What do you get out of your marriage...

[JamesM]

...but should you be even asking yourself that question?

 

This thread started because of a couple of question asked of me.

 

Here is the first comment.....

 

Your wife has put on significant weight and won't have sex with you and really shows no real interest in caring too much to give you 30 minutes a week of undivided attention and you continue to profess an undying love.

 

I don't know whether to praise or pity you......

 

...which led to the following questions....

 

This is very true.

 

JamesM, I hope you will not be offended by this question: What do YOU get out of this marriage? I am not speaking of the children that were born, I am wondering what benefits you obtain purely from the relationship with your wife.

 

So, I thought about these questions this weekend. What do I get out of it?

 

Then it hit me...should I really be asking myself that question when in reality, I made a commitment to put into the marriage? Isn't true love about giving and giving even if it is not being equally reciprocated?

 

And truthfully, the answer is no, I shouldn't be asking myself that question, and yes, it IS more about giving than receiving. Marriage is a commitment "for better or for worse." Too many divorces happen because this question is asked: "What is in it for me?" And when the answer is "Not enough at the moment," then the person becomes dissatisfied and looks elsewhere. Sadly, some look back and see that despite the momentary "Not enough," the reality is that it was more than enough.

 

Commitment means staying even if the immediate benefits seem minimal.

 

But to answer the question.....

 

What do I get out of it?

 

1. A family. No, not just children, but a family which is filled with love and laughter and fun. I am a father who enjoys both his wife and his children. We have fun times together and laugh and love and talk. This is no small thing. Leaving this would be very sad for me...and I believe them. And without her, the family would not be complete. I know that this is not just a relationship with her, but it is a direct result of that relationship, and she brought it about. She is the spark and excitement. I am the stability and discipline. Together we make a good team.

 

2. My best friend. Yes, she is. Despite my venting here, if I am given a choice of being with her or any other person, then I must and want to choose her first. It is because she is who I enjoy sharing my time with and my activities with. Outside of our issue of sex, we do share most everything. There is no one else I confide in...nor do I want to.

 

3. Comfort and relaxation. I used to tell my managers years ago that when an employee comes to work for us, we want them to feel at home...because home may not be fun or relaxing. Mine is. I enjoy going home. I don't feel that it will be uncomfortable. When I have the choice of going out or staying home, I prefer my home. And because she is there, it is (almost) always comfortable and relaxing.

 

4. A partner who makes my life easier. Selfishly, I can say that she cooks and cleans (except recently with her surgery), and does an excellent job at all. She cooks well enough so that our children prefer her cooking to going out or take in food by far. When mom cooks, then life is so much better for them...and me. She does things so that my life is easier. She has things ready, so that I don't have to stress. She is a great partner in life.

 

5. A coach and encourager. Yes, she has a motivation and intelligence that keeps me going and can give me direction. I trust no one else to really give me that. I am what I am in part because of who she is.

 

6. I am sure there are more that I cannot formulate into words right now.

 

Just because one thing is missing from our marriage...and granted a big thing, this in no way means that I am ready to walk out and look for someone else. We have a great time that is something that I want to keep.

 

Could it change in the future? Of course. Do I want it to? No.

 

So I ask anyone...what do you get out of your marriage? Would you leave when you do not get "enough?" Did you enter into this marriage for the benefits or because you love your spouse? Do you want him or her to leave if YOU do not provide enough benefits?

 

Is marriage about costs versus benefits, or is it a commitment to a person "for better or for worse?"

[pteromom]

Is marriage about costs versus benefits, or is it a commitment to a person "for better or for worse?"

 

Well, both, to a degree. "For better or for worse" assumes that both people are trying and working at making the marriage as good as it can be. If one person checks out or stops trying, it nullifies the contract IMO.

 

Life is very short, and I think we all have to make the most of our time here. In your case, it sounds like you get a lot out of your marriage. Having someone supportive who will always be by your side is no small thing. If you left and found someone who was a freak in bed, she may give you NONE of those other things you value. The question is what is more important to you, and will you feel you led a life you are satisfied with if things never change for you sexually?

 

As for me... what do I get out of MY marriage?

 

- My husband is very good at maintaining our house and cars, so I never have to worry about that stuff.

- When he is in a good mood, he's fun to be around.

- Financial security.

- He likes to do some of the same things I do (travel, watch the same shows, etc.) so I enjoy sharing those things with him.

 

But some of the other benefits you listed are definitely missing from my marriage.

 

My best friend. No... I have to edit myself highly or he takes things the wrong way and over-analyzes everything I say. Or uses it against me later in an argument.

 

Comfort and relaxation. No. His dramatic, unpredictable mood swings keep me "walking on eggshells". I never know what the next issue is gonna be, or when I am going to have to talk him down.

 

A partner who makes my life easier. No. He does no chores, no child care, and has an endless list of needs (which I try my best to meet). He also adds a lot of unnecessary drama to life.

 

A coach and encourager. No. His response to any issue I have is just to "be tough and deal with it". Meanwhile, I have to talk him down and build him up constantly. I am HIS coach and encourager, for sure. But I don't know that he would actually recognize that as a benefit of being married to me.

 

So why I am I still in my marriage? Fear of change is the big one. I have enough of my own money to make it financially. I am just scared of the unknown, especially when it comes to custody issues.

[Mr. Lucky]

Just because one thing is missing from our marriage...and granted a big thing, this in no way means that I am ready to walk out and look for someone else.

I think James that you look at it differently than many, myself included. To you, sex is an "ingredient" in a marraige. If I'm making a stew, I can still make a pretty good one even if one item is missing. Adding or emphasizing other ingredients still makes for a pretty satisfying meal.

 

To me, sex is a "necessity". Family, companionship and sex are like heat, light and food. The satisfaction of two of them doesn't mitigate the need for the third. And that's one of the things that makes marriage so hard is that, in all three areas, most people's expectations are pretty high. Just my POV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[frozensprouts]

What do I get out of marriage?

 

i get my bets friend, someone who laughs at all the same dorky stuff that I do, someone who actually understands me, someone who has been there for me through a whole lot of crud, someone to love now and someone to grow old with...

 

It's hard to put it into words, but if you are in a similar place yourself, you'll know what I mean. While i may not be the "fireworks and thunderbolts" type of thing that you so often see touted as "true love" ( been my experience that kind f love burns out pretty fast) as it's much stronger and lasting...it endures all things and is still there. Makes me smile every day.

[JamesM]

Well, both, to a degree. "For better or for worse" assumes that both people are trying and working at making the marriage as good as it can be. If one person checks out or stops trying, it nullifies the contract IMO.

 

Knowing your situation a bit from your threads, I can see where you are coming from. Not sure I totally agree...but I do somewhat. It does assume both are trying. It does assume both CAN keep on trying. And at some point, I do believe when one quits, it may nullify the contract. The question is...at what point?

 

If one no longer enjoys sex, is that nullifying the contract? If one no longer is treated like a partner, does that nullify the contract?

 

And the overall question is...if one person is not committed, then does this give the okay to the other to quit his/her commitment?

 

 

Life is very short, and I think we all have to make the most of our time here. In your case, it sounds like you get a lot out of your marriage. Having someone supportive who will always be by your side is no small thing. If you left and found someone who was a freak in bed, she may give you NONE of those other things you value. The question is what is more important to you, and will you feel you led a life you are satisfied with if things never change for you sexually?

 

Exactly what I have asked myself...and answered. I have decided that for the time, I can focus on what I like rather than what I don't like. I can look at the many benefits and look past the negative. As big as it is, for now, a "freak in bed" is not as good as what I have.

 

 

But some of the other benefits you listed are definitely missing from my marriage.

 

Sad to hear that they are, because I think they are more important to me. You mention how your husband wants sex yet you don't because of how he treats you. If he changed and became the loving husband and good friend that you need, would he then become sexual desirable to you again?

 

Comfort and relaxation. No. His dramatic, unpredictable mood swings keep me "walking on eggshells". I never know what the next issue is gonna be, or when I am going to have to talk him down.

 

This is precisely the thing I would use as an example to my managers. If an employee goes home to "walking on eggshells," isn't it nice if he/she could at least feel relaxed here?

 

This would be harder to take than the lack of sex that I have.

 

A coach and encourager. No. His response to any issue I have is just to "be tough and deal with it". Meanwhile, I have to talk him down and build him up constantly. I am HIS coach and encourager, for sure. But I don't know that he would actually recognize that as a benefit of being married to me.

 

This is another really big thing for me. And how a husband cannot recognize how it is important to his wife is beyond me. Just knowing that my wife will be on my side is an incredible benefit and a huge support in life...especially when I cannot count on others the same way.

 

As for my wife, I know for a fact (based on what she has told me and even recently) that she would list most of the above as benefits of her marriage to me. We can exclude the cooking thing...I cannot and don't like to! However, I know I help around the house by keeping the dishes washed and the kitchen cleaned. I do all of the laundry for our family of six. And no, I don't mind...it fits my morning schedule and wakes me up. However, her biggest benefit would be that I am her best friend.

 

So why I am I still in my marriage? Fear of change is the big one. I have enough of my own money to make it financially. I am just scared of the unknown, especially when it comes to custody issues.

 

Real and big fears. As you said, life IS short and at some point, a decision should be made. The question is...can this marriage every be beneficial to both people, or will it always be one-sided?

 

BTW, the only way to get over the fear of the unknown is to...make it known. As silly as that sounds, talking to someone and planning what you would do will alleviate the feeling of powerlessness about controlling your own future.

[pink_sugar]

I told my husband that it's important both people benefit from the marriage and he initially didn't understand what I meant. I told him it's important both partners get something out of the marriage and at the time, I felt like he was getting more out of it than I was.

[JamesM]

I think James that you look at it differently than many, myself included. To you, sex is an "ingredient" in a marraige. If I'm making a stew, I can still make a pretty good one even if one item is missing. Adding or emphasizing other ingredients still makes for a pretty satisfying meal.

 

 

Kinda how I like at it, but I think I look at it as more of an expression of love in a marriage. I do find it necessary and wish we had it, but I also know that there are other ways to express love in marriage. My wife does many of those despite her lack of desire (controlled or uncontrolled) for sex. This is why we still have a decent marriage IMO. But the lack of sex is why I do get frustrated periodically and overlook those other expressions of love.

 

NOTE: Remind me of this when I vent about my sexless marriage.

 

To me, sex is a "necessity".

 

I agree. But how does it rank when compared to the other "necessities?" That is the question.

 

Family, companionship and sex are like heat, light and food. The satisfaction of two of them doesn't mitigate the need for the third.

 

I am not sure that I would agree with the comparison, but if so, then I could also add that at certain times, not all "needs" are as important. Sometimes there is no need for light or heat, but you do need food. Other times, heat is more necessary. While the satisfaction of one cannot eliminate the need for the others, it can reduce its desire.

 

Besides, as was said, having a woman who is excellent in bed and is a nympho can be a turnoff, too. I have read of posters on here whose wife wanted too much sex. Then the concern is that if I don't give it to her, then someone else will. Or there are women who love to express their love via sex yet detest cooking and cleaning, etc. Or they may dislike spending time with their husband but want to go out on the town every night.

 

I do agree that all three are necessary. The question is for each person...are all three equally ranked or is one more important than the other?

 

And that's one of the things that makes marriage so hard is that, in all three areas, most people's expectations are pretty high. Just my POV...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Agree. And your POV is always appreciated.

[JamesM]

What do I get out of marriage?

 

i get my best friend, someone who laughs at all the same dorky stuff that I do, someone who actually understands me, someone who has been there for me through a whole lot of crud, someone to love now and someone to grow old with...

 

It's hard to put it into words, but if you are in a similar place yourself, you'll know what I mean. While i may not be the "fireworks and thunderbolts" type of thing that you so often see touted as "true love" ( been my experience that kind f love burns out pretty fast) as it's much stronger and lasting...it endures all things and is still there. Makes me smile every day.

 

And having this makes it worthwhile to fix a marriage that is broke. It makes it worthwhile to honor that commitment even when the other hasn't.

 

Some things can never be understand unless someone has been there and had to face the same things. And it is these intangibles that make a marriage work even when it appears that it will never work because of circumstances that seem to others unworkable.

 

You stated why I can stick it out in a less than desirable situation in less words. Sometimes the biggest problems become littler when we focus on the positives rather than the negatives.

[JamesM]

I told my husband that it's important both people benefit from the marriage and he initially didn't understand what I meant. I told him it's important both partners get something out of the marriage and at the time, I felt like he was getting more out of it than I was.

 

So did you tell him what benefits you need and which are important to you?

 

What would it take to reconnect with him again, or do you feel it is hopeless?

 

What benefits do you have?

[xxoo]

1. A family.

 

2. My best friend.

 

3. Comfort and relaxation.

 

4. A partner who makes my life easier.

 

5. A coach and encourager.

 

Great list!

 

I get all that, too. I feel that I'm a "relationship person", and so I appreciate those things a lot.

 

Sex is important, though. I know how much it helps to sexually connect even after just 3 days without--making us feel so much closer, giving us both so much more patience with one another. I feel like some of the above would suffer if our sexual connection suffered long-term, particularly #4. Without the stress relief and connection of sex, would we have the same energy and motivation to make each other's lives as easy as possible? I'm not sure...

[Mr. Lucky]

I am not sure that I would agree with the comparison, but if so, then I could also add that at certain times, not all "needs" are as important. Sometimes there is no need for light or heat, but you do need food. Other times, heat is more necessary. While the satisfaction of one cannot eliminate the need for the others, it can reduce its desire.

I understand but there's a difference between "certain" times and "all" the time. To keep in the same vein, my partner doesn't need at all times to light, heat and feed me. But neither will I allow her to freeze, starve or keep me in constant darkness. At least sexually, your W doesn't seem to just not consider your needs at certain times, she pretty much ignores them all the time. And given that, at least for me, family and companionship alone wouldn't be enough. I do understand that others may make a different calculation..

 

Mr. Lucky

[pteromom]

Knowing your situation a bit from your threads, I can see where you are coming from. Not sure I totally agree...but I do somewhat. It does assume both are trying. It does assume both CAN keep on trying. And at some point, I do believe when one quits, it may nullify the contract. The question is...at what point?

 

If one no longer enjoys sex, is that nullifying the contract? If one no longer is treated like a partner, does that nullify the contract?

 

And the overall question is...if one person is not committed, then does this give the okay to the other to quit his/her commitment?

 

I think it relies on both people still trying. Someone can't help if they no longer enjoy sex, but are they working on the issue? Are they understanding of their partner's needs? Are they open to finding out WHY they no longer enjoy it and seeing if it can be changed? If no, then I think the partner has a right to move on.

 

You mention how your husband wants sex yet you don't because of how he treats you. If he changed and became the loving husband and good friend that you need, would he then become sexual desirable to you again?

 

Absolutely. If he is in a good mood and is being supportive and kind, I DO get horny. But when he calls me a name or acts all moody and defensive, it kills off the libido and I find myself distancing from him.

 

The thing is - I GET that it is unfair to expect him to be a certain type of person. He is moody. He gets depressed easily. He is very insecure about himself. He over-analyzes stuff, which drives me crazy. But this is all HIM. It's who he is, whether I like it or not.

 

So it becomes a question of compatibility. It is more accurate to say we are incompatible in some fundamental ways than to blame HIM for my lack of libido. Because he can't help who he is. (To a point; he can help the name-calling and rude comments.)

 

BTW, the only way to get over the fear of the unknown is to...make it known. As silly as that sounds, talking to someone and planning what you would do will alleviate the feeling of powerlessness about controlling your own future.

 

I have seen an attorney. I have seen a therapist. I have looked at houses in our area. I LOGICALLY know what would likely happen if I filed. But not knowing for sure keeps me from doing it. It is only a matter of time, I believe. There's gonna be something that pushes me over the edge, and that will be it.

[Nyla]

True love is about reciprocity, giving and taking...interdependence.

 

If one person gives and the other just takes, that is not a real marriage in my opinion. An adult relationship includes lovemaking and if that is not present, then it is a glorified friendship. Who on earth gets married to have a platonic roommate? If my husband stopped making love to me and refused to work on the issues, I would leave. I did not get married to be celibate. Our wedding vows included being lovers to each other.

 

If one benefit of your marriage is a "partner who makes life easier", you are not truly in this marriage only to love and give. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

Sometimes it appears that you minimize the importance of sex in order to convince yourself to stay with your wife. I don't know if I am right, it just comes across that way. If sex was unimportant to you, you would not come on. Loveshack and vent about not having a physical relationship with her.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Nyla

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Geez you make excuse after excuse after excuse....... You claim you have everything with her, yet she won't give you the one thing you crave and the effort on her part would be minimal.....

 

You aren't asking for much.....

 

I am banging my head over and over into a wall trying to understand......

 

Heck tell her you're actively looking for a fwb, but want to share all other facets of "this wonderful" union.....

[Els]

Geez you make excuse after excuse after excuse....... You claim you have everything with her, yet she won't give you the one thing you crave and the effort on her part would be minimal.....

 

But James has stated over and over and over and over again that sex is not the ONE thing he craves - it is just one of many things that he would like out of a marriage, and he has also said that he is getting almost everything else that is important to him. I don't understand why some people continually impose their own personal viewpoints about sex on him. He clearly sees sex in a different light from you, or some of the others.

[giotto]

Absolutely nothing at the moment, since we are not talking about children, and I wouldn't put having a family as a benefit of marriage, because, to me, a family starts with children.

 

I've grown very disillusioned about the whole thing. I believe that you, James, feel the same, but you are in denial. Hence all these threads recently. You are trying to convince yourself that it's not that bad after all, when it is. Missing physical intimacy with your wife is a huge factor. I'm glad for you if you can survive without it, but for me it's very depressing.

 

 

He clearly sees sex in a different light from you, or some of the others.

 

He has to adjust his view of sex because he is not getting any. I'm doing the same. I've swept the whole thing under the carpet, because there is no solution. If you want to survive, you have to adapt. Simple as that.

[Saba]

I am not married but have stuck it out long term with my man for many of the reasons that have already been mentioned. There are so many benefits being in a committed relationship only one of which is sex. Relationships are dynamic and what is important now might not be in the future and things that are not important now may become more important in the future. Just like you may not see a solution at the moment giotto but you may in the future.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Saba
clarity

[giotto]

I am not married but have stuck it out long term with my man for many of the reasons that have already been mentioned. There are so many benefits being in a committed relationship only one of which is sex. Relationships are dynamic and what is important now might not be in the future and things that are not important now may become more important in the future. Just like you may not see a solution at the moment giotto but you may in the future.

 

There is no solution. My wife has told me in clear terms that things will never change. She is not prepared to change (go to therapy). I have a choice, and she's given me that choice. But she also knows that that choice (divorce) is not a choice for me (I'm not leaving my kids), so I'm stuck. Sure, sex might be just one ingredient, but when that ingredient is missing it becomes even more important. In all these years, I've grown distant and basically fallen out of love because with no sex there is no intimacy. We are not a couple. I don't even know all the reasons for this. Refusing to act to salvage our marriage has been a massive blow for me.

 

I'm quite surprised that James is not experiencing the same, because when you are not physically close it stops being a marriage. I really care for my wife, but we are brother and sister and I can only love her like that now. It's a shame, but I have done all in my powers to change it. I failed, because there's nothing to change. And I don't believe things will ever change for James either. I admire him if he is still able to draw positiveness from his relationship... he must be better than me.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

But James has stated over and over and over and over again that sex is not the ONE thing he craves - it is just one of many things that he would like out of a marriage, and he has also said that he is getting almost everything else that is important to him. I don't understand why some people continually impose their own personal viewpoints about sex on him. He clearly sees sex in a different light from you, or some of the others.

 

You have obviously not read the 6,600+ posts JamesM has made. Sex is something JamesM wants in his marriage desperately. He does not want a whole lot either. He claims his wife loves him and she is all these wonderful things, but won't do this one thing for him..... if all JamesM wants is 1X/wk (and I bet that would be heaven for him, I'm saying 30 minutes tops is enough to do the trick).

 

All these other things are wonderful (and heck JamesM may have a better marriage then me;)), but his wife's consistent refusal and lack of effort is very very sad.

 

JamesM's wife has removed a very important part of their marriage and she is non-plussed by it and JamesM comes here professing a deeper love for her and as Giotto says seems to be in denial.

[giotto]

and as Giotto says seems to be in denial.

 

I say this because I've been in denial for a long time too, until the stark reality hit me last July. It's sad to realise that your wife doesn't really give a sh*t about your happiness, especially after many years together. She might claim she does, but actions speak louder than words. I mean, it's been 3 weeks for us now... she claims she "has to decide" when to have sex... how long does it take to decide one evening that it would be nice to make your husband happy? Note that she's had a whole week off work...

[Els]

You have obviously not read the 6,600+ posts JamesM has made. Sex is something JamesM wants in his marriage desperately. He does not want a whole lot either. He claims his wife loves him and she is all these wonderful things, but won't do this one thing for him..... if all JamesM wants is 1X/wk (and I bet that would be heaven for him, I'm saying 30 minutes tops is enough to do the trick).

 

All these other things are wonderful (and heck JamesM may have a better marriage then me;)), but his wife's consistent refusal and lack of effort is very very sad.

 

JamesM's wife has removed a very important part of their marriage and she is non-plussed by it and JamesM comes here professing a deeper love for her and as Giotto says seems to be in denial.

 

We could speculate all we want, but in the end only James knows what he himself really needs (which is far more important than what he wants) out of his marriage, and IMO it's much more conducive to take what he says at face value, rather than assuming that we know more about him than he himself does.

 

I agree that it's incredibly sad that his wife has gone off the deep end with regards to sex. However, I think James gets way more flak than he deserves on this site (not necessarily from you, just a feeling I get when I read his threads), just for making the decision to remain in his marriage and to view his glass as half full. Anything and everything good that he mentions about his wife is immediately dismissed by several posters as 'denial'. Why? Surely it's possible for someone to be unhappy about the lack of one aspect of their marriage/relationship and yet be happy about other aspects.

 

I can't say for sure what I would do in his position, but I can say this: I have incredible respect for someone who actually treats his marriage like a marriage. Not 'til you tire of having sex with me', or 'til you gain weight', or 'til you stop providing everything that I want in a wife/husband', but til death do us part. Because, really, isn't that what marriage is? A lifelong commitment. Those are the vows. If you are going to leave because you're not getting everything you want out of it... why marry and utter those words? Why not be in a committed live-in LTR, a de facto relationship, or a civil union?

 

I think part of the reason for the dilution of the meaning of marriage is the fact that people are constantly being pressured to marry as an indication of 'commitment', and so people often marry before they are absolutely certain that they are willing and able to undertake the sort of lifelong commitment that marriage entails. There is a huge, wide spectrum between 'not committed at all' and 'married, ie bonded for life', and IMO far too many people rush into marriage when they really fall into this spectrum. But I digress.

[giotto]

yes, all very well, but I still wonder how he managed to 'keep the connection' alive without sex... it was impossible for me. And we do have sex a lot more frequently than they do... This is what I would like to know from James. Most marriages die without sex, because sex keeps the intimacy and the bond alive. I didn't get sex, and intimacy, so I got distant. My wife didn't get her emotional support and gave me even less sex. Vicious circle. How did James avoided this?

[JamesM]

If one person gives and the other just takes, that is not a real marriage in my opinion.

 

I agree, but sometimes one gives more than the other and in different ways. To say she never gives would be false. To say I never take would be false.

 

If my husband stopped making love to me and refused to work on the issues, I would leave. I did not get married to be celibate. Our wedding vows included being lovers to each other.

 

I did not get married to be celibate. She did not wish for a life of pain. It is a problem...no question about it.

 

BUT...wholeheartedly I can say that I love her too much to simply leave because of this problem. And while to you it may not be a part of it, the children really do appreciate two parents and especially their dad around.

 

To quote the marriage vow, which is very similar to ours....

I choose you to be my wife, to have and to hold from this day forward for better or for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish as long as we both shall live.

 

This isn't the worst that some have dealt with and I do love and cherish her.

 

Sometimes it appears that you minimize the importance of sex in order to convince yourself to stay with your wife.

 

I do, but out of fairness to me, didn't YOU ask me what I got out of my marriage? That is why I listed everything else. You did do me a favor, because it helped me to look at all of the things I do have.

 

Sex is important but it is not everything.

 

If sex was unimportant to you, you would not come on Loveshack and vent about not having a physical relationship with her.

 

Correct. LS has provided me with a place to vent and get feedback. Questions like yours has made me step back and look at my marriage. Threads on here have given me ideas on how to handle it for now.

 

But I have also learned that marriage without sex can work even though it is not ideal.

 

Make no mistake...I wish my marriage was better. Make no mistake...how I feel may change in time. But also...understand that I have too much to let go.

[JamesM]

Geez you make excuse after excuse after excuse.......

 

No, I gave a list of what I get in my marriage.

 

You claim you have everything with her,

 

No, I don't.

 

yet she won't give you the one thing you crave and the effort on her part would be minimal.....

 

The one thing I crave is not simply sexual release. And while an effort to give me a physical release would be minimal, a sexual expression of her love takes more than simply a few strokes or movement of her body.

 

You aren't asking for much.....

 

I agree.

 

I am banging my head over and over into a wall trying to understand......

 

For some reason I have that song in my head from Quiet Riot...

"Bang your head

Metal Health'll drive you mad"

 

 

Heck tell her you're actively looking for a fwb, but want to share all other facets of "this wonderful" union.....

 

It is a thought. As for the sarcasm, I never said that this is a perfect union or even always a wonderful union. I have said (and this differs from some in sexless marriages), I still love her with all my heart. Actively searching for a FWB would change the dynamics and probably change my feelings for her and break up the family that my children need. Perhaps she would look for someone (albeit hers would be more of an EA). And saying that she has already broken it by not having sex would be wrong. I won't let that happen so easily. And to say that she will change if I threaten her with a FWB may be true but is not a sign of her love but of fear.

[JamesM]

In all these years, I've grown distant and basically fallen out of love because with no sex there is no intimacy. We are not a couple. I don't even know all the reasons for this. Refusing to act to salvage our marriage has been a massive blow for me.

 

While my wife appears not to want to change, I know her She wants to for me but doesn't feel the need for her. I know that she loves me as she states it often enough. We still do hug and kiss. She simply doesn't feel the sexual urge to continue for whatever reason. She still considers me her best friend...and I her. We still enjoy spending time together and laughing and sharing.

 

I still love her. And I am convinced that she loves me.

 

I'm quite surprised that James is not experiencing the same, because when you are not physically close it stops being a marriage.

 

I don't believe that it stops being a marriage. It does stop being a physically close one. I wish ours was a physical one, but for now it isn't.

 

I really care for my wife, but we are brother and sister and I can only love her like that now.

 

I love my wife much more than my sister...who I love dearly. We do have a bond that exists despite our lack of sex.

 

I believe that if your wife became physical with you, then your love would change for her.

 

It's a shame, but I have done all in my powers to change it.

 

Perhaps I have, too. Perhaps I am in denial. Perhaps I have simply accepted life as it is. But perhaps I still have an optimistic hope that this will change.

 

I failed, because there's nothing to change.

 

My opinion is..."men do not fail they give up trying." (Elihu Root) Perhaps there IS nothing to change. Perhaps I am an eternal optimist. Or perhaps the solution is just around the corner.

 

And I don't believe things will ever change for James either.

 

And I still do.

 

I admire him if he is still able to draw positiveness from his relationship... he must be better than me.

 

No, I firmly believe that I am NOT better at all. I only think that my love for my wife keeps me trying. It keeps me looking for solutions. Perhaps I am delusional, but until I believe that for myself, I won't quit.