Atheists and Atheism

[The nihilst chick]

A lot of atheists are in the closet.And I understand why. Sure we are not being hanged,raped,abused like blacks,Jews,gays and etc were or in the case of gays still r. Notice i say WERE. There is racism antisemitsm but people recognize that as wrong today and most condemn it. It is even getting better for gays, and many are changing views on gay marriage etc. Not atheists.i came out atheists and gosh my dad slammed me down saying oh science cant help you etc.science is not my god or anything.my stepmom said she thought it pessmistc i didnt believe in a higher power. My sister said ill burn in hell.my other one said dont bring her down with me.it is just negative views.see if you believe in some deity there is some respect.its like to muslims, jews etc you are worshipping the wrong way etc but hey that ur god.a atheist? It is a big no everyone is like how can you not believe in god? How can you not believe in zeus isis etc?I love how ppl act like god and religion r so flawless when they are not and atheism is plain evil when atheism has no doctrine.it is just absence of belief in gods.

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[BetheButterfly]

A lot of atheists are in the closet.And I understand why. Sure we are not being hanged,raped,abused like blacks,Jews,gays and etc were or in the case of gays still r. Notice i say WERE. There is racism antisemitsm but people recognize that as wrong today and most condemn it. It is even getting better for gays, and many are changing views on gay marriage etc. Not atheists.i came out atheists and gosh my dad slammed me down saying oh science cant help you etc.science is not my god or anything.my stepmom said she thought it pessmistc i didnt believe in a higher power. My sister said ill burn in hell.my other one said dont bring her down with me.it is just negative views.see if you believe in some deity there is some respect.its like to muslims, jews etc you are worshipping the wrong way etc but hey that ur god.a atheist? It is a big no everyone is like how can you not believe in god? How can you not believe in zeus isis etc?I love how ppl act like god and religion r so flawless when they are not and atheism is plain evil when atheism has no doctrine.it is just absence of belief in gods.

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

I am sorry that you are facing discrimination because of what you believe, or a lack of belief in God/gods.

 

It is your right to believe what you believe is true. It is your right to think how you want, be it your political views, be it your spiritual outlook on life, be it your goals and desires and dreams. All of it is your right!!!

 

If you think that you are in danger by your family, please get help. Are you in the USA, yes? Please take care and make sure to be safe. That's very important. If your Dad or your sister ever hit you or try to force you to be anything you don't want to be, please contact authorities and get out. Please be safe.

 

People are diverse. People think different things. That's a part of the diversity of life on earth. It doesn't make you a bad person at all that you don't believe in God. It just means you don't believe what other people do. That's ok. There are many other people who don't believe in God. Many are good people. Please find some great role models that are Atheists. Do you go to high school, yeah? Tell your teachers that you are Atheist and that your Dad is mad at you. Make sure to keep a public profile, ok?

 

Please take care. Again, I am sorry you are facing persecution from your family. It is your right to follow what you think is true, even if that's different than what your Dad and sis think!

[River Rain]

A lot of atheists are in the closet.And I understand why. Sure we are not being hanged,raped,abused like blacks,Jews,gays and etc were or in the case of gays still r. Notice i say WERE. There is racism antisemitsm but people recognize that as wrong today and most condemn it. It is even getting better for gays, and many are changing views on gay marriage etc. Not atheists.i came out atheists and gosh my dad slammed me down saying oh science cant help you etc.science is not my god or anything.my stepmom said she thought it pessmistc i didnt believe in a higher power. My sister said ill burn in hell.my other one said dont bring her down with me.it is just negative views.see if you believe in some deity there is some respect.its like to muslims, jews etc you are worshipping the wrong way etc but hey that ur god.a atheist? It is a big no everyone is like how can you not believe in god? How can you not believe in zeus isis etc?I love how ppl act like god and religion r so flawless when they are not and atheism is plain evil when atheism has no doctrine.it is just absence of belief in gods.

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

No matter what I do or in what I believe, I will always be condemned to my parent's version of hell, lol...so I don't even care what they think of my own personal spiritual beliefs. Nor do I care what anyone else in the world thinks...because I don't judge anyone for their own spiritual beliefs - well, unless they are doing harm to others, then I speak up.

 

I went through a crisis of faith, as I called it, for many years. Brought up Catholic, denounced it as an atheist, flipped over to Buddhism, Hinduism, even dappled in Paganism, because I felt I needed a label to define my spirituality. At one point I was calling myself a Natural Pantheist with Eclectic Leanings. Oi.

 

I've since learned that NO belief system is the socially accepted "right" one, even my own. It's just too personal. I call myself agnostic, but I have leanings towards natural spirituality. The most important thing is that it brings me a sense of joy, hope, pride and peace. I don't hide it. But, in some cases, I choose not to share information with others, not because I feel I'll be persecuted, just to save myself the ignorant insults, drama and debate.

Edited November 16, 2012 by River Rain

[The nihilst chick]

I am sorry that you are facing discrimination because of what you believe, or a lack of belief in God/gods.

 

It is your right to believe what you believe is true. It is your right to think how you want, be it your political views, be it your spiritual outlook on life, be it your goals and desires and dreams. All of it is your right!!!

 

If you think that you are in danger by your family, please get help. Are you in the USA, yes? Please take care and make sure to be safe. That's very important. If your Dad or your sister ever hit you or try to force you to be anything you don't want to be, please contact authorities and get out. Please be safe.

 

People are diverse. People think different things. That's a part of the diversity of life on earth. It doesn't make you a bad person at all that you don't believe in God. It just means you don't believe what other people do. That's ok. There are many other people who don't believe in God. Many are good people. Please find some great role models that are Atheists. Do you go to high school, yeah? Tell your teachers that you are Atheist and that your Dad is mad at you. Make sure to keep a public profile, ok?

 

Please take care. Again, I am sorry you are facing persecution from your family. It is your right to follow what you think is true, even if that's different than what your Dad and sis think!

It is hard.he makes me go to muslim club or else i cant do other after school activites.religion never was a big thing education was in his eyes.now that i said im atheist he is freaking out and brings it up more but it is still rarely spoken about

[pie2]

A lot of atheists are in the closet.And I understand why.

 

I don’t think that the majority of atheists are discriminated against in America. Not only are atheists accepted like any other member of society, there are sectors in which atheists probably earn more respect than theists (i.e. scientific and academic fields).

 

i came out atheists and gosh my dad slammed me down saying oh science cant help you etc.science is not my god or anything.my stepmom said she thought it pessmistc i didnt believe in a higher power. My sister said ill burn in hell.my other one said dont bring her down with me.

 

I do think that you are finding that you can get your dad’s attention by rebelling against some of his stronger convictions. I think you have every right to not accept his views, internally. But while he is supporting you, I think it’s your job to be respectful. It’s not your dad’s job to respect your views...his job is to love you and protect you.

 

my dad slammed me down

 

I’m not sure if you meant that your dad literally “slammed you down”. If so, (you do have a right to live in a safe place!) you should contact local authorities or outreach.

[Eve]

It is hard.he makes me go to muslim club or else i cant do other after school activites.religion never was a big thing education was in his eyes.now that i said im atheist he is freaking out and brings it up more but it is still rarely spoken about

 

Well, I think the situation isn't going to change much because you are both equally as stubborn, lol.

 

Regarding atheism, in real life, most of my colleagues at work are spiritual people in one way or another.. comes with the territory of working with people. A lady I enjoy spending time with is an atheist. She is SO hilarious! Seriously. She respects religion in terms of key people and how their faith has impacted the world but basically can't be doing with ritual. She is solid in terms of her values and is a beautiful person. Funnily enough, she does ask me questiions and even offered to walk around a Cathedral with me. It was lovely.

 

Here (in the UK) I strongly believe it is about who you are. In essence a twat is a twat, regardless of who you say you are...

 

I already know God is real so I am not bothered to be all anti atheists or whatever. I think it is important that people express who they are otherwise dodgy people will take over and rule that ****. I don't have any enemies and get on fine with people and attribute this love in my heart to Jesus and His sacrifice because really I did not find it easy previously to care deeply and walk with others through their difficulties and joys.

 

I am glad that I can fit in with both camps but be seperate and belong to God.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[The nihilst chick]

I don?t think that the majority of atheists are discriminated against in America. Not only are atheists accepted like any other member of society, there are sectors in which atheists probably earn more respect than theists (i.e. scientific and academic fields).

 

 

 

I do think that you are finding that you can get your dad?s attention by rebelling against some of his stronger convictions. I think you have every right to not accept his views, internally. But while he is supporting you, I think it?s your job to be respectful. It?s not your dad?s job to respect your views...his job is to love you and protect you.

 

 

 

I?m not sure if you meant that your dad literally ?slammed you down?. If so, (you do have a right to live in a safe place!) you should contact local authorities or outreach.

i am respectful he isnt. I didnt say f allah and the quran etc. I just said ya i am a atheist.i got tired of feeling guilty for lying that i believe in god it was getting to be too much.i am not saying HIS beliefs are dumb he is saying MY absence of belief is dumb.

[pie2]

i am not saying HIS beliefs are dumb he is saying MY absence of belief is dumb.

 

When you became an atheist, you rejected a major part of his life. Try to understand that you've rejected something he feels very strongly about, and he probably thinks that you've put yourself in harms way by doing so. Many of us who believe in God think that there are serious consequences to unbelief. He's probably worried about you.

 

Yes, he doesn't seem to be reacting with grace! But I imagine that what he is really experiencing is fear, based on his love for you.

[Feelin Frisky]

I'm just a free-thinking person. Believers are the the one's with the problems. I don't call myself an atheist because it give theism more power than it deserves.

[M30USA]

Believers are the the one's with the problems..

 

 

Where's the "tolerance"?

 

Coexist...live and let live...peace in the middle east...eh?

[Enema]

Where's the "tolerance"?

 

Coexist...live and let live...peace in the middle east...eh?

 

Exactly... where's the tolerance?

 

There are still 7 states where the state constitution says you can't be elected, and/or a witness in court if you're atheist:

 

Unelectable Atheists: U.S. States That Prohibit Godless Americans From Holding Public Office

 

Atheists have a right to scorn when there is institutionalized discrimination of this sort.

[pie2]

I think there may be a misunderstanding . I am not asking Tnc to accept her father's beliefs.

 

I apologize for any confusion . My reply was directed at Tnc, and was based on many of her posts on LS. I was attempting to get at what I feel is the root of her problem, which is more complicated than just Muslim vs. Atheist convictions.

 

From what I've read on LS, this is a teenage girl who is living with her father. She has posted numerous times about her differing opinions regarding her father's beliefs about religion, sexuality and family values. Now, for a young girl to reject her father's beliefs is not unheard of, at all. But based on the extent to which she seems to disagree with her father...I really feel that she is going through something on a personal level with her dad that is not solely about religion.

 

Once again, I don't think that the OP should believe in something she doesn't.

 

But I think her father has every right to express his concern, and to insist that she participate in family activities (i.e. church), as long as she is a minor in his custody.

 

Now, if the OP's father were here looking for advice, I'd have a few words for him, too!! Of course I think there are better ways for him to interact with and speak to his daughter. But he's not here. So all I can do is encourage the OP to take responsibility for her part of the relationship, and try to offer some insight about where his concerns are coming from.

[The nihilst chick]

When you became an atheist, you rejected a major part of his life. Try to understand that you've rejected something he feels very strongly about, and he probably thinks that you've put yourself in harms way by doing so. Many of us who believe in God think that there are serious consequences to unbelief. He's probably worried about you.

 

Yes, he doesn't seem to be reacting with grace! But I imagine that what he is really experiencing is fear, based on his love for you.

His mother rejected Christianity a part of his grandmothers life. Dont here him saying anything about that. It is my life, my choice. If he thinks ill shoot everyone since i dont worship allah too bad. He is making me more resentful to religion by preaching at me and not listening to me. I do not agree with 'muslim values' as he claims i need. Islam says to kill people who leave it, to leave a lewd,lusting woman in a house till she starves yet men can have sex with their wives and female slaves sooo... NO.

[Feelin Frisky]

Where's the "tolerance"?

 

Coexist...live and let live...peace in the middle east...eh?

 

You prove my point exactly. Your beliefs cause you to take what I said with hostility and defensiveness. I said nothing that you should take personally unless you just don't like people answering questions with views other than yours. I don't have a problem with your beliefs. I just don't have any myself and I should not define myself by what you or anyone else believes or doesn't. Thus I do not define myself as an atheist.

[pie2]

I said nothing that you should take personally unless you just don't like people answering questions with views other than yours.

 

You don't think saying, "believers are the one's [sic] with the problems" is offensive?

 

Maybe you could clarify what you mean by "problems".

[pie2]

I think FF's comment was made in the context of this thread, where many atheists in parts of the world are "in the closet" and are afraid to out themselves for fear of being made a pariah, losing their jobs, their friends and families, and so on.

 

In this case, believers who harbour this kind of herd mentality prejudice against people who are "different" are definitely the ones with the problem.

 

Well, if that is in fact the case...of course that's true! And thank you for shedding some light on the matter, quickjoe (edit: why the face?! lol)

 

But then it seems that FF was saying that people with any spiritual beliefs (even atheist beliefs) are problematic, possibly because holding to one set of values ultimately leads to division from those who don't think the same way.

 

FF, you say you are a free-thinker....but really, you must have some opinion about spirituality...?

Edited November 25, 2012 by pie2

[Eve]

I have concluded that I no longer go with the idea that atheism is only to be depicted as just a willful closing of oneself from God, or a rejection of a parents faith. Nope, it is simply an adherance to ones racial heritage. Contraversially I would say that whites are usually atheists because of their checkered past where they have raped and murdered other people of colour, to whom all the faiths originate. I do hear in some voices a genuine questioning but I would connect this to a double blind theory where they hold a revulsion or fear of religions because of their own histories; they belong to an unconsecrated race.

 

The only religions whites have created are an antithesis of the main religions which promote hedonsim (to put it nicely) or a belief in god which is not really about God but basically supports patriarchy in one form or another.

 

So, I have concluded that atheism is not a choice, rather it is a product of ones heritage as part of a westernised world view. That is all.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Feelin Frisky]

You don't think saying, "believers are the one's [sic] with the problems" is offensive?

 

Maybe you could clarify what you mean by "problems".

 

See how country music female singing star Chely Wright is being treated by the people who used to buy her stuff before she "came out" as gay (at 39). Her preacher told her before she came out that "nobody is as mean as people mean for Jesus". She gets death threats and lost her career entirely by the "faithful". It's actually silly if you're a liberated person from all that--they create this pseudo-reality of "beliefs" and act hateful when someone differs from their way. You shouldn't have to be told this by me. There is plenty of evidence throughout the ages of beliefs being held higher than people even when truth is out that the belief is faulty. It's just mob hate. I myself make no pretenses to be part of a belief system so no one was misled by me to feel betrayed by. But people who put themselves out as icons of belief will suffer when they realize that their own zeal does not match their private and personal truth.

[pie2]

I myself make no pretenses to be part of a belief system so no one was misled by me to feel betrayed by.

 

Ok...

 

(I find it hard to believe! )

 

It's actually silly if you're a liberated person from all that--they create this pseudo-reality of "beliefs" and act hateful when someone differs from their way.

 

Some "believers"....

 

Believers are the the one's with the problems.

 

But, getting back to the original statement, I think we all have problems !

[Nightsky]

A lot of atheists are in the closet.And I understand why. Sure we are not being hanged,raped,abused like blacks,Jews,gays and etc were or in the case of gays still r. Notice i say WERE. There is racism antisemitsm but people recognize that as wrong today and most condemn it. It is even getting better for gays, and many are changing views on gay marriage etc. Not atheists.i came out atheists and gosh my dad slammed me down saying oh science cant help you etc.science is not my god or anything.my stepmom said she thought it pessmistc i didnt believe in a higher power. My sister said ill burn in hell.my other one said dont bring her down with me.it is just negative views.see if you believe in some deity there is some respect.its like to muslims, jews etc you are worshipping the wrong way etc but hey that ur god.a atheist? It is a big no everyone is like how can you not believe in god? How can you not believe in zeus isis etc?I love how ppl act like god and religion r so flawless when they are not and atheism is plain evil when atheism has no doctrine.it is just absence of belief in gods.

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

Excuse me but if you're done with you PC rant about atheism can you explain to me if you're a nihilist. I mean its in your user name but all seem to spout is PC crap and fear of being told you're going to hell cause it hurts you feelings.

 

Did you ever think there is no such thing as racism? It's just a word to shut people up. Did you also ever think of atheism as type of religion. More cult like actually. It really goes after Christianity too. Why not put down other religions more.

 

I'm just a free-thinking person. Believers are the the one's with the problems. I don't call myself an atheist because it give theism more power than it deserves.

 

You're a statheist you worship government. That's the way I see you. Like when you argue with a Theist they see god in the gaps. They ask you a question till there is no answer and than say "god." Stathiest like you who are usually part of athiest cult see government in the gaps. Think we can tax/spend/and regulate our self out of anything and love central planning/control.

[BetheButterfly]

It is hard.he makes me go to muslim club or else i cant do other after school activites.religion never was a big thing education was in his eyes.now that i said im atheist he is freaking out and brings it up more but it is still rarely spoken about

 

I think he is scared of losing you to the unknown (in his eyes).

 

One way you can see this, being forced to go to a Muslim club, is with an objective viewpoint. Maybe you can see it as you being an observer into another worldview that is different than your own? It would be good to respectfully say that you are an observer; you are learning. However, if your Dad or any other person tries to force you to say the Shadadat or pray or do things you do not believe, you really need to tell the people at your school or go to a Non-Muslim authority figure and ask for help/protection.

 

Make sure your family knows that you respect their beliefs and expect them to respect yours. If they threaten you with violence, you need to go to safety.

[mercy]

The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them. Thomas Merton

[BetheButterfly]

There's a small clip of a video interview of a teenage girl who is being bullied and persecuted by Christians in her school because she is an atheist. Even the teachers are in on the act. They call her things like "devil-worshiper," and when she goes to use the bathroom, the teachers make comments about how they hate that girl, and that it's a Christian country so she should just get out. That's how tolerant some Christians are.

 

Jesus taught his followers to love their neighbors (Matthew 22:39), each other (John 15:12), and even their enemies (Matthew 5:44; Luke 6:27).

 

These "Christians" are not obeying Jesus. Now, there are Christians who disobey. Sadly, I have no always loved everyone. I'm still a work in progress, but persecuting people is not what Jesus calls his followers to do. I question if these people are truly Christians if they truly love Jesus, because they obviously are not obeying him.

 

If a person does not want to obey Jesus, then I personally question why they call themselves a Christian. ?

 

Christians long time ago, and still today, have been/are persecuted in many places in the world. However, we are not supposed to persecute others. We are supposed to love others. If we do not love, we are disobeying. if we don't want to obey Jesus, how can we say we follow him?

[pie2]

Tolerance=permitting a person to hold a certain belief. That's all tolerance and intolerance boils down to...I could sit and call you an idiot all day long and still not be being intolerant of you, so long as I'm allowing you do as you wish, and believe as you wish, and I'm not infringing on your right to do so.

 

That is one mighty strange definition of tolerance .

 

But, according to what I think your definition of tolerance is...

 

...a teenage girl who is being...persecuted by Christians in her school... Even the teachers are in on the act. They call her things like "devil-worshiper," and when she goes to use the bathroom, the teachers make comments about how they hate that girl, and that it's a Christian country so she should just get out. That's how tolerant some Christians are.

 

...those teachers were being tolerant.

 

 

 

Personally, I'll stick with Merriam-Webster:

 

tolerance: capacity to endure pain - sympathy for beliefs differing from one's own

[BetheButterfly]

The issue with the argument that some Christians are not "true Christians," is that they often are.

 

If you considered a person to truly love you, do you think they would take into consideration what you say?

 

If you consider a person a true friend of yours, would they deliberately misrepresent you to others?

 

Similarly, a true Christian would not misrepresent Jesus and ignore what he said to do.

 

They might not represent the supposed ideal Christian-loving, forgiving, charitable etc, but they do worship the same God, and believe in the same book.

 

Jesus condemns those who believe yet don't do the will of the Father (God). (Matthew 7:21-23). Obviously, those who don't do the will of the Father (and obey Jesus), are not his true followers.

 

Some people can pretend to truly love or follow someone, but actions speak louder than words.

 

Like much of the Christian population (and I imagine people from other faiths too), they cherry pick the parts that they agree with, and follow them. Chances are, they might look at the more moderate and liberal believers in much the same light as they are looked on.

 

Understood. However, that is why focusing on Christ and what he says is so important. Sad to say, many people who dub themselves Christians don't seem to pay attention to what Christ said.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong-you, from what I know of you, are a wonderful, beautiful example of what a Christian person should be (in my view ).

 

 

Thanks

 

It's just that other Christians, let's say Westboro Baptist, got their views from exactly the same book, and can back them up using the Bible, too.

 

The "Christians" at Westboro Baptist deliberately ignore Jesus' love for sinners. Jesus never did what they do. Rather, Jesus showed love for sinners and welcomed them. He didn't hate them at all.

 

They could even say that Jesus's teachings directly contradicted what was in the OT (stoning homosexuals-choosing that as a point of ref for the WB), and that those who do not condemn/judge homosexuals are wrong, and enabling sinners, which they do.

 

True. They could say that Jesus' teachings directly contradicted, because interestingly, Jesus' teachings didn't follow the same strict harshness of the Law of Moses, but rather followed Love. That's a really good point, but then that means that they are more into strict and ancient Judaism instead of Christianity, since they don't follow Jesus Christ but rather seem to want to follow the very strict and harsh Law of Moses for the Israelites of long time ago.

It's all about how people are taught the teachings of any religion, and what they take out of it. I don't believe that one type of Christian is more Christian than the other type considering that the only real requirement is faith in the same god.

 

Christianity is not just about believing in the "same god." Christianity is about following Jesus Christ. If a person isn't at least trying to follow what Jesus Christ said to do, then he or she is not a true Christian. Everyone makes mistakes, but Jesus' words are clear as to how to treat others:

 

Luke 6 (I boldened some.)27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."

Luke 6 NIV - Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath - One - Bible Gateway