BetheButterfly Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Hello, Well, we already discussed the Christian biblical mandate for wives to submit to their husbands. It was very enlightening and I appreciated the feedback. Now, what about the Christian biblical mandate for husbands to love their wives? I 100% agree with Eswyth here: Originally Posted by Elswyth Well, then at least you understand that both sides of the coin need to be present for this sort of relationship dynamic to work out. Only the husband giving up his life, or only the wife submitting, would quickly lead to abuse and imbalance. In the light of that important quote above, below are the passages concerning husbands loving their wives: Ephesians 5 - Paul's letter to the Church in Ephesus. Ephesians 5 NIV - Follow God (I boldened some.) "25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[Genesis 2:24] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband." Colossians 3:19 (Paul's letter to the Church in Colossae) Colossians 3 NIV - Living as Those Made Alive in Christ - Bible Gateway "19 Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them." Now, Peter doesn't say for husbands to love their wives, but he does say "all of you" to "love each other" later on in the passage... 1 Peter 3 (I boldened some.) 1 Peter 3 NIV - Wives, in the same way submit - Bible Gateway "7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." So, what do you think love is? Why is it so important, according to Paul especially, that husbands love their wives? Why is it that it is difficult for many husbands to love their wives or for her to feel like he truly loves her? About being wives being the "weaker partner", I believe this means in physical strength. Now, I realize that not all husbands are physically stronger than their wives. However, it does seem to generally be the case that men are physically stronger in general than women. My husband is much stronger than me. When he pins me down, I can not move for the life of me! However, I love his strength. If he used his strength to hurt me, I would not like his strength at all though. (When he pins me down, it's not to hurt me. We like to play and this is one way we play... wrestling!!!) To me, the love of my husband gives me strength. I "feed" off of his love and I love him back. It's very easy for me to love; it's a lot harder for me to respect, interestingly. My husband's love for me helps me to respect him. Do you think it's harder for some men to love? Is that why there is this mandate? As for what Jesus says, Jesus makes it clear to love God and each other, including one's enemies. Now, husbands and wives should NOT be enemies!!! However, love is the central theme of Jesus' message. Edited November 6, 2012 by BetheButterfly 2 Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is easier for men to control their wives than to love them. It is easier for women to love their husbands than to submit to them. Hence the "commandments are given as "Wives submit..." and "Husbands love..." The Greek word used is agape and refers to self-sacrificing love. It is much easier to control someone and force her to obey than to love someone and sacrifice for her. True love is about giving and giving without the expectation of getting in return. As Christ gave himself for his people because he loved them, so must the husband "give" of himself for his wife because he loves her. Women usually tend to respond to a loving husband and not to a controlling and demanding husband. (And men tend to find it easier to love a wife who respects and submits to them). Just my quick 2c. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 It is easier for men to control their wives than to love them. It is easier for women to love their husbands than to submit to them. Hence the "commandments are given as "Wives submit..." and "Husbands love..." The Greek word used is agape and refers to self-sacrificing love. It is much easier to control someone and force her to obey than to love someone and sacrifice for her. True love is about giving and giving without the expectation of getting in return. As Christ gave himself for his people because he loved them, so must the husband "give" of himself for his wife because he loves her. Women usually tend to respond to a loving husband and not to a controlling and demanding husband. (And men tend to find it easier to love a wife who respects and submits to them). Just my quick 2c. You are AWESOME JamesM!!! I have to say... I really really really wish your wife loved sex.. However, your love for her in spite of her shortcomings (which I do believe the lack of desire for sex is a shortcoming in a marriage where the other person loves sex) is amazing and shows you are more than simply a guy controlled by his brain and penis. You know how to love and you love in spite of your wife's shortcomings. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 As you may have percieved, my theology is often uncertain and something of a muddle, but in my opinion James nailed it: God (despite my uncertainties about the authority of Paul in other respects ) was instructing us to do the things that we would be most resistant to, given our natural prolictivities. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I agree the husband should be like Christ to his wife. But what about when his wife wants him to "love" or "lead" in a way which is contrary to the example of Christ? I'm specifically referring to a wife's desire for wealth or worldly gain, which Christ warned about more than anything. Is a husband being a leader if he exceeds a base amount by which to live on and enters the area of greed--just because his wife may want it? I guess the brings up the question: Is a husband to love his wife and, in essence, give her EVERYTHING she wants? Edited November 6, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 You are AWESOME JamesM!!! I have to say... I really really really wish your wife loved sex.. However, your love for her in spite of her shortcomings (which I do believe the lack of desire for sex is a shortcoming in a marriage where the other person loves sex) is amazing and shows you are more than simply a guy controlled by his brain and penis. You know how to love and you love in spite of your wife's shortcomings. Thank you...so do I. M30USA, it is not about giving your wife everything. It is about loving your wife as your own body. There are many things that you could give your body, but they are not good for it (ie. smoking, too much alcohol, too much food, certain types of food, drugs, etc.) And so the husband is to love his wife as his own body and give as is good for her. Now that does not mean the wife does not have control of herself. It does not mean that the husband doesn't let her make her own decisions...good or bad. But it does mean that he can say no if he sees that something may not be good for her...and she asks it of him. And in a perfect world...since the wife submits to the husband , then this will work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) I married the perfect man for me. He's all God, family, country, a military man through and through. But with me there is a kindness and tenderness about him. He makes me feel like the most loved woman in a room. Across a room he'll wink at me or whisper something private, totally inappropriate. Sure he has his flaws. He's not real good at gifts or spur of the moment things. He wants to do things to please me but he just doesn't know what to do. So I keep a journal on things I desire and while he can pick one, it can't be exactly what I've written. For example he knows fall is my favorite season. This morning he set the alarm for 4am, I thought wth when it went off! He said pack a lunch we've got somewhere to be. And we drove to the top of a mountain and watched the sunrise. Best of all we worship God together, he prays with me and for me. He doesn't practice Sufism but he allows me the freedom of following my own path. He does do meditation with me sometimes but we end up laughing at his chanting and move on to other things! I think it was his intention all along. *evil grin* Life hasn't been easy for us lately with my mom, what with the new diagnosis of Alzheimer. But he looks at her as if she is his own mom. I am just so blessed. And there is nothing in this world that compares to being loved by my wonderful man. He holds my heart in the palm of his hand and guards it with his life. Proverbs 30:18-19 There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman. (NLT) Edited November 6, 2012 by mercy 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I had something crude to say about making love to your wives, but I think I'll just echo the sentiments . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Can't people just learn to love each other without needing to adopt a role, based on whether they're an innie or an outtie? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Can't people just learn to love each other without needing to adopt a role, based on whether they're an innie or an outtie? Eh, sounds good on the surface but the world doesn't work like that. Look up what happened to the Russian military last century which thought it was such a fair and equal idea to have no ranks or titles. Disaster. Nowhere in the world does the idea work--not even in the animal kingdom or nature. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Eh, sounds good on the surface but the world doesn't work like that. Look up what happened to the Russian military last century which thought it was such a fair and equal idea to have no ranks or titles. Disaster. Nowhere in the world does the idea work--not even in the animal kingdom or nature.Had no idea there were troops or groups of people, involved in a two person marriage. Does there need to be a hierarchy built about who gets the toilet first and how they should use the toilet or are two people capable of figuring it out on their own? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree the husband should be like Christ to his wife. But what about when his wife wants him to "love" or "lead" in a way which is contrary to the example of Christ? I'm specifically referring to a wife's desire for wealth or worldly gain, which Christ warned about more than anything. Is a husband being a leader if he exceeds a base amount by which to live on and enters the area of greed--just because his wife may want it? I guess the brings up the question: Is a husband to love his wife and, in essence, give her EVERYTHING she wants? Based on several lectures from my old pastor, I think you are missing the mark. It isn't about 'giving her everything she wants', it's about placing her well-being above your own selfish desires. JamesM is a good example of what a Christian man is exhorted to do in marriage, I believe, in that he places the well-being of his children and his wife above a personal desire for sex, as his wife is a good wife and mother in the Biblical sense as well. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I agree the husband should be like Christ to his wife. But what about when his wife wants him to "love" or "lead" in a way which is contrary to the example of Christ? I'm specifically referring to a wife's desire for wealth or worldly gain, which Christ warned about more than anything. Is a husband being a leader if he exceeds a base amount by which to live on and enters the area of greed--just because his wife may want it? I guess the brings up the question: Is a husband to love his wife and, in essence, give her EVERYTHING she wants? Does Christ give you everything you want? No way, bro. Your wife was abusive from what I have read on here. Sorry you had to go through that! Did you get any warning signs at all she was like that during courting? I don't want to detract from the thread, but did you get any red flags at all? Your story scares me haha I have known a few marriages that ended, mainly b/c the husband did a 180 and became an abusive jerk. Link to post Share on other sites
M30USA Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Does Christ give you everything you want? No way, bro. Your wife was abusive from what I have read on here. Sorry you had to go through that! Did you get any warning signs at all she was like that during courting? I don't want to detract from the thread, but did you get any red flags at all? Your story scares me haha I have known a few marriages that ended, mainly b/c the husband did a 180 and became an abusive jerk. Biggest warning: her own dad told me that she doesn't listen and refuses to let people have their way. And her mother told me she was "so hard to raise". Truthfully, looking back, I can't blame anyone but myself. She didn't change. I did. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 I married the perfect man for me. He's all God, family, country, a military man through and through. But with me there is a kindness and tenderness about him. He makes me feel like the most loved woman in a room. Across a room he'll wink at me or whisper something private, totally inappropriate. Awesome!!! Sure he has his flaws. He's not real good at gifts or spur of the moment things. He wants to do things to please me but he just doesn't know what to do. So I keep a journal on things I desire and while he can pick one, it can't be exactly what I've written. That's a good idea! For example he knows fall is my favorite season. This morning he set the alarm for 4am, I thought wth when it went off! He said pack a lunch we've got somewhere to be. And we drove to the top of a mountain and watched the sunrise. How romantic!!! I'd wake up before sunset for that!!! Best of all we worship God together, he prays with me and for me. Beautiful He doesn't practice Sufism but he allows me the freedom of following my own path. He does do meditation with me sometimes but we end up laughing at his chanting and move on to other things! I think it was his intention all along. *evil grin* Lol. I still don't know much about Sufism. Could you please start a thread someday and write about it? Thanks! Life hasn't been easy for us lately with my mom, what with the new diagnosis of Alzheimer. But he looks at her as if she is his own mom. I am so sorry about your Mom. I'll be praying for her. I am just so blessed. And there is nothing in this world that compares to being loved by my wonderful man. He holds my heart in the palm of his hand and guards it with his life. I'm so glad that you have a wonderful husband who loves you and her and takes care of you. I would like to use your quote as my signature, can I please??? Proverbs 30:18-19 There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman. (NLT) Wow thanks for posting this amazing proverb!!! Beautiful! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Lol. I still don't know much about Sufism. Could you please start a thread someday and write about it? Thanks! No, never! I've seen what happens to some thread starters. It's just not for me. Here is something for you - Wahiduddin's Web Men I read - Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee and Gary Zukav and of course Rumi. I am so sorry about your Mom. I'll be praying for her. Thank you so much. I just can't put into words what a despicable disease it is. I would like to use your quote as my signature, can I please??? I can't deny you anything sweet lass! In the bold ^^ 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Thanks for the link Mercy! I have made sure to add it to my favourites to allow time to muse upon. Take care, Eve x 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 In the bold ^^ Thanks Mercy! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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