Complicated situation with MM (who happens to be an in-law)

[MsMH]

This is a bizarre situation. I guess I just need to get it off my chest because the mixed messages are overwhelming. The short story is, I am in love with my fiance's cousin. I am 31 and he is 60. He has been married for almost 29 years and has one adult child I developed feelings for him about a year-and-half ago. At first, I thought it was just innocent lust and tried to ignore it, but my feelings for him only intensified. At first, it was an easy situation to ignore because my fiance and I lived out of state, but this past summer, we moved to the same town as his cousin. Whenever the cousin and I are together, the flirtation is intense, to the point where my fiance has gotten extremely angry. Recently, it has gotten more intense. A few weeks ago, we were at a party and for much of the evening, he had his arm around me. He also often makes very sexual/flirty jokes. This whole evening culminated with my fiance being rude to me. The next day, I met up with the cousin (for an unrelated matter) and he told me that he thought I should leave my fiance because I deserve better. I agreed. It is true: I haven't been happy for a long time. My fiance and his parents are really the only people in the family who haven't estranged this cousin (for reasons I won't go into here) and he said that he realized that being the catalyst behind the breakup might mean estrangement from everyone else, but he was okay with that. He also made it clear that he would do whatever it took to protect me from my finance's rudeness ("I'll drive right over and punch him if he ever treats you that way again."). (It's not an abusive or dangerous relationship, so I didn't need any actual protection.) That night, he asked me to put his phone number in my cell phone under his wife's name, so he could call me without alerting my fiance.

 

This past week, I called him to wish him a happy Thanksgiving. During the conversation, I told him the reason my fiance was so angry at the party was because he thought I was "excessively flirting." The cousin asked me, "Do you think you were excessively flirting" and told him that yes, I probably was.

Finally, I just couldn't contain myself anymore. I asked him if he wanted to meet me for lunch, dinner, or drinks or something and he said that probably wan't a good idea without his wife present because he might "get in trouble." He could hear the disappointment in my voice and asked me about it and I finally just decided to say it. I told him I was "very attracted" to him and he said that didn't surprise him, although he did sound surprised that I was telling him this. He said he had never been in "this kind of situation" before. I was feeling pretty bold, so I then told him that I wanted "**** [him] badly." He said he was extremely flattered, blushing, and found it hard enough to take compliments like that at 18, let alone at 60. He also said I was "killing him." I apologized, although I wasn't really sorry, and he said he said there was nothing to apologize for and something to the effect that nothing would change because of this disclosure. At some point, during the course of our discussion, he also said something to the effect that, although my relationship with my fiance is bad, we (the cousin and I) never would have met if our fiance and I had not been together.

 

I came away from the conversation with the impression that he might think that I'm just looking for some way out of my relationship and does not understand that I care about him deeply and would want him regardless of anything else. I also know that, while he loves his wife, she isn't attracted to him anymore. (She told me this flat out.)

 

He said he was going to call me next week so that we can make plans to go out. (With him and his wife together or him alone, I have no idea. I have a feeling he hasn't decided yet.)

 

All this said, I can't tell if he was just being careful during our phone conversation to protect the delicate situations of his marriage and family relationships and is interested in me or if he's just been innocently flirting with me. If it's all been innocent flirtation and just cares about me as a friend, I'm surprised that he's willing to punch his own cousin and destroy his family ties as some sort of retaliation for being rude to me in a way that didn't even upset me too much. It's just a bit oddly protective. His flirtation also seem way over the top and sexualized (and not just to me)... yet he didn't try to make a move on me when we were alone and he asked me to leave my fiance, nor did he say anything to directly imply that he was interested in me when I professed my feelings.

 

I did tell my fiance that his cousin said that I deserve to be treated better and he thinks that his cousin is just trying to put a wedge in our relationship so that he can have me for himself. (Either way, I'm pretty certain I'm on my way out of that relationship.)

 

I don't know. Time will tell, I guess.

[Ladydrib]

He doesn't want you to leave your finace and he's not going to pursue you, but he's certainly not going to say no or stop you from pursuing him. He's letting you drive and he will let you take it as far as you want to go, until you reach his boundary, which is probably leaving his wife. This is where he will draw the line. And don't you worry about his risks. The potential sex with a 29 year old is worth risking it all. After all, we only live once! And he knows you don't want anyone to know about this either. That's just enough risk to make it even more exciting, as if a 29 year old who is interested in a 60 year old is not exciting enough.

 

Get out of thus situation asap. If you don't, you will be very sorry. I promise you, whatever amount of years you are about to spend in this (and trust me, it very well could be years) you will not look back on it with pride. You will not look back on it with satisfaction. In fact, you will likely be emotionally screwed up and you will see it as though you threw those years of your life away. You will be completely mentally exhausted and you will be very sorry.

 

Tell him now that it the dialogues you've had are very inappropriate and that you definitely will not go out with him or hold conversations with him in secrecy.

[MsMH]

He actually DOES want me to leave my fiance and has told me this multiple times. I'm not sure whether he wants that because he cares about my well-being or whether he wants me for himself. However, my initial thought was that he is actually just acting out of genuine concern. I don't think he'll leave his wife. Would I like him to? I'd be lying if I said no, but I don't think he will. I probably will regret this later on, but am willing to take that risk. I was just unsure whether he's even interested in sleeping with me.

[Ladydrib]

He actually DOES want me to leave my fiance and has told me this multiple times. I'm not sure whether he wants that because he cares about my well-being or whether he wants me for himself. However, my initial thought was that he is actually just acting out of genuine concern. I don't think he'll leave his wife. Would I like him to? I'd be lying if I said no, but I don't think he will. I probably will regret this later on, but am willing to take that risk. I was just unsure whether he's even interested in sleeping with me.

 

Don't be foolish. He's grooming you for an affair.

[2sure]

Cant help but wonder the reason this cousin is estranged from the entire rest of the family.

 

Also wondering what your fiancé did that was rude and why you think he did it?

[MsMH]

Cant help but wonder the reason this cousin is estranged from the entire rest of the family.

 

Also wondering what your fiancé did that was rude and why you think he did it?

 

 

I don't feel comfortable sharing the details about the estrangement, but the was undermined by another family member and accused of doing something criminal and heinous. (The allegations were false).

 

My fiance has some anger management issues in general. He yells a lot, calls people names, and has trouble regulating his emotions. This isn't just toward me, however. It's his own thing and an ongoing issue that precedes our relationship.

[Tenacity]

He actually DOES want me to leave my fiance and has told me this multiple times. I'm not sure whether he wants that because he cares about my well-being or whether he wants me for himself.

 

Why on earth do you care??? You are supposed to be engaged. You are a grown woman, correct? Not a teenager? Because you sound selfish and very immature. Sorry, but you do.

 

You should not give one flying **** whether this old man wants you to leave your fiancé or not. It's YOUR relationship! Why are you leaving your decisions up to other people?

 

And clearly, he doesn't want you "for himself." He hasn't even said a word about wanting anything to do with you. Most old men would jump all over the chance to screw a woman half their age.... he isn't even doing that. Clearly he was taken aback by your confession of having feelings for him and is not sure the sex is worth getting involved in an emotional situation which he doesn't want.

 

You need to get out of your engagement. Pronto. And THEN worry about your sex life and/or love life. You need to do a lot of work on yourself but I doubt you will do it.

 

This old man has no feelings for you. He sounds like a complete loser to me.

[MsMH]

Why on earth do you care??? You are supposed to be engaged. You are a grown woman, correct? Not a teenager? Because you sound selfish and very immature. Sorry, but you do.

 

You should not give one flying **** whether this old man wants you to leave your fiancé or not. It's YOUR relationship! Why are you leaving your decisions up to other people?

 

And clearly, he doesn't want you "for himself." He hasn't even said a word about wanting anything to do with you. Most old men would jump all over the chance to screw a woman half their age.... he isn't even doing that. Clearly he was taken aback by your confession of having feelings for him and is not sure the sex is worth getting involved in an emotional situation which he doesn't want.

 

You need to get out of your engagement. Pronto. And THEN worry about your sex life and/or love life. You need to do a lot of work on yourself but I doubt you will do it.

 

This old man has no feelings for you. He sounds like a complete loser to me.

 

I wasn't going to leave at his request, but he did have some valid points about how one should or should not be treated in a relationship. I don't think he's a loser. I think, indeed, that he is very kind to have concern for my well-being, which I think just may be the case here.

 

You're right: I do need to get out of my current relationship. I do care for this (very kind) man deeply, but my fear is that you're right. If he wanted me, he probably would have made a move already.

[MsMH]

So you are upset that the old man hasn't made a move on you? Maybe he just has more integrity than you think? Maybe he actually cares about his wife? Maybe he can see that anything with you would cause more issues in the family and he isn't willing to do that. I understand that all you are caring about is getting him into bed - you don't seem to care at all about your fiance or his wife or the rest of the family.

 

You seem upset that he hasn't gone for it yet with you. That is really really messed up. You don't sound like you are 31 - more like you are 16 and don't realize the damage that can be done to everyone because you have the hots for an old guy who is twice your age. I guess you won't stop until you get what you want.

 

I sure hope your fiance figures out what you are up to, right under his nose, and decides you need to find a new place to live. I feel pity for you - that you have such low self esteem that you are willfully and with earnest trying to get a married man to have an affair with you.

 

Okay, first 60 isn't old, but whatever. I know he cares about his wife, but I also realize his relationship is imperfect. If she was willing to admit to me--someone she doesn't know well--that she isn't attracted to him, that gives me a pretty good picture of what's going on in their relationship. Just like he told me that I deserve to be treated better, I think that he deserves to be treated better. I chose not to tell him that, however.

 

I know that family issues are a big concern for him and that's the single reason why I haven't shared my feelings with him sooner. However, after he brought up first that he would accept taking the fall for the end of my relationship--whatever that meant for his family--then I took it as a sign that it wasn't something untouchable and sacred to him, whatever his intentions may be.

 

I'm not going to even make an effort to explain, justify, or defend my character or self-esteem. Not worth the time or effort because no one's opinion is going to be swayed.

[MsMH]

If you pursue this, it is going to be a trainwreck of epic proportions. You are engaged... why are you engaged to someone you sound like you don't even like?

Now is the time to end that relationship.

Some guys are flirty and mean nothing, some guys are on the prowl, the fact that he declined tells me maybe you are misreading things. Not sure, I'd need more information to make any kind of assessment on this, but either way, is this really what you want? Some guy that is twice your age (I am not against age gaps, but he's 60 and you aren't even 30. It sucks to be grieving a partner while in your 30s. Hell it sucks anytime and being with someone that much older is pretty much guaranteeing it.

Aside from that... train...wreck.

What does he have that is everything you want? Because trust me if you don't think he's pretty much perfect in every other regard... then being married is a flaw you aren't going to be able to overlook.

 

First, I should mention that I don't *not like* my fiance. I don't like his behaviors (namely, his anger management issues), but he's a good person, underneath it all. Beyond that, we have never been "in love." I guess we've stayed together mostly out of convenience. Plus, we do care about each other on some level. Unfortunately, he's not willing to address any of the issues that have driven me away. I'm sure it's not apparent from this post, but I've done a lot of emotional work myself and at this point, I'm just seeing that I found someone else who makes me feel the way I want to feel--calm, heard, respected, and cared about. Ending this relationship is going to be as complicated as a lot of divorced. We've lived together for six years and have combined finances and assets. I know that the situation isn't optimal, but I can't just jump out on an impulse. The cousin understands this; he's giving me the emotional support that I need to work through this.

 

I actually am over thirty (well, barely, 31), and yes, this man is twice my age. Over the past year-and-a-half, I've given it a lot of thought and I'd take a short amount of time with him and the heartbreak that would come with such a large age gap over not having him at all. He's not perfect; no one is perfect, but the flaws I do see, I can live with. I love that I've found someone with whom I can share a deep mutual understanding and who is willing to be my non-judgmental confidant. He's funny, intelligent, and (although everyone here seems to like to call him "old") handsome and sexy. There is also an undeniable chemistry between us. From the first day I met him, I had a gut feeling about him. I guess I could best describe it as a feeling of certainty and contentment. It was as though him just being in the world made me have faith that everything was going to be okay.

 

There is, of course, the possibility that the flirting is innocent, but it's been pretty obvious and beyond what I would call casual flirting (a lot of touching, hugging, talk of overly sexual topics, sharing food with me). It was blatant enough for people to ask questions. Of course, he didn't make his move and I can't speculate why. He didn't overtly turn me down; rather, he just noted that, well, things could veer off into trainwreck territory. It could go either way, really: he might feel nothing for me or he might just be acting very carefully (something that I think might come with age and the experience of having been socially outcast in a serous way). It's hard to speculate. I guess we'll see when (if?) he calls me next week like he said he would.

[MsMH]

Yeah....

Your posts don't read like someone that likes their fiance... also, you shouldn't marry someone you don't love. It's not fair to either of you.

 

I didn't call him old but like I said, you do need to look at that. Like I said, I can't speculate as to what his actions mean, but if he was looking to be with you, over the course of a year and a half, he'd have made a move is my opinion becasue at 60, trust me, he isn't likely to leave his wife.

 

Do you want to be the other woman, it's not exactly the "choice" role to live, but if that's what you pick, good luck. I think you'll need it. Please keep posting, you're going to need the support. I don't see this ending well.

 

You're right; it's not fair. Regardless of what comes across in this hastily-written forum post, I do love him, even though it's not in a passionate way. I know that and that's really all that matters.

 

I guess the year-and-a-half time frame is kind of skewed because a year of that was spent living in a different state from him. We had only minimal contact via my fiance. It's really only in the past few months that we've started hanging out and all except one of those times was spent with other people, so admittedly, he's had few changes to make any moves. The only time we were alone was for about 20 minutes, in his car, when he told me I should leave my fiance. That was when he gave me his phone number (and told me to enter it under another name).

 

I'm okay with being the other woman. I'd love for him to leave his wife, but I'm not expecting it, for the reasons you pointed out. I don't think she treats him right, but who am I to judge.

 

Whether it ends well or not, I know what I feel for him and if it's as real as it feels, it'll be worth it. I've had my fair share of relationships in my 31 years (including one prior marriage) and I can't say I've ever felt this way about anyone before.

[MsMH]

I'm just confused. You think you've been through a lot and being the OW is somehow going to be easier than breaking things off with your fiance? Really?

And you think that you owe him some discussion of whats' happening and why, and yet you are planning on sleeping with his cousin? I am having trouble reconciling this.

Maybe I'm just tired, but it isn't making sense to me.

 

I am happy with my relationship and my choice to be the OW...so I tend to be more open minded than many, but this I'm not quite able to wrap my head around. I think you are headed for a lot of heartbreak.

 

I've been an OW before. Yes, it can be tough, but for me personally, no I don't think it will be as tough as starting all over and establishing a new home and a whole new life. Also, for all our problems, losing that stability and companionship (for all his flaws) is going to be a major upheaval in my life. Stability is hugely important to me. Having sex with a man for whom I'm over over the moon? Not exactly the same as changing everything I've known for years and starting over after all the other major life changes I've gone through this year (a major move, a career change, the deaths of two close family members). My fiance already had parts of this discussion, too. He's know I've been attracted to his cousin for about six months now. The attraction was apparent to everyone else; I couldn't (and wouldn't) lie about it. The discussion also needs to go way beyond the cousin. It needs to go into the deeper issues about why this wasn't working on a fundamental level. I broke up with him once before, about five years ago, because of his anger issues and just left, like you suggested. The way I went about it just felt wrong to me and sent me into a tailspin of depression. It clearly wasn't the right way to handle things and I can't afford to make that mistake again, financially or emotionally.

[Pierre]

My first post to you was deleted because it was harsh. And I agree, the post was harsh, but I simply needed to tell say you are heading for trouble.

 

Here is a better version:

 

 

 

Leave your fiance right away. He deserves much better than you even if he is not a perfect guy.

 

Why don't you leave your fiance? You do not love him! You love the old man because you love external validation. Growing up without a dad was difficult and you need intense psychotherapy.

 

This very old man is flattered that you want to have sex with hi, but you probably scared him. I think he was fine with just flirting. In any event grandpa may be impotent.

 

 

Your fiance is a nice guy. You just don't like him because he has been around for a while and does not know how to validate you. Maybe he is not a player like the old guy.

[Pierre]

First, I should mention that I don't *not like* my fiance. I don't like his behaviors (namely, his anger management issues), but he's a good person, underneath it all. Beyond that, we have never been "in love."

 

May I ask why you decided to be a couple and live together for six years (and now engaged) if the two of you were never in love. I respectfully submit to you that you are probably re-writing history to justify your plans. if you are not re-writing history then things are not good either.

 

 

but I've done a lot of emotional work myself and at this point, I'm just seeing that I found someone else who makes me feel the way I want to feel--calm, heard, respected, and cared about.

 

You have a healthy appetite for external validation. Your words above are very clear. I am sorry to tell you that no man in the planet can make you happy 24/7. At some point the old guy will fail, no different than your fiance, and no different than in ALL your prior relationships. The work you need to do on yourself should not include external validation. That is a plan for another disaster.

 

 

 

 

It was as though him just being in the world made me have faith that everything was going to be okay.

 

You need to give up your quest for external validation. It only works for a short time. You need to be OK on your own and not because the old guy is in your world.

 

Please leave your fiance ASAP.

[Tenacity]

My first post to you was deleted because it was harsh. And I agree, the post was harsh, but I simply needed to tell say you are heading for trouble.

 

Here is a better version:

 

Leave your fiance right away. He deserves much better than you even if he is not a perfect guy.

 

Why don't you leave your fiance? You do not love him! You love the old man because you love external validation. Growing up without a dad was difficult and you need intense psychotherapy.

 

This very old man is flattered that you want to have sex with hi, but you probably scared him. I think he was fine with just flirting. In any event grandpa may be impotent.

 

Your fiance is a nice guy. You just don't like him because he has been around for a while and does not know how to validate you. Maybe he is not a player like the old guy.

 

I don't know Pierre... I didn't read your first post but I think harsh was quite necessary here. I agree completely.

 

OP... You say 60 is not 'old' ....no, it isn't... unless you are 30 and single. And then it is very old.

 

For you he is an old man.... you don't see it yet... Even he sees that - I got that from your posts. He even sees what you don't, and what is evident to everyone here.

 

Your latest posts on this page seem delusional. You are talking as if you have an emotional connection with this man. You don't. He clearly doesn't share what you have expressed. He has not even indicated a desire to have lunch with you without his wife present!

 

You said you just found a man who "makes you feel the way you want to feel.... calm, heard, respected, cared about". Who is that? Because where is this man who is offering all this to you? I may have missed something?

 

You don't like the responses you have received, but you should be serious about them. You have received three pages of replies from people here who have seen and done it all. There is a huge amount of experience here that you could benefit from.

[2sunny]

60 is old to me - and I'm 50!

 

I'm slim and fit - and most 60 year olds have saggy and droopy skin.

 

It feels different to even hug someone like that.

 

Your crappy behavior is clouding your judgement.

 

He knew he was stepping over the line when he was sneaky about the phone number!

 

When there's nothing to hide - people don't hide anything!

 

Yet, his sneaky moves tells me he's done this before. Maybe hats what made all the other family members disown him...

 

Either way - give your fiancée' a change to have a decent life - leave him...alone!