This might be nothing but.....

[kiababy]

No Morgana, he does not know I am on this site, he has no idea that I have had any second thoughts about this relationship at all......not now anyway. Back in May we had our one and only....misunderstanding, I can't even call it a fight. We were still basically doing our own thing and just seeing each other occasionally when one day he called me and said that he wanted to tell me something - we have always had a 100% honesty policy - he told me he had met some girl that Saturday night and had sex with her. I was floored - this was after months and months of barely being able to see him because he had been on complete lockdown after his wife had received the phone call from one of his previous OW's. What the chick didn't know, was that he had lots of women, not just her, and he got tired of seeing her. So she told his wife about their affair but didn't realize there was much more going on. He told me that I'm the only person - not just woman, he's ever been completely honest with. Not to get sidetracked, but it started the night we met - during the big blackout last summer. We were stranded in the same place, it was the middle of a heat wave, and we talked (and had sex) for hours. For some reason we just spilled our guts to each other. And we've been together ever since.

 

Anyway, so he told me that he felt he had to tell me he had sex with someone else because he felt he had 'cheated'on me. Morgana, it was like a punch in the stomach. He asked me if I was jealous, and I fought like crazy not to admit it, but he persisted until I admitted that yes, I was jealous...to my own surprise. Well girl, you never heard anyone so happy to hear that! He was thrilled because he thought I didn't really care, and he said I had the biggest part of his heart. Oh, he also said the sex with her was terrible because he didn't put any effort into it and didn't care. That was the first time we ever had a conversation that laid out how we felt about each other and I realized he needed to know where he stood with me. He wanted me to tell him what the 'rules' were going to be for our relationship, but I couldn't come up with any. I told him he didn't belong to me and he insisted that he did.

 

So....fast forward to now. Once he learned I did have feelings for him, and not just the best friend kind, as we had been calling each other, things started to change. He started calling me every day and telling me how awesome and wonderful I was. He started telling the guys he works with about me and playing them my messages. Of course the feeling is mutual. The weird thing is if it wasn't for the fluke meeting, our paths would probably never have crossed. We're so far apart iin age (I'm 42, he's 26), background - he's from a small northern town, I have a South American/.Carribean background and was born over in Europe.....we have absolutely nothing in common but a scary chemistry. He 'gets' me. We're at the point where we finish each other's thoughts - it's amazing, I've never had a connection like this with anyone in my lifetime. He is also the only one who can draw me out of my emotional shell. He's patient and gentle with me and knows what I need. It may not seem like it because as I've said, he's dominant, but that applies to the sexual part of our relationship, not anything else.

 

The reason I'm telling you all this is because I have never let anyone get close enough to hurt me before. I always have one foot out the door, I always expect things to go wrong, and I don't hang around for it to happen. I'm sure this all stems from my parents terrible marriage, all the fighting I had to listen to, my mother moving in and out, sometimes taking me with her, sometimes leaving me with my Dad. The worst part of my childhood was never knowing what was going to happen and never feeling safe. So I always acted like I didn't care. I've been that way with everything, you know? If I don't care, youi can't hurt me.

 

This week I want to finally say to him 'I love you'. He already knows it, I'm sure because in the past I told him that there were things I'd like to say to him but can't - he's the emotional one, he's the one who wears his heart on his sleeve and was the first to say that he couldn't help but develop feelings for me after being together for while. I want to say it to SOMEONE, other than my children, just once in my lifetime. When I told him that there were things I couldn't say, he told me he knew what it was...and it was O.K.

 

I never told my ex-husband I loved him by the way, and he didn't care. He told people he married me so i couldn't marry anyone else. I married him because I wanted to get away from my mother. I figured he was the lesser of two absolute evils.

[fanou22]

Morgana,

I have told my MM about my posting on a forum but I could not tell him what is it. I don't want him to read what I had posted in here. I asked him whether he would post but he refused saying he does not want to bashed and have to defend his actions (affair with me).

 

I know that if he was to read the forum he would know who I am. I am not ready for that yet. Maybe one day when we are no longer together he can read my thoughts and feelings.

 

He was curious about what other people thought about affairs. Why do women become OWs and why do men cheat. I think I have come to understand why he is cheating .

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by kiababy

You're entitled to have every emotion you're experiencing, what those who haven't been in our shoes don't understand is that no matter how temporary the relationship turns out to be - the emotions and feelings involved are 100% real.

 

Thank you for this. We may be living in a fictional/fantasy relationship, but the emotions are SO real, its scary.

 

Originally posted by kiababy

You know...I think she must know. She has to.

 

I have actually been in his house and saw her picture. She was away one weekend and he wanted me to come over - to see what it would be like if we were together. I saw pictures of her and she's really cute - as I knew she would be. She looks sweet and pretty, and if he loves her, how can I feel anything negative towards her? I guess the only thing that really bothers me about her is her rejection of him as a man. If she only knew how much and how deeply it 'hurts' him emotionally, as much as intimacy hurts her physically.

 

 

Kiababy - Have you found out whether she really does know? What happened?

 

I too have seen my MM's W's picture - at his office. She's really cute, at least what I can see (face only), which makes me wonder "jesus, if he has all of this, why would he be with me?" I agree with you re: her rejection of him as a man. Every man has needs, and, frankly, they seem to be fairly easy to meet - that is, if you truly care about him. I don't know if she knows how much it hurts him to not have his needs met by the woman who pledged she always would take care of him. Part of me thinks its her "fault" that he comes to me. Make sense?

[kiababy]

KissMyTiara, he's with YOU because you fulfill needs he has that his wife either can't or won't satisfy. Sometimes the MM is just afraid of his wife's reaction if he expresses a certain fantasy or curiosity about something. My MM is dominant, but couldn't put a name to it until we got together, he finds it wonderfully freeing to be able to express himself without worrying about his partner getting upset or angry. It's not even about going as far as whips or dog collars, it's simply him taking charge, that's all. He also had a fantasy about kidnapping me and keeping me, which I let him play out - he was soooooo happy afterwards, and it's only come up one time after that. Men just want to have their needs ACKNOWLEDGED and women need to stop thinking the worst when a guy has a kinky fantasy - notice I did not specify WIVES here, girlfriends do it too.

 

 

I think my MM's wife knows something is going on because:

 

a) she's crazy or in serious denial if she doesn't - a girl already called her last fall and told her she'd had an affair with her man

b) I received 3 phone calls in the middle of the night last weekend - they didn't say anything, juslt listened. I checked out the number in the reverse driectory on the internet - I have private call screening on my phone, if you *67 my your call can't go through to my number - anyway, the number came from an area I know for a fact his wife has friends in, i suspect she found my number on his phone and had a friend call to see who would answer

 

I think she's accepted it. He told me he's been cheating on her since high school - so why would she leave him now?

[morgana]

kiababy - thanks for sharing your story. i think my MM and i share the same scary chemistry that you mentioned you do with yours. my MM and i also do have a lot in common, in fact so much that at times the two of us used to find that scary, as well.

 

i think i've mentioned before that i've known him professionally for ages, probably even from before i married. and whenever business brought me to his area or his businees to mine, we'd try to meet for dinner or he'd come to the event i was running. our paths crossed at least once every year. we were friends and collegues but there also felt like there was supposed to be more. i'd always thought he was attractive but my feelings never went beyond that. but strange things woud periodically happen that would make me think of him and i somehow felt he was always with me. several years ago, my ex husband who's epileptic had a seizure on a plane and while most people tried to ignore what was going on (and refused to help) this man stepped in to help. it wasn't my MM but there was something about this man that reminded me of him and i felt an incredible calm rush over me so i could deal with the unfolding drama. there were many other times in my life when things would go wrong and i'd find myself thinking about him and i was never really sure why.

 

in jan. when i was in his area the person i was traveling with had other plans so MM and i decided to meet for dinner. after a very long dinner, i talked constantly - not unusual for me (in case you haven't figured that out!) we walked back to my hotel and i went to give him a hug goodbye. well, needless to say that hug lasted until the next morning. he called my cell when i was on the way home the next day and a few days later a beautiful pair of earrings and a note arrived at my office. telling me basically that flowers were nice but he was sending me these earrings because like his feelings they wouldn't fade over time. one of the few times in my life someone had left me speechless. he started signing his emails "love" and i put on the brakes. partly because i was still dealing with the last relationship i had had but also because he was married. that was when he confided in me what a sorry state his marriage was in. i alrady knew how much i cared but wasn't ready to admit it.

 

although i didn't get to see him very often we shared a lot through email and discovered so much about each other that we both felt in awe of what we'd found. the times we spent together were magical and i can still see the look in his eyes when he would look at me and take my hand. i've never felt so valued and so loved in my life. and i know he felt and expressed feeling the same way about me. in time i gave in to my feelings and let him know how i felt and things progressed further from there. until all hell broke lose when his wife got into his email.

 

and now here i am. hoping against all hope that he'll find his way back to me. we still have the whole distance issue to deal with, which at first he wasn't concerned about but as things fell apart i began to feel as though he would use that as an excuse for why we wouldn't work anyway. but i miss him terribly.

 

although i'd love to be able to have him as a permanent part of my life, right now i'd give almost anything to have him in it in any way, even for a situation like i've heard described by many here. i know we all have stories to tell and i know the love i feel for my MM is not unlike what many others may feel for theirs. and i know we all struggle on a daily basis to find answers to "why" things are the way they are and how we can deal with it. i do believe that everything happens for a reason and that if fate brought us together and means for us to be together again someday, then it will happen. unfortunately patience is not one of my virtues!

[KissMyTiara]

I had something written...but it disappeared!

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by morgana

kiababy - i used to like when my MM would leave me messages so i could listen to them before i fell asleep at night. maybe that sounds pathetic, i don't know. but the messages have all disappeared, they only stay for 21 days.

 

OH MY GOD!! I thought I was the only one who did that! Hahahahaha, such a relief!

 

 

Kia, what you said about never letting abyone get close enough to hurt you really struck a chord with me. I literally sat here for about 5 minutes after reading that, and I think I realized that I am the same way. I too always have one foot out the door, I'm always expecting something to go wrong. When my MM and I had our "talk" to make things "crystal clear" before getting physical, he said that he wanted to make sure noone got hurt (meaning me, really), I was able to almost promise him in a way that that wouldn't happen...that I wouldn't get hurt. Sure, I might get sad or even cry if things were to end, but I'd never really be devastated bc my history is to RUN RUN RUN whenever I see myself getting close to someone. I've read a lot online, and I think I have learned that I some sort of abandonment issue, which makes the unavailable man, the MM, the perfect target for a relationship, bc he's predictable, and I can run before I think he's going to. Unlike you, I don't quite act like I don't care, but I do think that if I don't care, you can't hurt me... So, I do my damnest not to.

 

Morgana - I'm right there with you. I too would do anything to have my MM be able to be a permanent part of my life, and I of his....but that can't happen, so I'd do just about anything to have him in any way, even for a situation as screwed up and drama-full as a relationship like the ones we all have.

[kiababy]

Morgana, regarding the distance issue - if things worked out and he did come back to you....how would you be able to make it work? Would you consider moving? Would he? Have you two ever had that conversation, or any other conversation for that matter about a possible future down the road?

 

Once my MM made the statement "In a perfect world, we would be together"....but that never came up again, instread, he loves to talk about all the things that would happen if we were 'neighbours'. Our only 'plan' for the future is that he very much wants us to go away for a weekend together.

[morgana]

tiara - glad you sent the 2nd part of your message. i'm glad to know there are other sentimental "fools" out there like me. i'm still holding onto the hope that there is hope that he will be back in time. but as time passes the hope fades and i know eventually, i'll meet someone new, or just give in. i know he still loves me and that i'm still on his mind a lot. i know that in order for him to give his marriage an honest try, i need to back off. but i also know that in reality the problems with his marriage existed well before i came into the picture and that my existence was only a symtom and not the "disease" that they face. i also know that regardless, he won't forget about me easily. if i drop out of sight it will make that easier for him and i know it, but the stubborness in me wants to hang in there and not give up without a fight. and i can be terribly stubborn, a trait which had it's good points and bad. so it's hard for me to know where to draw the proverbial line of when too much contact is too much. i know he'll tell me in some way or another. my boss who's a good friend has always told me that i just don't know when to give up something he likes in me as an employee but as he reminds me doesn't always work out so well on a personal level. he says i always need to get hit over the head with things so i know when to stop bashing my head against the wall in vain.

 

i wish there was some magic 8 ball with the answer. my kids have broken mine, so i'm never sure if it's telling the truth or not!

[morgana]

kiababy - the distance thing would be a problem, at least for a while. i would have a much easier time finding a new job where he is and would consider moving, but there's a lot with my kids i'd have to figure out. my ex is ironically, from the same area as my MM and he'd always talked about moving back there some day. his family is all still there. but now that he's getting married to someone from here, who knows. i've taked briefly with my kids about moving since when i get frustrated with my job, or our wonderful weather, i do consider moving south. they weren't thrilled with the idea (big surprise). if my kids were older, i'd pick up and move in a minute.

 

in the meantime... i only have my kids half time so i could split my time here and there. i've seen people do it. in fact, until recently, my bosses boss did the exact same thing. for years he spent 4 days here and 3 days with his family (ironically also in the same part of the US as my MM).

 

we did talk about the future, never anything certain, but he was the one on a number of occassions that brought it up. he's the one that first took the chance and said he thought we had a future together. and we talked about the times when we'd be seeing more of each other in person and not just electronically. he travels frequently and if my job transitions more into what i think it will, i'll be spending more time in his area anyway, and i also have a nice boss who would probably let me telecommute since a lot of what i do is through email and phone anyway. odd since i'm a counselor at a university but one of my main responsibilities is with our alumni (large population in his area) and i communicate with most of them electronically and not in person.

[kiababy]

KMTiara - I can surely identify with RUN RUN RUN - I remember one guy who left me a voicemail, a text message and an email, all within a one hour period. I was so freaked about it that I couldn't even listen to the voicemail or read the email or text message, I deleted them all. I get this terrible trapped feeling and I don't know how to deal with it. A normal person would probably laugh it off or know what to say. When it comes to 'dissing' someone, I've got a million of 'em....but when someone really likes me a great fear comes over me.

 

MM on the other hand has been known to call me in the middle of the night drunk, text message me up to 6 times a day, and call me 3 or 4 times. And I can't get enough of him. I'm addicted to everything about him and when I hear his voice....I just melt

 

Morgana, can't you 'hang in there' as his friend and just respect his request to let him work things out? Don't put him in a postition where he'll have to say 'stop contacting me', I think he'll appreciate you a lot more if you don't push him.

[morgana]

kia - yes, i can hang in there as his friend, which is what i'm hoping to do. no talk about how much i want to see him, etc. the funny thing is, as i think i mentioned when i asked if he wanted me to stop saying i love you he said no that he loved me. and i asked about calling next week and he said yes. i know, he could have just been saying that. but when i've asked him about calling before, when everything started happening, there would always be this long pause and he would say that i could call when i wanted or if i needed to. this time there was no hesitation it was an immediate yes. but in any case i'm going to try really hard not to push it because you're right, i don't want to put him in a position where he'll have to tell me. and i know he will if he needs to

 

it's such a strange situation i don't know quite how to explain it. i truly believe he feels caught. says he's the one being stupid. says it's not that he doesn't want to be in contact but he can't get in touch with me for fear his wife will find out. and times when i called before even when he was really stressed he said he appreciated me calling. so in some ways it feels like he wants me to call but doesn't want to admit it. don't know if that makes sense and i'll admit maybe i'm just projecting what i want to hear or see. but we used to talk several times a day and i'm going to try to limit things, for now to once a week and see how that goes, and if that feels like too much i'll back off furter. and i know with past broken relationships, granted they were a while ago, there was always that unspoken feeling that i could get that my contact really wasn't wanted. not the case this time.

 

but .... you are right. i need to let him do what he needs to do, i know what will happen if i push too hard, but easier said than done. and i know if his marriage ends he'll need to make that decision on his own, or with his wife, but not with me. my head knows it, my heart's not quite so willing to follow my head's advice!

 

thanks! it's always good to have someone tell me something my heart doesn't want to listen to!

[kiababy]

First - Morgana, your heart had better listen to your head if you want to stay in his life at all. Give him space and give him time - that's what he asked you for. Once a week is perfect. Men need time to miss you. Once a week contact is perfect to start - if he sounds happy to hear from you then accept that for what it is, not an invitation to call every chance you get and start questioning him.

 

We finally got a chance to have a real conversation today. He was so sorry he couldn't see me all last week, or talk - we only got to text message - but he didn't have a vehicle and had to work with his boss.

 

So I told him about the phone calls, he was surprised of course and wanted to know what the number was. I told him the area code and first three numbers off the top of my head. He assured me that wasn't what was going on, that it couldn't be anyone connected to his wife. He promised he wouldn't let anything like that happen but was worried too, because I still don't know who called.

[kiababy]

Yesterday my kids were away so I went to bed early because today was to be my first day back at work after vacation. I usually forward my cell phone to my house at night but last night I didn't bother and around 1:50 a.m. I heard my cell beepimg because I had a text message. It was from MM saying: Can you please pick me up from downtown?

 

Earlier in the day he told me he was going to a concert with a buddy. I text messaged him back to call me and he said that he was at the bar in a strip club, his buddy was in the V.I.P. room getting lapdances, and he wanted me to bring him home with me. He does this at least once a month when he's out with friends and he's been drinking; calls me in the middle of the night to come and rescue him. In the past I always told him to have his buddies take him home, but the last time he called before this, he wouldn't take no for an answer - and actually got in his van and drove an HOUR to my house. I was upset about that because a) he was drunk and I was terrified he would be killed or kill someone else; and b) my kids were home and I never have men over when my kids are in the house.

 

Well, that time I let him in, made up the couch for him (I slept on the floor beside him), and woke him up early and sent him home before my babies woke up. He swore he would never drive drunk like that again, and I promised I would always be there for him if he needed me.......

 

This time I was alone at home, so I got in my car at 2:00 a.m. and drove the 40 minutes downtown to find him, on the sidewalk outside the strip club. He was soooo grateful that I came to get him, and excited and happy to be going home with me. I have to admit as much as I dislike alcohol - I don't drink - he's the sweetest, happiest drunk I've ever seen. He actually appears to be sleepy, not drunk .....but as I said before, I worry so much about his drinking.

 

Anyway, I called in sick - my boss is playing in a golf tournament today anyway and didn't mind that I'm not coming in; and drove him home this morning. I've wondered before about his need for me to come and 'rescue' him, and at other times he totally dominates me...the dynamics of this relationship are so complicated. I feel an intense need to protect him, I don't know why that is.

[fanou22]

I would imagine because he is younger than you.

 

Maybe? What do you think?

 

How was your vacation?

[kiababy]

Hmmmm....a while back Debster thought that I might be kind of like a 'mother' figure to him because of the age difference; but I strongly disagreed because he is the dominant personality in this relationship 90% of the time. He says he finds my age a turn-on, but when he's with me he doesn't notice the age difference at all - I look much younger than I am, and I still have a little-girl voice and get mistaken for my poor 14 year-old son whose voice hasn't changed yet, when I answer the phone.

 

MM has a great relationship with his mother, and I am his first older woman, in the past he always went for 18 - early 20's girls, so it's not like there's some kind of pattern here.

'

 

I think it's more that I don't want anything to happen to him.

[overseas2004]

I cant believe that you guys really believe the lines you are getting fed by your MM.

 

I love the guy who sleeps in his basement... poor bastard....but then he sneaks up once in a while.

 

Oh actually no the one with the small wife is a good one too. His penis hurts her.

 

 

You guys actually believe the crap you are being fed. Wake up and smell the coffee. Do you really think a wife would make her husband sleep in teh basement but hang on to him for dear life if he wanted to leave???

 

Well to be fair I was stupid like this four years ago. I had a MM whom I dated for one whole year. We got to be together constantly because he was seperated from wifey for 7 years. He told me that he had just never bothered getting a divorce because he made more government pay as long as he was married and she lived stateside. He told me she was a real b**** and had made his life miserable. He said he rarely ever saw her and had not had sex with her in years.

 

The only truth in this whole story was that they lived apart for 7 years. But guess what ... every now and then she would come visit him or he would go to California to visit her. He managed to keep his first visit a secret because he said he was going to see his parents in Texas. Six months later when she came to visit him he told me that he had invited her to come so he could ask for a divorce. He even gave me a engagement ring.

 

After she left, I came to the apartment where he lived. When I got into bed that night I found an I love you card under his pillow. I vividely remember most of the words My dearest hubbie, you are the light of my life and my reason for living. What a b**** ay? I later found more cards in his underwear drawer and other strategic places.

 

I quickly figured out that I was fed a pack of lies and left his sorry ass in the dirt.

 

I suggest you do the same. You are hurting yourself and these wives who don't deserve this sorry sack of sh*** who lies like this. I hope you realize that this intrigue that you are living through right now doesn't hold a candle to a real adult committed and loving relationship. YOu are on a one way road to get hurt and nothing else can happen out of this.

 

Good luck

 

Overseas2004

[kiababy]

WHAT A DAY....this morning when I got into work there was a message waiting for me from the guy I like to call MM #2 - the guy who is getting a divorce. I've posted many times that he's changed, he's a wreck etc. due to all the trauma related to his divorce (if you're just tuning in, nothing to do with me!). I had also told him back in May that I was going to be 'taking a break' from dating. Well, he's hung in there and kept in touch with me and took me out for lunch today.

 

I had a half day off so we spent two hours together, talked over tons of stuff. He is a LOT better than he was two months ago, calmer, has things in perspective, but still stressed obviously. I do still have some feelings for him and we made plans for him to come over for dinner next week when my kids are away, and stay over at my house since he lives 2 hours away. We're also planning a camping trip - no kids - before summer's end.

 

On my way home I received a phone call from someone else in my past: a police officer I met years ago when I went to the police station to file a restraining order against my ex-husband. He would stop by my house occasionally to 'check up on me', and stop in at the bar where I worked late at night - this was before I landed my office job.

 

We started a friendship that lasted 2 years until one day, one thing led to another and we ended up becoming involved. Since then, he transferred to another city, got married and has two small children. So today he called because he was passing through town (he's an investigator now), and invited me out for coffee. We talked about old times and low and behold he wanted to reminisce about all of the 'fun times' we had.....I laughed along with him, didn't add any details of my own, but I knew where the conversation was headed. Sure enough, he thought it would be 'fun' to hook up next time he was in town.

 

I didn't answer that one, but left the door open for dinner etc. He just finished training for some kind of police force games so he looked really really good - but I'm done with 'taken' guys.

 

So, I think I'll give MM #2 another chance. He was very much back to his old self and I really miss that. The problem with him is that he lives too far away - 2 hours - and he's very unreliable. With me anyway.

 

As I've said before, numero uno MM has always been 100% reliable, I can always count on him to be there if he says he will.

[kiababy]

I'm a wreck today - I told MM#2 that he could stay over at my house tonight, but yesterday I received a text message from current MM which said "Happy one year!!!" He remembered our one year anniversary without any reminder from me. That meant the world to me.

 

I thought I would give MM#2 another chance because he IS in the process of getting a divorce, but my heart's just not in it.

This afternoon he called and said "You forgot about me...." because I said I would call him this morning and confirm that I took my kids over to their sister's place for the night so I would have the house to myself.

 

I told him she was busy and couldn't have them over (not true). So he asked if we could do it tomorrow night because in the afternoon he has a BIG MEETING with his ex and both lawyers to settle some property issues, and it would be 'perfect timing' to be able to spend time with me afterwards.

 

I felt like crap because I couldn't come up with another excuse to cancel it without it sounding exactly like what it was: an attempt for me to weasel out of it......

 

When I saw him Friday everything was great, but I'm starting to feel a little pressured. He knows I see other people, but I never told him about MM because the time is never right. He'll be telling me about the awful stuff going on between his soon-to-be ex and himself, and then he'll just stop and say "enough about me, what's going on with you?"

 

When is the right moment to say: "I've met someone else and I'm really really into him ......"?