I used to think the whole "alpha male" stuff was made up... till recently

[MrCastle]

And just to add. Being confident, in general, is a trait people should strive to possess. How often do you hear people say "boy it's a good thing I'm not confident or this wouldn't have worked out", or "I need help, how can I lose some of my confidence? I think I have too much".

 

Confidence is a great trait to have, not just in dating, but in life in general. It's what pushes you (in dating) to approach, to shake off rejection without harnessing resentment, to take chances, to go after what you want, to (in careers) go after that big promotion, not be afraid to ask for that raise, etc. Confidence is a great tool.

 

Of course there are women out there who date or may even in some instances prefer the shy timid guy, but that's a niche market.

 

In dating you are faced with 2 options:

 

1.) I am going to be who I feel I am, not change anything, not improve any areas of my life, and just wait for somone to come along who loves me for me.

 

2.) Understand the rules of dating, the rules of attraction, and introspectively look at my life and see if there's any way I can positively improve myself. Cast a wider net and increase the amount of people interested in me, so I have variety and different type of people to choose from.

 

People read the words "confident" or "dominant" and automatically think the guy has to be a jersey shore, fist pumping douche in order to achieve it. They attach this stigma to it that makes it seem like any guy who has leadership qualities or a high level of confidence must be a jerk that lies, pumps and dumps women. That couldn't be further from the truth. You can have a quiet level of confidence, maybe not even verbally or visibly, but just in the way you project, it comes across as you knowing what you want to do, and believing you can do it. Someone who takes action when decisions need to be made and doesn't say "I don't know". You don't have to be the bad guy to have that kind of persona.

 

I'm not saying you need to be out strangling lions with your bare hands and dragging it back home. You can be manly in many different ways and not just in the typical macho, muscle bound, tarzan kind of way. It will help you in life overall if you possess those qualities.

[dreamingoftigers]

If these are men are truly avoided like the plague, then why is the US divorce rate so high...?

 

Because men keep telling us what we "want" instead of asking us and listening for the response, truly mulling it over and giving it a shot.

[aed]

Do you realy think that works for guys that can't seem to find a gf?

 

Don't you think they already tried that from the period of 13 till 24. They mostly got responses like:

 

You are such a great catch, someone will be very lucky to date you.....

Edited November 25, 2012 by aed

[MrCastle]

Because men keep telling us what we "want" instead of asking us and listening for the response, truly mulling it over and giving it a shot.

 

I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand the worst person to look to for dating advice is someone of the gender you're trying to attract.

 

So far in my life, the best nuggets of info have come to me from men who've lived it before. No woman has ever said something game changing or eye opening to me when it comes to dating.

 

What both sexes say, and what they actually do and are attracted to are totally different things.

 

If a majority of women were truly attracted to the kind of men they say they are on this forum, then the men on this forum wouldn't be here. They'd be out living happily with their significant others.

 

But it is because the falsehoods they grew up believing that have brought most of them here, unsuccessful in their dating lives. If it was true that most women went after the archetypal "nice guy", this debate would never come up as far as what do women like more, the good guy or the jerk. We'd see in real life, these "nice guys" having real success, but quite often, we don't.

 

Why is this? It has nothing to do with being "nice"; it has to do with lack of confidence, lack of drive, fear of approaching women, fear of being sexual, fear of saying or doing things women may not agree with, as opposed to living their lives for them and not for women, not being able to express themselves emotionally without coming across as needy or whiney, not taking action when action needs to be taken, and letting people walk all over them.

 

Of course both genders want someone "nice", but nice in the sense that they are good natured human beings, complete with a backbone, and a certain level of self respect and confidence.

 

My problem is sometimes on here, women use rare, anecdotal stories to make it seem like it's the norm.

 

"My boyfriend is a total comic book nerd who was living in his mom's basement when we first started dating. I was his first girlfriend and I loved him"

 

That's an endearing story, but not a common one.

 

Some men refuse to grow, look at themselves introspectively and get to the bottom of why they're not attracting women. Some continue to hold out hope that they don't need to gain confidence, improve their appearance, expand their social circle etc and rather that their dream woman will come knocking on their door.

 

Most of the advice women give to men on here is enabling men to be content and to just hang in there long enough for a fruit to drop from the tree, while the women themselves date men almost complete opposites to the men they're giving advice to, as opposed to giving them a kick in the pants and telling them what really works.

 

They also do it to save face and clear their name. No one from either gender is going to openly admit to falling for the very people they denounce, they'd much rather promote themselves as being above that, someone who doesn't fall for such things. They tell it to themselves long enough for them to believe it.

 

I have no doubt in my mind a significant majority of women on here have been burned by a player or a jerk but most won't admit it.

Edited November 25, 2012 by MrCastle

[dreamingoftigers]

 

There are a few women here who say they are attracted to the shy, socially awkward guy, but they're either lying to make such men who fit that mold on here feel better, or they're outliers in the dating game. If you want results, you have to play by the attraction rules that have been put in place since the dawn of man.

 

I am an outlier. Before my husband I dated only socially awkward, more quiet guys. I often shunned the guys chasing me because it felt like they were predatorial. What I discovered is that the quiet ones can really burn you too. They aren't as determined to have a relationship in a lot of cases or else they would be chasing one, right?

 

Furthermore they usually came with just as many, if not more hangups than the average, more pursuant man. Basically if someone believes that they suck, they are going to act like they suck. But "alphas" (notice quotes) also suck. They suck worse. But most of us can smell them a mile away. They also are like a kind of joke among us. They think they "do well with women." But really, that's like the local whore saying she "does well with men, men LOVE me." They aren't loved, they are used/enabled to continue on in being catalysed as an ego boost when a woman or man wants something quick, easy and not emotionally involved to feed their ego.

 

Difference is, most of us would rather be arousing to someone when our self-esteem is low instead of aroused. That's why "Jimmy the player" gets his catch, he does zilch, but he acts aroused and interested. That tends to do things for us on a chemical level. It also lets us know that Jimmy ain't the guy for us. He's the human dildo when things get stale.

 

I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand the worst person to look to for dating advice is someone of the gender you're trying to attract.

 

I think you may have missed that the post was specifically in response to divorce.

As we age and grow with a partner, we tend to become more in touch with our needs and notice what is "missing" in day to day contact and what we would like to fix it. Many men have their own ideas about what "we" want.

 

And, honestly, a large chunk of men aren't interested in listening or changing behavior that is toxic to a relationship. In fact, often the woman will verbally tell the man over and over (hello, nagging). Instead of listening, empathizing or considering WHAT she is saying, they will instead focus on how the delivery "shames" them and either ignore her or blow up back. Also, many men were raised to believe that they are the "head" or "sole decision maker" in the marriage. Yeah, um, that doesn't bode well.

 

Considering how deeply women need to heard about the latest music or shoes at the mall (or whatever, I don't like shoes but you get my point) NOT listening to a woman about relational needs and going one step further to COMPLETELY IGNORING or complaining to her about how she's always "bitching" is a SURE-FIRE way to end up divorced.

 

Often when a woman is most stressed about the relationship, men do what would work for them: they pull back to give her space. Since women are often trying to connect, it shoots their anxiety sky-high, and the situation gets worse. If a man looks like he can't "be there" for her with even the basics. She'll give up on him. She'll quit wanting sex and withdraw from that. It's really tough to fix from there.

 

Think of it in jungle terms. If a man leaves a woman in the jungle to fend for herself and her young enough and just comes around for sex, he is actually a liability risking her survival, (he could easily get her pregnant and chuck her) instead of an ally who watches out for her well-being and that of his family.

 

Men often don't understand why women throw in the towel permanently. It's instinctual. We have better chances alone in the jungle being strong than being alone in the jungle pregnant. A guy who can't listen or process this just isn't going to get it. If you show a woman that you can consistently protect her on both and emotional and physical level: she is far more likely to remain with you.

 

If a majority of women were truly attracted to the kind of men they say they are on this forum, then the men on this forum wouldn't be here. They'd be out living happily with their significant others.

 

But it is because the falsehoods they grew up believing that have brought most of them here, unsuccessful in their dating lives. If it was true that most women went after the archetypal "nice guy", this debate would never come up as far as what do women like more, the good guy or the jerk. We'd see in real life, these "nice guys" having real success, but quite often, we don't.

 

Why is this? It has nothing to do with being "nice"; it has to do with lack of confidence, lack of drive, fear of approaching women, fear of being sexual, fear of saying or doing things women may not agree with, as opposed to living their lives for them and not for women, not being able to express themselves emotionally without coming across as needy or whiney, not taking action when action needs to be taken, and letting people walk all over them.

 

Of course both genders want someone "nice", but nice in the sense that they are good natured human beings, complete with a backbone, and a certain level of self respect and confidence.

 

My problem is sometimes on here, women use rare, anecdotal stories to make it seem like it's the norm.

 

"My boyfriend is a total comic book nerd who was living in his mom's basement when we first started dating. I was his first girlfriend and I loved him"

 

That's an endearing story, but not a common one.

 

Some men refuse to grow, look at themselves introspectively and get to the bottom of why they're not attracting women. Some continue to hold out hope that they don't need to gain confidence, improve their appearance, expand their social circle etc and rather that their dream woman will come knocking on their door.

 

Most of the advice women give to men on here is enabling men to be content and to just hang in there long enough for a fruit to drop from the tree, while the women themselves date men almost complete opposites to the men they're giving advice to, as opposed to giving them a kick in the pants and telling them what really works.

 

They also do it to save face and clear their name. No one from either gender is going to openly admit to falling for the very people they denounce, they'd much rather promote themselves as being above that, someone who doesn't fall for such things. They tell it to themselves long enough for them to believe it.

 

I have no doubt in my mind a significant majority of women on here have been burned by a player or a jerk but most won't admit it.

 

I think most of the stable, kind, non-put-out on a first date people usually DO end up together and form stable marriages.

 

In fact that's EVERYONE I know except for the really unstable slutty girl I knew who cheated on her husband six times (including with his two brothers) and took off with a boyfriend (2 kids in that mix too, lovely). Then she ran off with the boyfriend's best friend.

 

That girl would get picked up by an "alpha" any day of the week and she's fairly pretty. Is that what's in demand these days? Are these the crazy women that y'all want to be after.

 

It seems to me that looks matter first and foremost to men, and so does sex. Well she has both BUT she's completely unstable. As long as the selection criteria for "alpha" men remains 1. looks 2. sex 3. mental stability and kindness: that is the kind of women that they will continue to pick up.

 

Most (vast majority) of people don't have these crazy, anxiety-riddled relationships with all of this weird drama. Certainly not the stable ones. They tend to meet somewhere neutral. Get to know each other slowly and become friends and then go out on some dates and see if things click. Over the course of a year or two the relationship deepens, they accept each other's flaws, work out a routine and often marry.

 

Not this: if I hit on X amount of women with formula xyz and she does zyx and I watch for IOI, than we can hit it and go out for a few months.....then someone gets attached and is crying or yelling about crap and they oscillate around in this fighting/****ing/lonely/smothered weirdness which eventually straightens up or falls apart.

 

Again, to sum up, it was about divorce and how not respecting your partner's needs and simply withdrawing is more likely to lead to one. As well as some bits about the lunacy I've seen.....

[SteveC80]

Wow six pages and my first post in here? How did this one slip past me?

 

Anyway, look; men and women are wired differently and are attracted to different things. The overwhelming majority of women want a strong, dominant, confident man. If you're not that guy, become that guy.

 

There are a few women here who say they are attracted to the shy, socially awkward guy, but they're either lying to make such men who fit that mold on here feel better, or they're outliers in the dating game. If you want results, you have to play by the attraction rules that have been put in place since the dawn of man.

 

The strong, determined, dominant, confident man gets the girl. That's just the way it is. You can label these things alpha and beta (I believe most people have traits from both sides) but whatever you need to do to become that dominant, strong man, you have to do it.

 

Don't get this confused with purely physical. Sure if you're tall and muscular, you can better push that dominant male persona since you're physically imposing, but that's not the only way.

 

It's all in how you carry yourself. I don't accept disrespectful behavior, I walk proud, I make decisions and stick by them, my word is bond, I know what I want and verbalize it, I'm confident in everything I do, etc. In other words, I'm not a push over.

 

You can do this without being a douchebag or a jerk. Being confident doesn't mean you brag about much better you are than other people, being "alpha" doesn't mean you have to be a cheater or a player or a pig or anything of the sort.

 

Being a man is being a man, and you have to be one if you want to attract women.

 

I know

 

I agree 100%.I learned the hard way when i was and in a relationship,i asked my then girlfriend what she wanted to do in terms of where we should go for that evneing and she ripped me and told me a real man makes the decisions and ended up leaving me a few weeks later

 

I then realized women want dominance and too be taken care of,i know its not pc to say but in a way women want and need a man thats better then them

 

I know it seems a ltitle trashy what my friends wives do aorund me but tis something thats in their wirng they are attracted to and cant help themsvles i guess around me

[fortyninethousand322]

So much denial in this thread it's hilarious.

 

Evolutionary biology has proven that those men with more alpha traits are the ones who pass on their genes to the next generation. Those who don't, well good luck to you, maybe one day they'll invent robots or clones that you can have as life partners.

 

One day the meek might inherit the earth, but that day is a long way in the future...

[Content]

 

I know it seems a ltitle trashy what my friends wives do aorund me but tis something thats in their wirng they are attracted to and cant help themsvles i guess around me

 

Oh get over yourself dude you dont have magical pull over women because youre a chest beating alpha and they cant control themselves.

 

You sucessfully seduced inebriated trashy women congratulations

Edited November 25, 2012 by Content

[Lonely Ronin]

I think it's less that you're an alpha male, and more that your friends have sh*tty women.

 

 

I have to agree with this, because if a woman I was dating, or married to for that matter did anything like this, the first thing they would hear from me is a famous 9 word phrase.

 

Don't let the door hit you in the ass...

[MrCastle]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass...

 

Substitute the word "door" with "dick" and you have *my* quote.

[Lonely Ronin]

I understand where you are coming from but you have to understand the worst person to look to for dating advice is someone of the gender you're trying to attract.

 

My experiences are the exact opposite, since I have started listening more to my female friends and less to my male friends i have done a lot better in the dating arena. The best advise I have gotten is "stop underestimating yourself, most good men have no idea what they are really worth."

[MrCastle]

My experiences are the exact opposite, since I have started listening more to my female friends and less to my male friends i have done a lot better in the dating arena. The best advise I have gotten is "stop underestimating yourself, most good men have no idea what they are really worth."

 

Interesting. Back when I had female friends they would give me the stereotypical "you're a good guy, you'll find someone" tired shtick that really doesn't give you anything to work with. Maybe it was just those particular women. I don't know.

[Revolver]

Interesting. Back when I had female friends they would give me the stereotypical "you're a good guy, you'll find someone" tired shtick that really doesn't give you anything to work with. Maybe it was just those particular women. I don't know.

 

"You'll make a perfect boyfriend"

 

And never end up being the boyfriend lol.

 

Alot of guys go through this stage. But the key is to realize most of the advice given is BULL****, and move on to what really works.

[MrCastle]

"You'll make a perfect boyfriend"

 

And never end up being the boyfriend lol.

 

Alot of guys go through this stage. But the key is to realize most of the advice given is BULL****, and move on to what really works.[/Quote]

 

Right. Totally. I don't know why I never realized back then "well if I'd make the perfect boyfriend, why aren't you dating me?"

 

You live and learn. The two biggest falsehoods that a lot of us grew up believing are 1.) the nice guy wins just for being a nice guy and 2.) women don't care about looks

 

When you grow up believing that, being fed those ideas, it takes a while to erase it from your memory and start looking at reality.

[EasyHeart]

It mostly depends on how well you know the women.

 

Women you meet casually and don't know that well are always going to give you platitudes like "you're a great guy" and "don't worry, you'll make a great boyfriend" (with an implied, "but not for ME, loser!"). These women aren't actually giving you advice; they're just trying to shut you up and smooth things over because they don't care about you and don't want to hear any more of your whining.

 

But if you get to really know women as friends, then you'll discover a whole new world that men usually aren't privy to. That's when you'll get the real scoop on what women really want and why they'd never date you.

[Imported]

 

You live and learn. The two biggest falsehoods that a lot of us grew up believing are 1.) the nice guy wins just for being a nice guy and 2.) women don't care about looks

 

.

 

I think a real "nice guy" does win. I know a few and I think they deserve it. They are not just nice. They are also driven, motivated to do everything without taking shortcuts. Always makes time for other people, listens to alltheir ****, actually tries to help them and it just goes on and on. These are'actually nice guys and women tend to grab them up fast. They are almost always married before 25. I couldn't tell you all the qualities that goes into them or how to properly describe them, but I do recognize when I see them.

 

I also know some whiney always complaining little bitch boys that think they are also "nice guys" and go so far as to self-proclaim that. Always talking about how girls never give them a chance because they are too nice. They are not "nice guys" to the core. They are conniving little schemers playing a role. It is a huge difference. They are trying to be nice because they think it will get them something. They are nice....until it doesn't serve them to be nice.

 

 

If you ever been or knew guys that could get girls based solely on looks alone, you would realize or be told that looks are not everything. If you can show up to where ever and have most women be very interested in you, being obviously flirtatious, getting tongue tied and nervous around you because you are just too damn good looking and your best chance at a fulfilling committed relationship was before you started talking to them, you might realize that looks are not everything. If your best approach to a girl is damage control...because you already "won" simple by showing up, but however nice and pretty the ship might look from afar...it is a sinking boat and all effort has to go towards damage control just to stay afloat. Well damage control only works for so long, so looks are not everything. And even with a healthy life style, constant and consistently working out, eating right, staying out of the sun, being pampered......looks won't last forever. Sure, you may be the best looking 60 year old playboy, but I think I would rather shoot myself in the head before I let that happen.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Imported

[Revolver]

Right. Totally. I don't know why I never realized back then "well if I'd make the perfect boyfriend, why aren't you dating me?"

 

You live and learn. The two biggest falsehoods that a lot of us grew up believing are 1.) the nice guy wins just for being a nice guy and 2.) women don't care about looks

 

When you grow up believing that, being fed those ideas, it takes a while to erase it from your memory and start looking at reality.

 

Exactly. It's ingrained in your head, women of all ages and races tell you this so it has to he true right?. For example I love my mom to death but 95% of the things she told me was absolute Crap. I don't think she meant to deliberately mislead me though

 

I think all guys even "Alphas", start out as nice. I really do, but eventually every man who's successful with women gets that epiphany(mine was my sophmore year of college).You realize it's crap and then you eventually improve yourself and make a change. Some men realize this at younger ages then others, some men never realize it. Then they're men who do realize, but refuse to change and are stuck in an endless cycle of no success with females

 

I think one of the main problems in the dating world is that most people just wont kept it real and be honest on what they like and what they dislike. Everyone wants to be PC. If we were honest, most people wouldn't be as confused as they are now, and wouldn't have false hope.

[Imajerk17]

Interesting discussion! My take:

 

(1) When women say they want a nice guy, what they really mean is that they want the guy they are attracted to, to be nice. Meaning that they are attracted to him due to his confidence, alpha qualities, and leadership, and then they hope that he is also a good person who has his life together (although some women connect to dysfunctionality--we see it in this very forum).

 

(2) What women actually go for, versus what they say they want, is different. But what women go for is also pretty different from what the PUAs say they want either. Women say they want a nice guy who has his life together. PUAs say that women want a non-needy guy who masters "active disinterest" and "push-pull" and usually who is also into "self-improvement". Women have actually gone for something different from either though--guys who have issues, guys who are needy, and yes, these guys aren't even that good-looking.

 

(3) Women respond to male leadership. When you think about how that seems to go against so much of what women are being told about how they should be, it's not so surprising that many women have trouble admitting this. Consider this: Women grew up being told that they could do everything their brothers could do. Hell their moms and aunts fought for them to have access to opportunities that were previously open to males. And about every "self-help" book out there, where most of the readers are women by the way, promotes taking responsibility for yourself. After all that, a woman still responds to the man to make the moves, plan the dates, and do the driving?? She might not get why that is true about herself either.

Edited November 25, 2012 by Imajerk17

[carhill]

OP, speaking to your particular anecdote, it's completely reasonable that the married ladies are doing nothing more than validating their ability to get the attention of a socially accepted popular male. If successful, they feel positive about 'still having it' and go back to their daily routines and married life. The male himself is interchangeable. His status is what they were testing. Another, lesser, male would be worthless to them as a test or validation. Further, if any of those are 'affairing', they're 'affairing up', further validating their female potency. It's just ego at work, or rather id without the filters of propriety. Life goes on.

[Mrlonelyone]

So much denial in this thread it's hilarious.

 

Evolutionary biology has proven that those men with more alpha traits are the ones who pass on their genes to the next generation. Those who don't, well good luck to you, maybe one day they'll invent robots or clones that you can have as life partners.

 

One day the meek might inherit the earth, but that day is a long way in the future...

 

Yes, the only thing to question is what you mean by these "alpha" traits. It's not a simple linear equation with constant coefficients in one or two dimensions. It is multivariable calculus

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFPNtzf6pd0

 

It is why that guy was, in his particular way, alpha enough to have women who would raise his children and deal with his BS even as he did little for them. Except, perhaps, provide the genes to give their sons an attractive if not beautiful mind. He did that while being a super nerdy geek of geeks. Same could be said of Einstein....he was Alpha enough to win over the one woman in his class.

 

My point is, don't be so obsessed with one formula for how to be alpha. It is a state that is situational, changes from time to time and with who's around. Just be who you are the best you can. Climb that ladder as high as you can and an appropriate woman will present herself.

 

Everwise Carhill:

OP, speaking to your particular anecdote, it's completely reasonable that the married ladies are doing nothing more than validating their ability to get the attention of a socially accepted popular male. If successful, they feel positive about 'still having it' and go back to their daily routines and married life. The male himself is interchangeable. His status is what they were testing. Another, lesser, male would be worthless to them as a test or validation. Further, if any of those are 'affairing', they're 'affairing up', further validating their female potency. It's just ego at work, or rather id without the filters of propriety. Life goes on.

 

So true, so true. Married men and women both do this sort of thing. People want to know that they are wanted not out of obligation or complacency but out of passion. I've noticed married people will carry on an emotional affair now and again with no intention of doing anything physical. Others consider even that much to be cheating. At one point in time they called it courtly love. Something that has been with us for a long time.

[AD1980]

OP, speaking to your particular anecdote, it's completely reasonable that the married ladies are doing nothing more than validating their ability to get the attention of a socially accepted popular male. If successful, they feel positive about 'still having it' and go back to their daily routines and married life. The male himself is interchangeable. His status is what they were testing. Another, lesser, male would be worthless to them as a test or validation. Further, if any of those are 'affairing', they're 'affairing up', further validating their female potency. It's just ego at work, or rather id without the filters of propriety. Life goes on.

 

Fair point..women do seem to carry on the high school mentality more then men

 

So its possible its not sexual just an ego stroke like high school with the popular jock liking her

 

I just found it odd that these women when hes not their call him arrogant and full of himself then do a 180 and flirt with him..

 

I wondered if those words are just a cover up in front of their husbands to mask their feelings for him or if they really feel that way about him and use him for nothing more then an object and as validation of the big fish liking them so to speak

Edited November 25, 2012 by AD1980

[Mrlonelyone]

Fair point..women do seem to carry on the high school mentality more then men

 

So its possible its not sexual just an ego stroke like high school with the popular jock liking her

 

I just found it odd that these women when hes not their call him arrogant and full of himself then do a 180 and flirt with him..

 

I wondered if those words are just a cover up in front of their husbands to mask their feelings for him or if they really feel that way about him and use him for nothing more then an object and as validation of the big fish liking them so to speak

 

Let me break it down for you this way. In a certain sense humans have three brains. A upper thinking brain that can look at someone objectively and know their an *********, and a couple of lower instinctual brains where emotions reside.

 

Those women know on a thinking level those men are no good but react on an emotional level.

 

How many women do you see think they are beautiful, might want to just have sex with them, but know that they are a mental basket case? It's no different when it comes to attractive men.

[AD1980]

Let me break it down for you this way. In a certain sense humans have three brains. A upper thinking brain that can look at someone objectively and know their an *********, and a couple of lower instinctual brains where emotions reside.

 

Those women know on a thinking level those men are no good but react on an emotional level.

 

How many women do you see think they are beautiful, might want to just have sex with them, but know that they are a mental basket case? It's no different when it comes to attractive men.

 

Fair point but when its your husbands friend? thats a little bold.Even most dudes draw the line their when its a friends girl

[Mrlonelyone]

Fair point but when its your husbands friend? thats a little bold.Even most dudes draw the line their when its a friends girl

 

Again, flirting is a subconcious thing. No one thinks hey I'm gonna go flirt with that person. It's like a sneeze but more complicated.

 

Often these women have no thinking idea that they are going to actually do anything with the people they flirt with. Just as men don't jump on every woman they flirt with.

 

People of all kinds flirt with me and I've flirted with people of both genders never was I thinking about what I was doing. Usually I only realize it in retrospect.

[fortyninethousand322]

Right. Totally. I don't know why I never realized back then "well if I'd make the perfect boyfriend, why aren't you dating me?"

 

You live and learn. The two biggest falsehoods that a lot of us grew up believing are 1.) the nice guy wins just for being a nice guy and 2.) women don't care about looks

 

When you grow up believing that, being fed those ideas, it takes a while to erase it from your memory and start looking at reality.

 

I used to believe #1, but I never believed #2. For the longest time I believed women cared about looks to the exclusion of all other factors. Obviously I no longer hold that to be true...