Was it doomed before I even met her?

[GSB81]

Hey guys, this is my first post here but I have been reading for the last few days. I would like to get some opinions on an issue. I've been talking to this girl for a little more than two months and everything was great for the first month or so. One day we were talking and it came up that her best friend is also her ex boyfriend. This automatically made me feel uncomfortable. They work together and hang out a lot in their circle of friends. They dated for 2 years and have been broken up for 4. He is also engaged to a friend of hers, but she's oddly never in any pics of their outings. I was very up front about how uncomfortable this made me, and a few days later we got to talking about it again and I told her that maybe I should back off because I was worried it would bother me to the point of it ruining our relationship if we went that far, but she assured me it was nothing to worry about. They weren't compatible as a couple but ended up being very close friends. I told her that such a relationship can be an issue in future relationships, I dropped it and it didn't come up again till last weekend.

 

Friday they ran a marathon together with her mom and a bunch of mutual friends. That night she started uploading pics from the event to Facebook. In the ones of them both, they were always right beside each other. Again, his fiance was nowhere to be seen. This stoked the fires of jealousy a bit, but I held my tongue until she said I'd have to go with them on the next one. I sure wasn't invited on the this outing (couldn't have gone anyway due to work.) I replied with "can I bring my ex?" She said sure and acted like it didn't bother her.

 

Every since it first came up about her relationship with her ex being a source of concern for me, I noticed she talked to me less, but I could tell the cold shoulder was turned up a notch. I apologized for the remark about bringing my ex, and sincerely meant it, but it didn't matter to her. She said it ruined the marathon for her and the she liked me but couldn't handle the jealousy. I asked her to try to see it from my pov and ask herself how shed feel if I did the same stuff with my ex and posted similar pics. She said she wouldn't mind if the ex was "an integral part of your support system."

 

Fast forward to Tuesday. She works nights, so I don't expect a response till the afternoon if I text her. I sent her one and about an hour later I haven't got a response, yet she's talking to her friends on Facebook. I waited awhile and said "guess you're awake." That set her off and she launched into this "we aren't compatible and I obviously can't give you what you need and you can't accept my flaws so I quit" convo. So I called her and the convo heads straight to her ex and she keeps saying I'm insecure. My reply to this was something along the lines of "how many of your other male friends have been an issue? None. Do I badger you with questions? No. My issue is not that you have a friend who is a guy but that you were a couple for 2 years and you seem really protective of him now." at this point she starts crying and saying I'm putting down her relationship with him and how he's always going to be a part of her life unless they have a huge blowout. I told her she was pretty much dooming any future relationship she might have for a guy who is about to be getting married. She said she was done, I said bye and hung up. She then deleted me from Facebook.

 

If you have read all of this, I thank you. Here is the question. Was this failure my fault? Would you guys be able to accept an SO who is in what appears to be a codependent relationship with an ex? Would you ever be first in a relationship like that or would it be automatic second place in terms of time and affection? Thanks again and in advance.

[volentia]

sorry for your break up. as a woman i have no qualms about being friends with an ex. sometimes we break up becuase we can see how and why it wont work, but it dosent always stop us just being friends. even close friends.

my ex wouldnt have been happy me staying friends with an ex either, he wouldn't have liked it or understood the need for it at all, and i can understand why.

yet some men are able to shrug and even welcome these kind of relationships because they pose no threat as such, as are some women.

i think you need to work on the trusting of others issues, as she said you ought not to worry. or accept that this is one of your values in a relationship, that you must have.

no ones to blame here.... no one is at fault. just self awareness at play

[lukas]

I think that a lot of women are very naive in this regard. This reminds me a lot of an ex of mine who was very good friends with an ex of hers. While it did bother me at the time, I said and did nothing about it because I was confident that she was over him. He was still very much into her regardless of his personal status.

 

There are likely things she never told you about. One must recall that if you have found someone attractive in the past you most likely still will. Some day she may very well wake up in his bed and regret it.

 

Be happy that this hasn't worked out. If it bothers you that she is this close to someone else, as I think it rightfully should, then you are better off without her.

[GSB81]

Thanks for your replies. I asked a few female friends about it too and they said I will probably hear from her again after he gets married and the new wife puts her foot down.

[veggirl]

You did the right thing. I don't date people who are "friends" with their exes, period. If other people have a problem with that, oh well. It's a boundary I have and I stick to and will continue to do so. I will tell you one thing, it avoids situations like the one you are in. She was putting her ex boyfriend as a higher priority than she was putting you and your feelings. Dealbreaker.

[salparadise]

I agree with Veggirl completely on this one.

 

I got burned once by a woman who claimed to be "just friends" with her ex when the actuality was that there was a lot more to it. She did a good job of gaslighting... convincing me that my jealousy was based in insecurity and that I had trust issues that needed to be worked on. Turns out that she was seriously BSC, disingenuous to the core. One thing that came of that is that my radar for bull$hit is highly attuned now. Integrity is mandatory and I won't open up to anyone until I'm sure about that aspect of their personality.

 

I've written about this before, but my belief is that relationships between men and women inherently involve the sexual component, and even if it's not being acted upon the potential is there. Sometimes they have an interest based relationship, such as running marathons or flying kites or whatever, and each have strong superegos that allow them to hold firm boundaries. But the potential is still there. If they were previously involved emotionally and sexually, or if they're providing emotional support to each other and confiding in each other, then it's more like a probability.

 

The thing is that when men and women are in a healthy relationship they are primary to each other. This means they have a one to one relationship. When you introduce a third person it becomes a triangle, even if the third corner is not sexual, the couple are no longer exclusive emotionally. This changes all the relationship dynamics since one person is dividing their attention in an alternate emotional entanglement while the other is trying to have a one to one relationship with that person. It's not balanced, doesn't work. Read about Bowen theory if you're interested in learning more.

[GSB81]

Great posts guys, it confirms I wasn't just being a jealous ass. In the first conversation we had about it, I said as long as he is around, her prospective boyfriends will always be in direct competition with him and he's already far in the lead with a 6+ year advantage and she kept saying how ridiculous that was. I made the point with a hypothetical ultimatum. "If I were to tell you right now that it's him or me, there's no way you'd choose me. But if he were to pose the same question, you'd pick him without hesitation. Am I wrong?" She just kinda went silent and then said "You don't know that!!!" Is it weird that I hope the guys wife someday gives him a similar ultimatum? During our last conversation, she said she knows the relationship is weird but "it works for me." I replied "If you know it's weird, why do you expect me to accept it like it isn't? Why do you keep blaming my issue with it on insecurity and jealousy?" She started crying and didn't answer.

[road]

I agree with Veggirl completely on this one.

 

I got burned once by a woman who claimed to be "just friends" with her ex when the actuality was that there was a lot more to it. She did a good job of gaslighting... convincing me that my jealousy was based in insecurity and that I had trust issues that needed to be worked on. Turns out that she was seriously BSC, disingenuous to the core. One thing that came of that is that my radar for bull$hit is highly attuned now. Integrity is mandatory and I won't open up to anyone until I'm sure about that aspect of their personality.

 

I've written about this before, but my belief is that relationships between men and women inherently involve the sexual component, and even if it's not being acted upon the potential is there. Sometimes they have an interest based relationship, such as running marathons or flying kites or whatever, and each have strong superegos that allow them to hold firm boundaries. But the potential is still there. If they were previously involved emotionally and sexually, or if they're providing emotional support to each other and confiding in each other, then it's more like a probability.

 

The thing is that when men and women are in a healthy relationship they are primary to each other. This means they have a one to one relationship. When you introduce a third person it becomes a triangle, even if the third corner is not sexual, the couple are no longer exclusive emotionally. This changes all the relationship dynamics since one person is dividing their attention in an alternate emotional entanglement while the other is trying to have a one to one relationship with that person. It's not balanced, doesn't work. Read about Bowen theory if you're interested in learning more.

 

 

People in relationships do not need Op sex friends. No way jose on being friends with ex's.

[salparadise]

she said she knows the relationship is weird but "it works for me." I replied "If you know it's weird, why do you expect me to accept it like it isn't? Why do you keep blaming my issue with it on insecurity and jealousy?" She started crying and didn't answer.

 

No, you weren't. There seems to be a trend these days where [some] women try to have these extracurricular attachments, pass it off as inconsequential, and blame the bf for not being evolved enough to accept it. They are the ones who are confused. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Every choice a person makes has opportunity cost. Most people understand that the cost of hanging onto a relationship that's comfortable but isn't going anywhere is that it prevents you from finding a great relationship that will go somewhere. This is exactly what she's doing except rather than awareness she has created a convenient delusion... essentially, that she can actually have her cake and eat it too.

 

She is going to feel pretty darn silly when the guy's new wifey puts an end to it after she tossed away the chance for a real relationship. It really is delusional. The upside for you is, the ex-bf fancy prevented you from getting too deep with someone who has a predisposition for mental/emotional gymnastics, is clueless about the nature of romantic attachments, and is not inclined to budge an inch based on the way you think and feel about something important.

[road]

"women try to have these extracurricular attachments, pass it off as inconsequential, and blame the bf for not being evolved enough to accept it. They are the ones who are confused. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too."

 

Cake eaters.

[MYCluciferase]

GSB81,

your questions "Would you guys be able to accept an SO who is in what appears to be a codependent relationship with an ex? Would you ever be first in a relationship like that or would it be automatic second place in terms of time and affection?"

 

- Yes, I've accepted a relationship like that, but it was always blighted by the ex-, who was actually married all though his six year relationship with my girlfriend! Although this affair had ended (but not his marriage!), he was always somehow 'there' in the relationship, whether passing criticisms of me through her, or wanting to do things with her, wanting to influence how she thought about things.

 

I'm open-minded on this, and believe it really can work out in some cases, but you need to be very very careful, and need to feel confident in your relationship and not be the jealous type. It also depends on the ex- being willing to let go to some extent...

In some cases, yes, it can be doomed before it even gets off the ground - I think my relationship was too, but it staggered on for 18 months.

 

Good luck next time.

[todreaminblue]

If a woman decides to keep an ex over a current partner(chooses him ) her feelings are stronger for that person and not resolved ,so her calling it quits was good for you not so good for her....she will realize in the future her ex is an ex for a reason.....deb.

[GSB81]

MYCLUCIFERASE, how can you not be the jealous type when your SO is introducing a third party into your relationship? You accepted your ex's relationship with her ex and it was a source of misery, so what good did not being jealous do? Seems like no matter how you approach it, odds are its going to end bad and that just about proves that the problem is the introduction of the ex into the equation and not how you react to it.

[seibert253]

Her relationship with her X was more important than her relationship with you.

You're fine, she's the one whose F'd up.

 

She and her X will evolve into and A after he gets M'd, unles his new W puts the smackdown on their "frienship".

 

I think you dodged a bullet.

[2sunny]

Great posts guys, it confirms I wasn't just being a jealous ass. In the first conversation we had about it, I said as long as he is around, her prospective boyfriends will always be in direct competition with him and he's already far in the lead with a 6+ year advantage and she kept saying how ridiculous that was. I made the point with a hypothetical ultimatum. "If I were to tell you right now that it's him or me, there's no way you'd choose me. But if he were to pose the same question, you'd pick him without hesitation. Am I wrong?" She just kinda went silent and then said "You don't know that!!!" Is it weird that I hope the guys wife someday gives him a similar ultimatum? During our last conversation, she said she knows the relationship is weird but "it works for me." I replied "If you know it's weird, why do you expect me to accept it like it isn't? Why do you keep blaming my issue with it on insecurity and jealousy?" She started crying and didn't answer.

 

People don't cry and get emotional for nothing.

 

She's so emotionally invested in him - she doesn't leave room for available men.

 

Maybe he likes it that way - and that's why he stays in her life...

[Bryanna]

You dodged a bullett! She's still hung up on him. I am sure you are not the first guy to back off a bit over this odd friendship. Being civil and friendly is one thing, hanging out? Just odd. Count you blessings.

[2sunny]

Since she makes him her priority - she's showing evidence that she is not over him.

[GSB81]

You dodged a bullett! She's still hung up on him. I am sure you are not the first guy to back off a bit over this odd friendship. Being civil and friendly is one thing, hanging out? Just odd. Count you blessings.

 

 

She mentioned that she had been talking to this guy over the summer and he just out of the blue cut all communication with her without any explanation. I see why now!

[babsie007]

You can't be friends with an ex... That closeness that was once shared will never go away and there will always be the danger that you find that person attractive as you did previously. I also wonder as his fiancée isn't in any of the pics, if this girl is trying to make you jealous on purpose. Either that or she still holds a flame for this guy and would like something to happen.

[GSB81]

So yesterday I'm on Facebook and this friend suggestion pops up for the girl's ex/best friend. Nothing odd about this, I went to college with one of their coworkers. So I clicked on it to be nosey I guess. I'd seen his page before when she tagged him in some pics, and right under his name it said "Engaged." Guess what... It doesn't say that anymore. Now of course there could be several reasons for this, but it's very possible that his fiancé finally had enough of their crap. Maybe now they can do it right instead of dragging others into doomed relationships with them.

Edited December 8, 2012 by GSB81