A question of time and space

[MellowPlayer]

My wife and I have been married for 25 years and known one another for 30 yrs. We met when she was 17 and I 18 and had/have never dated, known, been romantically involved, slept with anybody other than each other.

 

Over the years, I guess we got too comfortable and took each other increasingly for granted. Gradually over 20 or so years our sex life, in fact our entire marriage, had become predictable, monotonous, just-going-thru- the- motions and utterly, completely boring. I assumed that this was something that happened to most marriages and that one ignored/put up with this as the other benefits of being married more than made up for this.

 

By about three years ago we had some "obligatory, my-partner-needs to be-satisfied" kind of sex once every few months. I began to notice that I was beginning to have a hard time getting a hard-on and keeping it. Before I figured this out, I was laid off at work. Two months later I was diagnosed with cancer of the kidney that had spread to the liver and immediate surgery was recommended.

 

My wife jumped into this whole thing and educated herself about every aspect of cancer. She found and set up my doctor, surgery and took really, rally good care of me during my recovery.

 

After surgery, I had to take a lot of meds. everyday. One of the side effects, I was informed, was erectile dysfunction. So our sex life continued as before.

I tried My wife and I have been married for 25 years and known one another for 30 yrs. We met when she was 17 and I 18 and had/have never dated, known, been romantically involved, slept with anybody other than each other.

 

Over the years, I guess we got too comfortable and took each other increasingly for granted. Gradually over 20 or so years our sex life, in fact our entire marriage, had become predictable, monotonous, just-going-thru- the- motions and utterly, completely boring. I assumed that this was something that happend to most marriages and that one ignored/put up with this as the other benefits of being married more than made up for this.

 

By about three years ago we had some "obligatory, my-partner-needs to be-satisfied" kind of sex once every few months. I began to notice that I was beginning to have a hard time getting a hard-on and keeping it. Before I figured this out, I was laid off at work. Two months later I was diagnosed with cancer of the kidney that had spread to the liver and immediate surgery was recommended.

 

My wife jumped into this whole thing and educated herself about every aspect of cancer. She found and set up my doctor, surgery and took really, rally good care of me during my recovery.

 

I tried My wife and I have been married for 25 years and known one another for 30 yrs. We met when she was 17 and I 18 and had/have never dated, known, been romantically involved, slept with anybody other than each other.

 

Over the years, I guess we got too comfortable and took each other increasingly for granted. Gradually over 20 or so years our sex life, in fact our entire marriage, had become predictable, monotonous, just-going-thru- the- motions and utterly, completely boring. I assumed that this was something that happend to most marriages and that one ignored/put up with this as the other benefits of being married more than made up for this.

 

By about three years ago we had some "obligatory, my-partner-needs to be-satisfied" kind of sex once every few months. I began to notice that I was beginning to have a hard time getting a hard-on and keeping it. Before I figured this out, I was laid off at work. Two months later I was diagnosed with cancer of the kidney that had spread to the liver and immediate surgery was recommended.

 

My wife jumped into this whole thing and educated herself about every aspect of cancer. She found and set up my doctor, surgery and took really, really good care of me during my recovery.

 

One of the side effects of my meds. is erectile dysfunction. I thought OK that still doesn't make any difference as my performance is already an issue.

 

Over the last couple of years she asked me a few times how she was supposed to satisfy herself and I just brushed it aside as I was not denying her purposely and in any case there was nothing we could do about it and I implied that she just has to deal with it. This was I guess for a whole bunch of reasons including the morals, values and standards we both held.

 

Finally all this came to a head because of some other things happening. Finally she said that all her life she had been subverting her life and her personality and all she uniquely was for somebody else .... me, the kids, people whose opinion mattered to her/us...

 

Now she could not do this any more and wanted to let her personality emerge and do whatever she had to for herself and her fulfillment.

 

She says that she realizes that in every relationship each partner cannot fulfill the needs of the other 100%. I agreed. So she asked if ours could be an open marriage, where she sought satisfaction elsewhere for just this issue but all else in our marriage remained the same, including her continuing to love me and her promise to never leave me. She guarantees there is no emotion involved in her action. It's "like going out to dinner because you are hungry and want something new, different."

 

Since she got her fix on Friday, since then she has been all over the place emotionally. I have too although I have tried my best not to show it. She comes to me saying she now feels that she has to spend more time with me to make up. I told her that was not necessary. She then makes sexual overtures, then, next tells me not to touch her. I am not sure how I am supposed to respond.

 

She says she needs time and space? Can anybody pls. translate??

Edited November 18, 2012 by MellowPlayer

[pcplod]

You might want to consider editing your post to remove the superfluous duplication, it does make it more difficult to read and is off-putting.

 

The warped dynamics of your 'cancerous' relationship are way too complicated and way too long-term to be explained by a simple translation. The simple fact is that not only do you not understand but your wife does not understand either. And it is probably going to take her quite some time to come to any even tentative sort of conclusion.

 

The only way you can understand any of this is to learn to speak the language yourself, to think this through for yourself. No-one else can do it. Honestly.

 

You have made a modest start by merely asking yourself these questions by asking those questions of yourself. Self-awareness, honest self-awareness is essential. Communication, honest communication with your partner is also an essential component to this. Do you feel you are at that point?

 

You could engage with a therapist or counsellor and have the discussion that you are attempting to raise here with them. It would require that level of input and commitment like that in order to have any hope to make any headway at all.

 

However, therapists and counsellors don't have any magic tricks up their sleeves. They are, in the end, mere facilitators. You can act as your own facilitator; there is a lot of useful material out there that you can use as self-help therapy, that will tease out and help you examine your own thoughts and behaviour traits. Look at Amazon and see who is recommending what and why.

 

Over the last couple of years she asked me a few times how she was supposed to satisfy herself and I just brushed it aside as I was not denying her purposely and in any case there was nothing we could do about it and I implied that she just has to deal with it. This was I guess for a whole bunch of reasons including the morals, values and standards we both held.

 

Finally all this came to a head because of some other things happening. Finally she said that all her life she had been subverting her life and her personality and all she uniquely was for somebody else .... me, the kids, people whose opinion mattered to her/us...

 

This is your starter for 10 points, in your own words. You weren't listening. You weren't watching. You were indifferent to her needs. Maybe she was indifferent to yours but would making any such observation help? What can you bring to the table? What do you want to bring to the table? Being the victim of cancer does not axiomatically make you a hostage to fortune in any other respect. It is largely your choice to be that hostage.

Edited November 18, 2012 by pcplod

[MellowPlayer]

I do not consider myself a victim. I am rather trying to figure out as to how I find my own fulfillment without depriving anybody else of theirs.

[pcplod]

The warped dynamics of your 'cancerous' relationship are way too complicated and way too long-term to be explained by a simple translation. The simple fact is that not only do you not understand but your wife does not understand either. And it is probably going to take her quite some time to come to any even tentative sort of conclusion.

 

The only way you can understand any of this is to learn to speak the language yourself, to think this through for yourself. No-one else can do it. Honestly.

 

You have made a modest start by merely asking yourself these questions by asking those questions of yourself. Self-awareness, honest self-awareness is essential. Communication, honest communication with your partner is also an essential component to this. Do you feel you are at that point?

 

You could engage with a therapist or counsellor and have the discussion that you are attempting to raise here with them. It would require that level of input and commitment like that in order to have any hope to make any headway at all.

 

However, therapists and counsellors don't have any magic tricks up their sleeves. They are, in the end, mere facilitators. You can act as your own facilitator; there is a lot of useful material out there that you can use as self-help therapy, that will tease out and help you examine your own thoughts and behaviour traits. Look at Amazon and see who is recommending what and why.

 

Over the last couple of years she asked me a few times how she was supposed to satisfy herself and I just brushed it aside as I was not denying her purposely and in any case there was nothing we could do about it and I implied that she just has to deal with it. This was I guess for a whole bunch of reasons including the morals, values and standards we both held.

 

Finally all this came to a head because of some other things happening. Finally she said that all her life she had been subverting her life and her personality and all she uniquely was for somebody else .... me, the kids, people whose opinion mattered to her/us...

This is your starter for 10 points, in your own words. You weren't listening. You weren't watching. You were indifferent to her needs. Maybe she was indifferent to yours but would making any such observation help? What can you bring to the table? What do you want to bring to the table? Being the victim of cancer does not axiomatically make you a hostage to fortune in any other respect. It is largely your choice to be that hostage.

 

It's not about her, it's about you. Figure out the "you" and the rest might fall into place with a little bit of forgiveness, grace and luck. On the other hand, it might already be too late.

 

Being the survivor of cancer does not give you a get out of gaol card on life's other little responsibilities. It just should make you ever more appreciative of them.

 

By the way, do you really not understand your wife's feelings in this respect? It seems that way. Your wife is almost totally alienated from you. Do you not feel sorrow, guilt, even fear over that?

Edited November 18, 2012 by pcplod

[pcplod]

It's unfortunate that your post has now appeared twice but there is nothing you can do to prevent that. I have read your response to my comments in the other version and all I can seriously, uncritically, advise you to do is to seek that therapy/counselling.

 

Your response smacks of "What about me?!" which while understandable in some ways shouts out about entitlement. I am pretty certain as I can be that it simply does not work that way and if you can't see or understand what I am trying to drive at you have issues over a lack of empathy which will do YOU no good whatsoever. You need that therapy/counselling.

[coffeebean201]

Here are my thoughts, and hope they help....

 

Given your mellow personality.......... and how much she loves you (she took really good care of you when you were sick), I think that letting this run its course....and see if she tires of all the dynamic sexual excitement in her life.

 

And work on getting yourself in good hot shape in the meantime (rather than being in illness-recovery-mode).

 

Sounds like you both love eachother and just need to find your groove with each other sexually......and that is going to take time for her to sort through the excitement of dating other people....which is a first for her (because you were each other's firsts for everything).

 

You obviously love her, because you don't seem interested in sleeping with other women.

 

I respect her honesty in asking you for an open marriage.

[Els]

I'm terribly sorry that you had to go through cancer, though I'm happy that you seem to be recovering.

 

I can't even begin to touch on the emotional aspects of your marriage, as I most certainly have not been in an R for as long as you have. Something that does stand out to me, though, is where you said, "Over the last couple of years she asked me a few times how she was supposed to satisfy herself and I just brushed it aside as I was not denying her purposely and in any case there was nothing we could do about it and I implied that she just has to deal with it."

 

I'm not trying to say that it's your fault, as you really are not obligated to pleasure her if you feel ill, but assuming you want to and feel up to it, there are always things that can be done about it. Regarding her satisfaction, an erect penis, or indeed any penis, is not always necessary to bring a woman to orgasm. You have a tongue, hands, lips. Regarding your own satisfaction, well, how are you feeling? If you are alright, then you can just let it be, but if you too feel unfulfilled, perhaps you could talk to your doctor about ways of dealing with your ED.

[MellowPlayer]

I'm terribly sorry that you had to go through cancer, though I'm happy that you seem to be recovering.

 

I can't even begin to touch on the emotional aspects of your marriage, as I most certainly have not been in an R for as long as you have. Something that does stand out to me, though, is where you said, "Over the last couple of years she asked me a few times how she was supposed to satisfy herself and I just brushed it aside as I was not denying her purposely and in any case there was nothing we could do about it and I implied that she just has to deal with it."

 

I'm not trying to say that it's your fault, as you really are not obligated to pleasure her if you feel ill, but assuming you want to and feel up to it, there are always things that can be done about it. Regarding her satisfaction, an erect penis, or indeed any penis, is not always necessary to bring a woman to orgasm. You have a tongue, hands, lips. Regarding your own satisfaction, well, how are you feeling? If you are alright, then you can just let it be, but if you too feel unfulfilled, perhaps you could talk to your doctor about ways of dealing with your ED.

 

The times that we have had sex when both of us were really into I used tongue, hands and lips in many, creative ways which she really enjoyed. However, she says that neither my skills, or the use toys leave her feeling satisfied. Only, "a hard cock inside will make me feel well ****ed" and that would only do.

[Els]

Well, I don't think it's justified for her to use that to get an open relationship, then. You're clearly doing everything you can under the circumstances and I'm not sure why she suddenly seems to have become so selfish, when she was such a great woman before. Unless you yourself are okay with the open relationship?

[MellowPlayer]

Well, I don't think it's justified for her to use that to get an open relationship, then. You're clearly doing everything you can under the circumstances and I'm not sure why she suddenly seems to have become so selfish, when she was such a great woman before. Unless you yourself are okay with the open relationship?

 

The way I see it she is already on this road. If I tell her that I am not happy with an open marriage, she not act further but will increasingly resent and feel bitter towards me. I she still decides to go ahead she will still continue to resent and feel bitter as I am not allowing her her fulfillment without guilt.

[Els]

If and only if you are genuinely ok with it, sit down with her and negotiate parameters. You are concerned about her getting emotionally attached, so perhaps she should only get professional male escorts, so that the lines between emotion/personal attachment and sex will be more clearly drawn.

 

I personally feel that she should try and make do with everything else the two have at your disposal sexually (and it is a LOT), but eh.

[MellowPlayer]

If and only if you are genuinely ok with it, sit down with her and negotiate parameters. You are concerned about her getting emotionally attached, so perhaps she should only get professional male escorts, so that the lines between emotion/personal attachment and sex will be more clearly drawn.

 

I personally feel that she should try and make do with everything else the two have at your disposal sexually (and it is a LOT), but eh.

 

I am genuinely OK with this. I was concerned about the emotional attachment but this new wife I see is utterly practical, utterly realistic and unemotional about this and when she says that this is like scratching an itch, I believe her.