M30USA Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 (edited) Swing low, sweet chariot Coming for to carry me home, Swing low, sweet chariot, Coming for to carry me home. I looked over Jordan, and what did I see Coming for to carry me home? A band of angels coming after me, Coming for to carry me home. This is an interesting song. The reason I bring it up is that traditional American blacks were VERY knowledgeable about Scripture. In fact, when George Washington was asked who was most responsible for the victory of the Revolution, he named only ministers--several of which were black. They obviously knew their theology. That being the case, the things I find most interesting about this song are: 1) The chariot is told to "swing low". This implies that it's either flying around in the sky OR that it's merely symbolic entirely. Only two choices. 2) The mention of a "band of angels" in line 7 above makes a direct correlation between the "chariot" and these angels. 3) The slaves did NOT consider, at least in this case, the chariot to be demonic or cult-related. Rather, they actually looked to it for their deliverance: Comin' for to carry me home. (Reference the "chariot" which took Elijah into heaven, physically.) I understand that this song is NOT Scripture. But it does provide an extra-Biblical source which shows that the whole "chariot"/UAP subject is not necessarily a new, fringe-type idea. Additionally, there is enough Biblical support for this idea to present a strong argument. Edited November 26, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
El Brujo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 "Joshua fit de battle of Jericho, And de walls come tumblin' down". Sure, the slaves listened to all the preaching about obeying the good master... but they were more interested in the God of Moses, who gave the Egyptians hell until Pharaoh told Moses and the Hebrews to pack up and GTFO. Slavery was old when Moses was young. There were a lot of biblical references slaves used as code words: "going to the Promised Land" meant boarding a repatriation ship bound for Africa, "Judgment Day" was a slave uprising, etc. BTW I didn't learn until years later that "Follow the Drinkin' Gourd" was a reference to the handle of the Big Dipper, which points to the North Star. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) "Joshua fit de battle of Jericho, And de walls come tumblin' down". Joshua didn't knock down the walls of Jericho. Nor did anything magical. If you read the beginning of the chapter you find a very strange, out-of-place "man" standing in a field near the city, who introduced himself to Joshua as the "commander of the Lord's army". Immediately upon hearing this, Joshua fell on his face. This "man" is the one who crumbled the wall. All Joshua did was march around the city and blow his horns in an odd, ritual-like symbolism. There are 3 things to note about this: 1) The commander of the Lord's army is a clear name for Michael the Archangel, 2) Falling on one's face is a typical reaction to being in the presence of either an angel or the Lord, 3) The term "man" is very frequently used for an angel--since they do appear as men. Sure, the slaves listened to all the preaching about obeying the good master... but they were more interested in the God of Moses, who gave the Egyptians hell until Pharaoh told Moses and the Hebrews to pack up and GTFO. Slavery was old when Moses was young. There were a lot of biblical references slaves used as code words: "going to the Promised Land" meant boarding a repatriation ship bound for Africa, "Judgment Day" was a slave uprising, etc. BTW I didn't learn until years later that "Follow the Drinkin' Gourd" was a reference to the handle of the Big Dipper, which points to the North Star. I'm aware that slave songs were code. This is a popular dismissal used by nearly everyone instead of seeing truth or actual relationship to Scripture. But I will concede it definitely is the "rational" explanation. Edited November 27, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 The chariot is told to "swing low". This implies that it's either flying around in the sky OR that it's merely symbolic entirely. Only two choices. Symoblic Reference the "chariot" which took Elijah into heaven Which was also a vision/dream/symbolic image, imo. So you've dismissed John 3:13? Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Hidden message was the underground railroad. Kinda like the quilts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Pie, I guess you'd say it was "symbolic" when Elijah's comrades searched three days for his PHYSICAL BODY and never found it? Yeah, you know that symbolism can really make people vanish out of thin air, lol. Oh, and Elijah's cloak even fell to the ground because his body was gone! And it was also "symbolic" when the children came up to his associate, Elisha, and made fun of him as they said, "Go UP, BALDHEAD! Go up!" As for John 3:13, nobody ever said he went to "heaven". Edited November 27, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveaddict Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Pie, I guess you'd say it was "symbolic" when Elijah's comrades searched three days for his PHYSICAL BODY and never found it? Yeah, you know that symbolism can really make people vanish out of thin air, lol. You keep trying to reconcile your Christianity and your Scientology. Since Elijah's body was never found, was he taken bodily directly to heaven by God, or on a ufo? As for John 3:13, nobody ever said he went to "heaven". Where is he then? Would such a righteous man not be in heaven? Perhaps he is waiting on some distant planet with L. Ron Hubbard awaiting his salvation. Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As for John 3:13, nobody ever said he went to "heaven". But, you said it, here. And the bible said it, in Kings 2:11. As to the rest, pretty much re-read my reply in the original "fiery chariots" thread. It's OK though...you don't agree. No problem. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Scientology. I can't believe it! I have wondered the same thing! But he says no so I guess I was wrong. Sorry, I've taken your post out of context. Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveaddict Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 But he says no so I guess I was wrong. They will never admit it. I know several of them. The thing is, they are almost all from a Christian background. The result is a screwy mix of Christianity and ufo's and the like. Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They will never admit it. I know several of them. The thing is, they are almost all from a Christian background. The result is a screwy mix of Christianity and ufo's and the like. Talk about a screwy background! I'm Christian, Sufi and practice Zen meditation. So I guess I have no room to talk! Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveaddict Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Talk about a screwy background! I'm Christian, Sufi and practice Zen meditation. So I guess I have no room to talk! Not at all. I've no problem with anyone's religion(s). I'm the worst Christian I know. It's just when someone starts threads about ufo's and then trots it out as Christian doctrine; I want to know why. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Is the second coming also symbolic? And the rapture (or "harpazo" in Greek)? What about the appearance of Jesus (in the air ) to Saul on route to Damascus? I understand all of the doubt that you Christians have. The Bible is being taught in a new way contrary to last few centuries. My view, ironically, is the oldest and most consistent. Everybody is just misled by merely a term "UFOs" because our culture has hijacked it. Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Talk about a screwy background! I'm Christian, Sufi and practice Zen meditation. So I guess I have no room to talk! Mercy!!! I missed you!!! Where have you been? I was going to send you a message to say hi and what's up! How are you? I hope very good. Of course you have room to talk. It's cool to learn about different beliefs/worldviews and it's an interesting mix of beliefs you have. God is everyone's Judge: mine, yours, everybody's! Love you and am glad you are back! Your sis in Christ Oh, I LOVE the song "Swing Low Sweet Chariot." It's one of my all-time favorites! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Great art is almost always the product of suffering or hardship. Link to post Share on other sites
skydiveaddict Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) The Bible is being taught in a new way contrary to last few centuries. My view, ironically, is the oldest and most consistent. So then that would make you either catholic or orthodox, right? Or has Scientology been around that long too? Edited November 28, 2012 by skydiveaddict Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 OP.. only if you're talking about the Eric Clapton version. Heck yeah, Clapton does it pretty good for a whitie. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mercy!!! I missed you!!! Where have you been? I was going to send you a message to say hi and what's up! How are you? I hope very good. Of course you have room to talk. It's cool to learn about different beliefs/worldviews and it's an interesting mix of beliefs you have. God is everyone's Judge: mine, yours, everybody's! Love you and am glad you are back! Your sis in Christ Oh, I LOVE the song "Swing Low Sweet Chariot." It's one of my all-time favorites! Love you too, sweetie! xoxoxo Nothing, nothing touches my heart more than the old gospel songs. I was gifted to hear them in person as a child. What a gift! The balm of Gideon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Heck yeah, Clapton does it pretty good for a whitie. sshhhh he doesn't know he's a white boy! Link to post Share on other sites
BetheButterfly Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) OP.. only if you're talking about the Eric Clapton version. I'm going to listen to that version. Wow. My Dad would be in Heaven... is that a harmonica? He loves to play the harmonica. I love it! I still love Etta James version too though. Edited November 28, 2012 by BetheButterfly Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Speaking of the Elijah chariot... If you look at Jewish history you will find that one reason why Jewish people didn't accept Christ's first coming is because they believed (correctly) that Jesus' arrival would be preceded by Elijah coming down from the sky in the same manner he left. NOTE: Someone will say that John the Baptist was Elijah, but do your homework. Paul said that John the Baptist came "in the spirit and power of Elijah". Thus same concept is analogous to Jezebel, the real person, versus "the spirit of Jezebel". Yes, even Jesus referred to John the Baptist as "Elijah", but then again, Jesus also referred to Peter as "Satan"--who clearly was not Satan but acted in the spirit of Satan at that moment. Additionally, you find a strange comment by Jesus which seems to reconcile this contradiction: he said John was Elijah "who is to come". The only problem with the Jewish view is that they expected the Messiah to come in glory, not humility and death. Elijah will, however, precede Jesus when he does return in glory--just as the Jews were expecting. My point in bringing this up is that, just like the American slaves, the ancient Jews believed in the concept of these "chariots" in the sky. They didn't have a symbolic or allegorical interpretation. Edited November 28, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) It's great how you can know exactly how ancient Jews interpreted their own beliefs with such certainty. Why aren't Biblical historians and scholars lining up at your door? No surprise. You find everything funny. Simple research can show what the general prophetic views of the ancient Jewish people were. We still have writings by Jewish historians and rabbis, such as Josefus. Edited November 29, 2012 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 So, OP - would you share your opinion of Scientology with us here? From your posting history, I have an overall impression that you believe that your particular brand of fundamental Christianity is the only "truth" that really exists. But I see really clear parallels between your belief system and Scientology - more than with fundamentalism, actually. What's your stance? Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Great art is almost always the product of suffering or hardship. Not of aliens? I'm glad you acknowledge this. I was getting a little famished at your assertion that "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" is a UFO song rather than a communication that was used to help escaping slaves, as well as a spiritual call. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 So, OP - would you share your opinion of Scientology with us here? From your posting history, I have an overall impression that you believe that your particular brand of fundamental Christianity is the only "truth" that really exists. But I see really clear parallels between your belief system and Scientology - more than with fundamentalism, actually. What's your stance? I'm not a Scientilogist, for the main reason that they deny Christ was God in human flesh. However, if both my view and that of Scientology agree that there are scientific explanations for all things (even spiritual), then so be it. Why does everybody tout science all day, saying that everything is materialistic and can be explained through science, yet the second I try to apply this SAME reasoning to the miraculous events in the Bible, it's suddenly non-physical or symbolic? Link to post Share on other sites
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