Why are so many posts here trying to predict the behaviour of the AP?

[Henni]

i think the statements about what is going on in the married person's marriage are probably correct...about 90% of the time...is it really being helpful to sugar coat that for someone who comes looking for help?

 

as for what you say about posts focusing too much on the behavior of the married person...to a certain extent, I agree. The other man/woman can't control what the married person will do, but they can control their own behavior...the problem becomes some many on here use statements like " i didn't mean for this to happen but it did" or " I can't help myself" or " I can't stop myself" or " the heart wants what t wants" ( or any of the many other variations on this theme...

 

I do agree that it may be more helpful for an other man/woman to control the things they can control ( their own behavior) , but some who are hurting because they allow the married person to hurt them don't see that...they stay, believe the words even when the action shows something different...sometimes someone needs someone else to point of the obvious truth...they are too close to the situation to really see it for what it is

 

There's sense in your post. But, there's a lot of subjectivity in what is an obvious truth, and many people seem to ONLY post statements of fact about all men who have affairs, and nothing else. I guess many BS who stay married also believe the words rather than the actions, since they stay in a marriage where they are betrayed.

[Henni]

I see LS as the political arena. People all over the spectrum, the loudest voices are sometimes on the extreme. A dialogue is simply not possible between any two opinions at any time.

 

The people who see marriage as a goal in itself, and the most important thing is to cross the finish line (death) follow their own script, with their own preferred marriage therapy. They like it that way, it works for them, I just wish they didn't push it on everyone's throats, especially to evil OW or fOW here. It's very predicatable though (pun intended) that they are so inflexible and pushy. Their stories about recovering from infidelity are carbon copies. Common thread the WS was a lost good person who made one regretable mistake, the AP is evil and deplorable, the BS best spouse ever for being so forgiving and saving the family. The M was not the problem etc. etc. etc.

 

Agreed. And when finally someone calls them and they blessedly don't know how to respond, they resort to one-liner safe and meaningless platitudes worthy of Sarah Palin's spin doctor. I hope you find peace with your sins. I am here to help. I've forgiven my spouse, I just haven't forgiven >every single woman out there who is 'screwing' someone's spouse so good that the poor spouse can't find the strength to walk away from their evil reign of good sex<. How's that for political? or rather, 'How do you like dem apples, angel?'

 

Ingenuine. Pffff.

[frozensprouts]

There's sense in your post. But, there's a lot of subjectivity in what is an obvious truth, and many people seem to ONLY post statements of fact about all men who have affairs, and nothing else. I guess many BS who stay married also believe the words rather than the actions, since they stay in a marriage where they are betrayed.

 

ah, I can understand your point, and perhaps it is true some of the time, but not usually....

 

look at it this way...

a married man ( or woman) who cheats is, during the time they are cheating, is certainly engaging in some hurtful behavior. Once their affair is over and the dust has settled, should their spouse decide to reconcile, it's more often than not the end end result of a long series of actions on the part of the wayward spouse that can allow that too happen....the words don't matter, the substances does...you can call a skunk cabbage a rose but it still doesn't make it sweet, but you can replace the skunk cabbage with some lilac or lilly of the valley flowers and, while different from a rose, they smell just as wonderful

(hmmm...i'm not sure if that last part made any sense...sorry...I think I've stayed up too late on here and I'm tired:laugh:)

[frozensprouts]

I see LS as the political arena. People all over the spectrum, the loudest voices are sometimes on the extreme. A dialogue is simply not possible between any two opinions at any time.

 

The people who see marriage as a goal in itself, and the most important thing is to cross the finish line (death) follow their own script, with their own preferred marriage therapy. They like it that way, it works for them, I just wish they didn't push it on everyone's throats, especially to evil OW or fOW here. It's very predicatable though (pun intended) that they are so inflexible and pushy. Their stories about recovering from infidelity are carbon copies. Common thread the WS was a lost good person who made one regretable mistake, the AP is evil and deplorable, the BS best spouse ever for being so forgiving and saving the family. The M was not the problem etc. etc. etc.

 

most other men/ women aren't "evil', but , like in any group of people, you'll find a few that are pretty bad....the same is true for betrayed spouses too ( a few are pretty awful)

 

and often, the marriage isn't the problem...it's a whole set of things...but whatever the external influences, cheating comes down to the person who cheats having something in them that allows them to see cheating as an acceptable choice...if it wasn't acceptable, they wouldn't do it ( and if the argument is made " they don't really think it's acceptable, but they do it because of x, y or z" then form my point of view, that's pretty darn lame)

[MissBee]

That all seems reasonable to me, MissBee, and I've seen those posts where people ask 'will he leave?' etc., and thought, is it really helping to to ask perfect strangers for some kind of crystal ball prediction? I'm not saying there's something wrong with it period, I just can't relate to it, and I found it interesting enough to ask people about. I think focussing on the fact that chances are slim with the success of any relationship can make sense too - if the person is prone to lots of false hope. There's a difference between that, as I've seen in your posts, and other posts that state 'it's going to be like this - he's never going to leave EVER! he's lying to you / still sleeping with his wife/ hasn't told his wife', that's all statements of fact, as though these people were the authority on not only the poster's life, but the WS's life too. Just - what do they hope to gain by that? Perhaps it's just people venting, I dunno.

 

Yea I don't post in that style because it can be abrasive and come off a bit authoritative/arrogant as you've said. It's one thing to post what you believe is likely versus stating it as a known fact, indeed. I definitely have seen posters who do get into threads and seem to be very forceful about this is what WILL/IS happening. I see no sense in doing that, for me personally, as rightly, you don't know for certain, so might as well be a little less forceful about it, especially since it will probably turn people off from listening to anything you have to say at all. If someone is asking a question requiring prediction, then I'll say what seems most likely, and if it's not a prediction type of thing, then I answer what they're asking and give my 2 cents...which may or may not include a future forecast. But certainly I don't attempt to tell anyone "Your MM is sleeping with his wife and lying". I usually point to being suspicious at all times and that it could be a possibility, and of course depending on the facts of the particular story, some possibilities seem more probable than others.

 

I posted earlier that some people do seem to post without actually reading the situation. Some folks against As seem to get into every thread armed with the predictions of what will happen and yell it out no matter the situation presented and there is no real engagement with the person asking the question, and some posters more sympathetic to As also do the same, they don't engage with the actual OP and their issue but take it as an opportunity to say "Don't listen to naysayers" or some other thing that really also is irrelevant to the person's concerns .

 

I do try to be relevant to the specific concerns. It's no secret that I'm not in favor of As, but I have no "agenda" to bash people over the head with predictions, but simply advise based on what I see in their story. But I would definitely agree that it probably is a matter of HOW you say what you're saying versus actually having a prediction. I do have my own predictions about some situations but I'm not going to post as though it has already happened or I have the proof xyz isn't happening...as I know it would come off in a way that someone is less likely to listen to.

[Summer Breeze]

I get that people often need to hear some home truths, and I do this myself, but I'm just wondering why so much of the conversation here is about trying to predict what an AP will do or has done? For me, the issue was me, what I will do, what I should do, what my options are....nobody knows the future and trying to predict it seems counter productive and likely to lead to endless analysis about something nobody really knows. Sometimes it seems like a gambling addiction...I bet he/she never did/will/will not....

 

Just putting that out there...and wondering from all those long term posters who've been through it all...is trying to predict the future for others really the best way to figure out what to do and how to do it?

 

 

I've read down through this whole thread now and I agree totally that a lot of people, on all sides, are more interested in their own agendas and beliefs than actually responding to the person posting. I know we all have thoughts and experiences that tend to bring us to conclusions but a lot of posters do actually make their word seem like gospel.

 

Four things came to mind after reading the posts on this thread.

 

1 You mentioned that it seems many posters are more interested in making it clear what the MP is going to do. They are full of judgements and assumptions than real advice. Even some people who appear so learned and full of great advice basically answer every single situation in basically the same way. It's funny this is coming up now. The other night I was reading the forum on my phone and none of the names of posters showed up. I could actually identify a lot of the posters just by what they were saying and how they were saying it. The messages don't change too tremendously much. It actually made me stop and think maybe I'm the same.

 

2 Someone mentioned scripts. This is something that annoys me to death. The MM script, the A script. Well everything has a script. Newlyweds, new parents, Ms, friendships, As, reconciling spouses. Eveything has a 'normal' course to follow but at the end of the day the people element makes it so that every script is adlibbed in a really big way. My M was as much on a script as the A with dMM. There were wild differences between my experiences in each as well. As was said in the thread a few times we expect outcomes because of what we see but there's no way you can call life scripted. I was M like a trillion other people but my experiences were very different to any other M.

 

3 Miss Bee and Henni both talked about how things are said and that's so important. So many people have such good things to say and so many valid points, but they are so sarcastic or dripping in so much anger and hurt that they don't get their great points across.

 

4 The most important thing to me is the lack of reminding posters of their power. If posters respond to a thread talking about things that can't be controlled they are missing a chance to remind the OP about the power they actually do have in their own lives. You can only control yourself and while we all look for validation and support, what we think someone else might do doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what you control and how you control it.

[Stephanie]

**Moderators note **

 

32 off topic posts in only 2 pages; lets keep the posts on topic please or take the infraction without complaining.

 

Thanks

[canuckprincess]

I get that people often need to hear some home truths, and I do this myself, but I'm just wondering why so much of the conversation here is about trying to predict what an AP will do or has done? For me, the issue was me, what I will do, what I should do, what my options are....nobody knows the future and trying to predict it seems counter productive and likely to lead to endless analysis about something nobody really knows. Sometimes it seems like a gambling addiction...I bet he/she never did/will/will not....

 

Just putting that out there...and wondering from all those long term posters who've been through it all...is trying to predict the future for others really the best way to figure out what to do and how to do it?

 

 

I can predict the future to some degree, if I allow him to continue having his cake and eating it to will could go on for years and years. In my situation my mm isn't gonna leave his marriage until he is seriously faced with loseing me. I will hold on as long as I can till hes ready to choose, nd when I can't wait any longer then I will end it. If chooses then to leave he'll know where to find me.

[woinlove]

Being an OW/OM is not ideal for most people. But it ain't all bad.

 

I think this is the reason many try to offer perspectives on the MM/MW and their possible intentions, the possible outcomes, and particularly, to help APs not ignore the negatives -- because, except for a small number of individuals who want to be in an affair with a married person, at best affairs typically "ain't all bad".

 

One should have a really wonderful, inspiring relationship with the person you love and who loves you. But some stay stuck in affairs, focussing on the positives, ignoring the negatives, sometimes not realizing that they could have more happiness in a relationship that is out in the open, with no deception, no one being treating poorly or with a lack of respect, neither themselves nor others. For those who want affairs and are fine with the deception, that's another matter. But most aren't and, consequently, I think much of the advice is offered with the idea that one might want more than a secret affair.

[cocorico]

I think this is the reason many try to offer perspectives on the MM/MW and their possible intentions, the possible outcomes, and particularly, to help APs not ignore the negatives -- because, except for a small number of individuals who want to be in an affair with a married person, at best affairs typically "ain't all bad".

 

One should have a really wonderful, inspiring relationship with the person you love and who loves you. But some stay stuck in affairs, focussing on the positives, ignoring the negatives, sometimes not realizing that they could have more happiness in a relationship that is out in the open, with no deception, no one being treating poorly or with a lack of respect, neither themselves nor others. For those who want affairs and are fine with the deception, that's another matter. But most aren't and, consequently, I think much of the advice is offered with the idea that one might want more than a secret affair.

 

Some people are prepared to settle for an out in the open R with an OK-ish guy who meets most of their criteria while not setting their hearts on fire, and that's OK for those people.

 

Others want an R with a partner who blows their fuses in every possible way; they demand high passion and full-on loving, they want to drink life to the lees and not settle for some OK-ish bloke who is nice enough but not the Love of their Life. And if they can't have him full-time, they'd rather have him part-time than not at all, having found him. And for those people, some of heaven is better than no heaven at all, and certainly better than all of Mondeo man who lights no fires but comes without the inconvenience of a W.

 

At least for a while.

 

Sometimes that gets old, and Mondeo man starts to look a little more appealing than another night in with Sky Arts. Or sometimes Life (or Wife) gets in the way and even the part-time option gets whisked away cruelly. Or sometimes he dumps the W and they ride off into the sunset together. Whichever way, for many the A is not a permanent R solution.

 

Fact remains, there are many possible outcomes to an A, not every OW wants the same outcome and not every OW gets the same outcome. Pretending to know how things will work out in any particular case when you have at best only a small percentage of the information, based on only one participant's account, is really just wishful thinking.

[MissBee]

I can predict the future to some degree, if I allow him to continue having his cake and eating it to will could go on for years and years. In my situation my mm isn't gonna leave his marriage until he is seriously faced with loseing me. I will hold on as long as I can till hes ready to choose, nd when I can't wait any longer then I will end it. If chooses then to leave he'll know where to find me.

 

I think it's true that we can predict our own futures to a degree...and certainly the skill to accurately forecast, while leaving room for surprises, is a useful one. But lots of things in life are predictable or we can intuit (some more than others). How many times have you been in a situation where you just KNEW something was off or you knew what would happen, but you went against your better judgment, then exactly as you predicted/felt occurred? Hindsight is 20/20 because people usually ignore the foresight. But often in retracing one can point back to all the red flags and feelings they ignored before...which makes them realize it wasn't that mysterious, you KNEW this, but proceeded against the evidence at hand.

[MissBee]

Fact remains, there are many possible outcomes to an A, not every OW wants the same outcome and not every OW gets the same outcome. Pretending to know how things will work out in any particular case when you have at best only a small percentage of the information, based on only one participant's account, is really just wishful thinking.

 

I think that was part of woinlove's point.

 

But the proof is in the pudding they say. While I don't agree that people should shout definitively what will happen or is happening, if they don't know for certain, it seems that most LS "predictions" come to pass. And it is not as "mysterious" and hard to predict how most of the stories here will end up. One need not have a crystal ball to make certain intelligent inferences and forecasts...and since most things in life aren't 100% certain, being able to guess while taking into account the standard deviation is invaluable.

 

Certainly, as I've said earlier in the thread, since I've been here... I can't think of a single situation (where the people came back) that turned out vastly different from what I intuited based on what was shared here. I don't go around telling people this is what will for certain happen, but I'm also not shy about saying this seems quite likely, if I'm wrong, so be it...but thus far I've never been terribly put to shame, as most of these situations turned out as I suspected.

[Tenacity]

I had a hard time understanding what this thread meant when it was first posted (and was afraid I would post off topic), but now I understand better (I think).

 

Some people here make statements as if they are fact ("Your MM will never leave his W for you"... "Your MM doesn't love you; he is only in it for sex" ... "MM don't love their APs") and on and on. It is starting to drive me crazy...

 

First of all, these people can't possibly KNOW these "facts" in the case of anyone, so to post to someone on an internet forum with the only background being a few paragraphs of a thread starter is just wrong in my opinion. I did learn after reading the rules (stickied to the top) that this is actually against the rules:

 

Here is copy-and-paste from the LS rules:

 

Another area which often comes up is generalizing:

 

'Cheaters are scum'

 

Not acceptable. A strong, yet acceptable statement, would be:

 

'I think cheating is wrong and would never knowingly date or have a relationship with a present or former cheater'

 

I see these posts here ALL THE TIME. The way a post is phrased makes ALL the difference and in my opinion, several people here repeatedly violate this rule...

 

The other point made - one which I have had a problem with too - is the civility and respect rule. Why can't we just be nice to each other?

 

Again, copy-and-paste from the rules:

 

Civility & respect: Interact in a manner conducive to free-flowing, collaborative participation from all visitors, fostering an environment free of harassment, character attacks, and other forms of individual and group berating.

 

Essentially, this means discussing the topic in a civil manner without using negative or inflammatory adjectives to describe particular members in the thread, including the thread starter.

 

If you believe their behavior is wrong or hurtful, state that. 'I think what you're doing here is wrong and here are my reasons: xxx and xxx". If you disagree with their perspective, state that. 'I disagree and this is my perspective: xxx and xxx'.

 

Here's a typical 'helping' statement which could be phrased in a manner which adheres to community guidelines:

 

'Why don't you divorce your spouse so they can find someone who deserves their love?'

 

This implies the recipient of the statement is undeserving of love and is off-topic and inflammatory and is considered a character attack.

 

However, the same advice can be given which adheres to community guidelines. Example:

 

'Why don't you and your spouse address this issue in your marriage and, if you can't resolve it, move on to other, more mutually healthy, relationships. Prolonging the current relationship with an affair just seems to be unhealthy for everyone.'

This method of interaction focuses on the relationships, which are really the topic, and addresses them in a civil manner.

 

I have lost count of how many times I have seen almost this exact same post made by people... "Why don't you set your spouse free so they can get someone who deserves them..."

 

I just think this is cruel, mean, and completely not compassionate. No one can possibly know all the nuances to anyone's story.

 

One thing I learned - and that I have done wrong - is reply to people who violate these rules (I just did it again a few minutes ago - it is hard to break). It bothers me to see these posts sitting out there for members, many whom are new to the forums and don't necessarily know all of this.

 

However the rules state that rather than replying to such posts, the way to handle it is to notify moderation if they break the rules. So that's what I will do from here on out. I apologize for off topic posts for these reasons from me in the past few days.