1 month in the path to reconciliation

[trippi1432]

Allie, it seems like we are headed for another downswing. What will you do differently?

 

TOJAZ

 

A "downswing"? Was that a hormonal question Tojaz? Did you read the other posts or were you skimming?

 

Oh trippi thats a great question way to keep me in check too?.

 

Well, though he hasnt quite expressed everything that i do prob thats been an issue heres what i think..

 

-being honest and open- check check

-Stops accusing- check

-Picking fights over everything- check

-Pushing to get reconcil- 1/2 check because though i dont convey this to him 24/7 its on my mind all the time and im sure hes aware

-not being so controlling/over bearing - 1/2 check only cause i did express to him my unhappiness withhis communication with president lady this month

- giving him some space- check

-being more independent- check

 

Not to bad

 

It is a good list too Allie...#4, Don't worry so much about it, it is probably on his mind too which is his excuse not to rehash it.

 

Point number five, on the controlling/overbearing...most men talk about women to their wives/girlfriends..if they refer to them as females they are harmless, if they refer to them intimately and as women you have a right to express an opinion just as your husband would have a right to express his opinion on you getting too close to a man. Boundaries are not controlling, this is something you need to be more versed at....just like the policy of joint agreement. If it is not something you agree with, it needs to be discussed and agreed upon.

 

The last two...give him more space, give him the universe if that is what he needs because the last thing on your list is being more independent, it should have been the first thing because that is ultimately what attracted him in the first place.

[trippi1432]

I didnt ask "whats next" but I did say "would you be interested in trying MC together", he said I dunno Im liking talking to strangers about this and i just want to work it out in my own head!

 

Its pointless bitching at him but Im disappointed and i feel like im losing the battle here.

 

@trippi the article made sense. I agree with the giver and taker stuff alot. I also was surprised to read one person can save a marriage. I gotta say though it did nothing for my patience issue im a lost cause like a rock trying to put clothes on... Hopelessly impatient

And the intimacy stage that was so us. Dh was so inlive he would NEVER put me in place or discuss things with me that maybe i wasnt doing right or that i may having been doing to upset him. Which did fo us more harm then good.

 

I got hopeful though with the one spouse can lead the other spouse back to the intimacy stage. Do u think this is really true? I mean the its takes two to argue is true and since i refuse to argue things have gotten better and i do try to be thoughtful. Funny thing about the article it said its typical therecipent of care that returns first to the stage of intimacy not the giver if care. So basically my hubby would be first. That I question

 

In a relationship, both are givers and takers Allie...it's when we give in to our taking side that the relationship becomes one-sided. That is what Dr. Harley is trying to convey.

 

BUT, I think you do see something here...that stage of intimacy can be one-sided as well. As you stated, it may have done more harm than good. When you are in a down-spiral...who is talking? Your taker, the two of you have been in intimacy stage for a very long time. You have spent a very long time on these threads talking about what he does but very quickly debunk it by what he does not do....you teeter between Intimacy and Conflict hun. It perpetuates your husband into Conflict and then Withdrawal. The TWO of you have been "playing" here for several months now and to be honest, it's no longer over what happened four months ago. It's about how things need to change for both of you to move forward.

 

Read further and let's discuss this further

the article it said its typical therecipent of care that returns first to the stage of intimacy not the giver if care. So basically my hubby would be first. That I question

Who has been the recipient of care the most in the past? When your Taker gets impatient..think about that.....

[tojaz]

A "downswing"? Was that a hormonal question Tojaz? Did you read the other posts or were you skimming?

 

Yes. because i have the ability to judge a persons hormonal state solely based on text on a screen....

 

No, the cycle Allie and her H have been in is starting to come around again, he is retreating from the situation and his actions are cooling towards her.

 

Her having learned so much this last go round I am asking what she will do differently this time.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Read further and let's discuss this further Who has been the recipient of care the most in the past? When your Taker gets impatient..think about that.....

 

In the past the recipient of care was mostly me! He gave me 100%. I gave too but he treated me like a queen. Now Im treated like a guy friend! And I'm not sure what to do because I will not be happy having a marriage this way.

 

@ tojaz i'd be lying if I told you I knew what to do here, I don't. If i dont push he wont pull. Since hes pulling away anyway im just not going to react to it. Im not going to get drug in that back and forth again. I think if hes going to be crappy im going to ignore him and go about my own thing. Last night when he unlocked the door and walked right infront of me that pissed me off i felt like bitching him out but i acted like it didnt bother me. I have no clue why hed be treating me like this. I love him dearly but I dont feel loved by him anymore. And if I approach him its just me complaining and not being patient and if I say nothing it just kills me inside. Its been 5 freaking mths I deserve love. Im a good woman and somedays I feel as if he likes this new life w/o me better. I mean honestly if he really loved me how could he just detatch like this and be cold to me?

Edited November 5, 2012 by AllieKat

[AllieKat]

@ anyone another thing that makes me wonder is DH pursued me for two years before I go out with him. I played hard to get i guess u could say. So now its like he doesnt want me but I want him. I feel likehed want me more if I wasnt so available. Thoughts?

[AllieKat]

Dh and i had a talk not sure what to think. It started by me asking him if he would be here for thanksgiving. He said yeah unless i wanted him to leave. So from there i asked if there was anything I could do to help him through this stressful time ( with us and work) he said no. I told him i wasnt pressuring him but wanted him to know this is hard for me too and he said he feels like i want or have a timeline of how long i can wait for things to be better.

 

He said he cant tell me they will be or even if they are when. He said he wishes he could just figure it out but he cant. He said he isnt set on working things out or on splitting hes just in the middle. And no matter what things wont be what they were. I agreed that the relationship wehad is over but i want to build a better one. He said what happened is always going to be in his head regardless. He said talking to counselors, friends strangers doesnt help and he feels likehe can figure it out on his own but hehasnt yet. He said if i feel i cant wait or ive had enough just come to him and tell him.

 

He said he feels my wheels are moving full speed and hes at a turtle speed. He did say its been one month of us really talking not just answering yes or nos but actually talking. I said are you counting and he said "yes, i am ... Its important" he said he knows im looking for answers and such but he just doesnt have any, hes doing the best he can and just trying to function. He said hes not depressed but hes in a funk and he thinks about this everyday. He said hes not trying to be jerky to me he just feels overwhelmed with everything right now and feels like shutting down. I said about usgoing on a date and he said he doesnt feel like doung anything with anyone because he just feels like a loner. Seems like he is a little depressed though.

 

It ended well though just talking no yelling or angry words just talking and listening.

Edited November 5, 2012 by AllieKat

[tojaz]

@ tojaz i'd be lying if I told you I knew what to do here, I don't. If i dont push he wont pull. Since hes pulling away anyway im just not going to react to it. Im not going to get drug in that back and forth again. I think if hes going to be crappy im going to ignore him and go about my own thing. Last night when he unlocked the door and walked right infront of me that pissed me off i felt like bitching him out but i acted like it didnt bother me. I have no clue why hed be treating me like this. I love him dearly but I dont feel loved by him anymore. And if I approach him its just me complaining and not being patient and if I say nothing it just kills me inside. Its been 5 freaking mths I deserve love. Im a good woman and somedays I feel as if he likes this new life w/o me better. I mean honestly if he really loved me how could he just detatch like this and be cold to me?

 

Allie, he hasn't actually experienced life without you though. Perspective! He has experienced a life where he can take you or leave you as he sees fit based on the situation at hand

 

@ anyone another thing that makes me wonder is DH pursued me for two years before I go out with him. I played hard to get i guess u could say. So now its like he doesnt want me but I want him. I feel likehed want me more if I wasnt so available. Thoughts?

 

My thought is that people have been saying that here for months in every which way. As long as he knows that door is going to be open regardless, he will always take the safe, easy, comfortable, route. Its instinct, it's human nature. They call them cavemen because they hid in caves from the scary world outside, but obviously they could not stay there indefinitely. Hunger, thirst, needs that they could not fulfill from within gave them the courage to venture out into the dangerous unknown.

 

Think about it Allie. He didn't quit counseling because he was sick of rehashing his story. He does that every day, he wakes up in the middle of it, he sees it walking around the house when he gets home from work, he sees it everywhere in the home the two of you built together. Hes scared! Scared of the unknown, not just the future of your marriage, but probably some things he'd have to learn about himself as well.

 

People haven't changed much over the years, just the scenery and the dangers they seek shelter from.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Thats the one thing I havent been good at: making him feel uncomfortable. Since we started talking everyday about everything I became more focused on that positive interaction and havent done anything to make him feel like he needs to make a decision. Ive been to afraid to for fear it wont be the decision I want. It really doesnt matter how many times anyone says it on here if Im not there I'm just not there. You all know how hard it is when your in the situation to actually do something big! ?

 

I was so hopeful now I'm unsure

[trippi1432]

Allie - Tojaz has a point and it has been said here many ways. To get to change, typically you do have to make it uncomfortable.

 

Now, having said that, I may say some things here that you won't want to hear. Taking in all the information you have given us have you noticed that the person who is most uncomfortable right now is you? Your husband has stated previously that he is happy right now with the status quo, he gets to be the taker for a while instead of the giver. As you said before, things were very skewed in your favor of being the recipient of his care. To expand on that further, perhaps your husband feels as if he were the one responsible for your happiness by being the giver in the relationship. That's a lot of responsibility Allie, and ultimately, my thoughts are this entire situation has "woken" him up. I agree, hiding in his cave is comfortable for him right now because he doesn't know how to change it either.

 

You had noted in the Harley article that "the recipient of care is the first to return to the stage of intimacy, not the giver", you asked if that shouldn't be your husband....who was the one receiving before. As you stated, it was you. Where you have been, and go back to sometimes, is wanting that intimacy back like it was before, you try to go there as the taker and he retreats as this is where his taker is now telling him that the balance was not skewed to his favor. It's where he got hurt.

 

I'm not trying to point a finger at you or say you are a this or that here Allie...but I don't really read much here that tells me where your giver is. Sometimes it's easy for us to forget what our giver does because it's just instinct. Perhaps a list of your giver would be good to remind you where there can be a safe balance between the two?

[AllieKat]

I dunno here I csnt make him feel uncomfortable and be the giver at the sametime.

 

I have been a giver in our relationship just as he was I just think he was more of a giver. For ex:

 

I cooked his fave meals, bought him surprises, wrote notes and put on his car, surprised him with lunch at work, rubbed his back when he didnt ask, planned romantic nights, planned date nights etc the list could go on and on. Since our fight I initally tried to do nice things still he asked me not to he said it mad him more upset, so I stopped. I recently within the last month started cooking dinners again for us. I have asked him about dates and even a little vacation and he said he didnt know. I have not attempted to touch him or buy him anything or write him any notes or do anything surprising cause Im not sure if that would upset him or not. Ive been trying to let him have space even though it kills me, ive done it because thats what he asked.

[trippi1432]

Thank you Allie - this is a side of you that you don't talk much about. I do find something interesting here...."I recently within the last month started cooking dinners again for us" and your other post "He did say its been one month of us really talking not just answering yes or nos but actually talking. I said are you counting and he said "yes, i am ... Its important".

 

Maybe I am trying to connect too many dots here, but both of those things sure do sound like a return to intimacy to me, not the intimacy you are banking on but I think that he is taking notice of some changes.

 

There are many ways to make a man feel uncomfortable, my thoughts are you hit the one made him shut down. I get what you are saying Allie, you love him for who he is just as much as he gave and you just want to be back to that place again. When you were both doing that, it was good, natural....no expectations, but in conflict/withdrawal, the walls go up.

[AllieKat]

Exactly Trippi!! I feel like im in a maze trying to find my way out and just when i think im on the right path a stupid wall is there and i have to back track and start again. I wish i could go through the walls. I wish Dh would come on here and post his story. He may not feel comfortable talking about it but maybe typing would be ok! Lol

[tojaz]

Allie your trying to do too much all at once. So your throwing everything you have out there hoping something sticks. There is no consistency of action.

 

To be blunt, I'm going to say that you both have had your eyes solely on getting to the finish line so your running through your maze bouncing your heads off the walls hoping you just fall into a resolution. Its never going to work like that.

 

Its going to take both of you rolling up your sleeves and really digging in, thats the only thing thats going to get you there.

 

DH is avoiding that like the plague, instead just running in circles hoping some lightning bolt strikes him and he awakens past the mess squeaky clean on the other side.

 

You Allie, your more then willing to get into it, and your eager, but your scared to death of taking the hard line necessary to get him to join you at that point.

 

your both searching desperately for a shortcut through the maze to avoid working your ways through it. Hint: there isn't one and continuing to hope and wish for that short cut will just grind you down until theres nothing left to salvage or one of you gives up and leaves the maze entirely.

 

I know your not there Allie, nobody is ever really "there" and prepared for something like this, taking the hard line, standing the firm stance is never going to feel comfortable or natural with someone you love.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

WARNING: About suggesting DH come here and post his side, in case it crosses your mind. There is just as much support here for ending a marriage as there is for saving it. People gravitate to the kind of advice that suits their needs and it is unlikely the same messages you hear will resonate the same with him, especially in a downswing.

 

There are tons of good hearted people on LS who genuinely try to help, but there are also those that are angry and bitter and enjoy spreading that message as well. Most new threads start half and half until the OP decides which direction it will go.

 

DH is looking for easy right now, and that doesn't work in your favor.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I will say this Allie, if he doesn't like rehashing what happened in the group he was in, then he does need to stop rehashing it in his mind...it is the only way to get to resolution. That is on him.

 

Coming here to LS, it's not the mediation you both need, you've seen what goes on here and been party to the threads...I can't say that it would help, what would is the two of you being able to say what you have said here and him saying what you have told us with a good counselor in the room.

 

For the record, I think Allie knows now that taking the hard line, the firm stance means she has to be just as willing to lose and that is what she is not ready for.

[AllieKat]

I am willing to do anything, hes just not. So the only hard line i see is to tell him Im done, and hope that wakes him up. That just seems harsh to me.

 

I do feel ive been consistent the last month. I just dont know what else to do if theres anything i can do short of telling him im done.

Edited November 7, 2012 by AllieKat

[aMguilts]

I am willing to do anything, hes just not. So the only hard line i see is to tell him Im done, and hope that wakes him up. That just seems harsh to me.

 

I do feel ive been consistent the last month. I just dont know what else to do if theres anything i can do short of telling him im done.

 

Hi alliecat

 

From what i read so far, you have done all you can.

Love`s not a 1 way street.

I wouldn`t even tell him your done.

 

aM

[AllieKat]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone thats helped me on here! Especially trippi for the pm's, tojaz and Yas. You all have given me lots to think about and great advice. I think whats best for me right now is to sign off for awhile and get myself together. I wish you all the best and am so grateful for all the time youve taken on helping me! Happy Holidays friends

 

 

Allie

[trippi1432]

{{Hugs Allie}} You know where to find us if you need to talk. Wishing you the best hun.

[tojaz]

Good luck Allie, I hope you will check in and let us know how you are when you feel up to it.

 

TOJAZ

[Yasuandio]

Good Luck, Allie. Yas

[AllieKat]

Well I was going to stay off here and regroup by here I am again. Hubby and I were doing ok. He had been kinder and more open and no fights. He even made bows for a competition cheer group i coached. I didnt ask him to he offered. Well in the last couple days hes been distant. Hes been talking to ppl whom i had told him gossiped and hes been trying to collabrate my story about the pres bitch telling ppl our business, but nobody will tell him anything they are all saying they know nothing! He said hes doing this for him not for me and if he can get one of them to say yes pres B said that hes confronting her and cutting ties. He did let it slip that "if ppl collabrate what ive been saying it will help him trust me"

 

 

I lost my temper a little bit with him because its so frustrating that ppl are lying. One instance i did save messages from one girl who told him tonight she knew nothing. So he knows she lied but even her messages didnt directly point the finger at this president B. basically hubby told me he was tiredto he didnt want to talk to me and i was pissing him off. I said oh well i should be able to come ask you questions about why your distant etc. he said yeah but not at 10:45pm when i get up at 4:30am. In my defense he didnt get home tonight till 9pm and i didnt want to jump on him as soon as he got in. But i probably shouldnt of said a peep it wasnt worth it. But i first asked for relations and he **** me down so that made me react and bring up his distancing.

 

I flat out told him if you dont love me or care anymore you should just move on. I said i felt his distancing actions and the not wanting me made it seem to me hes already made up his mind. Ugh oh well its truly how i feel. He said he feels im pressuring him again by me saying that stuff. Funny thing is tgat he brought up trusting me when talking to those ppl. I feel like thats his way of trying to find trust only its back firing because everyone is lying. He did say its frustrating to hear everyone say they know nothing. This really stinks for me. I told him its rough for me to have to rely on others to earn some trust back with him, his response was it shouldnt of ever had come to this then he stopped talking to me and went to bed... Hes pissed. Im afraid this is going to be a huge set back right before the holidays! Im angry that i even said a peep. Any suggestions on going forward?

[trippi1432]

Welcome to Betrayal 101....sorry, but it's the truth.. Look...you have to let go of the drama magnet Allie, you and him both!! Looking for answers just leads to more lies, the real answers typically present themselves when you aren't looking for them.

[AllieKat]

Yeah i agree but he is insistent that now that the football season is over he wanted to know if pres b really said that stuff or not. I told him to let it go but he wont so im just sitting back watching the train wreck unfold and him allowing it to make things worse between us because ppl are being honest.

[tojaz]

Allie, hes looking for someone to tell him what the right thing to do is. It seems like hes not willing to make a move unless theres a big giant sign with a neon arrow pointing the way.

 

What gossipers have said and what other people think have absolutely nothing to do with your marriage, nor should they carry any weight in how he feels about you.

 

Allie, from day one your H has focused himself at everything and anything except the issue at hand, if he ever does get to the bottom of GossipGate 2012 there will just be another bridge to cross or fire to put out. Like you compared this to a maze before.... well he likes it in the maze, so he keeps adding walls to prevent himself from finding the end.

 

TOJAZ