have also lost their ability to find happiness within themselves - and it is possible that the grieving process is not only for the lost partner - but too, for the loss of your own personhood.

 

When you can get your personhood back (it takes concerted effort), that person you were before you became attached - or addicted, to your spouse, the sun may shine again, and you may better see the poor treatment you have been accecting (contempt as a reward for your givingness).

 

Turn it around and try your best to receive. Now that he is gone from primeses, you might try to allow yourself only to receive, it you happen to be in contact with him. Turning the tables so to speak. You have already turned the table, you might as well go all the way.

 

There is nothing wrong with him - he is a big boy. With the conduct he has been dishing out at home - he certainly must have been expecting to be put out sooner than later. It has come as no surprise to him.

 

Read back on your posts at how you were absolutely antagonized over and over, with even these "baby steps." I agreed with you, they were minor - as they seemed to be one step forward, and one step backward the very next day - not really progress. It was driving you "crazy." Remember?

 

So, do you want to live like that again, cause I think you are just going to blow up again, and the situation is bound to esculate into a police matter yet a THIRD time. How can that be productive?

 

I again, apologize for my poor deliver in the last posts. I have been depressed, and to, feel for you in your posts, and it affected me when I think of you looking for him in Walmart parting lots after his treatment of you and your daughter. I had no right to express my disdain in such a delivery. I am very sorry. I wanted to make sure I told you that again, specificically. Yas

[trippi1432]

Allie - I agree with most of what BetrayedH states on the above. I don't feel you spent all these months trying to "nice him back" though, you spent those months standing for your marriage and giving him time to get over his issue. He didn't come around so now he has more time to REALLY think about what has transpired, and hopefully, he will questions what his actions have been up to now.

 

I'm not going to give false hope that telling him to stay away and be a single man will get him back. Men can be stubborn by nature when their pride is wounded whether you tell them to leave or they leave on their own accord. They count on a woman being a nurturer and expect them to give in so they can continue their behavior....this is where you will need your self-respect to stand up for yourself and not be a doormat.

 

If he were unfaithful and this were the issue, I would say yes, tell him to go be a single man. In this case, I would tell him to stay away until he learns to forgive you and starts acting like the man you married and that means the whole package. If he cannot, then you have done everything you could.

 

I feel his biggest issue is that he has lost respect for you due to his previous experience with his last wife who did a very horrible thing to him. He's put you in that bucket with her which is unfair because it's not the same circumstance. This is HIS issue to resolve now Allie, not yours.

[AllieKat]

I think my hope is that this time helps and he will REALLY THINK about stuff instead of putting it off.

 

I still dont think hes cheating though i type that i cant seem to shake it. But i did that with my last ex too and he wasnt cheating. Its been my biggest fear in relationships. I kinda grew up with it. My mom ran around on my dad and he never got over it, he was always accusing from there on of doing it. I learned that. Thats why i never say stuff in front of dd!

 

I also dont think if he had someone hed need to hang out in the walmart parking lot hed be with her.

 

I feel like hell never be back which is indeed giving me fear. When we fought saturday and i told him to get out he said NO IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE!! So the more i told him to go the more he refused its only due to the police that he actually left. So the counterintuitive stuff can work but my husband is sooo stubborn and i think hell stay gone just to prove he doesnt need me

[tojaz]

BetrayedH has outstanding delivery, and provides a very logical path, don't you think so?.

 

 

You are right, of course, Tojaz. My delivery sucks, and was most non-diplimatic recently. I must have found myself envious of the attention Ms. Allie has received, and wished I had the same support system. Please accept my apologies Allie (Tojaz, and Trippi) for my tactless interference. I promise to stay out of it.

 

No apology necessary Yas, at least on my end. You know that support system is here for you as well. Check your PMs

 

Im so sick over this but im not contacting him. I had no idea i would feel like this. I thought him being here and no contributing to our recovery was bad but not having him here is stressing me more. Why am i regretting telling him to leave

Not much I can add to whats already been said Allie, I've said from the beginning that he would not change course until the prospect of actually being without you became real for him, thats whats happening while he's freezing his giblets off in that parking lot.

 

Its scary to have to think about not having him there where you feel like you have some influence over him, but you know that anything you have tried has not had much effect and I assure you this is. Set your mind at ease Allie, you told him to leave, but you are not keeping him out there, hes doing that all on his own.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Allie - I totally understand your fear above, but you will have to overcome that fear as it will end your relationship before even getting to the real issues. So go with what you DO KNOW rather than what your fear is making you feel.

 

If your husband wants to be stubborn, there is nothing that you can do, that is on his own accord. When things cool down, you tell him ONE time, and one time only, how you feel and what you want.

 

Go easy on yourself Allie on what was said in the heat of the moment from the other day. If he wants to prove he doesn't need you and wants to be stubborn, that's on him. Is that the man you would even want back? That's the type of man who does come back and puts it all on you for you to jump through hoops for him. This is where you really need to be strong and not settle for less than what you deserve.

 

A real man who loves a woman doesn't let her go based on his pride and ego. Just as you have owned up to your mistakes, he will have to take a hard look at himself and own up to his portion as well. That's when you do listen, but make sure you listen well for double-speak or blaming.

[AllieKat]

No apology necessary Yas, at least on my end. You know that support system is here for you as well. Check your PMs

 

 

Not much I can add to whats already been said Allie, I've said from the beginning that he would not change course until the prospect of actually being without you became real for him, thats whats happening while he's freezing his giblets off in that parking lot.

 

Its scary to have to think about not having him there where you feel like you have some influence over him, but you know that anything you have tried has not had much effect and I assure you this is. Set your mind at ease Allie, you told him to leave, but you are not keeping him out there, hes doing that all on his own.

 

TOJAZ

 

Thats it exactly i feel like with him here i have some influence or control. I know what hes up to here. With him out and about i havent got a clue and i can only hope its nothing bad.

[trippi1432]

Thats it exactly i feel like with him here i have some influence or control. I know what hes up to here. With him out and about i havent got a clue and i can only hope its nothing bad.

 

Allie - This is understandable, but what should have influence and control is not your presence, it's his memories of what you mean to him, his love for you and dd, the great and even not so great moments of the relationship because it is about all the good and the bad.

 

Think back on the past years of your marriage, if none of that had any influence and control over what he has been doing for years (which was being a good husband), do you think the two of you would have even made it this far?

 

What he chooses to do now is entirely on him and will be the struggle he is in. If he chooses poorly, it is on him not you.

[AllieKat]

Allie - This is understandable, but what should have influence and control is not your presence, it's his memories of what you mean to him, his love for you and dd, the great and even not so great moments of the relationship because it is about all the good and the bad. even though he said he doesnt care about me??

 

Think back on the past years of your marriage, if none of that had any influence and control over what he has been doing for years (which was being a good husband), do you think the two of you would have even made it this far?

 

What he chooses to do now is entirely on him and will be the struggle he is in. If he chooses poorly, it is on him not you.

 

I know we both said stuff we didnt mean but im not sure whats real with him anymore and whats not. He lied to the cops and in all the years weve been together weve never fought so hard against each other and said so many mean things. Im ashamed of my actions as well as he SHOULD be.

[tojaz]

Thats it exactly i feel like with him here i have some influence or control. I know what hes up to here. With him out and about i havent got a clue and i can only hope its nothing bad.

 

Well heres the fun part Allie. You have much more influence over him just by your absence.

 

When he's there your looking for ways to influence him, and hes looking for things to defend against, things to protect himself from. Reasons to be angry.

 

As time passes without you around trying to influence him, he has nothing to act on either, so whats left? Cold hard facts. His mind shifts from defending his position because he has nothing to defend against. With time he has to look at how he wound up where he is. He can quit group, he can refuse counseling, and he can stonewall you all he wants, but he can't hide from himself. He's now run out of distractions, first it was helping his buddy, then it was football, then hunting the gossipers down. All the while holding back your attempts. Him being out leaves him with no choice but to face what he's been trying so hard to avoid, and exactly what you need him to face.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Oh Tojaz i hope your right! Its taken so long to get to this point and im counting on that love is enough to make him come back to his senses and work on this with me.

 

Everyday i read how ppl work through infidelity and i think why cant hubby and i work through our issues???