1 month in the path to reconciliation

[AllieKat]

I agree with that too. He says he wants to know if pres b was saying these things cause he needs to decide whether hes goung to cont friendship with her hubby or end it. But like i said he also said if he was to trust me again verifying what ive been telling him would help. I feel like im going to have to work up the nerve to leave him because hes not going to do anything and i cant keep this half marriage up

[Yasuandio]

Allie,

 

If you read this for the first time on a new thread, what would you think? It sort of reminds me of how my mom called at my friendgirl's house to "verify" if I was really spending the night there. I just hated that - BUT, I was a teenager - that proved I could not be trusted.

 

Jeez woman, you are an adult. He is seeking confirm the varastiy of your statements from gossipers. Doesn't that sound weird to you? That would be like my mom calling friendgirl to find out where I was staying. You get me?

 

People that gossip are not reliable sources for truth, they are reliable souces for gossip - and gossip is fliuid, always changing, never steady - feathers in the wind. When each feather goes from one mouth to the next it changes slightly, in detail, intensity, or reflects an aspect of the character of the gossiper - and/or the needs of the gossiper.

 

The gossiper gossips for a reason - they need feel something from sharing the gossip - power, attention, a sense of having control over manipulating a situation, an audience, whatever.

 

This is not how to gain trust back - that is, logically speaking, STUPID, in my opinion. Just another hoop to buy time, sorry to say. Yas

[AllieKat]

I know yas! I should clarify some of these ppl arent gissips but rather ppl that contacted either him or i to see if we were ok. Which was odd cause we hadnt told them our issues so we knew someone had. So hes been ask these ppl now where they heard stuff and they are either lying or playing dumb. Some probably jyst dont want involved but i firmly believe it was this lady and hubby just wants someone to confirm that so he can confront her. Like i said he said its for him and his frienship with this couple but he also said that little thing about trust. So i think hes using this to test me. I honestly dont care if he tests me or checks on me, i did break the trust we had and being open and honest is probably one of the only ways to prove myself but im losing now and whether its right or wrong it looks bad for me. I dont know how much stick hell put in this as a deteriminer of our future but its a bad position

[trippi1432]

The thing is Allie, he is off beating the weeds to find a snake. It's a safe distraction from the real issue for now. I can understand he wants to get to the truth, but honestly (for me at least), the truth typically comes when you aren't looking for it. Perhaps the source is the wife of his friend, if he really feels it is, he should just distance himself from them. The thing is, if you had no contribution, it's not your problem....it's on him and how he decides to handle it.

 

What I will say here is that you have to stop playing party to his fears and his need for validation. Just as much as he wants the truth, I think you want him to confirm it was the friend's wife. You have to let that go because A: the gossip is not your fault and B: you cannot control other people's poor behavior. Do not allow this to muddy the waters because you feel bad for what is going on in your marriage....only own what is yours and stay open and honest. You are not losing, you are taking on baggage that is not yours hun.

[AllieKat]

Your right I do want to confirm it was friends wife and he said that too the other night that he thinks i have a issue with her so im blaming her. Thats true but i didnt want him to do this because i knew ppl would lie. I would love to have him tell her off but its not my main concern i just want to rebuild trust with him. Whether i want him to do this hes doing it and i get made to look bad because of it. It stinks because im not sure hes made at me because everyone is not collabrating the story i told him i think hes mad cause of our fight. He wouldnt speak to me last night at all. I didnt try to talk to him either though because i knew by the time he got home he would be tired and he had a busy night and i figured he didnt need me bugging him. Normally he says hi when he comes in. Last night i was in bed with tv on and i was on phone he didnt even make eye contact so i knew he was still mad. I just hope we arent back to this where he barely speaks to me again.

[AllieKat]

Oh my what a pickle I get into most days! Hubby did talk to me today but rhus far only a little. I'm not going to push him though I know hes mad at me for picking a fight and I knew I should choose my battles carefully but we definately took a few steps back and literally in the last week we had taken some more forward.

 

I agree with the letting the gossips alone but I too am guiltly of asking ppl who said what? So im done now and hell just have to figure it out. I do need to tell him though that I confronted one yesterday and she totally changed her story and etc. i know i know no more BUT heres the kicker hubby was going to talk to ger and her husband soon and when i offered to message them he said no he wanted to catch them off guard, well after our fight and he said that if hes ever going to trust me i got panicky (old allie) and felt like i was fighting for my marriage if ppl didnt tell the truth and since this was the last couple he was going to ask and i knew they would backtrack i took it upon myself to go ask her. Im sure hes going to be pissed but i was smart enough to tape the whole conversation where she choked on her words and changed the story many many times as if to cover up for the B.

 

It doesnt matter i know but it kills me he thinks im lying and i wanted to prove myself to him cause hes big and scary she would never tell him anything. Needless to say i did the sneakiest thing ever by walking in to her job and taping our whole conversation. So this fight set us back but not as far as i thought but him hearing i went to talk to this lady first is going to upset him im sure. But hell its my life too and im not going to just let ppl call me a liar and be cool with it.

[aMguilts]

hi allie

 

What is it you want? To reconcile?

I know the pain you are feeling.Step back. re think the life you are leading now.

It shouldn`t be THIS hard should it?

Let go of whatever it is you think your marriage is now.

It`s hard i know. I`ve been there( well i`m still there now.)

 

hugs

aM

[trippi1432]

Interesting Allie, I just hope his interpretation of the evidence is the same as yours. When do you plan on sharing this with him as it seems, from your post, that you haven't yet.

 

I can tell you from my own experience, you can have evidence in hand, you can know your truth and still be the "bad guy". You own one thing here, your own actions that got you here months ago, that's it. The rest of this is a distraction and simply a "witch hunt". I understand how it feels to be misunderstood, to be accused and to be lied about. It doesn't take away the hurt that either of you feel. And honestly, both of you are operating in the mindset of being hurt and trying to validate yourselves. What is honorable is that you both learn from this and BOTH put each other first in the relationship instead of letting other people and insecurity come between you. The stronger the two of you are together is a testimony of how strong your marriage is and what it will endure.

[AllieKat]

I was planning on telling him tonight but hes clearly not in the mood, not that that matters because he was mad at me before for not telling him stuff but we are in a different place now and i dont feel like this is urgent like as with the pregnancy thing. I guess nobody knows i recorded the conversation so maybe if its going to cause more harm i could just delete it. I dunno he sure was glad i had the fb messages from that one lady cause she flat out lied to his face.

[trippi1432]

Just sit on it for now....a time and place for everything. The fact is, it is validation for you....he is the one that needs to learn to trust. Never be afraid of your truth. You did do one thing wrong and you learned. His turn.....

 

I'll add one more thing, never produce something as validation when the other person is angry....their anger will invalidate it.

[AllieKat]

Thanks Trippi! Im also dealing with a depressed hubby. He told me that the other week when i asked him his plans for thanksgiving. He said hes in a funk and doesnt want to do anything at all. Nothing brings him joy and hes not suicidle or wanting to hurt himself or anyone but hes just down. I think whatever hes fighting in his head its causing him depression. I do think his lack of actions with me on working on the marriage is why and we all know he could change that but hes allowing it to bring us both into misery. I just dont get why? Does he just not know how to deal with this?

 

 

Irregardless he wont get help so its most likely doomed. This depression coupled with talking to these ppl looking for answers has backtracked us! Is there anything i can do to help him or make things better for him? I was so depressed right after we fought for about 2 mths. I though was a little worse. I couldnt eat, i wanted to sleep all day, i missed work etc. i dont have much exp with depression but is it normal for it to come on at this point? I guess it effects everyone going through marriage issues differently

[AllieKat]

I want to add this too even though hes being distant with me he did go buy dd a boxspring and came home and set it up and removed the old bed and put the new one up and cleaned her room and fixed it up like she wanted. So hes not 100% mad since our fight, he did that cause i asked him if he could go get her a boxspring and he said yes.

[tojaz]

 

 

Irregardless he wont get help so its most likely doomed. This depression coupled with talking to these ppl looking for answers has backtracked us! Is there anything i can do to help him or make things better for him?

 

Allie, the best thing you can do for both of you is to keep both of your focus on the pressing situations at hand rather then following him along the ever lengthening maze.

 

Knowing who gossiped isn't going to change anything, what was said has been said. Your "lie" cannot be untold. His trust cannot be magically restored. Words cannot be unspoken once heard. There's no such thing as an undo button for people, emotions and relationships.

 

He needs to understand that and be gently reminded so he can quit looking for it.

 

>When he presents a new wall for his maze, ask him (gently and constructively) what he hopes that will accomplish.

>Set an example by being proactive and explaining why you are doing the things that you think will help your relationship

>Be brave and explain (again gently and constructively) when you think a situation is arising that will effect you both negatively.

>Use all of the above to head off troubles early before they allow the same toxic cycle to continue.

>Be supportive and appreciative when he does the things that ARE on the right track.

 

Look at it this way, if you coma across a person stabbed, wounded and bleeding.....what is your priority? Is it the wound? Is it the circumstances that brought them to be wounded? Is it who did the stabbing?

 

Right now hubby's looking for the guy that made the knife while your M is at risk of bleeding out. And since it wouldn't be an official Tojaz reply unless I carry the analogy way too far.... I'm guessing that's because hubby gets squeamish at the sight of blood.

 

TOJAZ

[aMguilts]

Allie, the best thing you can do for both of you is to keep both of your focus on the pressing situations at hand rather then following him along the ever lengthening maze.

 

Knowing who gossiped isn't going to change anything, what was said has been said. Your "lie" cannot be untold. His trust cannot be magically restored. Words cannot be unspoken once heard. There's no such thing as an undo button for people, emotions and relationships.

 

He needs to understand that and be gently reminded so he can quit looking for it.

 

>When he presents a new wall for his maze, ask him (gently and constructively) what he hopes that will accomplish.

>Set an example by being proactive and explaining why you are doing the things that you think will help your relationship

>Be brave and explain (again gently and constructively) when you think a situation is arising that will effect you both negatively.

>Use all of the above to head off troubles early before they allow the same toxic cycle to continue.

>Be supportive and appreciative when he does the things that ARE on the right track.

 

Look at it this way, if you coma across a person stabbed, wounded and bleeding.....what is your priority? Is it the wound? Is it the circumstances that brought them to be wounded? Is it who did the stabbing?

 

Right now hubby's looking for the guy that made the knife while your M is at risk of bleeding out. And since it wouldn't be an official Tojaz reply unless I carry the analogy way too far.... I'm guessing that's because hubby gets squeamish at the sight of blood.

 

TOJAZ

 

hi tojaz

 

in bold.

aM

[tojaz]

Allie, the best thing you can do for both of you is to keep both of your focus on the pressing situations at hand rather then following him along the ever lengthening maze.

 

Knowing who gossiped isn't going to change anything, what was said has been said. Your "lie" cannot be untold. His trust cannot be magically restored. Words cannot be unspoken once heard. There's no such thing as an undo button for people, emotions and relationships.

 

He needs to understand that and be gently reminded so he can quit looking for it.

 

>When he presents a new wall for his maze, ask him (gently and constructively) what he hopes that will accomplish.

>Set an example by being proactive and explaining why you are doing the things that you think will help your relationship

>Be brave and explain (again gently and constructively) when you think a situation is arising that will effect you both negatively.

>Use all of the above to head off troubles early before they allow the same toxic cycle to continue.

>Be supportive and appreciative when he does the things that ARE on the right track.

 

Look at it this way, if you coma across a person stabbed, wounded and bleeding.....what is your priority? Is it the wound? Is it the circumstances that brought them to be wounded? Is it who did the stabbing?

 

Right now hubby's looking for the guy that made the knife while your M is at risk of bleeding out. And since it wouldn't be an official Tojaz reply unless I carry the analogy way too far.... I'm guessing that's because hubby gets squeamish at the sight of blood.

 

TOJAZ

 

Hi aM

 

underlined.

 

TOJAZ

Edited November 18, 2012 by tojaz
Forgot sarcastic smiley.

[AllieKat]

This evening i asked hubby if we could chat, he said ok! I asked how he was he said ok. I said are you upset with me and he said hes pissed. I said well im sorry but i wanted to let you know i went to see "idiot 3" and recorded the convo. He looked surprised and was calm and said with the info i gave him alone he knew all he needed to. I asked if he wanted to hear the recording and he said no but told me to delete it cause i could get in trouble for doing that.

 

He then told me he wished i hadnt done that so he could of asked them and catch them off guard to see what they would of said. I nicely explained how i feel like i was fighting to prove i didnt lie and i knew shed lie. I also said im sorry but im sticking up for myself and not allowing myself to be called a liar and thats that. I told him as far as im concerned this is over and im not entertaining anymore gossipers and what they do or dont say. I told him to do what he feels is right but trusting gossipers over me is not right IMO. I also told him the truth will be revealed to him probably when he doesnt look for it.

 

I asked him a few off topic things then seeing he was tired from a long day and mentally from all the crap i left him alone and preceeded with my evening. Hopefully hell calm and think of what really matters. He did help me put groceries away tonight so i dont think im the lowest on the list right now.

[tojaz]

This evening i asked hubby if we could chat, he said ok! I asked how he was he said ok. I said are you upset with me and he said hes pissed. I said well im sorry but i wanted to let you know i went to see "idiot 3" and recorded the convo. He looked surprised and was calm and said with the info i gave him alone he knew all he needed to. I asked if he wanted to hear the recording and he said no but told me to delete it cause i could get in trouble for doing that.

 

He then told me he wished i hadnt done that so he could of asked them and catch them off guard to see what they would of said. I nicely explained how i feel like i was fighting to prove i didnt lie and i knew shed lie. I also said im sorry but im sticking up for myself and not allowing myself to be called a liar and thats that. I told him as far as im concerned this is over and im not entertaining anymore gossipers and what they do or dont say. I told him to do what he feels is right but trusting gossipers over me is not right IMO. I also told him the truth will be revealed to him probably when he doesnt look for it.

 

I asked him a few off topic things then seeing he was tired from a long day and mentally from all the crap i left him alone and preceeded with my evening. Hopefully hell calm and think of what really matters. He did help me put groceries away tonight so i dont think im the lowest on the list right now.

 

Well done

[Yasuandio]

This evening i asked hubby if we could chat, he said ok! I asked how he was he said ok. I said are you upset with me and he said hes pissed. I said well im sorry but i wanted to let you know i went to see "idiot 3" and recorded the convo. He looked surprised and was calm and said with the info i gave him alone he knew all he needed to. I asked if he wanted to hear the recording and he said no but told me to delete it cause i could get in trouble for doing that.

 

He then told me he wished i hadnt done that so he could of asked them and catch them off guard to see what they would of said. I nicely explained how i feel like i was fighting to prove i didnt lie and i knew shed lie. I also said im sorry but im sticking up for myself and not allowing myself to be called a liar and thats that. I told him as far as im concerned this is over and im not entertaining anymore gossipers and what they do or dont say. I told him to do what he feels is right but trusting gossipers over me is not right IMO. I also told him the truth will be revealed to him probably when he doesnt look for it.

 

I asked him a few off topic things then seeing he was tired from a long day and mentally from all the crap i left him alone and preceeded with my evening. Hopefully hell calm and think of what really matters. He did help me put groceries away tonight so i dont think im the lowest on the list right now.

 

 

I'll be devil's advocate. I don't think your hubby gives a hoot in he!! about gossipers and/or lies, trust, etc. My gut tells me he's killing time for some reason. HE's just gaming to shut you up, get you off his back. Otherwise, he would have been tremendously interested in the tape before you deleted it. The fact you've been reduced to defend yourself to this level is absurd. It's been months. Does not anyone suspect more to this story than a poor hubby trying in good faith to mend his fractured trust issues with his wife by soliciting information from gossipers?

 

I mean really. It's exactly the question Tojaz poses that makes this just absolutely rediculious to me: Hubby, what do you intend to accomplish? Yas

 

PS (Sorry, Allie - for negative viewpoint)

[AllieKat]

I honestly dont believe hes stalling for time here. I guess to explain my hubby this is how hes always been. Hes always been the type to confront ppl on their crap especially if it involves me or dd. he is w/o sounding mean very much obsessed with righting wrongs everywhere. Sometimes it has annoyed me but hes never been one to let things go EVER! Like i stated before his relationship with his mom hes still holding a grudge on that, 7 years later, Hes still mad at his bf for the last 5 1/2 mths for talking to me about our issues and because his bf told me things hubby said. I think it comes down to the one thing that got his mind off us was helping this guy with racecar. I think it gave him value and importance at a time he felt like an idiot that got played by his wife. Well, he knows i dont want him helping this guy anymore cause of the gossipy wife BUT i think hubby is trying to find proof she did say crap so he can use that as his reason not to help the guy instead if saying my wife doesnt want me to. Which would make him look hen pecked which is the last thing he wants now since i lied and hurt him. He isnt out to get the gossipers, he just wants to ask them if they heard it from this one particular person, the president lady, his buddies wife. He claims to not care who else said what he just wants to know if it was her because she told him she wouldnt talk about our business to anyone. (Her and i were friends before this and we did couples things even though i kinda was jealous of her. Im actually the one that told her about our issues, she and her hubby choose sides)

 

I guess im sticking up for him but this is just how i see it knowing him and his ways. His has a very deep need to feel needed and helpful not sure why but he thrives off it. Hes the guy that if we see ppl on the road that need help with car he has to stop or it will make him crazy. Trust me its driving me nuts i used to joke he keeps a cape and tights in back of car. Hes really a good guy but hes a grudge holder and always makes to much of everything. I knew that going in but I married him anyway.

Edited November 18, 2012 by AllieKat

[Yasuandio]

Well, maybe he's just being his regular old self and all of us are making too much fuss over it, especially me, negative Nellie! Yas

[AllieKat]

Yas your not negative nellie your just giving a different perspective and afterall we all in marriage and in marriage issues being on ls awhile you read all different stories and things and many are negative and who knows maybe im wrong too but my gut says hes just being hyper sensitive and getting to the root if the gossip i think makes him feel better. Maybe its the one thing he feels he can control.

 

Today he went to the LAST football game and he came home way early he said he wasnt sticking around. I think he confronted her but im not asking right now. Needless to say hes being more talkative and friendlier now. Im dying to know but lets face it it doesnt matter what happened!! I need to worry with what matters

[trippi1432]

I guess im sticking up for him but this is just how i see it knowing him and his ways. His has a very deep need to feel needed and helpful not sure why but he thrives off it. Hes the guy that if we see ppl on the road that need help with car he has to stop or it will make him crazy. Trust me its driving me nuts i used to joke he keeps a cape and tights in back of car. Hes really a good guy but hes a grudge holder and always makes to much of everything. I knew that going in but I married him anyway.

 

And that is why I gave you so much H**l in your first thread...because YOUR mind wasn't here, but your HEART was and it was in your posts but hidden under resentment too.

 

The thing is...as much as you want him to trust you, you have to trust in him too. And that does mean establishing communication directly with him where you are both open and honest with each other. You can't allow outside influences to come between you Allie...it becomes a wedge. I told you, I've been here, I also lost 12 friends in the aftermath of having evidence in hand. A "so-called" friend told my exH's best friend who wrote it that I had it and took it from me...destroyed it. People are devious and as much as you want to be known for being honest when others aren't, both of you only have each other to turn to.

 

He's protective, a good trait, but it's not an excuse to to put you on defensive. If you both act with integrity and each other's best interest in mind, this relationship could be saved. It really comes down to both of you.

[tojaz]

I honestly dont believe hes stalling for time here. I guess to explain my hubby this is how hes always been. Hes always been the type to confront ppl on their crap especially if it involves me or dd. he is w/o sounding mean very much obsessed with righting wrongs everywhere. Sometimes it has annoyed me but hes never been one to let things go EVER! Like i stated before his relationship with his mom hes still holding a grudge on that, 7 years later, Hes still mad at his bf for the last 5 1/2 mths for talking to me about our issues and because his bf told me things hubby said. I think it comes down to the one thing that got his mind off us was helping this guy with racecar. I think it gave him value and importance at a time he felt like an idiot that got played by his wife. Well, he knows i dont want him helping this guy anymore cause of the gossipy wife BUT i think hubby is trying to find proof she did say crap so he can use that as his reason not to help the guy instead if saying my wife doesnt want me to. Which would make him look hen pecked which is the last thing he wants now since i lied and hurt him. He isnt out to get the gossipers, he just wants to ask them if they heard it from this one particular person, the president lady, his buddies wife. He claims to not care who else said what he just wants to know if it was her because she told him she wouldnt talk about our business to anyone. (Her and i were friends before this and we did couples things even though i kinda was jealous of her. Im actually the one that told her about our issues, she and her hubby choose sides)

 

I don't think he's stalling for time either Allie, but he is stalling. Same question applies, if he finds out these people heard it from the prez, then what? What does that accomplish? It honestly sounds to me like he doesn't just hold grudges, hes actively seeking one. Why?

 

I've given my take, but I am curious what you think Allie.

 

TOJAZ

 

The thing is...as much as you want him to trust you, you have to trust in him too. And that does mean establishing communication directly with him where you are both open and honest with each other.

 

I like this, sent me to my pin board for one of a million scraps of paper and notes I keep there to find this..

 

 

From: Tao Te Ching, Chapter 17 Investing trust

"If you don't trust the people, you make them untrustworthy."

Most people adopt the basic approach of trusting others only after their trustworthiness has been proven. They distrust first, and give trust only when it has been earned."

What people tend to forget is that if you do not trust others unconditionally, those other people often pay you back by not behaving in a trustworthy manner. They do not really betray you, because you have been too stingy to give them anything to betray.

The compassionate approach is one of trust. You invest trust first not because you are naive, but because you know it is the most effective way to bring out the best in people. By trusting them, you make them trustworthy.

Real compassion goes even further than investing trust first. Even if a person has betrayed your trust, you will still invest even more trust in him.

You might object that it is naive. Maybe it is, but compassion is always willing to forgive and to try again.

[AllieKat]

Hubby confronted her yesterday he told me today. She denied denied denied. Today she sent me a text telling me how much she misses me and she woukd never gossip about me and she cares for me and hopes hubby and i work things out and to have a happy thanksgiving.

 

Then she sends hubby one saying she is sick of being accused of gossiping and maybe ppl will leave her the F alone soon and shes done helping ppl.

 

I honestly think Hubby is holding grudges cause its easier then sucking up his pride. But honestly this woman said things like i prob had an abortion not a misscarriage and the more she said the more i freaked out this summer on hubby. He should of dealt with it then but was to busy being mad at me. Hes being nicer and i thinks its finally over now and it can be let go.

[tojaz]

I honestly think Hubby is holding grudges cause its easier then sucking up his pride.

 

Or is it that holding a grudge and being angry is easier and more comfortable for him then dealing with the issues that brought you both here?

 

I had my living room painted recently. My sister gave me a hard time for hiring a professional when I usually do that sort of thing myself. When she called me on it I told her the truth, that with high ceilings and lots of wood trim, I'd rather have someone to yell at if it gets messed up rather then have to see it everyday and know that I messed it up.

 

I think your situation is similar Allie. Your hubby is in a situation that he doesn't feel comfortable in, so he is trying very hard to MAKE it a situation he is more comfortable in rather then venture into the unknown and risk failure.

 

Emotions, relationships, therapy. These are all uncomfortable situations by nature, thats why so many people shy away from dealing with them when things get messy. Hence my analogizing your H getting squeamish at the sight of "blood" and trying to busy himself elsewhere.

 

In the end, the gossiper is nothing. She and her words have no more power over the two of you and your relationship then you choose to give her. Right now the both of you are choosing to give her an awful lot. Enough that she has become a stumbling block in your marriage, enough that it has put your hubbys friendship with his buddy on the line. She hasn't earned that kind of power.

 

TOJAZ