tojaz Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I guess i blame myself for all that because i picked the fight. I probably shouldnt of called the cops. But in that moment i felt like it was right. Im sure the status quo would be in place but i regret not trying to hold out a bit longer with him and trying what trippi had suggestedas far as showing him affection and etc. i never worked the nerve up to do that. I guess in desperation (and lets face it thats where i am today) id rather have him here than not at all. Sad but honest. I guess i feel likei shouldnt give up on him because i feel like hes depressed. I guess i just dont feel like anything i do will work so im running around like a maniac trying all the same stuff getting the same results So try something different.... leave him be. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 Im trying.....to leave him be. I mean i know i need to but its hard. Im sure he is like Yas said hacked off. He certainly was prior to the cops coming. I guess im letting all the little thoughts play out in my head. I mean so he was in the walmart parking lot at least two days. Sister says not anymore so where is he now???? Has he met someone now? I dont know im so irrational in my thought process. Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I know its hard Allie, the biggest thing to remember here is that you do not have the control over the situation that you think you do! What happens next is completely out of your control, be it with him next to you or in a cold parking lot. It makes no difference. There is no magic words that your going to say, no amount of affection thats going to be enough on its own. He has to be willing to receive before you can give, otherwise it is all wasted. You know he is willing when he comes home on his own and is willing to do what it takes to earn his way back in that door. If you beg him back it will not only be the cycle starting again, it will be worse, because you have demonstrated that there are no lasting consequences for his actions. He will know that you will allow anything, forgive anything, will live through anything. Thats not a life you want. TOJAZ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Im trying.....to leave him be. I mean i know i need to but its hard. Im sure he is like Yas said hacked off. He certainly was prior to the cops coming. I guess im letting all the little thoughts play out in my head. I mean so he was in the walmart parking lot at least two days. Sister says not anymore so where is he now???? Has he met someone now? I dont know im so irrational in my thought process. STOP reacting emotionally. Use your head to make decisions, not your heart. A return to what was going on before is NOT acceptable. Your daughter with a kitchen knife? Quit romanticizing about this man. The two of you have created an absolutely toxic environment for your DD and you should utterly refuse to accept him back into the home until you reach a serious agreement to work on the marriage. Your DD needs to see strength and resolve from you. Are you seriously going to continue to teach her that it is healthy to submit to a man this way at all costs? You should be spending your time filing for divorce and THEN we'll see if your H stops playing games. Go see an attorney. Many will offer a free consult but I would instead be focused on putting together a retainer. Want to have any hope of saving your marriage? This is what you need to do. Anything short of this is just permitting an unacceptable condition to continue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I know its hard Allie, the biggest thing to remember here is that you do not have the control over the situation that you think you do! What happens next is completely out of your control, be it with him next to you or in a cold parking lot. It makes no difference. There is no magic words that your going to say, no amount of affection thats going to be enough on its own. He has to be willing to receive before you can give, otherwise it is all wasted. You know he is willing when he comes home on his own and is willing to do what it takes to earn his way back in that door. If you beg him back it will not only be the cycle starting again, it will be worse, because you have demonstrated that there are no lasting consequences for his actions. He will know that you will allow anything, forgive anything, will live through anything. Thats not a life you want. TOJAZ The only thing I disagree with here is that you have no control over what happens next. I think he has had control quite long enough. Someone needs to step up and be the leader in this family. He's not doing it. You're falling apart. I guess the daughter will have to be in charge, with a kithen knife apparently. Otherwise, you need to read the quoted post above time and time again until it sinks in. You're enabling this toxic situation to continue and I'm starting to see you as a volunteer rather than a victim. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Allie - please do listen here, begging him back, making nice to get him back....those are all the easy outs that will just get you back to square one or worse. The fact is, you don't even know what giving affection might have accomplished when he was there so stop regretting it now. It's a mute point and just something to beat yourself up over. Stop beating yourself up so you can find your resolve. Honestly, him not contacting you back should be showing you what you don't want back in your life. A stubborn man who holds grudges. A loving, caring and healthy relationship doesn't look like this and it's not about either person having control of anyone else. Control is about how you handle yourself as you can only control you. I also agree with others here that your daughter needs to see you as a strong person even when you aren't feeling that strong. My own daughter has lost so much respect for me over the years because I lost some of that resolve and she is much older than your daughter. Your daughter is only 12, she is learning from you. She needs to know this has nothing to do with her and protected from the adult drama going on. I'm glad you did get her out of the house and understand you did what you needed to do, but your FOCUS needs to be on you and her, not what he is or isn't doing right now. What you are missing right now is how he used to be before all of this happened, you also missed it for 7 months and grieved it then. What is there to miss now, a man who slept on the couch, gave in bits and pieces and held a grudge even basically making you as bad as some other woman who meant little to him way back when. Don't you think you deserve better than that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I really miss the old guy he was great. I get this, but he isn't the man you once fell in love with and married. He isn't that guy..Anymore. Sorry but this has been going on long enough, he is messed up and deep down you know this. Sweetie, stop clutching at those straws, hoping he's going to come back home. He isn't. And, you don't want him home when he is being a shi.thead! That's not good for you or your daughter. Get a friend or family member to stay with you and your daughter. Start living life without him. Get counseling too, this will help you gain confidence so you can file for D. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 3, 2013 Author Share Posted January 3, 2013 What a day....just wanted to tell everyone husband came home and accepted my proposal of working on marriage. Ofcourse he wants a promise that im done accusing him of cheating and he wants me to lay off the pushing and let things progress naturally. He say he finds the i want this NOW attitude harsh. My wants were simple he agrees to a date night or two (if we can) every month. He clues me in on his goings and comings and we communicate everyday about "our progress" even if its just to say i need less of this and more of that. I told him i want a week off to regroup my mental self but he can come home if he agrees. We also agreed to do one to two things as a family a month, aside from dinner like bowling or etc. he is kinda reluctant about the date night because he thinks im going to force him to just do what i want. I suggested we try this till our lease is up and if he still doesnt feel like hes can move forward then we can part ways then and nobody is left financially drained. I only asked for him to work on this till july. I told him if at any time i go back on my word of fight picking or accusing him he is free to go. I dunno i didnt expect him to return so thats all coukd think of. I knew MC was out with him so i didnt put it on table. In the end he agreed and i just typed it up and we both signed it...kinda dumb i guess but he seemed to like that part he said if im willing to drop the accusing and fight starting that hed agree to everything. I dunno we shall see but as soon as he agreed he got right to helping dd with homework. Ok putting armor on for protection now... Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 ... cautiously optimistic. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Oh and he agreed to see dr for his depression! Its a start! Im hopeful but not to much so. I need to work on me so i can cope if this failsso i dont fall into the sadness again. He is going to dr tomorrow and my counselor is back from leave so im back to counseling Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I see you have been doing some homework on the agreements...... Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 ... cautiously optimistic. I agree with this but would say I am more cautious than optimistic. I want to see change from him rather than him just getting you to document that you'll stop being a crazy bitch (or however he phrases it). He's got plenty to learn himself and he needs to stop throwing stones since he lives in a glass house. Please continue to focus on what YOU need from this relationship. I really like the idea of documenting them and citing specific agreements. I'm not sure what "picking fights" means. I would get more specific. You should expect to disagree (disagreeing doesn't mean you caused the fight) but you need to agree on how you will handle disagreements. I think a good starting point would be something like no yelling, no swearing, and no disagreements in front of your daughter (take the conversation private). As for things like accusations about his cheating, if he wants you to drop it altogether, he should then agree to be transparent and understand that married people don't hide things like passwords from each other. Perhaps you both agree to full transparency. He is obviously concerned about honesty from you. Make an agreement on that as well. You should both get your dealbreakers on the table and learn how to compromise in good faith without all of the accusatory crap. Work from this point forward. Good luck, Allie. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I see you have been doing some homework on the agreements...... I did!!! I probably should of done more but i had no idea hed come home so quick Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I agree with this but would say I am more cautious than optimistic. I want to see change from him rather than him just getting you to document that you'll stop being a crazy bitch (or however he phrases it). He's got plenty to learn himself and he needs to stop throwing stones since he lives in a glass house. Please continue to focus on what YOU need from this relationship. I really like the idea of documenting them and citing specific agreements. I'm not sure what "picking fights" means. I would get more specific. You should expect to disagree (disagreeing doesn't mean you caused the fight) but you need to agree on how you will handle disagreements. I think a good starting point would be something like no yelling, no swearing, and no disagreements in front of your daughter (take the conversation private). As for things like accusations about his cheating, if he wants you to drop it altogether, he should then agree to be transparent and understand that married people don't hide things like passwords from each other. Perhaps you both agree to full transparency. He is obviously concerned about honesty from you. Make an agreement on that as well. You should both get your dealbreakers on the table and learn how to compromise in good faith without all of the accusatory crap. Work from this point forward. Good luck, Allie. The picking fights is how i will wake up in am right before he goes to work like i did last fri and start on him. I had a bad dream he cheated so i came out mad at him. I know thats bad but im going to get a grip on it. His big thing is honesty and trust. He says its hard to trust me when i wont trust him. Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The picking fights is how i will wake up in am right before he goes to work like i did last fri and start on him. I had a bad dream he cheated so i came out mad at him. I know thats bad but im going to get a grip on it. His big thing is honesty and trust. He says its hard to trust me when i wont trust him. Well, certainly stop doing irrational stuff like waking him up to fight over a bad dream. But when it comes to privacy in a marriage, I'm sorry but there is none except perhaps in the bathroom. A spouse with nothing to hide, hides nothing. He cannot do as he has been doing and think he should be blindly trusted. You don't hide your communications from your spouse and expect blind trust. And his statement about not trusting you because you don't trust him sounds VERY sketchy. Sounds like a bull**** change in subject to me. I suggest that you come to some agreements on both of you being completely transparent with your whereabouts and communications as a routine practice to safeguard the marriage. Based on how secretive he has acted for the last 7 months, he should not expect blind trust but can ask that you 'trust but verify.' At the same time, you agree not to confront him with baseless allegations. Every time you investigate and find nothing, you both win. If the untrue allegations are his real problem, he should go for this. If he won't be transparent, I think you have a big problem on your hands. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Allie - I do like something that BetrayedH suggested, add to your agreement on how the two of you will handle disagreements. This seems to be an issue in your marriage and perhaps why things escalate. The two of you could discuss what works and what doesn't work. It can include the agreement to discuss disagreements privately when DD isn't around or in a private place and it can also include things that your husband needs from you and you need from him. Things like a cooling off period before discussing a disagreement so that emotions are not flaring or requesting that each hears the other out fully before speaking to acknowledge what the person talking is really saying. I know some of that seems elementary, but it's also hard to trust someone who is talking at you and not to you or just doesn't seem to be really listening to what you are trying to say. Couldn't hurt...... Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) BetrayedH - How do you feel her hubby hasn't been transparent? Both Allie and her husband haven't really been hiding anything. Allie has an inner fear that he is going to leave her because of her threatening divorce over picking a fight seven months ago and then telling a lie a few weeks later. This entire thread has nothing to do with infidelity so to hold his feet to the fire as a cheater would only cause more issues in their relationship in my opinion. The fear of infidelity due to insecurity is the basis of the baseless allegations so far. To treat him like a cheater would just give him more validation to cheat. Edited January 4, 2013 by trippi1432 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well, certainly stop doing irrational stuff like waking him up to fight over a bad dream. But when it comes to privacy in a marriage, I'm sorry but there is none except perhaps in the bathroom. A spouse with nothing to hide, hides nothing. He cannot do as he has been doing and think he should be blindly trusted. You don't hide your communications from your spouse and expect blind trust. And his statement about not trusting you because you don't trust him sounds VERY sketchy. Sounds like a bull**** change in subject to me. I suggest that you come to some agreements on both of you being completely transparent with your whereabouts and communications as a routine practice to safeguard the marriage. Based on how secretive he has acted for the last 7 months, he should not expect blind trust but can ask that you 'trust but verify.' At the same time, you agree not to confront him with baseless allegations. Every time you investigate and find nothing, you both win. If the untrue allegations are his real problem, he should go for this. If he won't be transparent, I think you have a big problem on your hands. We did talk about that. Since i know his password that shouldnt be an issue however it needs to stay that way. He on the otherhand doesnt seem interested in my passwords but i wrote them down anyway. He thinks people who constantly accuse have guilty conscience and thats why they do that... Not true im just insecure esp now. He told me if i question his working ot just come by work if im still not sure come in call his job. He said if that helps and keeps me from accusing him of cheating when hes doing ot thats fine with him. I guess thats ok but i dont want to get him in trouble. He said he wouldnt get him inntrouble as long as i dont come inside yelling or screaming. He said other wives come in and say hi or drop off lunch and etc and its fine as long as they atent there for a long time pulling the guy away from work nobody says anything. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Allie - I do like something that BetrayedH suggested, add to your agreement on how the two of you will handle disagreements. This seems to be an issue in your marriage and perhaps why things escalate. The two of you could discuss what works and what doesn't work. It can include the agreement to discuss disagreements privately when DD isn't around or in a private place and it can also include things that your husband needs from you and you need from him. Things like a cooling off period before discussing a disagreement so that emotions are not flaring or requesting that each hears the other out fully before speaking to acknowledge what the person talking is really saying. I know some of that seems elementary, but it's also hard to trust someone who is talking at you and not to you or just doesn't seem to be really listening to what you are trying to say. Couldn't hurt...... Thats something i need to address with him. Because this is an issue for us! Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Good Allie - Talk more with your counselor about this agreement and see what she suggest too. Hugs! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 BetrayedH - How do you feel her hubby hasn't been transparent? Both Allie and her husband haven't really been hiding anything. Allie has an inner fear that he is going to leave her because of her threatening divorce over picking a fight seven months ago and then telling a lie a few weeks later. This entire thread has nothing to do with infidelity so to hold his feet to the fire as a cheater would only cause more issues in their relationship in my opinion. The fear of infidelity due to insecurity is the basis of the baseless allegations so far. To treat him like a cheater would just give him more validation to cheat. I am coming to the party late so I may not have the full context of what Allie has been posting for the last 7 months. Allie originally requested my opinion (via PM) and when she did so she cited that after she lied, her H started sleeping in another room, changed his passwords to everything, barely spoke to her, and would come and go as he pleased. I saw this as him essentially divorcing her without actually doing so. He was treating her with contempt and as a roommate at best. What has bothered me the most was the change in passwords. Why do that? No one does that unless they have something to hide. That question still has not been answered to my satisfaction. Hopefully people can bare with my skepticism. I would love to hear why he changed his passwords. More recently, Allie seems convinced that she's had enough visibility to know that he hasn't been cheating and I would tend to think that the days in the Walmart parking lot would support that. Then again, if he has an OW she could be married and unavailable to meet with him over the holidays and not all of his time was accounted for. In my case, it took putting a GPS on my wife's car to find out the truth and I have no regrets for it whatsoever. And if it turns out that Allie's husband is gaslighting her and making her feel crazy and paranoid about this when he is actually cheating, then he should be strung up. Something makes my gut scream that he is bribing her with coming home as long as it manipulates her into shutting up. I have a hard time even understanding this 7-month temper tantrum he's has over her lie about the bloodtest. I get that she shouldn't have lied. But for goodness sakes, the woman has endured multiple lost pregnancies and was afraid to go to the doctor and get more tragic news. This is hardly a capital crime and she certainly had no intent to harm him or any malice whatsoever. 7 months of hell over the fear of yet another lost pregnancy? Changing passwords? It doesn't make sense. And I've learned to trust my gut and no matter how much someone tells me, 2 + 2 does not equal 5. If he is still resistant to full transparency, that's a red flag to me. What I will acknowledge is that I am late to the party here and maybe I don't have all the facts or context. Allie seems to be satisfied that he's not cheating and there seems to be some acknowlegment on her part about paranoia. I'm also encouraged at her most recent post that they are coming to some agreement over transparency (and other things). Those are very positive steps when it comes to resolving their conflicts. If other posters see it this way also, I can certainly back-off. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi BetrayedH, just an update about some info that came later in these posts. Hubby was previously married in the military to a woman who claimed she was pregnant and wasn't. He divorced or annulled immediately. Once bitten, twice shy perhaps and no, that does not make his behavior right in this either. There are always more sides to every story...and maybe even some anxiety and paranoia on both sides. Believe me, I can understand your view of infidelity BetrayedH, mine is a no brained on that subject. But similar to Allie's hubby, I had a prior experience in a marriage that I would never have dreamed would have happened in my second. It was infidelity and I could make Allie's hubby look like a kitten compared to how I reacted. This marriage could be fixable with the right amount of work on both of their sides. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 The password thing did upset me still does!! He claims he wanted privacy to talk to his friends via email w/o me reading them and jumping his case. Which i did twice but i was mad and i didnt like what his buddy was saying. My hubby said he felt intially for the first 4 mths we were done and he didnt think i needed in his email. Which i can tell you since getting in the other day he has many many emails about me to his buddies, not all good stuff but it is what it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 I think hes still not sure we are going to make it but im hell bent to try and better myself, hopefully he will as well 1 Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 All you can do for right now, he has to work out his own issues too. Link to post Share on other sites
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