How to communicate w/ non-Christians

[M30USA]

One thing I've noticed about all the "heavy hitters" in the Bible, such as Jesus and John the Baptist, is that they never spend time debating whether or not God exists, or how reliable the Scriptures are, or how the universe started. They simply BEGAN conversations telling people what God says and what he requires. I think it's kind of funny in a way, and I know it must probably drive non-believers crazy or make them think we are off-the-rocker. But, seriously, life is too short and, as Jesus said, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Next time you are in a debate with a non-believer, don't get sucked in. Nothing ever becomes of it. No person--via a debate--was ever converted into Christianity. And no person--via a debate--ever fell away from Christianity. It's all spiritual and a matter of the heart. This is why all we should do is say, "This is what the Bible says..." or "This is what God said..." Ultimately, non-believers won't think you are any more crazy by doing this than they would if you got engaged in a debate. And AT LEAST by the end, they will have learned something about God's Word that may actually plant a seed and grow fruit one day.

[amaysngrace]

I find it wise to avoid debating religious beliefs since they are highly personal and no two people think the same.

 

If this is all you have to discuss I suggest you get a new hobby or join a club of some sort to expand on your interests.

[pie2]

My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. James 1:19-20

 

Debate seems like an opportunity to defend beliefs. Conversation seems to allow for more opportunity to understand the other's point of view. But if we can't participate in either, how do we know whether or not our own beliefs have any weight to them?

 

It's when people start to argue that the defensive walls go up.

 

Jesus and John the Baptist...simply BEGAN conversations telling people what God says and what he requires. I think it's kind of funny in a way, and I know it must probably drive non-believers crazy or make them think we are off-the-rocker.

 

This even drives me a little crazy! Atheists usually can't get past the "bible is a fairytale" idea, so there must be additional sources to use. One of the best being the personal miracle God performs in each of our lives when we choose to have a relationship with Him.

Edited November 11, 2012 by pie2

[Eve]

Day to day, I prefer to refer to people by their names and not their faith/absence of faith. This works well.

 

It is my experience that God can be seperate and also part of a person and as such I think we have little choice but to accept the whole person.

 

I do have absolute faith in God and as such I leave the intricate connections up to Him as I do not have a conclusive idea of what He is actually doing. I have a pretty good idea though and just wish He would get on with it already. I live pretty much in a strong longing for God and for the Earth to be restored, which seems to a good enough focus within interactions with anyone.

 

Logistically there are terms with can be pretty interchangeable between both camps which are effective mediums; many terms in psychotherapy for example and I have learned to accept that this is as far as it goes for some, so seek out those who go the extra mile as my closest friends.

 

That is good enough for me.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[mercy]

One thing I've noticed about all the "heavy hitters" in the Bible, such as Jesus and John the Baptist, is that they never spend time debating whether or not God exists, or how reliable the Scriptures are, or how the universe started. They simply BEGAN conversations telling people what God says and what he requires. I think it's kind of funny in a way, and I know it must probably drive non-believers crazy or make them think we are off-the-rocker. But, seriously, life is too short and, as Jesus said, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Next time you are in a debate with a non-believer, don't get sucked in. Nothing ever becomes of it. No person--via a debate--was ever converted into Christianity. And no person--via a debate--ever fell away from Christianity. It's all spiritual and a matter of the heart. This is why all we should do is say, "This is what the Bible says..." or "This is what God said..." Ultimately, non-believers won't think you are any more crazy by doing this than they would if you got engaged in a debate. And AT LEAST by the end, they will have learned something about God's Word that may actually plant a seed and grow fruit one day.

 

How to communicate with non-Christians -

 

Believe just like me or you're going straight to hell! So there!

 

Or -

 

Hi how are you. Wanna do lunch. Guess what funny thing my grandkid did.

[Mme. Chaucer]

How to communicate with non-Christians -

 

Believe just like me or you're going straight to hell! So there!

 

Or -

 

Hi how are you. Wanna do lunch. Guess what funny thing my grandkid did.

 

And, honestly, OP - I think you need to have people in your life even if they don't believe exactly as you do. So maybe you should try to connect with people in ways that you actually do relate with each other.

[ComingInHot]

I think in terms of conversation not debate. I use my own life experiences & relationships just as I would on Any topic of discussion. When I am talking w/someone about Anything, I may use my faith in God so the person can see where I am coming from.

 

Remember, that the majority of people tend to have a lot of hostility towards "religion" and are ready for a "fight" at the mere mention of it. And that is okay. Just realize that Sometimes it is best to end the discussion for both or all parties sake. As far as feeling like I "lost" in the debate of is God real, well that is perception too. There are times when I argue w/a brick wall that I feel like I lost while other times I feel like I "won" or did well?

Horrible analogy, I know...

 

If the "debate", discussion, conversation is not invited or accepted then the other party will most likely hear blah blah blah... ( like the teachers in he peanuts cartoons)**

[M30USA]

And, honestly, OP - I think you need to have people in your life even if they don't believe exactly as you do. So maybe you should try to connect with people in ways that you actually do relate with each other.

 

LOL, over half of my direct family is atheist/agnostic. I have a longtime Buddhist friend. My best friend at the time is Jewish. This is the very reason I know ALL ABOUT other religions to the extent that I do. (And do you really believe this online forum represents the extent of my social circle?)

 

What about your social circle?

[mercy]

 

What about your social circle?

 

oh oh can I answer this one?

 

Today's social circle is ten men in my den watching football. Acting like they're ten. Because I hate football I served them green tea and kale chips. Mum served them little smokies and beer. Two are gay, one is a Muslim, and a few are Christians. I'll grill the other ones at a commercial.

[threebyfate]

Debate is about winning or losing, scoring or not, through a point system, so it's not really intended as a methodology for religious conversion.

 

The question is, why must the religious convert, whether it's conversion of other believers to their one belief or agnostics and atheists? This is integral to why certain religions and religious extremists garner so much negative backlash.

 

Adam Savage said it best:

 

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

[mario_C]

oh oh can I answer this one?

 

Today's social circle is ten men in my den watching football. Acting like they're ten. Because I hate football I served them green tea and kale chips. Mum served them little smokies and beer. Two are gay, one is a Muslim, and a few are Christians. I'll grill the other ones at a commercial.

You've got fun friends! I don't like football either (American, that is) and I'd hang out with them.

 

Anyway, here's something for you religious people to read before talking to us heathens*. I tried to come up with something on my own, but a review of everyone's talking points shows that no one will listen anyway.

 

 

*That's just a joke. Calm down, everyone.

[M30USA]

You've got fun friends! I don't like football either (American, that is) and I'd hang out with them.

 

Anyway, here's something for you religious people to read before talking to us heathens*. I tried to come up with something on my own, but a review of everyone's talking points shows that no one will listen anyway.

 

 

*That's just a joke. Calm down, everyone.

 

Funny you mention heathens. A heathen merely means someone who doesn't attend an organized religious group (not the same as a non-believer). Jesus said there will be heathens in heaven. This pissed off the religious leaders.

[Eve]

Funny you mention heathens. A heathen merely means someone who doesn't attend an organized religious group (not the same as a non-believer). Jesus said there will be heathens in heaven. This pissed off the religious leaders.

 

Really? I will have to verify this. Well I have learned something there!

 

I look up to C S Lewis as a good debater, within his writings.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[alexandria35]

One thing I've noticed about all the "heavy hitters" in the Bible, such as Jesus and John the Baptist, is that they never spend time debating whether or not God exists, or how reliable the Scriptures are, or how the universe started. They simply BEGAN conversations telling people what God says and what he requires. I think it's kind of funny in a way, and I know it must probably drive non-believers crazy or make them think we are off-the-rocker. But, seriously, life is too short and, as Jesus said, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand". Next time you are in a debate with a non-believer, don't get sucked in. Nothing ever becomes of it. No person--via a debate--was ever converted into Christianity. And no person--via a debate--ever fell away from Christianity. It's all spiritual and a matter of the heart. This is why all we should do is say, "This is what the Bible says..." or "This is what God said..." Ultimately, non-believers won't think you are any more crazy by doing this than they would if you got engaged in a debate. And AT LEAST by the end, they will have learned something about God's Word that may actually plant a seed and grow fruit one day.

 

The problem with this is that there are many different ways to interpet the bible and many different way to interpet what God said in the bible, so just saying "this is what the bible says" or "this is what God says" wouldn't necessarily end the debate and may in fact just invite more debate about how you are interpeting things.

 

I myself am a believer and yet I find it rather annoying when people want to tell me what God says. It sounds arrogant. My stepfather and I used to get into some debates about God and religion and he had a habit of saying that "you're not arguing with me, you're arguing with God" and I'd be WTF are you talking about? I'm not talking to God, I'm talking to you. And he'd be sitting there looking all smug and clever thinking he found the secret to winning every argument. "Yeah that's the ticket...I'll tell them they are arguing with God and that will shut them up. Who wants to argue with God afterall?"

 

My relationship with God is my relationship. It's up to me to decide what God is saying to me, it's up to me to read the scriptures and decide how those scriptures apply to me and my life. I don't look to other people to tell me what God says or what the bible says.

[Mme. Chaucer]

LOL, over half of my direct family is atheist/agnostic. I have a longtime Buddhist friend. My best friend at the time is Jewish.

 

Then, evidently, you know of ways to communicate with them.

 

This is the very reason I know ALL ABOUT other religions to the extent that I do.

 

With that, my friend, I'd have to take vehement issue!

 

What about your social circle?

 

Well, it includes quite a vast array, if you are talking about religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Even including a Rastafarian!

 

My husband, as I've posted here before, comes from an EXTREMELY rigid religious background. Fundamentalist Christian; preacher's son, no movies, no dancing, no Catholics in the house, no adornments on women, etc. Like you, I think. He has moved on from that. Obviously! Or he would never have married me! (Not to mention lived with me in sin prior!)

 

Most interesting is his 92 year old mother (his dad, the pastor, died early this year). She has not let go of her beliefs, but in her age, experience, spiritual growth and wisdom she has let go of the idea that she has understood everything perfectly. She now does not believe that God and his purposes are knowable by people, even by those who can quote the entire bible with mnemonic precision like she and my husband can. She views things (like gayness, divorce, gender identity) with humility now, whereas such concepts used to provoke her outrage.

[M30USA]

You challenge my knowledge of world religions? Go ahead, try me. I swear I won't use Google. You mistake my firm belief in my faith for lack of knowledge of others. Have you read the Quran? I have. The Tanakh? I have. Book of Tao? I have. Siddartha or other Buddhist texts? I have.

[M30USA]

Beat em with a stick?

 

 

"I'll show you!! Die Die Die you Non Christian."

 

Nope, that's Islam.

 

(This is the case if you are talking strictly from a comparison of the Bible to the Q'uran. The Bible, with the exception of the oft-misuderstood "Nephilim" situation, never tells believers to murder non-believers. The Q'uran instructs Muslims, when entering another nation, to first give infidels a chance to convert and serve Allah, yet if they don't, they are ordered to kill them. Have you read both the Q'uran and the Bible? Or are you going based on what you've seen on TV?)

Edited November 13, 2012 by M30USA

[Eve]

Nope, that's Islam.

 

(This is the case if you are talking strictly from a comparison of the Bible to the Q'uran. The Bible, with the exception of the oft-misuderstood "Nephilim" situation, never tells believers to murder non-believers. The Q'uran instructs Muslims, when entering another nation, to first give infidels a chance to convert and serve Allah, yet if they don't, they are ordered to kill them. Have you read both the Q'uran and the Bible? Or are you going based on what you've seen on TV?)

 

I think the whole 'dashing babies against rocks' thing in the OT trumps anything Islam could come up with.

 

I have reconciled that the dark aspect of human nature is being captured in such passages. In daily life, such phantasies are part of human social constuctions, embedded deeply in the psyche; racism, sexism and all that jazz. Those who deny they do not have this are telling fibs. I know that I wouldn't mind a celebrity genocide or paedophile genocide, lol. The reality is different though - obviously.

 

From what I have seen non believers and believers have the same thing going on.

 

So, I don't go with that as a means to convince anyone of which book is 'correct'. God is beyond all of that. To be honest, I don't know how He can even be bothered with us.

 

I find most interesting the fact that many people have experiences prior to conversion/accepting God into their lives.

 

Well, that is what I listen out for in communication with others, especially how they moderate their emotions.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[ffw]

Nope, that's Islam.

 

(This is the case if you are talking strictly from a comparison of the Bible to the Q'uran. The Bible, with the exception of the oft-misuderstood "Nephilim" situation, never tells believers to murder non-believers. The Q'uran instructs Muslims, when entering another nation, to first give infidels a chance to convert and serve Allah, yet if they don't, they are ordered to kill them. Have you read both the Q'uran and the Bible? Or are you going based on what you've seen on TV?)

 

Not sure where you are got this knowledge from. I read both scriptures. You latter part is completely out of context. Please try to avoid false information.

[M30USA]

Okay. I will have exact quotes from the Quran shortly.

[BetheButterfly]

And, honestly, OP - I think you need to have people in your life even if they don't believe exactly as you do. So maybe you should try to connect with people in ways that you actually do relate with each other.

 

Agreed. It really helps to understand that people are different, even in how they think/what they believe, and that's ok. Everybody has something to share and contribute, which makes the world an interesting place. As long as we don't hurt ourselves or others, diversity is cool!

 

That's one reason why I'm so grateful for the freedom of religion here in the USA!

 

When I lived in Chicago, I absolutely loved seeing people of different faiths/worldviews walking and being at peace with each other. It made me so happy because we are all on this earth together; we need to get along, even when we disagree.

[BetheButterfly]

How specifically does seeing people of multiple religions make you happy?

 

Seeing people of different beliefs get along and enjoy life together makes me happy because I love peace.

Or.. how do you know that is happiness?

When I smile because my inner being feels satisfied, I know that "it is happiness" lol.

 

So you first see that "these people are different" then you see that "these people don't go to church" and then you see that these people need to be converted to Christianity?

No. I see, "These people are different" and then I ask myself "Why?" and then I notice how we can all get along even though we disagree in different areas. The important thing is that we are all human beings and if we strive to live together in peace, we can.

 

Does happiness mean for you that there are many potential Christian converts?

Interesting question. I don't see it that way. Jesus said that only those who the Father has enabled can come to him (John 6:65). So, if a person converts, that's God's doing. It's not a mere mortal's "convincing" that does it.

 

Imagine as if the United States was restricted to only Christianity.. would you be happy then?

No, I'd be devastated, because freedom of religion is one of the main aspects that has made the USA a great country. Also, I would miss my friends who are not Christians. To me, a human person is valuable and amazing because of who he/she is, not because of what belief they choose.

 

I chose to be a Christian because of my personal experience with God through Jesus Christ, and yes, I believe God enabled me. I don't know why He doesn't enable everyone. However, God is loving and the concept of hell, which is so prevalent in Roman/Greek culture, is not the concept that Judaism (and Jesus is Jewish and quoted extensively from the Tanakh) has. Judaism sees hell as a cleansing.

 

This is very interesting to me, (I boldened some.) "The Jewish mystics described a spiritual place called “Gehinnom.” This is usually translated as “Hell,” but a better translation would be “the Supernal Washing Machine.” Because that’s exactly how it works. The way our soul is cleansed in Gehinnom is similar to the way our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine."

What Is the Jewish Belief on Hell? - Questions

 

Interestingly, when Jesus talks about hell, he does not talk about those who reject him going there. Rather, he talks about those who don't care for those in need going there (Matthew 25:41-46; Luke 16:19-31) and for those who are not loving and/or pure. (Matthew 5:22, 29-30). Jesus uses hyperbole when talking about the importance of being pure. When I personally think of pure, I think of pure water and how we don't tend to like drinking water that's not clean.

 

Now, I know some Agnostics and Atheists who help those in need and are pure and loving. I also know some Jewish Orthodox people, Jewish Reform people, Muslims and Hindus like that, and have learned that there are Buddhists like that too. I'm sure there are also Wiccans and people of other beliefs who help those in need and are pure and loving. Together with Christians (and sadly not all people who call themselves Christians help those in need and are pure and loving), we all help make the world a better place!!!

Edited November 14, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[tom3.1415]

One thing I've noticed about all the "heavy hitters" in the Bible, such as Jesus and John the Baptist, is that they never spend time debating whether or not God exists, or how reliable the Scriptures are, or how the universe started.

 

That's the whole point. Scriptures that assume the Jewish version of God is true a-priori are in the Roman Bible. There were more introspective scriptures, the Thomas gospel for one and the Adoptionist movement surely had plenty of scripture. That type of thinking or writing - debating whether or not God exists - was made punishable by death in 3AD after the Niceain Council put the Bible together. They had no use to include any writings that challenged the reliability of scripture. There was plenty, much has been destroyed by Rome but you can still read plenty of material from that time that debates scripture. Simply find a good site on historical Judaism.

 

I've never heard of any religion or mythology where the disciples spend time debating if their god or gods exist.

 

Keep in mind I'm not saying whatever you believe is or isn't true, just that there are obvious reasons why those debates you mention are not in the Roman bible.

[The nihilst chick]

I love debates. Not only because i like to feel right, which is part of it, but it helps me or others end misconceptions and to be honest about our views. Also, it can teach you the other persons view and help you make stronger arguments yourself! Debates can also convince others to change for the better. People are arguing over gay marriage as we speak. We need debates or people may continue on in racism,homophobia etc.even if it is one person who changes their mind,thats better than nonthing.