Islamic faith

[thegreatesthumphrey]

Anyone have any opinions on the Islamic faith? I am studying it currently as one of my mandatory courses. It is interesting. I would just like to know what other think. Please no disrespect of others.

[peppermintpaddy]

Islam is the greatest threat to western civilization ever....intrinsically evil

[mercy]

“Be like the sun for grace and mercy. Be like the night to cover others' faults. Be like running water for generosity. Be like death for rage and anger. Be like the Earth for modesty. Appear as you are. Be as you appear.”

― Rumi

[OpenBook]

I don't know much about Islam other than what I read in the news. I am afraid of it - partly because I don't know it, but mainly because it seems to me that in Islamic countries, their people are poor and oppressed, women are still regarded as property, and they seem to have little to no regard for human life. They seem to be obsessed with vengeance.

 

I'm also a bit fascinated by the fact that Muslims, Christians and Jews all share the same heritage in Abraham - "the father of many nations."

[BetheButterfly]

Anyone have any opinions on the Islamic faith? I am studying it currently as one of my mandatory courses. It is interesting. I would just like to know what other think. Please no disrespect of others.

 

I have some friends who are Muslim. They are very sweet people and share similarities in their beliefs with me, a Christian. Below are some of the areas which are similar:

 

1. They believe in the "One and Only God" who they call Allah, with 99 names. I believe in the "One and Only God" as well, though I believe He is triune; He has many titles.

 

2. They pray, though much different than me. They also fast, though different than how fasting goes in my belief.

 

3. They are family-oriented. Even though there are indeed Muslims who are polygamous, my Muslim friends are not; they are monogamous, same as me. They also respect/uphold their marriage covenants. They consider children a blessing, same as me.

 

4. They emphasize modesty, although they have varying degrees in modesty and a different definition than I do.

 

5. They give to the poor and are generous host/hostesses, which is also important to me.

 

6. They are peace-loving people who enjoy living in a country full of diversity, same as I do.

 

7. They would like to go to Mecca for hajj, which is similar to me wanting to visit Bethlehem, Jerusalem, and Nazareth - where Jesus walked and taught.

 

Now, just as in most groups of people, there were/are Muslims who were/are not peaceful but rather violent. Sadly, there were/are Christians who were/are not peaceful but rather violent too. This is the case with some Atheists and Hindus, as well as people of other beliefs too.

 

As a Christian, I personally believe that Muhammad was a false prophet, among those mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 24:11, 24. Now, of course my Muslim friends do not appreciate that I consider Muhammad to be a false prophet. However, that is a mere fact that this is what I believe. I do not believe it to hurt anybody, but rather after praying and studying, this is my conclusion. This however does not make the people who follow him less in my eyes. Rather, this belief of mine leads me to discover why I believe he is a false prophet.

 

Many of Muhammad's teachings and actions contradict Jesus' teachings and actions. Jesus emphasized love, whereas Muhammad in his later years resorted to violence. Jesus however did not kill anyone nor did he teach his followers to kill anyone. Rather, many were killed for believing in him and teaching about him.

 

Islam spread rapidly through Arabia after Muhammad and his followers conquered Mecca. Other Arab tribes submitted to his leadership. Muhammad was not like Jesus in that respect, since Jesus was not a military commander. Jesus rather healed people and taught them.

 

After Muhammad died, his followers conquered other nations, including Egypt and Persia (modern-day Iran). However, Jesus' followers did not conquer but rather spread through the Roman Empire, teaching about Jesus. Many were persecuted and killed for their faith. They did not try to take over any country. They considered martydom to mean dying for Jesus; they did not try to kill anyone while they were persecuted.

 

So, my opinion on the Islamic faith stems from comparing the differences between Jesus and Muhammad, as well as the differences between the early followers of both. Because of this, even though I very much respect and love my Muslim friends, I do not believe what they do concerning Muhammad and his teachings, as well as the Qur'an.

 

I do believe in Jesus and his teachings, which are accounted in the Bible and in the blood of many of his early followers who bravely told others about what Jesus said and did.

Edited November 12, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[Eve]

I know that charity is an intregal part of the muslim faith. Very central.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[ffw]

Some teachings of Islam:

 

 

 

• Islam believes in Jesus christ too. In fact, no muslim is a muslim if he/she doesn't believe in Jesus. The parting of ways comes with chirstians believing jesus christ as God or son of God whereas Muslims believe him as a prophet.
  
• Muslims believe prophet Mohammad as the last & final messenger.
  
• If you saved a innocent person it is as if you saved a whole humankind. If an innocent person loses his life it is similar to as if killing whole humankind.
  

Hope it helps. GL.

[Feelin Frisky]

I have an opinion on the Islamic faith. But it is a very superficial one. There are just a few key issues that make for my opinion--one is that it is patriarchal in which men are "above" women in an assumed power structure, second is that there is a strong pervasive unwillingness to separate religion from "law" and instead keep them one in the same, and third, whereas in Christianity there is a strong theme of "forgiveness" and a philosophy of disarmament through the offering of "the other cheek", Islam takes it cues from the Prophet Muhammad, who is grounded instead on "an eye for an eye". Other than that I have no opinions or prejudices. The fact that Allah never shows up to confirm his own existence creates a defacto state where man creates god's law and thus is the law unto himself in his own home. In secular nations, there is "man's law" which more than anything else exists to protect women and children from the man. Men, even non-muslims often want this kind of cult configuration where they are the arbiters of "god's law" and since god never shows up, they are the law and treat their women as property or persons subject to their authority in the absolute.

[aj22one]

Anyone have any opinions on the Islamic faith? I am studying it currently as one of my mandatory courses. It is interesting. I would just like to know what other think. Please no disrespect of others.

 

haha I have no problem with Islam, it's a nice faith, just not for me.

 

My wife is Muslim, her parents are from Pakistan. I've met them obviously haha they're really nice people. I've dated other Muslim women in the past too. So no, Muslim parents don't all kill their daughters because they date a white guy or don't wear the scarf. Don't listen to media hysteria haha

 

There's also not just one Islam. Muslims all over the world practice the faith in so many different ways. Carl Ernst wrote a book called Following Muhammad, you should check it out it's pretty good haha

[MissBee]

I think lots of people are quite misinformed or completely ignorant of Islam and I'm glad your University has it as a requirement for you to learn about it...

 

I took a class at the graduate level on shariah law and while I am not a scholar of Islam, many of my classmates, including the professor were both scholars and practicing Muslims. It was a great course and we had lots of experts on Islam, as well as legal experts come in and shed light on various topics dealing with both the theological teachings of Islam as well as Islamic law.

 

It's a faith like any other and my opinion of it is just that. I however usually refrain from having conversations with most people about Islam or religion period, as most people know little to nothing about the topic but have lots of strong opinions based in fear and ignorance and some even arrogance, and it just ends up being a terribly annoying and pointless conversation.

[MissBee]

haha I have no problem with Islam, it's a nice faith, just not for me.

 

My wife is Muslim, her parents are from Pakistan. I've met them obviously haha they're really nice people. I've dated other Muslim women in the past too. So no, Muslim parents don't all kill their daughters because they date a white guy or don't wear the scarf. Don't listen to media hysteria haha

There's also not just one Islam. Muslims all over the world practice the faith in so many different ways. Carl Ernst wrote a book called Following Muhammad, you should check it out it's pretty good haha

 

This is a good point. People often essentialize Islam, when there are different strands of Islam, and even within the different strands, just like Christianity, African Christians practice theirs differently than European Christians and European Christians differently than Caribbean Christians etc. Just like you have various denominations as well as cultural factors that shape how people practice Christianity, so it is with Islam. Indonesian Muslims (Indonesia also has the largest Muslim population in the world and contrary to what some believe, places like Iran are not even top 5 in terms of largest Muslim population) practice their faith differently than Sudanese Muslims, American Muslims etc.

[M30USA]

Anyone have any opinions on the Islamic faith? I am studying it currently as one of my mandatory courses. It is interesting. I would just like to know what other think. Please no disrespect of others.

 

Please specify what you mean by "Islamic faith". Are you talking about the text of the Quran or the Muslim people as a culture? There is a difference.

Edited November 13, 2012 by M30USA

[pie2]

I have some friends who are Muslim. They are very sweet people and share similarities in their beliefs with me, a Christian...I do believe in Jesus and his teachings, which are accounted in the Bible and in the blood of many of his early followers who bravely told others about what Jesus said and did.

 

I love this post BtB (the whole thing...not just what I quoted)! Thanks

[mercy]

This is a good point. People often essentialize Islam, when there are different strands of Islam, and even within the different strands, just like Christianity, African Christians practice theirs differently than European Christians and European Christians differently than Caribbean Christians etc. Just like you have various denominations as well as cultural factors that shape how people practice Christianity, so it is with Islam. Indonesian Muslims (Indonesia also has the largest Muslim population in the world and contrary to what some believe, places like Iran are not even top 5 in terms of largest Muslim population) practice their faith differently than Sudanese Muslims, American Muslims etc.

 

So true, MissBee.

The Sufi masters all point to that most essential place within you and their teaching although it came out of Islam it transcends as every true, deep spiritual teaching does, it transcends the forms out of which it comes. In the same way that for example Zen although it comes out of Buddhism it transcends Buddhism.In the same way that the great Christian mystics of the Middle ages transcended the narrow form of Christianisty and of course very often they were persecuted for that by orthodox Christians, In the same way that the sufi were some of them were persecuted and killed by orthodox Muslims and still are.

 

Nowadays especially when we speak of Islam we think of it as a or many people think of it as an intolerant religion but any religion can be turned into that and if you look back to the Middle Ages you will see that Islam was far more tolerant at that time than Christianity and Islam at that time had a far more highly developed civilization than the Christian civilization of Europe of central Europe, Islam was in southern Europe also.

 

 

 

Excerpt of Eckhart Tolle - 'The Wisdom of Sufism'. If anyone is interested I'll post the video in its entirety.

[venusianx13]

I've read a little about Sufism, mercy... I'd definitely be interested in learning more. (via the video)

[mercy]

I've read a little about Sufism, mercy... I'd definitely be interested in learning more. (via the video)

 

It's not a very good video and I can't find another one. But to me anything by Eckhart Tolle is a gift.

 

The Wisdom of Sufism Eckhart Tolle Sept 2011 ETTV - YouTube

[BetheButterfly]

Some teachings of Islam:

 

 

 

• Islam believes in Jesus christ too. In fact, no muslim is a muslim if he/she doesn't believe in Jesus. The parting of ways comes with chirstians believing jesus christ as God or son of God whereas Muslims believe him as a prophet.
  

 

You are right that Christians believe differently than Muslims concerning Jesus Christ. Because of this, I do take that into consideration concerning my opinion of the Islamic faith.

 

The Messiah - Christ - (Anointed One who God promised to King David) is also called the Son of God. That is part of the "Messianic" prophecies: 2 Samuel 7:12-17; 1 Chronicles 17:11-15; Psalm 2; Psalm 89:20-29). Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6-7 are also considered to be prophecies concerning the Messiah promised to King David by God. Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah, son of God (Matthew 16:13-17; John 11:25-27) because of what he said and did, as well as what we believe he will do in the future. That's why his chosen apostles and disciples (followers) told others about him and what he said and did.

 

However, because Muhammad and his followers deny that Jesus is the Son of God, that brings confusion, since being called son of God is part of the Messianic prophecies. Also, many Muslims tend to deny that Jesus died on the cross and that God rose him from the dead. Many say that Christians lied about that, which saddens me that they think that. However, they have the right to think what they want. As for me, I believe that Jesus' death and resurrection fulfills the prophesies in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

 

Most Jewish people during Jesus' time who did not believe that Jesus is the Messiah knew that Jesus had died. They just didn't believe that he rose from the dead. However, some believed and told others about him, as well as later on telling the Gentiles.

 

 

• Muslims believe prophet Mohammad as the last & final messenger.
  

 

The above also contradicts Christian beliefs, since God gives prophecies to both men and women still today. A prophet is a kind of of messenger.

 

Accounted in Acts 2, Peter quotes the prophecy in Joel concerning God pouring out his Spirit on both men and women. This was not extinguished with Muhammad.

 

Joel 3 in the Jewish Bible is amazing just to think about... it's what Peter is referring after God sent down the Holy Spirit to Jesus' followers, just like Jesus promised (accounted in John 14-16):

 

"1 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions;

2 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit.

3 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

4 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of HaShem come.

5 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of HaShem shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as HaShem hath said, and among the remnant those whom HaShem shall call."

Joel Chapter 3

 

 

 

• If you saved a innocent person it is as if you saved a whole humankind. If an innocent person loses his life it is similar to as if killing whole humankind.

That is beautiful and reminds me of what Jesus said,

 

 

 

"11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." (John 15)

 

John 15 NIV - The Vine and the Branches -

 

 

 

One of the things that concerns me concerning the Islamic belief is the hatred against the Jewish people that it seems many Muslims have. Now, horribly, many Gentile "Christians" throughout the years have hated Jewish people too. Why, I don't understand. Jesus himself is Jewish, as well as Mary and his apostles/disciples. Moses, King David, and King Solomon - all amazing leaders - are all Jewish. Jesus specifically taught love for everyone, including one's enemies, so I can't for the life of me understand how people who call themselves Christians disobey and hate Jewish people or anybody.

 

The Jewish people in Arabia, after Muhammad rose in power, had a difficult time. Later on, they were expelled from Arabia, as well as were Christians.

Khalifa Umar bin al-Khattab - Umar as Caliph | Alim.org

 

Now, during Muslim conquests, many Muslim leaders were MUCH nicer to Jewish people than were "Christian" Gentile leaders. Again, I don't understand why "Christians" didn't obey Jesus' commands and understand that Jesus is Jewish. However, I greatly respect the Muslims who have been kind and tolerant to both Jewish people and Christians (who include Jewish people who have accepted Jesus as the Messiah as well as Gentiles), as well as to people of other beliefs, including to Hindus and Buddhists and Atheists.

 

To the present, right now there is a huge issue in between many Muslims and the Jewish people (or Zionists) in Israel. What saddens me is that instead of caring for the Jewish people, many who were horribly persecuted and amazingly survived Nazi cruelty as well as other cruelties in the past (like the Crusades and the Inquisitions), many Muslims seem to hate Jewish people (or "Zionists"). Both Sunnis and Shias seem to "unite" in their hatred of Jewish Israel (and America, though America includes people of many different ethnicities/beliefs). So, I do have to say that to the OP, this does concern me.

 

The harsh punishment for apostasy in Islam also concerns me. As for the punishment for apostasy in Judaism, most Jewish people do not abide by that; many Jewish people are Atheists and they are not killed by other Jewish people who believe in G-d, as far as I know. Hopefully they're not. Christians as well hopefully do not kill apostates anymore; Jesus by the way did not command hurting/killing those who left him, but rather focused on the belief of his faithful followers (John 6:64-69). I very much hope that in Muslim-dominated countries, freedom of religion will become a right people enjoy.

[wheream_i]

I have absolutely zero interest in learning about Islam, Muslim, etc. One of the few things I don't mind staying close-minded about. Sue me.

[BetheButterfly]

the Middle Ages you will see that Islam was far more tolerant at that time than Christianity and Islam at that time had a far more highly developed civilization than the Christian civilization of Europe of central Europe, Islam was in southern Europe also.

 

 

This is something that I don't understand at all, because Jesus Christ specifically commands love. So, I think much of this "Christian civilization" is actually not Christian (following Jesus Christ) but rather a product of the Roman Empire.

 

Excerpt of Eckhart Tolle - 'The Wisdom of Sufism'. If anyone is interested I'll post the video in its entirety.

I'd be interested in seeing that Mercy. Just saw you posted it... will watch it now!

[mercy]

This is something that I don't understand at all, because Jesus Christ specifically commands love. So, I think much of this "Christian civilization" is actually not Christian (following Jesus Christ) but rather a product of the Roman Empire.

 

 

I'd be interested in seeing that Mercy. Just saw you posted it... will watch it now!

 

I agree with the bold ^^^

 

I wish I could have found a better video.

 

He looks stoned the way the video drags.

[M30USA]

Please keep the discussion about the Islamic FAITH and not the Islamic culture. It doesn't matter who did what in the Middle Ages. The OP is about the FAITH--which, as far as I understand, is based on the Quran. Therefore this thread should be about the Quran.

[BetheButterfly]

I agree with the bold ^^^

 

I wish I could have found a better video.

 

He looks stoned the way the video drags.

 

Mercy I don't know if he looks stoned... He does make me sleepy though I'm so sorry.

 

He does make interesting points though... I'm listening but I confess I'm not watching anymore (though I'm still listening... ).He's talking about what Jesus said, "Pray without ceasing" and what he thinks that means, which I understand.

[BetheButterfly]

Please keep the discussion about the Islamic FAITH and not the Islamic culture. It doesn't matter who did what in the Middle Ages. The OP is about the FAITH--which, as far as I understand, is based on the Quran. Therefore this thread should be about the Quran.

 

I think it matters. It makes me so ashamed how many "Christians" in the Middle Ages behaved... they were NOT obeying Jesus' commands to love, that's for sure!

 

Opinions about any belief stem from many roots: the originators/leader(s) of the belief, religious book(s), culture, and what the followers do. If "Christians" during the time of the Middle Ages had been truly obeying Jesus' commands to love even their enemies, then so many of the horribly evil things that happened in Europe and even in the USA would NOT have happened!

 

Think how amazing life would be if Christians truly obeyed Jesus and loved!!! Would Christians migrating to the "New World" have killed Native Americans? Hopefully not!!! How can you kill someone you love??? Wouldn't you want to live peacefully with them??? If you loved someone, would you want to enslave them? How Christians could enslave others is beyond my ability to understand!! How could Christians enslave when Jesus clearly commands to love others???

 

Sad to say, all the injustices that many "Christians" have done are part of the "Christian civilization."

 

Thankfully, some Christians who truly take Jesus' commands seriously have radically helped changed the world for the better, including William Wilberforce, Elijah Lovejoy, Martin Luther King. Jr, Rosa Parks, Mother Theresa, and many other people.

 

Back to the video, I like the words, "Wake up, Wake up, sleep no more!" What book is he reading? I forgot. Sufi poems are very interesting and thought-provoking.

 

I like the dog story where the dog leaped into the water and the other dog (his reflection) went away. That is cool... cool meaning about the image of himself...

 

... I like how he's talking about negativity dissolving, as well as letting go of bitterness and how important that is...

Edited November 13, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[mercy]

If you want great wealth,

and that which lasts forever,

Wake up!

 

If you want to shine

with the love of the Beloved,

Wake up!

 

You've slept a hundred nights,

And what has it brought you?

 

For your self, for your God,

Wake up! Wake up!

Sleep no more.

 

~ Jalaluddin Rumi

[fortyninethousand322]

Please keep the discussion about the Islamic FAITH and not the Islamic culture. It doesn't matter who did what in the Middle Ages. The OP is about the FAITH--which, as far as I understand, is based on the Quran. Therefore this thread should be about the Quran.

 

The Qur'an, the Sunnah, Fiqh, there's a lot that goes into the faith.

 

Basically in order for one to be a Muslim you have to believe that there is only one God and that Muhammad is his prophet. After that is where the disagreements begin...