What do you get out of your marriage...

[JamesM]

You have obviously not read the 6,600+ posts JamesM has made.

 

Ok...not fair...not nearly all of them are about my sexless marriage!

 

Sex is something JamesM wants in his marriage desperately.

 

Yes. Actually, James wants his wife to express her love sexually. Different than just wanting sex.

 

All these other things are wonderful (and heck JamesM may have a better marriage then me;)), but his wife's consistent refusal and lack of effort is very very sad.

 

Agree.

 

JamesM's wife has removed a very important part of their marriage

 

Agree.

 

and she is non-plussed by it

 

Two definition for non plussed....

 

(of a person) Surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react.

(of a person) Unperturbed. (Not concerned).

 

I think it is more of the number one than of the number two. She is definitely concerned, but may not be surprised. She is confused but not as how to react but as how to fix it. Hence, she herself is in denial as to the severity of the problem.

 

and JamesM comes here professing a deeper love for her and as Giotto says seems to be in denial.

 

No, my love is not deeper than it was or could be. But I do have a commitment to my marriage that does transcend (at this point) the lack of a physical connection. I am not in denial as to what we are missing. But I also am not focused on only what we are missing. I also know what we have.

 

Oddly, your feedback is good for me as it makes me think.

[JamesM]

Elswyth, thank you from the bottom of my heart. You get what I feel. I know that if I looked at it from an outside POV without knowing the inner details, then perhaps I would see it differently. However, I would not say to me or anyone else in a similar situation...leave.

 

However, I think James gets way more flak than he deserves on this site (not necessarily from you, just a feeling I get when I read his threads), just for making the decision to remain in his marriage and to view his glass as half full. Anything and everything good that he mentions about his wife is immediately dismissed by several posters as 'denial'. Why? Surely it's possible for someone to be unhappy about the lack of one aspect of their marriage/relationship and yet be happy about other aspects.

 

Yes, it is possible to be unhappy about one aspect and still love the rest, even if it is so important as a physical connection. I know that I am not in denial. I have over analyzed my marriage from every angle. I still believe that I am missing the solution. Until I feel that there is no hope and I have no love or commitment, then I cannot give up.

 

I can't say for sure what I would do in his position, but I can say this: I have incredible respect for someone who actually treats his marriage like a marriage. Not 'til you tire of having sex with me', or 'til you gain weight', or 'til you stop providing everything that I want in a wife/husband', but til death do us part. Because, really, isn't that what marriage is? A lifelong commitment. Those are the vows. If you are going to leave because you're not getting everything you want out of it... why marry and utter those words?

 

Well said. And I have said similar words to myself. Why say the vow if you are ready to quit? This isn't death...far from it. This certainly isn't the worst that can happen. And I still love her as I know she does me. So, why not just a little longer...or even a lot longer?

 

Divorce happens not because one person gives up, but because both people give up. Divorces do not happen because one person breaks the vow, but because both people break the vow.

[JamesM]

IMy wife didn't get her emotional support and gave me even less sex. Vicious circle. How did James avoided this?

 

Simple. My wife still gets her emotional support and my friendship. I receive her emotional support and friendship. That part of our marriage is still very much alive.

 

Communication about sexual intimacy and the connection via sexual intimacy does not need to be part of that "vicious circle." If it was, then the whole marriage would die. As long as I want to keep my marriage alive, then I can by giving...emotional support and friendship. If I want to take "revenge" on her and take away what is important to her until she gives me what is important to me, then I could. But then this would create that vicious cycle and probably not bring about a solution.

[CarboniteCammy]

I am new to being married, but my husband brings alot to the table in many different facets of our partnership. It wasn't always that way, but he's really stepped up and I'm much more confidant in our relationship now.

 

He's my best friend and he's the best lover I've ever had. He supports me in most of my endeavors and is a great dad. He's our primary bread winner, although I also do work. I know I can trust him. He makes me laugh. I love the way he holds me. He often helps me with the household chores. He tells me all the time how much he loves me and how important I am to him. He tells me that he wants me.

 

Due to all of his support, I'm able to be a better partner to him.

 

The baby takes an awful lot of my time and sometimes I feel guilty (he never makes me feel bad, this is all in my head) for not being able to give him more time. But, I do make every effort to let him know how much he means to me and how much I love him in every way I can.

[giotto]

Simple. My wife still gets her emotional support and my friendship. I receive her emotional support and friendship. That part of our marriage is still very much alive.

 

Communication about sexual intimacy and the connection via sexual intimacy does not need to be part of that "vicious circle." If it was, then the whole marriage would die. As long as I want to keep my marriage alive, then I can by giving...emotional support and friendship. If I want to take "revenge" on her and take away what is important to her until she gives me what is important to me, then I could. But then this would create that vicious cycle and probably not bring about a solution.

 

ok, so obviously, you are happy with just the intimacy and connection you get from the emotional support and friendship your wife gives you. This is where we differ. I wouldn't be, because they are not enough for me. We would be just "friends"...

[Els]

Elswyth, thank you from the bottom of my heart. You get what I feel. I know that if I looked at it from an outside POV without knowing the inner details, then perhaps I would see it differently. However, I would not say to me or anyone else in a similar situation...leave.

 

You're most welcome. I genuinely feel for you, as from reading your posts I get the impression of a good guy trying his best to do the right thing under adverse circumstances. And I am terribly sorry that you are going through this.

 

Yes, it is possible to be unhappy about one aspect and still love the rest, even if it is so important as a physical connection. I know that I am not in denial. I have over analyzed my marriage from every angle. I still believe that I am missing the solution. Until I feel that there is no hope and I have no love or commitment, then I cannot give up.

 

If it helps, many of the couples I know who have been together for 20+ years have some aspect or other that they are dissatisfied with, in their marriage (my parents' friends talked very candidly with me around when I was a kid, perhaps assuming I didn't understand. ) Many of them stayed together, and several years later, still believe that they did the right thing. There is rarely perfection in anything in life, I think. Often you need to make a decision, one trade-off for another.

 

Well said. And I have said similar words to myself. Why say the vow if you are ready to quit? This isn't death...far from it. This certainly isn't the worst that can happen. And I still love her as I know she does me. So, why not just a little longer...or even a lot longer?

 

Divorce happens not because one person gives up, but because both people give up. Divorces do not happen because one person breaks the vow, but because both people break the vow.

 

Yes, I personally feel that if someone is to consider divorce as soon as he/she is dissatisfied with what he/she is getting out of the marriage at that particular time, there was not much point in getting married to begin with. It takes a lot of integrity, strength, and commitment to persevere when things look bleak, and I think people who do so should be commended, not denigrated.

[BetheButterfly]

...but should you be even asking yourself that question?

 

This thread started because of a couple of question asked of me.

 

Here is the first comment.....

 

 

 

...which led to the following questions....

 

 

 

So, I thought about these questions this weekend. What do I get out of it?

 

Then it hit me...should I really be asking myself that question when in reality, I made a commitment to put into the marriage? Isn't true love about giving and giving even if it is not being equally reciprocated?

 

JamesM, you're on my hero list!!!

 

Amen! That's what true love is!!!

 

And truthfully, the answer is no, I shouldn't be asking myself that question, and yes, it IS more about giving than receiving. Marriage is a commitment "for better or for worse." Too many divorces happen because this question is asked: "What is in it for me?" And when the answer is "Not enough at the moment," then the person becomes dissatisfied and looks elsewhere. Sadly, some look back and see that despite the momentary "Not enough," the reality is that it was more than enough.

 

Commitment means staying even if the immediate benefits seem minimal.

 

But to answer the question.....

 

What do I get out of it?

 

1. A family. No, not just children, but a family which is filled with love and laughter and fun. I am a father who enjoys both his wife and his children. We have fun times together and laugh and love and talk. This is no small thing. Leaving this would be very sad for me...and I believe them. And without her, the family would not be complete. I know that this is not just a relationship with her, but it is a direct result of that relationship, and she brought it about. She is the spark and excitement. I am the stability and discipline. Together we make a good team.

 

2. My best friend. Yes, she is. Despite my venting here, if I am given a choice of being with her or any other person, then I must and want to choose her first. It is because she is who I enjoy sharing my time with and my activities with. Outside of our issue of sex, we do share most everything. There is no one else I confide in...nor do I want to.

 

3. Comfort and relaxation. I used to tell my managers years ago that when an employee comes to work for us, we want them to feel at home...because home may not be fun or relaxing. Mine is. I enjoy going home. I don't feel that it will be uncomfortable. When I have the choice of going out or staying home, I prefer my home. And because she is there, it is (almost) always comfortable and relaxing.

 

4. A partner who makes my life easier. Selfishly, I can say that she cooks and cleans (except recently with her surgery), and does an excellent job at all. She cooks well enough so that our children prefer her cooking to going out or take in food by far. When mom cooks, then life is so much better for them...and me. She does things so that my life is easier. She has things ready, so that I don't have to stress. She is a great partner in life.

 

5. A coach and encourager. Yes, she has a motivation and intelligence that keeps me going and can give me direction. I trust no one else to really give me that. I am what I am in part because of who she is.

 

6. I am sure there are more that I cannot formulate into words right now.

 

Just because one thing is missing from our marriage...and granted a big thing, this in no way means that I am ready to walk out and look for someone else. We have a great time that is something that I want to keep.

 

Could it change in the future? Of course. Do I want it to? No.

 

So I ask anyone...what do you get out of your marriage? Would you leave when you do not get "enough?" Did you enter into this marriage for the benefits or because you love your spouse? Do you want him or her to leave if YOU do not provide enough benefits?

 

Is marriage about costs versus benefits, or is it a commitment to a person "for better or for worse?"

 

That is awesome JamesM!!! I only wish that your wife loved sex and enjoys sex with you. However, you are right that she gives you so much and you give her so much too. A loving, happy family is priceless. True best friends are hard to come by. Comfort and relaxation gives strength to face the day. Coaches and encourager who are your personal coach/encourager gives inspiration. There are tons of additional benefits in your marriage and I think the reason why is because you value your wife as the complete individual she is. You don't despise her because of her shortcomings. That is beautiful. You are an awesome man JamesM. Blessings!!!

[JamesM]

JamesM, you're on my hero list!!!

 

Amen! That's what true love is!!!

 

Thank you, but I am not really a hero...just a husband.

 

 

That is awesome JamesM!!! I only wish that your wife loved sex and enjoys sex with you. However, you are right that she gives you so much and you give her so much too. A loving, happy family is priceless. True best friends are hard to come by. Comfort and relaxation gives strength to face the day. Coaches and encourager who are your personal coach/encourager gives inspiration. There are tons of additional benefits in your marriage and I think the reason why is because you value your wife as the complete individual she is. You don't despise her because of her shortcomings. That is beautiful. You are an awesome man JamesM. Blessings!!!

 

It is hard sometimes not to focus on the shortcomings and forget the good things. And as has been said, sex is everything if you don't get it and not much if you get enough.

 

I guess what keeps me going most is the fact that I am an optimist. I hold on to the idea that one day this will get better.

 

"This too shall pass."

[Mr. Lucky]

"This too shall pass."

I'm curious James as to what realistic (not just what you might wish for) chain of events you forsee that will cause this to pass? And if it doesn't (I seem to remember you being in your 40's), will you ride off into the sunset this way?

 

Mr. Lucky

[mercy]

 

So I ask anyone...what do you get out of your marriage? Would you leave when you do not get "enough?" Did you enter into this marriage for the benefits or because you love your spouse? Do you want him or her to leave if YOU do not provide enough benefits?

 

 

James, this question has nagged at me all day. Triggered something in me that I really feel ashamed of because years ago I struggled with this and didn't handle it in the honorable way you did. Every once in a while I think if only I could take it all back.

 

All within a few months of each other I lost my bff, it devastated me. My stepdaughter whom I adore moved away, then my daughter moved too. 9/11 happened and since my h is/was a anti terrorist specialist and pilot in the military, he left. Alone in the house, grieving, I began to lose myself. I thought well why don't I leave too.

 

So when h came home from a short mission I said I was thinking divorce. To him it came out of left field. He begged and pleaded but I was determined. I was angry at life and believed that if I could leave too then all would be well, life would be good. Everyone saw the change in me but I wasn't listening. h's hurt turned to anger and he had an affair. I mean what difference would it make to me, right? Wrong.

 

To make a long story short, he was filled with shame and ended it and the OW called me. I saw and felt in that moment our life together and what really mattered to me. He did, our life together, the family, our history, all of it mattered. I was gifted in that moment what mattered most to me, him.

 

Through those extremely tough times we stuck together and the rewards have been amazing. My life is blessed.

 

And you know what else is amazing? You James, you are.

[Saba]

James your story really hits a sore spot for me. I know your situation will be very different from mine, but I want to tell you a bit of mine anyway, I hope you don't mind. It is a bit off topic.

 

My partner and I decided not to have children and for birth control we chose the pill. My sex drive went from ok (same as his) to nonexistent (I did not realise it was the pill that was causing that). It was a struggle for me too 'psych' myself up for it. It was fine once things were happening however actually starting was the problem. My partner was very understanding when our sex life went from both of us suggesting sex to him always aggressing and our sexual encounters being very predictable (ie bedtime every second / third day). It is not easy to start having sex when you don't want to. It starts to feel like a burden even though for me it was fun once I started. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

 

Since going off the pill my sex drive improved back to normal and our sex life improved as well. Even so it has taken some time to change my mindset because things can so easily become a habit. I did not know what was causing me to feel the way I was feeling about sex so I had trouble talking to my partner about it.

 

I know the reasons for your situation will be different however, things can change.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Saba
spelling

[frozensprouts]

James, this question has nagged at me all day. Triggered something in me that I really feel ashamed of because years ago I struggled with this and didn't handle it in the honorable way you did. Every once in a while I think if only I could take it all back.

 

All within a few months of each other I lost my bff, it devastated me. My stepdaughter whom I adore moved away, then my daughter moved too. 9/11 happened and since my h is/was a anti terrorist specialist and pilot in the military, he left. Alone in the house, grieving, I began to lose myself. I thought well why don't I leave too.

 

So when h came home from a short mission I said I was thinking divorce. To him it came out of left field. He begged and pleaded but I was determined. I was angry at life and believed that if I could leave too then all would be well, life would be good. Everyone saw the change in me but I wasn't listening. h's hurt turned to anger and he had an affair. I mean what difference would it make to me, right? Wrong.

 

To make a long story short, he was filled with shame and ended it and the OW called me. I saw and felt in that moment our life together and what really mattered to me. He did, our life together, the family, our history, all of it mattered. I was gifted in that moment what mattered most to me, him.

 

Through those extremely tough times we stuck together and the rewards have been amazing. My life is blessed.

 

And you know what else is amazing? You James, you are.

 

sometimes it takes almost losing what you have to realize it's what you really want after all...

 

it's really easy to just plod along and not really thunk about your marriage and what good it brings to your life...I think we all at some time or another, take it for granted, stop caring ,or just get "lazy"...life can do that...sometimes you just feel so worn down by everything that you can't see the good that's right in front of you...

 

James...Mercy is right, you are an awesome guy, and your wife sounds like a pretty awesome lady too...just based upon what you have written, it sounds like she does love you, and it's not a lack of love for you that's keeping her from wanting to have sex with you...sounds like it's a whole lot more complicated than that...if she's spoken with her doctor about it, is there anything he can recommend? If she's taking medication for her fibromyalgia, they may well be affecting her libido ( the two most common meds. for it do that)

[JamesM]

I'm curious James as to what realistic (not just what you might wish for) chain of events you forsee that will cause this to pass? And if it doesn't (I seem to remember you being in your 40's), will you ride off into the sunset this way?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr Lucky...I wish I knew the answer. I really do.

 

I guess that since much of my wife's low libido comes from her pain or meds, then I still hope that one of those will be solved or taken away. Small hope...but still there. I know that it really does bother her...just not enough to make it a priority for her.

 

I also wonder how much of this could be helped if she saw sex as more important, but unfortunately, I think it is like being hungry. If you aren't then it isn't a priority. If you are, then it is all you think about.

 

So I really don't have a great answer to your question.

 

Will I ride off into the sunset while still in a sexless marriage? This too is a question I have asked many of times. What if this never changes? Will I stay happily? Or will I stay out of resentment? Will I keep staying because of the children even after they are gone? Will I find someone and leave in later years and then realize what I have missed for so many years, or will I leave and realize that I truly liked most of what I had?

 

I just don't know. I just don't know. What I do know that if I left now, then I would always wonder "What if I had stayed?" If I ever leave (and that is a big if right now), then I want to leave satisfied that it is the right decision.

 

I guess for now it is one day at a time. Today I am content with where I am. Perhaps tomorrow or the next day it will all change one way or another.

 

I do want to add that I appreciated this question when it was posted on another thread. That is why I started this one. It really has made me think alot about what I have and what I don't. I have been thinking more about what I have than dwelling on what I don't. I know the person who asked it may think I was offended, but truly, looking back, I am grateful for the question. I wondered if I SHOULD ask myself the question, and yet when I tried to answer it, I found that it helped me rather than hurt me.

[JamesM]

James, this question has nagged at me all day. Triggered something in me that I really feel ashamed of because years ago I struggled with this and didn't handle it in the honorable way you did. Every once in a while I think if only I could take it all back.

 

Through those extremely tough times we stuck together and the rewards have been amazing. My life is blessed.

 

And you know what else is amazing? You James, you are.

 

Mercy...I don't think you need to dwell on your feelings of shame. I think it turned out good. All that happened was used to show you and your husband that what you had was wonderful. SO many people in your situation would have still walked when your h had the affair. Many would never have tried fixing what you had. You and I see it here often. Because of this painful time in your marriage, your marriage is so much stronger. I don't wish for the pain for my wife and I, but I am jealous of the closeness that you speak of about your marriage.

 

I agree...you have a blessed life that came about because of some very trying times. The outcome could have been so different.

 

Thank you for the compliment. Truly appreciated deep down. I can't say that I feel amazing at all. I just hope that perhaps the not so good times my wife and I have now may be used to have what you and your husband have sometime in the future.

[JamesM]

James...Mercy is right, you are an awesome guy, and your wife sounds like a pretty awesome lady too...just based upon what you have written, it sounds like she does love you, and it's not a lack of love for you that's keeping her from wanting to have sex with you...sounds like it's a whole lot more complicated than that...if she's spoken with her doctor about it, is there anything he can recommend? If she's taking medication for her fibromyalgia, they may well be affecting her libido ( the two most common meds. for it do that)

 

Thank you. In many ways, I never have lost the admiration and respect that I have always had for my wife. Despite my resentment at times for what we don't have, I still only want that with her...and not someone else.

 

I think she has spoken to her doctors in the past, and she has said that they simply shrug it off as side effects of meds or something that cannot be solved. Personally, I don't think they take it really seriously, because there is no magical pill out there to give her. I know that meds can kill the libido. She herself thinks that meds or her pain is what is doing it.

 

But I am the kind of person that can't simply say "Oh well, nothing can change." I always think that there MUST be something that can be done. And I still have that hope that the next idea of the next comment will be the one that brings me a solution. Perhaps it is an empty and vain hope....but until I know for sure that there is no hope, I guess I will keep on trying.

[pteromom]

Have you thought about sharing with HER what you wrote about what you get out of your marriage?

 

Leave sex out of it altogether - just a love letter about everything you appreciate about her and your life together.

 

If my hubby wrote all that beautiful stuff about me, I would jump him in a second. But even if your wife doesn't have the same reaction, perhaps it would inspire her to dig deeper for help.

[Mr. Lucky]

I also wonder how much of this could be helped if she saw sex as more important, but unfortunately, I think it is like being hungry. If you aren't then it isn't a priority. If you are, then it is all you think about.

It's too bad she can't intellectualize its value from a bonding standpoint. Even absent the "Big O", the intimate, skin-on-skin contact has a value in relationships beyond procreation and biology. Outside of what could be perceived as a man's selfish need for a release, I wonder why a woman wouldn't want to keep her man satisfied for social and security reasons.

 

You seem like a good guy, James. I wonder why she wouldn't want to mark you as her territory ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[pteromom]

It's too bad she can't intellectualize its value from a bonding standpoint. Even absent the "Big O", the intimate, skin-on-skin contact has a value in relationships beyond procreation and biology.

 

I can only speak for myself, but when I am not turned on, sex and being physically intimate grosses me out. The sweat, the fluids, the smells.. BLEH. When I am turned on, I don't notice any of those things.

 

And I agree it isn't about the Big O.

 

Outside of what could be perceived as a man's selfish need for a release, I wonder why a woman wouldn't want to keep her man satisfied for social and security reasons.

 

I know James' wife doesn't, but I do. Not for social and security reasons though - I just feel that as his wife, I have a responsibility to try to meet his relationship needs the best I can. So I really try...

[Mr. Lucky]

I know James' wife doesn't, but I do. Not for social and security reasons though - I just feel that as his wife, I have a responsibility to try to meet his relationship needs the best I can. So I really try...

Pteromom, that's what I meant by "social" reasons. You explained it better than I ...

 

With about the same time commitment and manual dexterity needed to peel a half-dozen potatoes, a woman can make a man pretty happy . It ain't that complicated...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Saba]

It's too bad she can't intellectualize its value from a bonding standpoint. Even absent the "Big O", the intimate, skin-on-skin contact has a value in relationships beyond procreation and biology. Outside of what could be perceived as a man's selfish need for a release, I wonder why a woman wouldn't want to keep her man satisfied for social and security reasons.

 

 

It could be argued that if she is feeling unwell or is in pain that it is not unreasonable for her to expect her husband to put his own needs aside. I could be wrong but I thought that they still kissed and cuddled so I thought he was not deprived of all sexual contact.

[giotto]

I could be wrong but I thought that they still kissed and cuddled so I thought he was not deprived of all sexual contact.

 

I would find that even worse... yes, it's nice, but if you know it won't lead to anything, ever, than it's pure torture. It's like dangling a carrot in front of you. You can touch it a bit, but you can't eat it, even if you are starving...

[waterwoman]

Does that make sense?

 

We are getting that back after a few years of lacking it. His affair made us realise in time what we were putting at risk.

[waterwoman]

Agree with elswyth, James you are a good man and seem to understand that marriage is about what you can give as well as what you can take. I hope you both find a solution to make your marriage what you'd like it to be.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

excuses, excuses, excuses...... If it is so bad and she couldn't care less (and for the most part she is thrilled with the status quo), why not discuss JamesM finding a FWB?

 

I sound harsh, but I have no other answer as JamesM comes back again and again making excuses for her behaviour, or rationalizes the state of affairs.

 

Yes we all rationalize, however with JamesM it just seems the same over and over. Again we are not asking extremes (i.e. continual sex, kinky sex, threesomes.. or things that would make me pause). On other sites I am amazed what some ask and expect of their spouses. Here on LS, the requests are little more than the semblance of a normal sex life (usually around 1X/wk (with the hopes of maybe a little more).

 

Again it comes back to the "bait and switch" scenarios and expectations to grow old and enjoy one another in many ways......

Edited November 8, 2012 by Toodamnpragmatic

[JamesM]

Have you thought about sharing with HER what you wrote about what you get out of your marriage?

 

Leave sex out of it altogether - just a love letter about everything you appreciate about her and your life together.

 

If my hubby wrote all that beautiful stuff about me, I would jump him in a second. But even if your wife doesn't have the same reaction, perhaps it would inspire her to dig deeper for help.

 

No, but I may need to. It has been awhile. While I won't do it expecting anything (seriously), IF I mean it, then it will be good for her to hear it...and not just a bunch of people (albeit good people ) on a forum board.

 

It's too bad she can't intellectualize its value from a bonding standpoint.

 

You seem like a good guy, James. I wonder why she wouldn't want to mark you as her territory ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

She knows it in her head, but doing it seems to be a struggle. Granted, the last couple of months can be excused away from her surgeries, but prior to that despite the pain, something could be done once in awhile.

 

My Lucky, for some reason when I read about marking me, all I could think of is her lifting her leg and...."marking" me.

 

I just feel that as his wife, I have a responsibility to try to meet his relationship needs the best I can. So I really try...

 

Keep it up. I think it is a responsibility.

 

With about the same time commitment and manual dexterity needed to peel a half-dozen potatoes, a woman can make a man pretty happy . It ain't that complicated...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Love this comment! Please...a potato? Perhaps peeling a cucumber?

 

But to me sex is more than simply "making my man happy." It is also about expressing love between two individuals. And as Mr Lucky said, it is about bonding. While we can bond through talking and perhaps kissing, sex takes it to the next level.