Shared her in an MMF, now I'm going crazy

[Ruby Slippers]

Why would you continue having sex with others and being with someone who's having sex with others when what you really want is to be exclusive?

 

Just man up and tell her what you want - a monogamous relationship with her. No other women, no other men. Then lose the other women.

 

If she doesn't agree, or agrees but doesn't keep her commitment, dump her and move on.

 

It is putting yourself first to go for what you want, and move on if that person doesn't give it to you, so you can find someone who will.

[Mme. Chaucer]

After all the dust settles from this situation, what have you learned that will help you make decisions going forward?

 

Maybe a FWB situation with someone you have / had feelings for (or from, or both) isn't a good idea.

 

Maybe you're not cut out for threesomes?

[ottavit16]

Sadintexas, that's some great feedback. Thank you very much. I will have to write that down. It's always good to hear the opinions of the fairer sex on this matter, especially when they're a third party. You're right about the defensive stuff - in the back of my mind, relationships are like a "war" where there is a constant power struggle. I'm going through cognitive therapy to help change this mindset. I'm attempting to behave more altruistically and unconditionally giving, while maintaining my boundaries and self respect. It's a fine line, and certainly not easy for me.

 

Chaucer, the "lessons learned" is a large reason of why I haven't walked away yet. Regardless of the outcome, I will learn and grow as a person. That above all is what is most important to me. In any case, almost every FWB relationship is going to end badly, as one or the other will develop feelings for the other person. At that point it's just delaying the inevitable... but will continuing an FWB with someone you do have feelings for 'tie you up' so to speak, that it will hold you back developing feelings for someone else? People lose attraction/feelings in relationships all the time, and that's why they stray or leave them.

 

As far as threesomes, I'm definitely cut out for them - as long as I can trust my partner to be open, honest, and not leave/cheat afterwards. It's a risk you take every time, allowing your partner to be sexual with someone else, but it can also show security in your relationship if it's already strong. The problem in this case is that it's not very strong. It's a double edged sword - as almost any man will find a FFM threesome exciting, I also find a MMF exciting because of how much pleasure it brings for the girl. It makes her happy, and that makes me happy. Just as how someone hitting on your s/o should be flattering, letting them have a sample of what I get to have on a regular basis and seeing how awesome sex with my woman is also a turn on. But if I can't trust my woman, then it would just facilitate an early end to the relationship that obviously wasn't meant to be. Threesomes are definitely a test of a relationship, and how secure you both are in it. Though I would also argue, you're better off experimenting when you're all relative strangers and little/no feelings are involved... of course, safety becomes more of an issue then. After all, I believe that if someone wants to cheat they will, and there's little you can do to stop them. All you can control is what you do after you find out, and learn when to walk away from a bad situation.

 

Sorry if "my woman" sounds possessive. Male ego talking.

 

I've posted this topic on another (male-centric) forum and the advice I'm getting there is to wait until there's more time vested in the relationship to have "the talk". Also, to let her be the one to bring it up or steer conversation towards it. Telling her "I don't want you to be with anyone else" will make her want it even more - I stand by 'people want what they can't have' to a letter. But to search my feelings, and be ready to say exactly what I want when it does come up. There has to be a happy medium between that advice and what I'm getting on here. Simply telling her out of the blue "Can we talk?" or "We need to talk" will definitely make her uneasy at the very least.

 

Thanks again to everyone for the responses here.

[Quest4_TheLost]

Yes, saying (We need to talk) always puts ppl on edge. They usually think the worst and if not still can make it uneasy. I agree you should just tell her though. Why delay it?

 

I prefer the method of springing it on them at the right moment instead of (We have to talk). When your hanging out and the mood and moment is right bring it up. You don't have to make it anymore awkward then it has to be by simply saying (I have feelings for you and am wondering what you think of being exlusive).. Thats not even a talk its a simple question that will be followed with an answer. Get it over with I think you will be better off in the long run.

[ottavit16]

Thanks for simplifying it, quest. Making mountains out of molehills, I am. Low pressure. If she's not interested in the possibility, then things remain the same and I can abate any odd feelings I have knowing they are unrequited. Being interested, is a whole other conversation I am preparing myself to handle. I have a feeling that she will say she is interested, but not ready/undecided or just saying it to keep me on board. Either way, I suppose I'll use this topic to keep up. I love how active the loveshack forums are!

 

Pierre, no, I'm not bi. The other guy wore a condom, and came in that. I know it's difficult to grasp for most people, but an MMF threesome is still some men's fantasy, including mine, even if they're straight. I will admit, I did have some bi-curious thoughts... but I've kissed a guy before, and it was a major turn off. Matter of fact, beforehand, the other guy admitted that while very much into girls, had gay sex as a teenager. Does experimenting with the same sex make you gay? No, not in my opinion. But you'll know afterwards if you are. Most of my gay friends started with girls because it was the social norm.

 

Anyways, would I prefer a FFM? Of course. Especially if both women were bi (less work for me to do!). But am I selfish prick? No.

 

The girl in my scenario has set up THREE FFM situations before, but twice the other girl wasn't interested at all, and the third I only ended up having sex with the other girl, then my girl a few hours later. Interesting story I won't really get into, but I made sure to ask before I penetrated the other girl! I actually felt really uncomfortable afterwards, leaving my girl out despite her insisting it. That's how most threesomes go wrong - somebody (usually the regular partner) gets ignored in favor of the third party, and I refuse to sabotage a good threesome opportunity just to have a go at "the new girl". Unless, of course, I was just looking for an opportunity to sleep with someone I was considering leaving my girlfriend for... which is a really cowardly thing to do in the first place.

[ottavit16]

So I haven't said anything, or brought up any "talk" yet. Counter advice I've heard is to be patient and show intention through action, and lead her to it. I almost brought it up, though.

 

Wednesday night she came over (her idea), lots of cuddling but she asked to not have sex, didn't want to feel pressured and just wanted some "physical contact". Well that was fine until around 2am when I woke up and touched her a little, she started moaning, and one thing lead to another... to be honest, it seems like she just preferred sleep over sex but it was hard to tell. I felt a bit ego damaged from the other night (of the threesome) I wanted to "reassure" myself with some regular sex. ****, whatever, I was horny and she didn't stop me. I attempted to kiss her more than I usually do. While cuddling after, she noticed something was up with me and asked "what's wrong" but I avoided answering. She didn't press it. I don't like bring up stuff like that when we're about to go to bed, but maybe it's just my fear of what she'd say talking as well. But between that and that conversation on Monday, I think I am definitely giving her clear signs that something is up with me (leading to her to it).

 

The day after, she left something at my place, and I offered to take it up to her that afternoon. I had myself mentally stoked - "You really want to know what was wrong last night? I've realized I've developed some strong feelings for you, but I don't know if you're interested in the possibility of something more exclusive." - however, when I got to her room, her roommate was there and I chickened out.

 

Back to the Original Topic:

Now that I've had a few days to calm down, I'm more secure about it. Although this other guy was really attractive and gave her some great sex, I know that I've personally given her a lot of great sex as well, and consider myself much better "relationship material" than the other guy anyways. If she chooses to pursue him for those superficial reasons/infatuation, it would just be an easy facilitation to an end, and I would go back to treating it as just FWB again.

 

On a side note, I've became better friends with the other guy as well. We swapped some interesting stories yesterday... I figure having his confidence will at least help direct my intentions, and to catch her in a lie if necessary (if they hook up he will tell me). On a side note, I HATE when I catch someone lying. Honesty is just too important to me. I insist to tell me the hard truth, instead of letting me find out from someone else. This girl has lied to me before, but only about things involving sex. It's the only real issue I have with her, though. But that's a whole other topic...

 

Like I said, the other advice I got on this was to SHOW my intention through actions, instead of force some kind of "what are we" decision from her. To be patient, and let things go where they will. I think I have been doing that, at least since her breakup:

 

I've taken her to dinner. Three times.

I bought her some flowers (lillies, her favorite). I never have before, even when we dated. They were inexpensive.

I bought her some sexy lingerie. This was after a conversation where she admitted that nobody has ever gotten her lingerie before.

There's been a couple nights where she stayed over, and I didn't push sex nor did we have it.

We do nonsexual activities together, mostly cooking and shopping.

I've gotten closer with her friends, and met more of them.

I do little favors (like bringing her something she forgot at my place) without expecting anything in return.

Made her breakfast when she last stayed over. Sincerely thanked me.

 

Maybe I'm just spending cash on her, or being a bit of a doormat, but I've got pretty limited relationship experience, and significantly more money than her right now. What are some other ways I can show that I want more?

[iiiii]

The only other way is to actually have the conversation with her. After buying her flowers, lingerie, and cooking her breakfast, this WON'T come as a surprise to her! She's probably waiting for you to bring it up.

 

Buying her more stuff before asking isn't going to change her answer either way.

[ottavit16]

Alright ladies and gents, I've got an update for the situation.

 

Without going into storytime, or how it was brought up, I basically told her that I was developing feelings for her again. I told her I wasn't in love with her, and didn't want her to be my girlfriend, but that of all of the women I've been with since my last girlfriend she's the only one I've ever wanted more. That feeling wasn't going to going go away completely.

 

As you may have guessed, she told me that while we have a great friendship and the sex is good, that she doesn't have those kind of feelings towards me. That this was the first time in her college life she was truly single, and was enjoying her freedom. Later that night (last night) I invited a new romantic interest of mine over that was interested in a threesome, and she ended up playing counselor to our "relationship" for several hours.

 

My interpretation of the situation is likely as such: she currently believes that nothing will compare to the love she felt for her last ex of three years, and most likely that's not going to change anytime soon (read: several months or years). When her and I first started talking, her ex started dating someone new and went no contact with her, so I was basically her rebound. We became FWB then, then she told me "real relationship or just friends" and I of course chose the former. She attests that an incident that happened then which broke her trust in me is why she will never feel that way again, so I can do nothing but accept that.

 

Over the next week, we won't be seeing each other due to Thanksgiving break. I have to decide what I really want: do I really want a relationship with this woman, or can I accept just friends with benefits? I would rather be in an actual relationship with whomever I happen to be having sex with, so I wonder if continuing being friends with her (even without benefits) will keep me emotionally hung up on her. And if I do decide "girlfriend or nothing" then will continue to settle for FWB sabotage any hope of something more?

 

She IS my friend first and foremost, and I do care about her. I think going no/limited contact is the best way for me to reduce/eliminate any feelings I have towards her, although the talk certainly put things in perspective. But I wouldn't want to just pull the rug out from under someone I consider a friend, but in the end it's going to happen once one of us starts dating someone else. I know that once I start a new relationship with someone else, that this woman will become an echo in my life - I wouldn't want my significant other being so close to her ex, and vice versa. I've tried before to just be friends without benefits, but it never seems to work as once we're alone the attraction remains and sex continues.

 

I am CONTENT with this relationship, as it allows me many benefits of a relationship without much of the responsibilities that come with it, and that's beneficial for me to focus on myself and my schoolwork/career. But if I can't stop myself from wanting more, then it's probably best to tell her that I can't settle for less than a relationship, and if she's not willing to try it's best that we don't see each other at all. However, the companionship and sexual adventures is not really something I want to just give up either. I don't really get it, I guess. I've had FWB type situations in the past, and in all cases but her and another girl (the one I was seeing after our breakup) I was in control of where I wanted it to go. I understand now how most women feel in an FWB relationship - how could they want to be friends, hang out all the time, cuddle, date, sleep together - yet not be interested in things going further?

 

I always read things about how women have a much harder time than men separating emotions from sex, and it's strange to me to be on the other side of it. Perhaps it comes down to the basic human condition that people want what they can't have. If I'm always putting forth this vibe that I was a relationship, attractive women may see it as needy and clingy, that I will become a doormat and put them on a pedastal which is a position nobody wants to be in. But at the same time, if I maintain that all I want is FWB with a woman, and they want more because I don't, then isn't it guaranteed to fail once I decide that I do? Once the thrill of the chase is gone, then you'd be left without any challenge.

 

Of my two "real" relationships before (lasting over a year) it was quite simple. I like you, you like me, get to know each other while we escalate things sexually, but once we start actually having sex then to become boyfriend and girlfriend. And when both of those ended, real issues such as life goals and compatibility/trust/respect were compromised, despite sex remaining quite good. I slept with both of them after the title was gone, but it wasn't until we found other people and stopped contact that we actually moved on. I think that's how relationships should be. I don't like this "college hookup culture" where many relationships start as a FWB type situation... it's all very complicated to me. Why can't things be simple? I like you, you like me, we get along, let's try dating? You shouldn't have to be "in love" with someone, or want to spend the rest of your life with them - isn't the point of dating to see if that happens or not?

 

All these questions aside, my real dilemma boils down to one question. Is this an issue I should best resolve without her in my life, or while continuing this relationship?

[Ceran]

she is a whore

 

you sound pretty sexually successful so you're probably a good looking guy, just move on and find a nice girl if you want an exclusive LTR, otherwise what are you doing?

[NoMoreJerks]

I invited a new romantic interest of mine over that was interested in a threesome

Wow, I must say, you and your "romantic" interests are quite ...... interesting... in a disgusting sort of way, though. So you bring up threesomes with your romantic interest.... and you're expecting that this thing you have with this 'new' interest of yours will go very far ?? You're so misguided.. i don't even know what the hell you're doing or want to do.

[Ceran]

its a brave new world

[ottavit16]

Heh, no, I should have specified on the "Romantic interest" part. She was a girl I went on a date with a couple weeks ago, but she didn't interest me very much as a possible LTR. I have little expectations that anything serious will develop with her, so I asked her if at least she would be interested in having a threesome with us. So the three of us hung out at my place last night, and lo and behold both girls got along quite well so it's still on the table. Now the new girl said the same thing about me being "misguided", but after talking to us both and the nature of our FWB, she seems to understand my position. First priority, find a girl for possible LTR, but second priority is find a girl who is a potential threesome partner. For those judging me about threesomes and stuff, please stop, as this is something I've never really gotten to explore in my life and would like to do so while I have the opportunity. If I'm really a poly-amorous guy, I'd like to figure that out now while I have the chance.

 

Don't call her a whore. Thanks for bumping the topic, but otherwise get bent.

 

Moving on is pretty solid advice, and one I'm going to take. It's mainly the "how" that gets me... I think I should be able to continue this casual relationship while being on the lookout for a serious one.

[NoMoreJerks]

Heh, no, I should have specified on the "Romantic interest" part. She was a girl I went on a date with a couple weeks ago, but she didn't interest me very much as a possible LTR. I have little expectations that anything serious will develop with her, so I asked her if at least she would be interested in having a threesome with us. So the three of us hung out at my place last night, and lo and behold both girls got along quite well so it's still on the table. Now the new girl said the same thing about me being "misguided", but after talking to us both and the nature of our FWB, she seems to understand my position. First priority, find a girl for possible LTR, but second priority is find a girl who is a potential threesome partner. For those judging me about threesomes and stuff, please stop, as this is something I've never really gotten to explore in my life and would like to do so while I have the opportunity. If I'm really a poly-amorous guy, I'd like to figure that out now while I have the chance.

 

Don't call her a whore. Thanks for bumping the topic, but otherwise get bent.

 

Moving on is pretty solid advice, and one I'm going to take. It's mainly the "how" that gets me... I think I should be able to continue this casual relationship while being on the lookout for a serious one.

OK, so your way of resolving this situation with your real "romantic" interest is to bring in another woman to have a threesome with you? You all sound INCREDIBLY immature to me.

[dasein]

OP if there is emotional content on your end, consider that you may be fooling yourself that you can back into a strictly physical thing. Would go NC for awhile, date others, and -then- after a few months, once emotions are in check, continue the relationship as purely sexual with no expectations whatsoever if the opportunity presents.

 

Here's the test. If she comes to see you sporting an engagement ring, would you be "going crazy" again, as you described your reaction to the MMF? If so, it's not time to proceed with the NSA yet. If she came to you with the engagement ring on and you really mean a response along the lines of "that's cool, guess we can't f-ck any more, oh well he's a lucky guy," then you are in the clear for NSA. Good luck.

[ottavit16]

NoMoreJerks, you seem very narrow minded to me. An interest in swinging or polyamory does NOT equate to immaturity. Bringing someone else into the bedroom does not "resolve" ANYTHING, it's just one of the "benefits" I would be giving up should I cut contact with this girl. As I said before, this girl is the first I've been with where I've had the chance to explore these options, and if I decide to do it then it's MY lifestyle choice.

 

Dasein, thanks again for your reply. To answer your question, if I saw her next sporting an engagement ring, would I go crazy? Absolutely not. But I don't think that's a good example, because if she's the type of person to accept marriage without building much on a new relationship, she wasn't worth investing in anyways. Or, if it was her ex, I would say "Best of luck to you, I hope it works out this time!" with a big smile on my face. Don't get me wrong - once she's in a new relationship, that is a big brick wall reason to end benefits (and most contact from me). I was originally "going crazy" because she'd make the other guy her main FWB. However, between talking to him and hanging out with her, I don't think much is going to change; as a matter of fact, things might be even better now. But since that threesome, we've also had that talk now - which to me, is another brick wall to anything past NSA. For the next 7 days, we won't be hanging out nor will I contact her without good reason.

 

Here's a situation I know for sure is coming up. She's been telling me about a male friend of hers that she used to hang out with, she wants to "see where it goes". He will come to visit one weekend, and she will be "incommunicado" for 24 hours. I am well aware of these outcomes:

 

a)Nothing happens between them. Never has before, anyways.

b)Something happens between them, but it doesn't get serious.

c)Something happens between them, but it has "relationship potential", so their arrangement continues.

d)Something happens, they decide to be exclusive right then and there.

 

The outcomes of A and B don't affect me very much. I kind of hope she has sex with him, or at least they talk, so that's one less question on her mind.

 

If C happens, it's also not a bad thing, because without exclusivity (he's long distance) then it will give me more good reason to keep it NSA and prepare for the end. She would likely keep me up to date on their relationship, so at least I'd see the end coming.

 

If D happens, then I will be upset at the loss (especially sex) but also affirmed that she wasn't worth investing in. If she's so easily swayed into another committed relationship with a long distance guy, then she's not the type of girlfriend I would want.

 

Would I "go crazy" again? I don't know. Yeah, if she ended our "relationship" to make someone else her main "FWB", that would ****ing suck for sure. And according to the other guy in the MMF, that's all he would have wanted from her. I would be much more okay if she ended it because she entered some exclusive bf/gf situation, because I could tell myself to just be happy for her and that she doesn't need me anymore. She may not actually NEED me right now, but it's obvious that she does care about me and appreciates our friendship and what it brings for her. In her words, someone that she likes, feels comfortable with, likes sleeping next to, and enjoys having sex with. Obviously, she doesn't have a better option for those needs (she does have options though) so if I can accept my feelings as moot then I don't see why I can't continue to provide that for her. If she finds someone else first, then of course I will miss her, but I've been single more than not in my life and can do it again. Hell, when she broke up with me in the first place I was back out meeting women in a week. I'll lose a couple days of sleep, cry to some friends, bitch on some forums, and get over it.

 

I've been doing more homework on this lately. It seems that the wisest option to me is to just remove my feelings from the situation and continue the FWB. To let the cards play out as they may, and accept that any day I could lose the benefits forever. Prior to 3 weeks ago (her breakup) I had told myself that as well, and lo and behold she broke up with him anyway. I can respect her decision to want to be single, and I'm going to make damned sure I'm less available to her and start seeing other women. What do they say, if it's meant to be it'll be? For now, I'll just be her friend, and if we both want benefits then so be it. But when the benefits end, so do the dates, the sleepovers, the flowers... but maybe those should end now? I mean, I do have a female friend that comes over once a week and stays in my bed, but we don't fool around. To be honest, she may be harboring feelings for me, but that's part of the reason I want to keep it platonic. But trying to do that with my ex... I'm not going to be able to keep my hands off her. As we've agreed before, if we're both single, ****'s gonna happen. She says she can take or leave the sex - yet, I've been DIRECTLY propositioned (either by phone or in person) by her, so like I said, single = ****s gonna happen.

 

I'd also like to hear of any FWB turned relationship stories, from men or women. I know how they always END (I've ended several myself) but curious to see ones that play into successful relationships, and why they remained just FWB for the time that they did. Just getting out of a serious relationship is a very good reason in my opinion, and is what is helping me accept just FWB in my situation.

[dasein]

I've been doing more homework on this lately. It seems that the wisest option to me is to just remove my feelings from the situation and continue the FWB.

 

Man, if you can really do that, more power to you, I couldn't. Especially in a situation where the girl was occupying lots of my mental landscape as this one is yours. Still feel if you spend some time finding other options, and remove from this one for awhile, things will turn out better for you. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

Oh, also, the engagement ring thought experiment was strictly about how you would -feel- in the moment were you to see that, not what it would say about her choices, but the immediate visceral response in you. If that response is "CRAP!" I don't think you can continue NSA at this time without more mental stress and angst. If that response is "meh," or "oh well," then you are in the emotional place to do NSA. Be honest with yourself. A nice piece can really mess your mind, I know where you are at, and have rationalized all manner of things to keep that tail coming. We are weak in certain ways. In retrospect, I would have been better off spending my time elsewhere, and wish I'd had someone to give me a schmack and yell "Wake the f up!" in my face:laugh:. Hopefully things will be different for you though, and this will turn out well.

[Sugarkane]

Wow The mythical MMF. Can you tell me how on earth you convince a guy to do this?! It's just about impossible.

[Sugarkane]

Wow The mythical MMF. Can you tell me how on earth you convince a guy to do this?! It's just about impossible. How does that conversation go?

[ottavit16]

Sugar, I assume you are asking how she convinced me to do this? Because as a third guy, "hey wanna bang this hot girl with me" is pretty easy to do... but convincing your partner to have any threesome is never going to work unless they want to do it as well, and I did.

[NoMoreJerks]

NoMoreJerks, you seem very narrow minded to me. An interest in swinging or polyamory does NOT equate to immaturity. Bringing someone else into the bedroom does not "resolve" ANYTHING, it's just one of the "benefits" I would be giving up should I cut contact with this girl. As I said before, this girl is the first I've been with where I've had the chance to explore these options, and if I decide to do it then it's MY lifestyle choice.

Are you for real? You want to keep your options open, while AT THE SAME TIME trying to win over a girl? And you try to win her over by suggesting MFF threesomes with her? Looks like you're both playing each other. If you were serious about this girl, you wouldn't be pulling this sort of **** on her , just as you expect her not to be pulling this sort of **** on you. Like I said, you both sound immature and are behaving like typical "players", and this is irrespective of what my personal views on threesomes are.

[peytondoll]

I've been FWB with my exgf lately. In a many ways, it feels like an open relationship without a title. AFAIK, we've been exclusive for the last 6 weeks. But I suspect that's about to change... her "loyalty" was just tested the other night. Let me give some details.

 

Her and I "dated" over 6 months ago, started as LDR/FWB situation but she literally begged to be my gf. I had just come out of a really bad breakup (so had she) so I had real reservations, but decided to give it a shot. I thought I'd found "the one" - amazing cook, cleans, closer to my age (23 vs me, 2, and ****ing top notch sexually. Bisexual, anal, threesomes, BDSM, you name it, this girl's a freak. But between distance me going AFC (becoming too comfortable), she broke up with me. I realize that it was only infatuation, and I moved on.. or so I thought. I saw other women, I sharpened my game. 3 months of NC, then she moves to where I am, calls me to hang out, and before long we're ****ing.

 

We've been doing this for about 10 weeks. She always got hung up on the sex, attributing this mainly to having to hide it from her ex boyfriend before me - the "love of her life". He contacted her shortly after her and I broke up, and were planning to get back together. Two weeks ago she "broke up" with him (but remained in contact), and things definitely changed with her and I. Things got more intimate, less secretive, and she started coming over a lot more. The majority of time, she initiates contact/hangouts. Sex is getting better, and more frequent. I accept that like before, this is just a rebound and I should take it for what it is - companionship and sex.

 

I know that in the back of my mind I should not fall for her again. I'm trying to follow all this pua advice: respect myself first, let her bring 'what are we' up, don't get needy, give great sex... I had been trying to keep my emotions in check, and I've been pretty good at it until now... the events of last night have got me really thinking.

 

Long story short, we had an MMF threesome last night with a casual friend of mine (and hers lately). It was very weird for me at first seeing her penetrated by another guy, but after I got into it myself it was actually really hot. Well, to make things worse this is a guy she's had a big crush on (big blue eyes, and a big dick) so figuring she'd **** him sooner or later anyway, I decided to bring him in for the threeway. She's taking this as a green light to **** him on her own, although my actions have shown that this bothers me (the look on my face when she talks about it). The thing is, I'm really NOT okay with her ****ing him without me, and I'm not sure how to communicate this without coming off as insecure/jealous. Perhaps this is just a common fear people have in the aftermath of threesomes. How does this sound:

 

"Listen, what happened the other night was a lot of fun, but I'm really not okay with you and him ****ing around without me."

 

The stupid thing is, she should personally know better, since she was in my shoes once. In the past, she had a threesome with her then current boyfriend and a chick friend of his. Turns out that boyfriend broke up with her and started dating the other girl. Maybe I can use this to instill a bit of empathy?

 

Another thing she was talking about was this traveling friend of hers, another 3rd party we had considered for MMF. I asked her if she was planning to mess around with him, and shes like oh yeah, that's a possible relationship you know? This makes me think she's either a)trying to make me jealous or b)using me until someone with actual relationship potential comes along.

 

It made me feel physically ill. Sharing her with another guy, I admit was actually kind of fun. But aside from that, I want her all to myself. See, the biggest problem her and I had when we actually dated was the distance. I insisted to wait until it was a non-factor before actually dating, and we agreed to an "open relationship". Big ****ing surprise that failed. I turned into a chump and she found a new guy at work that she ended up dating over the summer (even bigger chump). Obviously now that distance isn't a factor, things are going pretty well. I never thought she'd ****can her other ex, considering their relationship, but she did.

 

Part of me wants to force the question, but I know better. You know.. "what are we"? On one hand, I think sometimes I am just being used. On the other, it seems she's genuinely quite fond of me, and getting very attached. The classic case of mixed signals. All I know is that at this moment, I've never wanted to be exclusive with her these last ten weeks as I do right now. I mean, it feels so much like a relationship already, right now it's like I wanna say "either **** this **** or we get back together and see if it works" but I know I can't. She dumped me, she has to bring it up. A female friend advised me that if I was serious about her, then to stop seeing other women... but from a PUA perspective, that seems counterproductive.

 

So I figure if nothing else, this is a good loyalty/trust test. If she starts ****ing the other guy, especially behind my back, she's getting the axe. I'll find out from him if I need to. Matter of fact, next time I see him I'm going to ask to see his text conversations with her. Then I'll know where I stand. In the meantime, I would really appreciate any encouragement/support/advice/critcism/insults on what I can do. It's really wracking my brain.

 

Well Id say there is no trust and this girl is not trustworthy. However, if you swapped pronouns and this were a case of a female sharing her boyfriend in a FFM Id be saying the same exact thing.

 

Threesomes do not belong in a relationship (at least a healthy one where two people are in REAL love...unless there are attachment/mental health issues) Just my opinion though

 

I can tell by the way you describe her and the way you talk about "the game" you are a PUA believer. I am doubting you really love her and its a competition/possessiveness thing because you describe her like she is your object. I run away from men like you.

Edited November 19, 2012 by peytondoll

[peytondoll]

NoMoreJerks, you seem very narrow minded to me. An interest in swinging or polyamory does NOT equate to immaturity.

.

 

Not immaturity but narcissism for sure. I have never met a man who is into swinging or polygyny that isnt narcissistic and I have met ALOT of men that have this view (I work at a sex clinic).

 

Find a narcissistic woman for yourself so you can live this lifestyle and make it work for you.

 

The fact that you want to win over another girl while being possessive of her speaks alot about yourself. I love it when a guy expects to have a girl for himself but not the other way around. Honestly, no words are even worth throwing at you- because narcissistic people think there is nothing wrong with them.

Edited November 19, 2012 by peytondoll

[ottavit16]

Well Id say there is no trust and this girl is not trustworthy. However, if you swapped pronouns and this were a case of a female sharing her boyfriend in a FFM Id be saying the same exact thing.

 

Threesomes do not belong in a relationship (at least a healthy one where two people are in REAL love...unless there are attachment/mental health issues) Just my opinion though

 

I can tell by the way you describe her and the way you talk about "the game" you are a PUA believer. I am doubting you really love her and its a competition/possessiveness thing because you describe her like she is your object. I run away from men like you.

 

You're correct in the trust department. Her and I are not dating, loyal, committed, or really in love with each other in any way. We never were, or likely ever will be. The original point of this topic was that I was unsure how I felt about her until the MMF in my OP, then I realized that I did not want to share her outside of threesomes. Perhaps you are correct in that it's just a competition/possessiveness thing, as anyone with half a brain can tell you that is how the male ego is wired. I made this topic to get outside opinions, and to help sort out how the actions of both she and I could be interpreted.

 

The vast majority of people agree that if you were truly in love with your partner, then you would not want to share them with anyone. Period. I used to agree with this 100%, but since I don't believe I've ever been truly in love I cannot say for certain. What I can say, is that there is a part of me that fantasizes about sharing your partner - I covered why in an earlier post. I don't expect anyone to understand how I can believe that watching another man please my partner thrills me, but it was something I had fantasized about for years and had the opportunity to do so. The actual threesome was quite incredible once I became comfortable with the situation... because I was involved. To think of your significant other (in any case) being with someone else when you aren't involved is a totally different story - that's cheating. There's many reasons why cheating is so devastating and damaging, as I'm sure many people here could attest to either being cheaters or being cheated on in the past.

 

To those saying why I would pursue other women if I was interested in being serious with this one, it's because SHE DOES NOT FEEL THE SAME WAY. This was assumed when I made the topic, and a couple days ago she told me it bluntly. As for the FFM line of conversation, and why I want it, there's the obvious reason; for me. It's MY fantasy, and I see an opportunity through her to fulfill it. Purely selfish. But the other reason, and the reason I am trying to find another girl that is bisexual is because then it would fulfill a fantasy of hers at the same time. Every FFM threesome this girl has had was with her s/o and another straight girl, and when her s/o and the other girl started having sex she got left out. If the other girl is also bisexual, this is much less likely to happen.

 

The ONLY reason I am seeking other women is because this one is not willing to be exclusive. Obviously, I am of the mindset that there is no other woman I want to be with right now, but she doesn't feel the same way. Since I met her, I have NEVER chosen to be with another woman when she was available.

 

Since my feelings are unrequited, I can choose to either pursue other women or not. One argument (made by mostly women) is that I should not if I want to be serious with this one. Why, so I can put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak? Do you really think showing her that I don't desire anyone else will magically make her come around? The other argument (made by men and PUA) is that dating other women will do several things for me. It will give me more of a safety net for when this one does leave, and she likely will. It makes me a challenge, knowing that other women are interested in me. It instills a fear of loss within her, knowing that I could leave at any time. And most importantly, I'll stop pining over someone that will never feel that way about me in return.

 

Yes, you're correct in that I study PUA. I have been for about a year. I just got out of a 2 year relationship that ended badly (we both cheated on each other) and got tired of friends and family saying I "could do so much better". I studied PUA to help improve myself, gain confidence, and be the kind of person that quality women would want to date. A lot of women despise PUA teachings... well let me tell you, it's only a tool. Jerks will be jerks, and it's up to you to make that call. But there's a lot of genuinely "nice guys" out there that just don't understand the mechanics of attraction... these guys always get told "you'll make some lucky woman very happy some day" or "I wish I had a boyfriend like you" but because they simply SUCK at being a strong, confident, passionate guy with self respect, they sit back on the sidelines and watch their female friends fall for one douchebag after the next.

 

PUA is a skill, that gives you more power in your interactions with dating if so applied. I despise guys that use it simply to have more one night stands, become players, and get that "revenge" on women because they feel so rejected their entire lives that by breaking all of these hearts they will feel better. Well, I've seen these guys... they don't. They are extremely lonely, with poor self esteem that needs to be validated through sex. They mistreat and abuse women, emotionally and sometimes physically. Women who hate the PUA industry usually do because of these kinds of guys, the "players". Don't hate me because I want to learn their skillset of attraction women, but actually treat them well because I consider myself a genuinely nice guy at heart. I'm far from perfect, and I've done a lot of ****ty things... but it's a work in progress.

 

Damn, how did I get so far off topic? Thanks for reading, people, I'm very much enjoying this little debate we have going here. As defensive as I get, I love being called on my bull****. Better than just having people agree with me.

[spiderowl]

Maybe you are both playing the same 'game' and making it clear that you are not committed to each other alone. But, you want to be and the gamble is will she want the same as you? The indicators are not good on this front. She seems to want an entirely open relationship with no commitment at all. That's not a relationship.

 

What have you got to lose by laying your cards on the table and telling her what you want? OK, she may dump you again and go her own way, but what have you lost? Regular sex but tainted by the knowledge that you are not the only one (and currently neither is she)? Maybe it's worth giving that up if you are uncomfortable with the state of affairs.

 

You can't expect fidelity if you are not prepared to sacrifice your freedom to have other women too. What's wrong with letting her know you will do that if she is prepared to make the same commitment?

 

How would you feel if she committed to you? Would she lose value in your eyes because you had 'won' her? There does seem to be some sort of powerplay going on here and she is playing you are your own game. If you want to stop the game, you have to be prepared to stick to the rules too. Of course, it could be that she's a free spirit who will look for any excuse to sleep with other guys. If that's the case, you lose either way.

[ottavit16]

I did tell her what I want: I said I was starting to have feelings and interested in something more exclusive. She was not. The nature of the "relationship" has not changed, if anything it has improved it. She previous felt like I was just using her for sex anyways. Now I just have confirmation to not invest anything more emotionally and pursue other women in the meantime.

 

Once a rebound, always a rebound I suppose. Of course, between her inability to let go of her real ex boyfriend and some undiagnosed personality disorder, it's not that difficult using logic to talk myself out of wanting more. I am just taking comfort that I am her #1 choice for "fun" (locally anyways) and will enjoy the ride while it lasts.

 

I would never expect anything from my partner I wasn't willing to give myself.

 

Thanks everyone again for keeping the topic alive. Even the haters. World needs you too.