I used to think the whole "alpha male" stuff was made up... till recently

[Drseussgrrl]

This is about as obvious as asking why men stare at the big breasted, scantily clad woman and not the one in the bulky sweater.

[plainjane79]

Because the op said there are married women throwing themselves at this guy

 

Meh, people flirt all the time. Doesn't mean jack, really. I have straight female friends who I swear just can't communicate any other way...sometimes I think they're flirting with ME!

 

But I guess all of this has already been said by more coherent posters...

[Negative Nancy]

Thing you women might not get is that, if most guys had to choose between being (A) the guy you have nsa sex with and "dont take seriously" or (B) the nice guy you want to pin down for a relationship, most guys would rather be (A).

 

This is the truth. Most men would be players or would have a harem of multiple wives if they could.

[USMCHokie]

Are you saying I'm a PUA?? Perhaps I am...never really thought about it that way. I do like men, but I don't really think of myself as someone with much "game" and I've never thought about any kind of system with regard to my own dating approach. I go out with men I like and don't go out with men I don't. When I was younger, I occasionally made the mistake of getting involved with men who were physically appealing that I didn't like. I don't do that anymore.

 

Anyway, I'm just saying I don't take alphas seriously and I don't think most reasonably sane, healthy adult women do either. They're lovely to look at, but they're like junk food. You wake up next to a crumpled empty bag of man, feeling sick.

 

PUA as a mentality, not necessarily a method...

 

And what you describe seems to be consistent with the experiences of a lot of young women, especially those in metropolitan areas and college towns. Looks rule, because women at a young age are simply unaware of the finer qualities in a man...but they are aware of physical qualities, so that's what they got from which to judge a man's worth.

 

So OP's observations are one experienced by many younger guys here. You either wait it out for women your age to reach that state of enlightenment as you have, or you go straight for the older ones...

 

My recent ex is 18 years older than me...she appreciated what I had to offer and wasn't so fixated on looks...but if I try to date closer to my age, I have found it difficult to find the same level of acceptance from women...

[PJKino]

The point is that there's nothing wrong with it, but it seems women get very defensive, almost in vehement denial, if someone suggests that they could possibly be attracted to a good looking and successful man, i.e., the "alpha male"...it simply boggles my mind...

 

Women also admitting that this is who they go after when theyre young while regular guys near their league are ignored

 

Excuse me for beign cynical but i dont take that as women "maturing" when they get older as much it is as either a-they realize they arent good looking enough to secure these men in ltr's or b.they think a man like that would cheat on them in a relationship

[USMCHokie]

Excuse me for beign cynical but i dont take that as women "maturing" when they get older as much it is as either a-they realize they arent good looking enough to secure these men in ltr's or b.they think a man like that would cheat on them in a relationship

 

No, I agree with this. I believe we all are only as attractive as we can attract. In addition, we are attracted to what we can attract. More often than not, people's range of what they find attractive expands as they get older, simply because they can no longer attract people from within their previous attraction range ring. It's either widen the circle or be alone. Most choose the former...

 

I believe in the social market.

[Mrlonelyone]

This whole thing is about looks, of course women are attracted to the Alpha guy. Why? Usually people who are described as such are generally attractive, women may not like his personality, but they like his body, and unconsciously may want to have children with him as he may appear to have good genetics to pass on to her children. If the guy looked unattractive his poor personality isn't going to help him get anywhere, unless he was also extremely charismatic as well.

 

That's really all it is about. I would add demonstrated intelligence to that list. Demonstrated by what a man has done/created/discovered with it lately. A man who has the looks + the demonstrated intelligence will be alpha no matter how he acts.

 

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were as much if not more alpha than say Silvester Stalone.

 

Conversely the "nice guy" may have an excellent personality but not the look, therefore women like him for a friend but don't see any romantic potential, just thinking about romance with him may illicit a feeling of disgust.

 

That is true to an extent. It's not that they are disgusted they just aren't interested.

[Drseussgrrl]

"Ladies can you see how if your mans friend was this type of guy that you could posisbly be seduced in a weak moment?"

 

This is what I take most issue with.

 

Of course it's completely natural to be attracted to good-looking people. Even natural to flirt with them a little bit. We all do it.

 

I took issue most with the fact that the OP seems to think that women are weak-minded, easily-manipulated numbskulls who fawn over any tall douche with a six pack and a cocky attitude.

 

No thanks.

[Mrlonelyone]

No, I agree with this. I believe we all are only as attractive as we can attract. In addition, we are attracted to what we can attract. More often than not, people's range of what they find attractive expands as they get older, simply because they can no longer attract people from within their previous attraction range ring. It's either widen the circle or be alone. Most choose the former...

 

I believe in the social market.

 

The scientist who study this, evolutionary psychologist, call this "mate value". They think of finding a long term mate as a process of determining ones mate value and finding a mate of a similar value.

[USMCHokie]

Steve Jobs were as much if not more alpha than say Silvester Stalone.

 

I've read that Steve Jobs cried a lot...

[rocketman122]

Thing you men might not get is that (A) we're well aware that many man would rather have nsa sex and (B) most of you men...even alpha males who think they're being flirted with...aren't getting either nsa sex or being pinned down. Talking about women you think are flirting with you isn't the same as getting those women into bed with you, or spiriting them away from the non-alphas. Fact is, they're staying with their partners 9 times out of 10.

 

As I said, we make mistakes, but that's about as far as it gets. The drunken booboos may be notches on your bedposts but they're just things we'd rather forget. As I said earlier, most of these men turn out to be incredibly crap in bed.

 

wth do you woman always bring up the same things when it doesnt go your way? small penises, terrible in bed. do we bring the fact that you can take a fist in your vaginas? or that you (not you obviously)lay in bed like a cold dead piece of fish? or that we do 95% of the work while you lie on your backs and do nothing? if the lovemaking was 50/50 (which it isnt), I can understand, but riding reverse cowgirl for 30 seconds is not 50%. and no matter how you look at it, the man does the huge bulk of the work. believe me when I tell you, I sweat like I ran a marathon when im done.

 

so I can say the same about woman. not many of them are great in bed, kinky, or willing to experiment. very boring many of you. and I had some instances where I was disgusted with myself after it was all done. its not one sided.

 

btw, you know those PUA and AM's dont give a crap the next day after they screw all these woman, right? they sampled them and their done and moving to the next. its not only woman who are the ones choosing men. it has not happened that way with woman I dated. there is no argument that I choose them.

[USMCHokie]

The scientist who study this, evolutionary psychologist, call this "mate value". They think of finding a long term mate as a process of determining ones mate value and finding a mate of a similar value.

 

I've recently read and learned more about this too. Additionally, I've glanced through studies showing that relationships where there was a significant difference between mate value tended to be significantly less successful...often resulting in infidelity and/or divorce...

[Hawakai]

I never bought into the fact that these so called alpha males had magical powers over women like some people claimed i always thought it was just an excuse to why somebody cant attract women and while i still dont buy its the end all be all lately ive seen it does have some merit

 

My friend who was recently divorced and became single was the so called "alpha" of the group good looking sucessful guy always leading setting places up to go etc

 

Married women in my social circle claimed he was arrogant full of himself etc they seemed to be put off by his "alpha" aura then he becomes single lightly jokes around and flirts with these women add in a little alcohol and these married women who bad mouthed him before are know coming close to crossing the line in flriitng and touching him telling him how hot he is.

 

Is it possible these traits really do have a spell over women where they are off put by his arrogance but at the same time animally attracted because of female wiring? or maybe they were just attracted to him the whole time and badmouthed him in front of people including their husbands to mask feelings they had deep down?

 

 

Ladies can you see how if your mans friend was this type of guy that you could posisbly be seduced in a weak moment?

 

 

Firstly: it has nothing to do with confidence. Nor with social dominance. Nor with body language. Nor does it have anything to do with each woman having her own type of man(yeah brah, and I wouldn't sleep with Angelina Jolie because she's not my cup of tea).

 

This how men get laid.

 

1)height.

2)muscles.

3)good facial features.

4)money.

5)PUAistry.

 

Alpha male(looks, again) acts like a douche he gets laid. Alpha male acts like he's John Keats - how sweet! I want my parents to meet him!

 

Average guy dares to look at a woman, ugly or not, and he's branded a creep and better be careful you do not end up in jail. Those are the facts of life. No sugar-coating. And by the way. Actions>words. Don't pay attention to what people say.

[Pyro]

Thing you women might not get is that, if most guys had to choose between being (A) the guy you have nsa sex with and "dont take seriously" or (B) the nice guy you want to pin down for a relationship, most guys would rather be (A).

 

Until some of those guys f*ck up and end up knocking up one of their ONS and are now stuck with someone whom they have very little to nothing in common with but still decide to marry for the sake of the kid and then divorce due to nothing in common and then they come to places like this and complain about child support and women being evil.

 

Some may think that this NSA sex is the best thing ever until something like the above happens to them.

[rocketman122]

LOL hit a sore spot have I?

 

Haha..yes of course. the small penis doesnt bother me. im good with that. but I do care to be a great lover. im very affectionate and caring and im a giver and always attentive to my gf. I make it a priority to please her and make her happy. I dont even care if I dont finish. as long as she does a few times im happy. my GF doesnt like that I say "its my job" to please her. but imo it is. when she's happy, im happy.

 

alright, got that off my chest. im good. there are god lovers out there. maybe you've had bad luck. im sure not all were like that though.

[Hawakai]

This is the truth. Most men would be players or would have a harem of multiple wives if they could.

 

You're sure about that? I have several muslim friends, they all have mutiple wives and they're always moaning that they can't deal with all the drama, nagging ,demands and obligations. One is more than enough, they say. Although I believe they would not get married at all if it was permitted.

 

Secondly..you missed the point of the guy you quoted. Nice guys are guys women see as friends because these guys aren't good-looking or tall or especially rich. They're emotional tampoons to women. They give all of the attention and nurturing women need, and them the women go for the good-looking guys to have sex with(that's why there are so many threads on this forum on how men only want them for sex(the guys women want) and how average guys are weary of commitment(why be the sucker who pays for nothing?).

 

Its not that guys aren't interested in relationships with just one woman. Its that there's only 2 ways to live life as a man: you are either getting laid or you're being put to the test to see if you are ''boyfriend'' material, and nothing really stops the woman from getting laid with other guys while having the potential boyfriend on trial. Of course he can't have sex while he waits as long as she wants him to wait.

 

How do I know? As a man, I am a member of the inferior caste, and I've experienced first-hand and I've observed other men go through this.

[ThaWholigan]

One thing I want to point out here that hasn't been directly addressed, though TheWhaholigan sorted of hinted at it, is that it's rarely a strict dichotomy. Most men seem to fall along a continuum with full-on alphas or betas being at each end. Also, most men have fluctuating levels of "game". They can be ugly ducklings who grow into big, sexy, strong, smart men or high-school all-stars who later become bloated, beer-bellied, big mouths. It's rarely the case that a male is born an absolute alpha and remains such throughout the course of his life.

 

I've more than hinted it in the past, I've actively made threads suggesting all manner of things to improve oneself, things that I have done and am doing for myself.

 

See, I like to read a lot of these articles and information about the science of attraction too and what women say they like versus what they appear to like. All that stuff. I observe people in action too, and I always get contradictory actions taking place. For every tall good looking "Alpha" that gets girls, there's always that one short, ugly dude who always has a hot GF and they're usually loyal. Sh*t, my little short bro is more Alpha than half of these tall dudes out here.

 

The difference between me and these bitch-guys is not that bad sh*t doesn't happen to me because it does. I've had harsh rejections, been ignored and all manner of things. Or at least that is how I perceived my life to be. When I stopped thinking like a bitch, all of a sudden the floodgates opened and I started to notice the women noticing me. So that is the difference. I don't think like a bitch. I do my research and I move accordingly within my own ethical boundaries. I'm not just some uber-positive buffoon - I'm well aware, it just doesn't bother me enough to bitch about it. It just is what it is, I accept it and figure out how to rise.

 

I don't use these things as excuses. I've seen bad boys get the girl, but I've seen the opposite just as much. I've seen good looking guys trump the ugly dudes, but I also see the opposite just as much. Any particular stereotype people can throw, I see exceptions almost as much as the rule. Because I'm aware of everything, not just the bad and not just the good.

 

Be objective and be aware, don't be a little bitch.

[dasein]

The whole acrimonious nature of these threads can be explained by the -fact- that the term "alpha male" is hideously inaccurate when describing human dating and mating behavior. Same for "jerk." We have big brains, are self-reflective, and our extra family social groups are not "packs." Do women seek top men in the attributes they want in a mate? Yes. Do those attributes include a certain sense of "self-possession" and selfishness? Yes because those men who are self-possessed win the resource game. Are they all "jerks?" No. Do women and men persist in characterizing self-possessed men as "jerks" who aren't compliant with women's every wish, yet women are simultaneously attractied to them? Yes. Is any of the above particularly controversial? No.

 

There are indeed lots of what vaguely resemble state of nature "alpha males" in our society. Most of them are in prison or on their way there shortly.

[Hawakai]

I've more than hinted it in the past, I've actively made threads suggesting all manner of things to improve oneself, things that I have done and am doing for myself.

 

See, I like to read a lot of these articles and information about the science of attraction too and what women say they like versus what they appear to like. All that stuff. I observe people in action too, and I always get contradictory actions taking place. For every tall good looking "Alpha" that gets girls, there's always that one short, ugly dude who always has a hot GF and they're usually loyal. Sh*t, my little short bro is more Alpha than half of these tall dudes out here.

 

The difference between me and these bitch-guys is not that bad sh*t doesn't happen to me because it does. I've had harsh rejections, been ignored and all manner of things. Or at least that is how I perceived my life to be. When I stopped thinking like a bitch, all of a sudden the floodgates opened and I started to notice the women noticing me. So that is the difference. I don't think like a bitch. I do my research and I move accordingly within my own ethical boundaries. I'm not just some uber-positive buffoon - I'm well aware, it just doesn't bother me enough to bitch about it. It just is what it is, I accept it and figure out how to rise.

 

I don't use these things as excuses. I've seen bad boys get the girl, but I've seen the opposite just as much. I've seen good looking guys trump the ugly dudes, but I also see the opposite just as much. Any particular stereotype people can throw, I see exceptions almost as much as the rule. Because I'm aware of everything, not just the bad and not just the good.

 

Be objective and be aware, don't be a little bitch.

 

 

For every hot guy getting laid, there's some guy on a forum telling the rest of the guys that ugly dudes are getting laid with hot women, for free(well, if you take into consideration that relationships are never truly free, no).

 

I've said this and I'll say this again. I spend all day surrounded by thousands of people. I spend time with hundreds of people. White, black, and Asian. I even have girls from Iran(and they get laid like hell). Most guys don't flirt with women - you want to have your teeth kicked in by some orbiter?/its not gonna work, why bother?- and the few guys who do flirt with women and aren't attractive(decent-looking only) are rejected and made fun of.

 

The only men getting laid are the Alpha males(good looks) or the sons of ministers and doctors. That's it.

[ThaWholigan]

For every hot guy getting laid, there's some guy on a forum telling the rest of the guys that ugly dudes are getting laid with hot women, for free(well, if you take into consideration that relationships are never truly free, no).

 

I've said this and I'll say this again. I spend all day surrounded by thousands of people. I spend time with hundreds of people. White, black, and Asian. I even have girls from Iran(and they get laid like hell). Most guys don't flirt with women - you want to have your teeth kicked in by some orbiter?/its not gonna work, why bother?- and the few guys who do flirt with women and aren't attractive(decent-looking only) are rejected and made fun of.

 

The only men getting laid are the Alpha males(good looks) or the sons of ministers and doctors. That's it.

You are the kind of guy that enables these guys to come on here and bitch and be annoying . Why do you do that?

 

It's pathetic of them to be honest. I didn't do all this bitching and moaning when I wasn't getting laid.

[Lonely Ronin]

I find the endless LS debate on alphas laughable, I don't think half of you even know what 'alpha' really means. You see some good looking guy take a woman home and you just automatically assume he's alpha.

 

Most of the times the pump and dump guys that so many here want to be like aren't alphas at all, they are insecure narcissists. That's exactly why women say they suck in bed. It's all about their ego, they need to get a woman home and into bed so they can prove they are a man. They are no different than the women that go out to bars and shoot down a guy in the loudest most obnoxious way possible. It's all about her ego, she needs everyone to see her as unattainable.

[Hawakai]

I find the endless LS debate on alphas laughable, I don't think half of you even know what 'alpha' really means. You see some good looking guy take a woman home and you just automatically assume he's alpha.

 

Most of the times the pump and dump guys that so many here want to be like aren't alphas at all, they are insecure narcissists. That's exactly why women say they suck in bed. It's all about their ego, they need to get a woman home and into bed so they can prove they are a man. They are no different than the women that go out to bars and shoot down a guy in the loudest most obnoxious way possible. It's all about her ego, she needs everyone to see her as unattainable.

 

Women say they suck in bed, but the guy got them in bed. Who won? The douchebag who get them in bed. A guy can have the kama sutra memorized but if the woman does not give him a chance, he's not going to be called a stud.

 

What do you mean they are insecure? What's wrong with enjoying sex with many women? Does a guy need to be a serial-monogomist to not be a narcissist? People are going to do what they can do. Good-looking men can have sex whenever they want. They do it. For the pleasure. For the fun. Or simply because they can.

[Necris]

I've more than hinted it in the past, I've actively made threads suggesting all manner of things to improve oneself, things that I have done and am doing for myself.

 

See, I like to read a lot of these articles and information about the science of attraction too and what women say they like versus what they appear to like. All that stuff. I observe people in action too, and I always get contradictory actions taking place. For every tall good looking "Alpha" that gets girls, there's always that one short, ugly dude who always has a hot GF and they're usually loyal. Sh*t, my little short bro is more Alpha than half of these tall dudes out here.

 

The difference between me and these bitch-guys is not that bad sh*t doesn't happen to me because it does. I've had harsh rejections, been ignored and all manner of things. Or at least that is how I perceived my life to be. When I stopped thinking like a bitch, all of a sudden the floodgates opened and I started to notice the women noticing me. So that is the difference. I don't think like a bitch. I do my research and I move accordingly within my own ethical boundaries. I'm not just some uber-positive buffoon - I'm well aware, it just doesn't bother me enough to bitch about it. It just is what it is, I accept it and figure out how to rise.

 

I don't use these things as excuses. I've seen bad boys get the girl, but I've seen the opposite just as much. I've seen good looking guys trump the ugly dudes, but I also see the opposite just as much. Any particular stereotype people can throw, I see exceptions almost as much as the rule. Because I'm aware of everything, not just the bad and not just the good.

 

Be objective and be aware, don't be a little bitch.

 

What do you mean "think like a bitch"?

 

Anyway while you can be positive, they do have a point for some guys dating/relationships isn't exactly easy you can give hints and tips but if someone is truly just clueless, flat out unattractive, or women for whatever reason just do not like them (bad "auras"/pheromones/poor location?) hints and tips don't really help. In my case I try to heed the advice of others like wearing designer clothes, talking to random girls trying to flirt as much as possible, take speech lessons, etc. but I don't see any gain at all, while other guys just seem to naturally just "have it", girls just like them. Its like taking a test that has no right answers and failing every time. Honestly I find advanced Calculus much easier at least there are obvious solutions.

[Lonely Ronin]

Women say they suck in bed, but the guy got them in bed. Who won? The douchebag who get them in bed. A guy can have the kama sutra memorized but if the woman does not give him a chance, he's not going to be called a stud.

 

What do you mean they are insecure? What's wrong with enjoying sex with many women? Does a guy need to be a serial-monogomist to not be a narcissist? People are going to do what they can do. Good-looking men can have sex whenever they want. They do it. For the pleasure. For the fun. Or simply because they can.

 

The reason woman say a lot of these guys suck in bed, is because of what you pointed out. Their goal was to get her in bed, and add another notch to their belt. to them, It's a game of who can sleep with the most women, and they are competing against you. They need to be better than you, sleep with more woman than you, because they are insecure and narcissistic.

 

That's why so many of you have the 'alpha' label wrong. An alpha doesn't need to prove shi* to anyone. He's not going to sleep with a bunch of woman just because he can, he's going go for the best woman he can get. He might end up sleeping with/dating or being in a relationship wit a lot of women over his life, but his drive isn't to "score another one".

[KathyM]

I think the best catch in a man is someone who has both alpha and beta qualities. A true alpha may get some women to take notice, but as another poster said, they make poor relationship partners. They are selfish, self centered, arrogant, and tend to treat women poorly. Both of my ex BILs were alpha males, and they had all of those "qualities", which is why they are now divorced. My sister is now married to a beta male and is loving his gentle and giving spirit. To me, he seems a little too passive. I like a combination of alpha and beta traits. A true alpha male is too hard to get along with.