MM made his decision

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

I set myself back even more by digging up his blog today to see if he said anything about his marriage. Thankfully no. Funny enough, though, I need to steal a phrase from his post a couple days ago:

 

It's also a reminder that healing -- physical and otherwise -- is a long process that can only occur one day at a time.

One day...one step. At least for me Edited November 26, 2012 by OnceMoreWithFeeling

[waterwoman]

I'm still not quite there. But I meet with her a week from today. I hope that will be the point that I can fully let go and walk out the door with him fully behind me.

 

May I just say that I think that is a brave and healthy thing to do. For you and for her.

 

Regarding the renewal of vows, I confess that when I first found out about OW I wanted H and I to renew our vows, I wanted to 'let the world know he had committed to me'. Heap of crap that would have been at the time . I had to acccept that while yes, he had gone NC with her and chosen to be with me, she was still in his head and his heart. Renewal of vows would have been a pretty sticking plaster. In the end we even let our 20th anniversary pass very quietly last month because it wasn't right to throw a big party - we celebrated it quietly and meaningfully, but no guests or a big hullabulooo. We may well quietly renew our vows - but we've been through the process and done (some of) the work and are still doing so.

 

She is clutching at straws - but that doesn't mean they can't reconcile, it just won't be instant or easy.

 

Good luck with your meeting with his wife, and best of luck with moving on x

[veryhappy]

I will say it again. Do not meet with the wife. There's nothing for you in it, and she doesn't need you. She already wants the man, since they're renewing the vows. Your truth makes no difference to them. She'll just use the meeting to convince herself that you are uglier, dumber, less sophisticated, fill in the blanks with whatever makes a woman feel less jealousy and more contempt towards a rival.

 

I know renewing the vows punched you in the stomach, but it is really laughable. It only shows both of them are reactive people. Normal people would say "hey we'll work on it and if we make it let's renew out vows in one year". There was a BW I think waterwoman(?) who said she stopped wearing her ring and wanted a new one when she felt they were reconciled. That's a healthy reaction. Talking about renewing the vows so early in the process to me is a sign of not addressing the real issue. I could go out and buy a size 4 dress thinking I'll fit in it in a while. If I don't lose the weight to fit in it, what is the dress good for?

 

He did love you as much as he could. Right now though he's almost not that man. He's into committed husband mode, wanting his M to work. You need to rip yourself off from the ilusions in your mind. Realize he has nothing to offer and if he ever will, it will take so long for him to become available that the only thing to do is move on.

[frozensprouts]

I will say it again. Do not meet with the wife. There's nothing for you in it, and she doesn't need you. She already wants the man, since they're renewing the vows. Your truth makes no difference to them. She'll just use the meeting to convince herself that you are uglier, dumber, less sophisticated, fill in the blanks with whatever makes a woman feel less jealousy and more contempt towards a rival.

 

I know renewing the vows punched you in the stomach, but it is really laughable. It only shows both of them are reactive people. Normal people would say "hey we'll work on it and if we make it let's renew out vows in one year". There was a BW I think waterwoman(?) who said she stopped wearing her ring and wanted a new one when she felt they were reconciled. That's a healthy reaction. Talking about renewing the vows so early in the process to me is a sign of not addressing the real issue. I could go out and buy a size 4 dress thinking I'll fit in it in a while. If I don't lose the weight to fit in it, what is the dress good for?

 

He did love you as much as he could. Right now though he's almost not that man. He's into committed husband mode, wanting his M to work. You need to rip yourself off from the ilusions in your mind. Realize he has nothing to offer and if he ever will, it will take so long for him to become available that the only thing to do is move on.

 

hmmmm....have to say I couldn't disagree more with this post

 

in order to understand why his wife may want to meet with you, i think you have to have been in her shoes...she may want to meet with you for a a lot of different reasons...

(a) she may want to know more about the person who her husband chose to cheat with, and what it was about you that he found so alluring

(b) she may see it as closing that chapter of their lives ( well, at least maybe her life)

© she may be trying to find out if he husband is being honest with her about what he says went on in your relationship with him

(d) maybe she has some things to say that she needs to get off her chest

(e) maybe she wants to "forgive" you

(f) maybe she's just like you, a human being who wants to know what the h@ll went on in her life and why it went the way it did...she wants answers, and may see meeting with you as a way to get those answers

 

some other women and betrayed wives meet and find out that the person they have felt badly towards turns out to really be a nice person. For some, "humanizing" the other person makes it easier to let go. She may have built you up in her mind to be some horrible person, and when she meets you and finds out you are not, it will be easier for her to move on in her life. If she finds out her husband has told her lies, she will have to deal with that, but it will help her to make decisions about her life. Maybe it will help you too...if you see her as a real person and not just a name or as "married man's wife", you'll see the concrete results of the affair...see just what her husband's cheating did to her...it may give you added insight into what type of a guy he really is, and you'll see for yourself how you were lucky enough to "dodge a bullet" by ending things with him...

 

chances are, his wife is no a horrible person, nor a great person...she's probably just an average person...same as the rest of humanity...meet with her, and use he meeting as another step in healing from the affair...you could use it as a chance to have some of your questions answered too

[veryhappy]

I'm not saying a BW is a horrible person. I'm saying that in such a meeting the two parts fill two very specific roles - OW and BW - that is a dramatic setup, and I personally don't like drama. Part of my reason of speeding up my A's end as much as I didn't want to let him go.

 

The OW for a M where the spouses decide to reconcile is not important in herself in the end. The particular OW doesn't matter. As a result of my A, I know that if I'll ever be cheated on, I won't meet with the other side or dig too deep on that end.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

May I just say that I think that is a brave and healthy thing to do. For you and for her.

 

Regarding the renewal of vows, I confess that when I first found out about OW I wanted H and I to renew our vows, I wanted to 'let the world know he had committed to me'. Heap of crap that would have been at the time . I had to acccept that while yes, he had gone NC with her and chosen to be with me, she was still in his head and his heart. Renewal of vows would have been a pretty sticking plaster. In the end we even let our 20th anniversary pass very quietly last month because it wasn't right to throw a big party - we celebrated it quietly and meaningfully, but no guests or a big hullabulooo. We may well quietly renew our vows - but we've been through the process and done (some of) the work and are still doing so.

 

She is clutching at straws - but that doesn't mean they can't reconcile, it just won't be instant or easy.

 

Good luck with your meeting with his wife, and best of luck with moving on x

 

I appreciate you adding your perspective here. Yes, that's how I feel about it, too. I hope they do more than patchwork. At least then something good would come out of all this heartbreak.

[frozensprouts]

I'm not saying a BW is a horrible person. I'm saying that in such a meeting the two parts fill two very specific roles - OW and BW - that is a dramatic setup, and I personally don't like drama. Part of my reason of speeding up my A's end as much as I didn't want to let him go.

 

The OW for a M where the spouses decide to reconcile is not important in herself in the end. The particular OW doesn't matter. As a result of my A, I know that if I'll ever be cheated on, I won't meet with the other side or dig too deep on that end.

 

things usually only become "drama" if we allow them to become so...

 

if the OP wants to meet with her ex'es wife, she has the ability to end the "drama" by simply getting up and walking out if things get too uncomfortable...it's all a matter of perspective and taking back the control over her life

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

 

in order to understand why his wife may want to meet with you, i think you have to have been in her shoes...she may want to meet with you for a a lot of different reasons...

 

I've assumed it could be a lot of these reasons. But my main reason for agreeing to meet comes down to that she asked for it. I did wrong by her, so I'll answer her questions or let her speak her mind so she can move forward however is best for her. Putting myself in her shoes, I would probably do the same. I want to meet the woman who had his heart first and appreciate her strength and commitment and let them be.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

I'm not saying a BW is a horrible person. I'm saying that in such a meeting the two parts fill two very specific roles - OW and BW - that is a dramatic setup, and I personally don't like drama. Part of my reason of speeding up my A's end as much as I didn't want to let him go.

 

Based on how he described her, I don't expect a lot of drama. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I assume she's intending to get more out of this than just giving me a scolding in public. They've made their choices and she wants to heal. And so do I.

[Tenacity]

I am sure that the renewed vows decision hit you like a sucker punch. I agree with what most of the others posted though... it really is meaningless right now. Like putting a band aid over a gaping wound. As much as it is possible for a person in my position to understand the reaction of the BS (I'm assuming this idea came from her) to renew vows, I can see how that might be something she would want, though.

 

If they recommit to each other it will take time and a lot of work. It won't be something that will magically happen because of a ceremony.

 

I commend you for agreeing to meet with the BS because she asked you to. It will be hard for you but you are doing what she needs.

[Pierre]

 

I commend you for agreeing to meet with the BS because she asked you to. It will be hard for you but you are doing what she needs.

 

 

I think they should meet and clear the air.

 

OW should also apologize and move on. This will help the healing of both women.

[truthbetold]

I think I'll steal my post back now

 

A mutual friend told me that xMM and his W are already planning to renew their vows. I guess it was an easy one to work out then? No need to rebuild trust and make sure they're both fully onboard? I can't imagine making that leap without major counseling first. But alright...

 

To offer a different perspective I think the ones that are saying it's meaningless may also be off. The reason being, why don't they think it's a "sham" and manipulation when the MM offers to marry the OW or plan a future when he's still married himself? It seems when it works for the benefit of the OW it's all good. But anything else is just delusional on the part of the MM, and in reality that may not be the case.

 

There was an OW who said if her MM had sex with the wife that would be a no-no. So when he told her that he did and she went ballistic, she then thought he's being sincere in saying he now stopped having sex with her instead of the more likely scenario that he just "stopped" telling his OW when he does because of the drama. That's what I mean about poo-pooing the notion that they could be sincere in renewing their vows. People tend to want to look at things that best suit their advantage.

 

Could it be a sham and a farce? Sure, but you don't know that for face. Marriage in many ways should be a "leap of faith" because you're going to have trials and tribulations that test the marriage. So there's no way to "test it all out" while living together or something. So perhaps in their mind it's the vows and commitment that they want to build upon and they're taking that leap of faith first and to rebuild.

 

I'm sorry you're hurting but hoping that them doing a renewal and getting all the supposed support that tells you it's a sham and believing that which in turns gives you a false hope to cling to, would seem to be more of a disservice to you. Hoping their marriage fails only keeps YOU stuck longer in limbo and it would be best emotionally for you to move on. If you frame this that their marriage will work then YOU can be free to move on and discover happiness. Staying stuck in thoughts about them is guaranteed to not bring happiness. I wish you peace in healing.

[Pierre]

I can see saying you're sorry the wife was hurt, but apologizing for participating in the EMR just seems silly.

 

Silly? Why?

 

OP did not know the guy was married?

 

BTW, the betrayed wife could also apologized to the OW for the actions of her husband.

 

Nothing wrong with an apologies.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Pierre

[Tenacity]

why don't they think it's a "sham" and manipulation when the MM offers to marry the OW or plan a future when he's still married himself? It seems when it works for the benefit of the OW it's all good. But anything else is just delusional on the part of the MM, and in reality that may not be the case.

 

Oh, but I do in fact know (not think - know!) it was a "sham" for the MM to make promises for a future with an OW while still married, and I suspect the OP does too. That's the lesson many of us learned. The hard way.

 

(I'm responding here as one of the people who said it was "meaningless" to renew vows so quickly after the affair ended)

 

Marriage in many ways should be a "leap of faith" because you're going to have trials and tribulations that test the marriage. So there's no way to "test it all out" while living together or something. So perhaps in their mind it's the vows and commitment that they want to build upon and they're taking that leap of faith first and to rebuild.

 

I would totally agree with the above, and with all that you are saying, except for one (really big) thing in this case. The H just had a very serious emotional and physical affair with another woman. So they had already "tested out" their first set of vows which clearly didn't stick. I can't imagine taking another "leap of faith" given this. In fact I can't even imagine that they have had time to let all the emotion die down to the point of really being able to think about this rationally at all.

 

I would think it would take a lot of work to reestablish trust and repair the marriage so that both partners can be happy in the marriage and avoid something like this happening in the future.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to renew vows mere days and weeks after the affair was revealed.

 

But you are right - we can't know the reason behind it, and it isn't important anyway.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

Could it be a sham and a farce? Sure, but you don't know that for face. Marriage in many ways should be a "leap of faith" because you're going to have trials and tribulations that test the marriage. So there's no way to "test it all out" while living together or something. So perhaps in their mind it's the vows and commitment that they want to build upon and they're taking that leap of faith first and to rebuild.

 

I've thought about that, just not that articulately -- yes, I can see that being his mindset. In this case, I hope so.

[Tenacity]

Silly? Why?

 

OP did not know the guy was married?

 

BTW, the betrayed wife could also apologized to the OW for the actions of her husband.

 

Nothing wrong with an apologies.

 

I am trying to come up with a reason that the betrayed wife should apologize to the OW because her husband cheated, and I'm utterly failing.

 

But I see your point about apologizing for all of the pain it caused. I apologized to the BS but did not specify what I was apologizing for - I just said "I'm sorry". (For the affair, for hurting her, for all the pain, for the whole mess - all of it). I am quite sure she knew what I was apologizing for.

[Tenacity]

I've thought about that, just not that articulately -- yes, I can see that being his mindset. In this case, I hope so.

 

Do you think it was her decision, his decision, or a mutual decision to do the vow renewals?

[jja470]

Silly? Why?

Because some people don't care who they hurt as they dilly dally their way through a pseudo life.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

Do you think it was her decision, his decision, or a mutual decision to do the vow renewals?

 

My guess is him, but it's just a guess.

[truthbetold]

Oh, but I do in fact know (not think - know!) it was a "sham" for the MM to make promises for a future with an OW while still married, and I suspect the OP does too. That's the lesson many of us learned. The hard way.

 

(I'm responding here as one of the people who said it was "meaningless" to renew vows so quickly after the affair ended)

 

 

 

I would totally agree with the above, and with all that you are saying, except for one (really big) thing in this case. The H just had a very serious emotional and physical affair with another woman. So they had already "tested out" their first set of vows which clearly didn't stick. I can't imagine taking another "leap of faith" given this. In fact I can't even imagine that they have had time to let all the emotion die down to the point of really being able to think about this rationally at all.

 

I would think it would take a lot of work to reestablish trust and repair the marriage so that both partners can be happy in the marriage and avoid something like this happening in the future.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems like a knee-jerk reaction to renew vows mere days and weeks after the affair was revealed.

 

But you are right - we can't know the reason behind it, and it isn't important anyway.

 

Understood and agreed. But my point is unfortunately (for the OP especially) he may "regret" the affair, in which case the "leap of faith" *could* still apply. Not necessarily the case but it is possible. I agree with the much work needed etc and no easy fix. It may not be a popular choice but perhaps it's the choice of the married couple which of course is between them.

 

If I'm correct this was a 4 month affair? If so, they may be more "repairable" than a years or decades long one but I'm not those people. I just think if their decision is to repair their marriage that's between them. One poster comes to mind is ThomasB and his lack of compassion for his OW ticks many OW off and I don't understand why his view needs to be silenced as that was "his" experience. Perhaps the OP's MM feels the same as ThomasB, absolutely? No, of course not. But it's possible. In which case ThomasB has stated he would have walked over fire if it would have eased his wife's pain. Small comfort, maybe but not for them.

 

There are no rules that a couple needs to follow in their road to (or in this case back to) love. What works for one couple may absolutely tear another apart. Love and the decisions made within that union are as unique as the people involved. IMO only of course.

 

OP again, I'm sorry for your pain. I see that you acknowledged it could be the case for your MM feeling this way. Again I wish you healing and not to be stuck in the past on the could have beens.

[veryhappy]

I'm rhetorical here...how would a man who betrayed the W, fell in love and betrayed the person he fell in love with be in any mental capacity of making a lifelong commitment to the W? What in his recent behavior points to him being dependable? Or that he knows what he's doing? Oh, the A was just fog. Thick, sensual fog that lifted. The brain chemistry is restored.

 

I believe MM like these should be locked in the basement (I think mercy joked about that) and let to live on water for a while contemplating who they really are.

 

We have no way of knowing if this M will survive or not. If anything, OP is genuinely wishing that it does work. What the critical of us were saying was not that renewing the vows is a sham, as it was understood, but that it sounds like a very reactive move in a very unstable situation.

[Pierre]

But I see your point about apologizing for all of the pain it caused. I apologized to the BS but did not specify what I was apologizing for - I just said "I'm sorry". (For the affair, for hurting her, for all the pain, for the whole mess - all of it). I am quite sure she knew what I was apologizing for.

 

Nice, that is a sign of greatness and kindness.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

I believe MM like these should be locked in the basement (I think mercy joked about that) and let to live on water for a while contemplating who they really are.

 

Yes! Can we make that happen?

[Pierre]

I'm rhetorical here...how would a man who betrayed the W, fell in love and betrayed the person he fell in love with be in any mental capacity of making a lifelong commitment to the W? What in his recent behavior points to him being dependable? Or that he knows what he's doing?

 

 

Exactly!

 

Promises from people that cheat are meaningless. One could also say: Why so many OWs believe the words of these men?

[truthbetold]

I'm rhetorical here...how would a man who betrayed the W, fell in love and betrayed the person he fell in love with be in any mental capacity of making a lifelong commitment to the W? What in his recent behavior points to him being dependable? Or that he knows what he's doing? Oh, the A was just fog. Thick, sensual fog that lifted. The brain chemistry is restored.

 

I believe MM like these should be locked in the basement (I think mercy joked about that) and let to live on water for a while contemplating who they really are.

 

We have no way of knowing if this M will survive or not. If anything, OP is genuinely wishing that it does work. What the critical of us were saying was not that renewing the vows is a sham, as it was understood, but that it sounds like a very reactive move in a very unstable situation.

 

I never said anything different. And I'm not "defending" this MM actions if it sounds like I am. I believe in people having good boundaries and understanding temptation, which this MM did not. I agree the marriage is not some model for admiration and inspiration. However it may not be as bleak as "some" are trying to paint. I just find it sad that on one hand OW will believe in the MM wanting to marry them or have a future (i.e. a commitment) whereas he HAS proven himself unstable in ANY decisions or he wouldn't have had the affair in the first place. Honestly it's best that the OP moves on from this and any other man with poor boundaries if she would want happiness in love.

 

If what I said doesn't resonate with the OP she can ignore and take what applies in her situation. She did say it's possible he may feel the way that ThomasB did. That's all I was saying. I just thought it could be dangerous for her to believe that it's all fake and going to implode and he will come running to find her. That's staying stuck whereas she should empower herself to not look back, leave them and their marriage in the past where it belongs.