What is the right thing to do?

[Henni]

OK. Posting here to try and get some objective opinions on my situation. I am having an A with a MM, for the first time in my life. I never thought I would do this, I'm usually governed by very strong principals which include not being with anyone unavailable, not only married but anyone who has anything with anyone else, girlfriend, seeing someone else, or simply too soon after a break up. I didn't expect this, but maybe I also think this is a special situation. Maybe it is. Maybe I'm fooling myself and everyone thinks what they have is 'special'. I really don't want to damage my self respect. I tend to give out a lot of energy and love to friends and especially lovers. I've been lonely. We work together. There is an understanding and chemistry that others have noticed and that feels really good and fairly uncommon. MM doesn't relate well to many people, he is awkward, quiet and socially uncertain of himself, but that's got much better since something happened between us. I think maybe he has been depressed about his marriage and himself for a long time. There have been some major emotional breakthroughs for him through this relationship. We laugh a lot, and I think we are completely honest with each other. I am not capable of games, I find it hard to filter what I say and generally end up just saying exactly what's in my head. It's been three months. He's asked his wife for divorce, and there are two kids. One just starting college, one in 6th grade.

 

I have a real fear of hurting people, of being the OW, of hurting my career, and of my heart being broken. Mostly I have a fear of losing my self respect, and I'm focussing on that for now, until he is moved out and has spent about 6 months living on his own. He says he hasn't shared a room with his wife in 10 years. He is there only for the kids. He didn't see a way out, and she has threatened D many times over the years, in front of the kids, as a way to get her own way in any argument. I have known them both through work for about 18 months. They are a strange couple, many people who have worked with them on various projects don't realise they are married. There has never been any physical contact publicly between them, they don't sit together at meetups or meetings in work, and people comment on their strange relationship. About a year ago, long before anything happened, she started being really nasty to me, suddenly and without warning. I didn't understand it at the time. Now I guess I can see reasons, me and the MM just got on too well, and although she shows little affection for him and seems to get angry when everyone else is having fun working, it also seems that she cuts off anyone who might become a friend to him. He has no friends. None. We talked about some stuff and it was the first time in 20 years that he had talked to anyone. It's heavy stuff emotionally, she is from a strange, sexist religious background and thinks women who laugh with men are trying to manipulate them sexually. It's quite screwed up. Now, he has told her he wants a D, and she said that she agrees. He has never said this to her before but instead seems like him and the kids have spent their whole lives trying to prevent any explosion from her, trying to keep her happy and keep the peace. They have become a little troop around her, one is 18 the other in 6th grade. He loves them very much, perhaps tries to love them enough for two parents. I've told him to go to a therapist and get advice on how to handle it with his kids, and make sure he is doing the right thing, that I don't know if I will be around because 3 months is too early to tell anyway, that I don't want to be the reason he leaves, that he has to work on the emotional stuff and not go straight from one relationship to the next, and I've tried to be a friend and help him have someone to talk to, but I also told him that I don't want to be a soft place to land when the sh*t hits the fan. I've been thinking I should not sleep with him again until he's moved out. This makes sense and he basically came up with the same thing this morning after I said I was scared of damaging my self respect, he also says I should be more selfish. The problem is in practise, this is really, really hard. There is such a strong instinct to reach out to him. I guess I want to hear if it sounds like i'm being a fool, if this all sounds cliche, or what those who've had A, and who have ended up with a D'ed man at the end think of this and how i'm handling it. I'm not religious myself but I was brought up Catholic, not extremist but my parents are still together as are my married siblings, all with their first marriage. I have no personal experience of marriage break ups but it seems to me that this marriage should end, and I think that's why I ended up here. Sorry for the long post, just processing. Thanks for your thoughts.

[BetrayedH]

Without going into detail, the best thing is to leave this man be until his divorce is final and even then, he should have a year to heal before bringing anyone else into the picture. That's what is recommended. The question is how far you want to stray from that recommendation. You've obviously already broken that line of thought big time. Will you continue down that path or go more towards what is the "right thing?"

[mammasita]

I didn't even read your entire post because I don't think its necessary to give you an answer.

 

The only person that will end up hurt in a situation like this is YOU. I second the motion for you to leave him alone until his divorce is FINAL. Until then, nothing is guaranteed and from everything I've read here and seen IRL, the married person will always choose their husband/wife.......and even if they did choose the OM/OW - why would you want to be with them???

[alexandria35]

You seem to view yourself as his rescuer. You describe him as a sad lonely little man who just needed someone like you to come along and save him. There are two sides to every story and even if his marriage is exactly as he tells it, he was a part of it too. If things are as you say they are then he probably has way more baggage and issues then you even realize and sorry but you haven't changed him. When he leaves his marriage he won't be good relationship material for at least a year afterwards however I get the feeling he won't really leave if he doesn't think you will be there to catch his sad little self. I don't see this working out long term unless this MM does a lot of work on himself.

[scatterd]

I also agree you should wait until he is divorced and also give him time after wards. I think you have only heard his side of the story. Your MM and Wife have created their problems together. You really do not know what he is like in a normal relationship.You are seeing his good side only right now.Often OM and OW put it all on their spouse. Read some of these OW and OM stories. Also

welcome to LS.

[TexasCountryGirl]

In reading your post it almost sounds to me as if you are trying to justify this affair ... I am not sure who you are trying to justify it too .. maybe to us the readers ... or maybe to yourself ... I am really not sure.

You talk about this man and almost describe him in a "poor pitiful man" syndrome ... you say he is awkward and has no friends.

 

You say you don't want to damage your self respect ... yet you have already crossed those boundaries! Like it or not, you have already been an active participant of an affair and there isn't much that you can do to change that now.

 

You can't change the past ... however you can change the future!

[Artie Lang]

sounds like he's telling you all the right things and you're eating it up.

 

furthermore, all those good qualities you described about yourself went out the window as soon as you let this d*uchebag into your life. now they sound like a punchline.

 

do yourself a favor and read HeartBrokeinNY's thread. maybe that'll open your eyes a little, because that's the most likely outcome for you.

[whichwayisup]

This is a man who is never going to leave and divorce his wife, if things have been that bad in the past 10 years, they would have divorced already. Couples that are unhappy, DO divorce all the time! He is (selfishly) using you on some level to meet needs that aren't getting met at home by his wife.

 

You think you can 'save' him and he has nobody else to talk to but you. Sorry, but that's a load of crap he's serving you and you're eating it up like he's the king.

 

Do NOT have sex with him, let alone flirt and have an emotional affair with him.

 

You all work together so this makes your situation sticky too. If you don't want to lose your reputation, respect for yourself, respect from others that you work with, then stop hanging out with him and crossing lines. People aren't stupid, and neither is his wife.

 

Date him if/when that time comes he is divorced, until then, back off and detach from him.

[Pierre]

OP

 

Your story has been posted in this forum many times before.

 

Your expertise in the state of his marriage is also a common thread.

 

The not living together and impending divorce is also part of the story for most single OWs.

 

Now you need to figure out how most affairs end. That story has also been posted many times. Maybe you will be different, but the odds are against you.

 

Good luck!

[Henni]

Thanks everyone, you are helping me come to terms with this. I need those home truths, I know it, and some of your comments are spot on.

 

OP

 

Your story has been posted in this forum many times before.

Your expertise in the state of his marriage is also a common thread.

The not living together and impending divorce is also part of the story for most single OWs.

Now you need to figure out how most affairs end. That story has also been posted many times. Maybe you will be different, but the odds are against you.

Good luck!

 

Thanks Pierre, I haven't posted my story before, I just joined yesterday, but I have responded to one or two others that posted while waiting to see if anyone replied to me. Some of those stories scared me, because the affair stretched out for years. I couldn't handle even another month of this, and it's early days. I know it's not a sustainable situation, but I also know that I have a really hard time letting people get close to me, I have been hurt in the past and in many ways, bad as this situation is, it has helped me...but I know all the cliches, and I don't want to be one.

 

This is a man who is never going to leave and divorce his wife, if things have been that bad in the past 10 years, they would have divorced already.

You think you can 'save' him and he has nobody else to talk to but you. Sorry, but that's a load of crap he's serving you and you're eating it up like he's the king...Date him if/when that time comes he is divorced, until then, back off and detach from him.

 

Whichway - I think I would probably say exactly the same thing to me, if I were you :-). I've had those fears, I've called it off immediately after it first happened, tried to contain it, failed, told myself I'm being an idiot. However, he has started divorce proceedings, and friends whom I trust and who have respect for me unexpectedly advised me not to throw it away, but to wait and see what happens. It surprised and confused me to have this advise from three close friends. I guess it says something about me, because they know me well.

 

sounds like he's telling you all the right things and you're eating it up.

furthermore, all those good qualities you described about yourself went out the window as soon as you let this d*uchebag into your life. now they sound like a punchline.

do yourself a favor and read HeartBrokeinNY's thread. maybe that'll open your eyes a little, because that's the most likely outcome for you.

 

Artie, I read HearBrokeninNY's thread before posting, and responded to the heartache I saw there. I realize I look like an idiot, and that anyone can be when it comes to the heart, but I'm not eating it up, I don't think, I do believe him, essentially, despite the fact that I have real problems trusting anyone, but all those statistics make me think I should walk away, and that's basically what I'm trying to do, I just don't want to be too black and white, because there are a lot of really good things about how he and I interact and understand each other, and if there is an opportunity here for a future, I don't want to miss it. I just need to think about how to go about giving it a chance, and I agree that the best chance is to stop now and wait. Easier said than done though...

 

I think any woman needs to stay away from a man who she senses is needy, needs rescuing, is weak, etc.

 

Something else you need to look at is...........let's go with the assumption that what he has told you about his wife, his marriage is true. What does that say about him, that he would stay in a marriage like that, with a woman like that? ...

I think some men are attracted to strong women, but yet that same thing that attracts them, they grow to resent. They look for what is missing in them, but then when they get it, they don't want it or like it.

You sound like you are a lot stronger than mm, so was his wife..........think about that dynamic.

 

LadyGrey, you are right, but I am not attracted to men that are weak, he is not, he is just lonely, but very successful and respected. In many ways, he is stronger than me, there's quite a bit of mutual 'rescuing' to this. I am far from perfect, but he seems to get and accept my weaknesses, and I think I get and accept his. I don't think he will do anything but try to make this work, even if that does mean waiting a year. I really mean that. I feel that he has respect for himself and for me. About staying in this bad marriage, I asked him that. He said he was brought up to believe that the right thing to do is try to make it work, and he's been doing this, for his kid's sake, feeling that it was better for them to live with both parents. He hadn't really considered that maybe kids don't benefit from being around a bad marriage, but then started reading up on this, and then, asked his wife for a divorce. He hasn't moved out yet though. This is all happening right now. I think what it says about him to stay in this bad marriage is that he is kind of stuck, has been for a long time, and rather misguided about what constitutes the best option for his children. His wife is not what I would describe as strong, she is quite nervous all the time, and ready to freak out. People do tend to describe me as 'strong' though, and what they mean by that is that I am quite direct. I like to laugh and joke but if I think someone is being a dick or bullying others, I can be quite non funny.

 

In reading your post it almost sounds to me as if you are trying to justify this affair ... I am not sure who you are trying to justify it too .. maybe to us the readers ... or maybe to yourself ... I am really not sure.

You talk about this man and almost describe him in a "poor pitiful man" syndrome ... you say he is awkward and has no friends.

You say you don't want to damage your self respect ... yet you have already crossed those boundaries! Like it or not, you have already been an active participant of an affair and there isn't much that you can do to change that now.

You can't change the past ... however you can change the future!

 

Texas - you are right. I am trying to justify this affair, to myself. He is kind of awkward and has no friends, he is also very successful and good at his job, which requires a large brain but not to be the life and soul of the party. I don't think 'all affairs are wrong, period.' I think some marriages are meant to end, and some affairs can help both people involved, while others are destructive. I've also read stories here where people have found the strength to leave bad marriages through the love and support of another. I can see it's the minority, but it is not impossible, and nothing is ever black and white. I'm trying to figure out the grey area in a way that doesn't damage either of us. I want that future to be a good one, either with or without him.

 

I also agree you should wait until he is divorced and also give him time after wards. I think you have only heard his side of the story. Your MM and Wife have created their problems together. You really do not know what he is like in a normal relationship.You are seeing his good side only right now.Often OM and OW put it all on their spouse. Read some of these OW and OM stories. Also

welcome to LS.

 

scatterd - you are so right. I don't know what he's like in a normal relationship. I also don't really know what I'm like in one these days, there has been a lot of water under the bridge for me since I was last in a real, long term relationship. I do know what he's like on a daily basis, we work closely together over 18 months and have traveled with work together for up to a couple of months in total. I know this is nothing compared to a long term relationship, but it is also not a stranger. Neither is his wife, and I take everything he says with a pinch of salt, but I also have my own experiences with his wife, before this happened, and they fit with what he's described. Wishful thinking maybe...I don't know if i'm right or just another idiot making mistakes of the heart.

 

You seem to view yourself as his rescuer. You describe him as a sad lonely little man who just needed someone like you to come along and save him. There are two sides to every story and even if his marriage is exactly as he tells it, he was a part of it too. If things are as you say they are then he probably has way more baggage and issues then you even realize and sorry but you haven't changed him. When he leaves his marriage he won't be good relationship material for at least a year afterwards however I get the feeling he won't really leave if he doesn't think you will be there to catch his sad little self. I don't see this working out long term unless this MM does a lot of work on himself.

 

Alexandria - I can see where you got this impression and it's interesting that I described it that way. In some ways, I do feel sorry for him, in other ways, I feel sorry for myself, but I also respect him deeply and am often impressed by him. He is not a sad little man. He is someone highly intelligent, at least intellectually, who gave up on a real, loving relationship a long time ago and now thinks it's possible with me. He has started looking for a counselor to that work on himself. The point is, we have both come a long way with ourselves in the last three months. We were both also pretty frightened, excited and confused that this happened. Now trying to figure out - OK - so this can't go on - what now?

 

Betrayed and mammasita, you are both right, and basically what I would say to another in my situation too, I think. Maybe I just need to hear this, to validate that stopping this now and waiting is the right thing. The right thing, as far as I'm concerned, is not about whether it's 'right' to have an affair or not, there's no right or wrong to that objectively, I believe, but rather, whether those decisions ultimately lead to happiness, for both, and this also means for his kids, which his happiness depends on.

 

I wonder what you all make of my replies. Perhaps it's still all cliche...has anyone here had an affair with a MM that ended well, with D and a happy new relationship? I know I've read some stories like that here, just wondering what, with the benefit of hindsight, was the right thing to do for them? Thanks very sincerely for taking time to consider this, it helps a lot to share with strangers. I really appreciate it.

[Artie Lang]

you're wrong--ALL AFFAIRS ARE WRONG! this is because they are built on lies and deciet. while i agree that not all marriages are "good" - and should come to an end at some point - having an exit affair is NOT the way to go.

 

while this man might be brilliant, he is a coward! he should have the balls to end it with his wife, if he is so unhappy, and then pursue a legitimate relationship with someone else. for all his intellect, he is not too bright in the relationship department.

 

as I said before, you have compromised your values and beliefs.....the ones you held in such high regard: the ones that define you.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Artie Lang

[Henni]

you're wrong--ALL AFFAIRS ARE WRONG! this is because they are built on lies and deciet. while i agree that not all marriages are "good" - and should come to an end at some point - having an exit affair is NOT the way to go.

 

I can see that is your value system Artie. I don't see any other absolutes here, he's told his wife he wants a divorce, I've told him I don't want her to know about me because it will hurt her and me, since we work together. Having an exit affair is not your way to go, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I have done this, and now i'm focussing on what the right thing to do is now, for both of us, long term. I think an affair, or a marriage, can be more or less built on lies and deceit, as can any relationship with anyone. Whether you've married or not is irrelevant to whether you are honest or not, I believe. When we find someone it's easy to be honest with, to be ourselves with and genuine, that may be someone we marry, or it may not. Some people marry people they idolize, and spend a lot of time trying to be someone they are not for them.

 

while this man might be brilliant, he is a coward! he should have the balls to end it with his wife, if he is so unhappy, and then pursue a legitimate relationship with someone else. for all his intellect, he is not too bright in the relationship department.

 

You may be right about being brilliant but not too bright in the relationship department. That made me smile. I think that's possibly true of both of us, for different reasons. I think 'illegitimate' relationships only exist if we're not talking two consenting adults though....that's my opinion, and I think I'm also entitled to it. Even bad ideas are legitimate.

 

as I said before, you have compromised your values and beliefs.....the ones you held in such high esteem.....the ones that define you.

 

I have questioned my values and beliefs due to this situation with this person, and I have been surprised that I have behaved in this way. It is not something I expected. However, I think I'm also defined by my belief that there are grey areas, and very little black and white, when it comes to right and wrong in relationships, and by my need to constantly question my beliefs and values. I think holding values or beliefs without questioning or changing them, ever, is actually less honest than reassessing them and questioning if they still hold true with new situations. That's part of what defines me.

 

yes ladies & gentlemen, actions do indeed define you. if you disagree with me, then look to the people who've made a positive difference in the world - as well as those with negative influences - their actions speak for their character, and have defined their existence.

 

 

PEACE!!!

 

I am quite happy and not devoid of pride when I say that I honestly think I have made a positive difference in the world. My work is very important to me, and I have worked very hard to be able to solve real problems for people with real problems. I am not of bad character, despite what you say.

 

Peace to you too. I am genuinely curious to know if your view of right and wrong as black and white has brought you peace?

Edited November 9, 2012 by Henni

[Artie Lang]

it has brought me peace because i refuse to put myself in such position in the first place. believe me, i don't look like the guy in the pic.....i've had plenty of offers. it's called having "healthy" boundaries.

 

look, i'm not here to convince you, or anyone to look at things my way. if you really want a future with this person then give him an ultimatum. tell him you will not engage him in an affair.....anymore. tell him you'll wait a certain amount of time to get his sh*t together - as in divorcing his wife - and then you'll talk about a commitment with him. that's all i'm sayin'.

 

that's when you'll know "it's real". when he stops hiding behind his "success" and "awkwardness," and starts acting like a man-- facing his problems head-on.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Artie Lang

[Henni]

Thanks Artie. Your last post sounds spot on and genuine. I hadn't thought of giving him a set time period, as I didn't want to push it either way, but rather say, that's it - don't talk to me unless your circumstances change, and I believe he will agree to this and respect it, even though it's really hard with working together. I don't want to end up waiting around indefinitely though, I don't want to wait around at all, it's so.....degrading! but giving a time period sounds reasonable...maybe. Is this what other posts refer to as D-Day? I didn't get what that meant.

[Henni]

This doesn't match what you posted in your first post. So really which is it?

 

You painted him as some poor weakling who had stayed in a bad marriage all these years with a mean wife.

 

Really............which is it? Or are you trying to make him look better to us here at LS once it was pointed out how you made him sound, (he needs rescuing, weak, etc.).

 

None of us here at LS know the truth but you really need to, so you don't justify and rationalize it.

 

Any any relationship, the first rule is do not bs thyself.

 

you are really making me think here, and that's exactly what I need, so thank you. I suppose I did kind of pity him when I first met him, he didn't laugh much, he didn't talk much, he just did his job, quite successfully, and seemed not too excited about much else. But, there was a strange thing, that was incongruous. He seemed to like that I am the complete opposite. I like to laugh and joke, and we generally work as a team with lots of critical discussion between 10 people or so. He started laughing and joking too. We became odd sort of friends. I began challenging him with direct questions like - how come you don't talk much? What's that all about? and, he answered, quite bravely, and over the course of time, told me many genuine reasons for how he got to be where he's at. I respect that deeply. It's knowing your inner freak and being ok with that, and enjoying being challenged. I don't know if that's interesting for you to know or if it makes any difference at all, but you did get me thinking about this. Somehow, his ability to confront himself in all his weirdness inspires my respect. It also makes me feel more comfortable with my own weirdness, like why I always feel the need to break awkward silences, or respond when someone is in pain. It started from there, and grew. We were already good friends before anything else happened, and had a deep respect for each other.

[Henni]

It's good to think, it really is.

 

I'm sorry and I don't mean to keep riding you about it, but you are still writing as if you are the one that is saving this poor man. It reads like you see him as more enlightened now, better than he was and you take the credit for pulling him out of this poor existence.

 

I see it like this, he has greatly exaggerated how bad it is or was or he is a fool for staying so long in something that made him so terrible unhappy. Either one is not good for you and doesn't make good relationship material. Relationship.........you shouldn't even give it a thought until he passes the big hurdle of divorce, but you are already having an ea with him. I suspect you nor him will admit, but you both know deep down that is why he is really leaving. Because of you.

 

He doesn't seem to have the fortitude to be able to leave unless he has a something waiting.........right?

 

I can totally see why you think that, and maybe you are right to some degree. I like to feel I helped him, I like to feel I help....almost anyone! really, I am one of those who need to feel useful and who take a lot of joy out of watching people grow, including myself. I like to see myself grow. The background to all this, which I'm trying carefully to write without leaving any identifying information (who knows - this site came up pretty early in a google search which he or his wife could have easily made), is that this all started with him helping me out of a bad situation career-wise. That's how I came to work with him. This was a couple of years ago and we hardly knew each other. I guess I was grateful for that, he heard my story, and took a chance, and I managed to get out of a bad situation and into a good one work-wise. I think he was a fool to stay in a relationship that made him so unhappy. I think probably many good people are fools in bad relationships because they think it's best for the kids. I don't have kids, so I don't judge that, but it seems forgivable, to me at least. I know that I am the catalyst for his divorce, but the reasons were around long before we met. Since my last post, I've told him that we need to stop this immediately, he needs to go to a counselor, move into his own place and do a lot of hard work figuring out his life before we resume anything. I also said that I will try very hard not to wait, but instead spend the time working out what I want from any relationship, and that I can't promise anything other than I will be honest about it, even if that means I don't want this anymore when he gets that far. For now, no interaction at all, either physical or emotional, until he's crossed the hurdle of moving out and filing for divorce. And then, we can talk, but no being a couple until he's lived a good long time on his own. I didn't specify how long, but I think about a year. This will be so hard, really, the instinct to reach out to anyone I care about who is going through a hard time is very strong, but the instinct to reach out to him, nomatter whether things are going well or going badly, is so strong that I don't know how I will do it. I told him that if either of us tries to initiate a relationship in the meantime, it means we don't care about each other enough to really make this work. It's the best I could do, I did a lot of soul searching, so did he, and this seemed right. I can't say it will never happen or that I don't hope for it, but, i'm doing my best. Now, I guess I just need to stay strong and weather the storm, whatever it might be. Feel scared of that, and wish he was here, crave the physical closeness, can't sleep, but also think it has to be this way. He thanked me for what I said, and said he felt strangely calm, because everything was much clearer now. He sent me a link to a house he found to rent. Lets see. Life is really hard sometimes. I'm trying not to hope too much.

[Artie Lang]

Henni, you're right. many people are "stuck" in unsatisfying marriages. but to say there is no other choice is pure BS.....there is a choice. you can get out of them. carrying-on with an affair only to to turn a blind eye to your marital problems is not the way to go.

 

you seem like a reasonable and well-grounded person. you knew this was wrong, that's why you came here-- for feedback.

 

i'm not denying your feelings for this man; nor his for you. the thing is, you were being a party to his deceit. your decision to enter into an affair with him was a horrible one. it made you question your values and belief system. you owe it to yourself to be sure this is not just some lust-filled fling. you're investing waaay too much to have your heart broken in the end. you owe yourself a real chance at love..... a tangible sign that he feels the same way. he needs to want it just as much as you do. don't get strung along.

 

all I'm saying to you - and all the other OW out there - is you deserve better. not just some table scraps.

 

if you two do find yourselves available when all is said and done-- more power to you. it was well worth the wait. never compromise your standards. always be true to yourself.

 

good luck.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Artie Lang

[ComingInHot]

Soooooo...

 

You state having a good set of morals/ethics BUT there are grey areas w/in these standards you live by... I read that you are using this as a way to continue thinking highly of yourself and how good of a person you are while systematically altering these morals/principles by defining certain circumstances as "grey" areas whereby justifying your comprimising said standards through enlighted/open minded etc.. type of thinking.

 

What I get from this is that regardless of what the truth is behind closed doors or whether or not his W knows he is unhappy, you're basically cool w/having an A w/a MM. This comprimised standard that you have justified as "grey" would also indicate that you'd be cool w/Your husband one day cheating On you...

 

I guess so long as your cool with it, then by all means, proceed.

I personally think you want More for yourself... how bout you?**

[Pierre]

Soooooo...

 

You state having a good set of morals/ethics BUT there are grey areas w/in these standards you live by... I read that you are using this as a way to continue thinking highly of yourself and how good of a person you are while systematically altering these morals/principles by defining certain circumstances as "grey" areas whereby justifying your comprimising said standards through enlighted/open minded etc.. type of thinking.

 

What I get from this is that regardless of what the truth is behind closed doors or whether or not his W knows he is unhappy, you're basically cool w/having an A w/a MM. This comprimised standard that you have justified as "grey" would also indicate that you'd be cool w/Your husband one day cheating On you...

 

I guess so long as your cool with it, then by all means, proceed.

I personally think you want More for yourself... how bout you?**

 

Most people having affairs rationalize and justify what they do quite well. They are also good with denial.:laugh:

 

That may explain the compromise of integrity.

[whichwayisup]

It's very easy for one or both to make promises and give hope for a future, but at the end of the day, neither are obligated to one another, let alone if one or both are already married.

 

When you (general you) knows there's always an "out" (ie, I'm already married so how can I possibly follow through on something said/promised) because there's no real commitment. Affairs (not all, but many) are full of empty promises which turn into broken promises, even if the intention feels real. Hope that makes sense.

[Henni]

Soooooo...

 

You state having a good set of morals/ethics BUT there are grey areas w/in these standards you live by... I read that you are using this as a way to continue thinking highly of yourself and how good of a person you are while systematically altering these morals/principles by defining certain circumstances as "grey" areas whereby justifying your comprimising said standards through enlighted/open minded etc.. type of thinking.

 

No, I think my principals are compromised by having an affair with a MM, and I'm surprised by that. In general, I would not do it. However, I have to face that fact that I did, and that because of who he is, who I am, and to some degree, who is wife is, specifically, this happened. I don't think it would have happened if this was a normal married couple, who show some affection for each other and who people around them and working with them know they have been married for 20 years. That's not the case here. It's a really weird situation.

 

What I get from this is that regardless of what the truth is behind closed doors or whether or not his W knows he is unhappy, you're basically cool w/having an A w/a MM. This comprimised standard that you have justified as "grey" would also indicate that you'd be cool w/Your husband one day cheating On you...

 

I guess so long as your cool with it, then by all means, proceed.

I personally think you want More for yourself... how bout you?**

 

I'm NOT basically cool w/having an A w/a MM. I'm basically thinking it's uncool. But, I also think it's not black and white, for example, I strongly believe that it's wrong to kill someone, then again, there are grey areas even in that, sometimes it is the right thing to do, not even a grey area...self defense....defense of a load of people against a crazy person with a machine gun....it sounds weak to you, obviously, but I think i'm in a grey area i've not been in before. That's why I'm reassessing. I also called it off yesterday, pending his moving out, and divorce being filed, which was very hard, and will continue to be hard, but I think if we really have some love between us, we will respect that, from both sides. Now I'll try to move on, and try not to hope too much, and not to plan around a positive outcome, so I don't end up with a broken heart.

[Henni]

It's very easy for one or both to make promises and give hope for a future, but at the end of the day, neither are obligated to one another, let alone if one or both are already married.

 

When you (general you) knows there's always an "out" (ie, I'm already married so how can I possibly follow through on something said/promised) because there's no real commitment. Affairs (not all, but many) are full of empty promises which turn into broken promises, even if the intention feels real. Hope that makes sense.

 

It makes a lot of sense, thanks whichway, I know this, and I actually feel like we need to have this recognised between us, more from my side than from his - as in - I won't wait, there is no expectation on me to be around if and when he gets through a divorce. I don't want to wait around for that, it's degrading, and I will try not to. Although, what I can say here but not to him, is that not waiting will be really hard, especially if I see him move out and make those steps. If he's not moved out within this first month, I think I will start to lose respect anyway and feel he is weak. Then, it will be easier to walk away, because I won't be attracted to him as much. Does that sound crazy?

[ComingInHot]

Self defense is forced upon us.

 

Engaging in an Affair is a Choice. Unless you were raped but that would be a Forced upon action...

 

I DO get you rationilaztion. I really do W/the limited knowledge you have pieced together the puzzle of how you got to where you are & why it made sense. Unfortunately the puzzle is still missing pieces that you may never get. And the Whole thing SUCKS! I feel bad for you that you are hurting from the choices you made.

 

I know you want better. Now Go get it!

[Pierre]

Affairs (not all, but many) are full of empty promises which turn into broken promises, even if the intention feels real. Hope that makes sense.

 

Been there done that from both sides of the equation. I can't believe all the BS and sappy stuff I once said to a MOW.

 

One can say things that are super romantic and eventually one touches the concept of soul mates. But, this is all done within a fantasy bubble that breaks apart on d-day.

[FightClub]

Been there done that from both sides of the equation. I can't believe all the BS and sappy stuff I once said to a MOW.

 

One can say things that are super romantic and eventually one touches the concept of soul mates. But, this is all done within a fantasy bubble that breaks apart on d-day.

 

Pierre,

 

Thank you for posting this, its a perspective that a lot of OM only see until afterwards, all the 'sweet nothings' literally become nothing after D-day, so much for soulmates, huh?

 

-FC