At my wit's end

[Aslanbek]

I am writing this to vent and to ask for some wise advice. I am presently in what seems like the death throes of a 24-year marriage. My wife is not speaking to me and refuses to discuss the relationship. Since the marriage has begun we have been on and off feuding and fighting – usually not physical, but she has been violent with me in the past. We are in so many ways not compatible; I married her because I loved her, sure, but at the time I had not had any other relationships and was not sure I was ready to commit to marriage. I didn’t want to lose her because I feared I would not be able to find anyone else. Now, part of me would definitely like to end it, but we have children who I am very, very close to and any divorce proceeding will certainly turn nasty. As well, for financial reasons it would be all but impossible to end it cleanly. I also, deep down, would just like to stay with her and raise our children together, but there is just so much mutual hurt and anger to realistically expect that to happen. I do love her. I just don't know how to deal with all of the things that have happened.

 

I am approaching 50 years of age and am at a total loss. I am deeply hurt, depressed, angry and feel hopeless about the future. I do not believe that as of today there are any choices that are good ones. Anything I do is going to result in a horrible situation for myself and my children. Though I do not consider myself suicidal, I often do think about thinking about suicide, if you can understand what I am saying here. I don’t do it because I do not want my sons having to deal with the aftermath of that. I wouldn’t care if I didn’t have them. In fact, I sometimes fantasize about killing myself. I understand that thoughts like these are not normal, but yet I still have them. This woman has driven me insane. I don't want to live like this anymore, but I don't have anyone to talk with.

 

I have much, much more that I could write, but I guess I will wait until any comments or questions to say any more

[crazykat73]

I am sorry for what you're going through. I am approaching 40 and have been separated 2 years and afraid to move forward because of many of the fears you have (but I don't have kids), so it's a little different. I want to share something w/you - some advice and insight my therapist gave me that I hope will help you a little bit....

 

My therapist is 80 years old and she's very wise and has lived a lot of life, so it's an interesting perspective to have someone this old guide me, but I trust her more than a young counselor. She is helping me to try and get over my feelings of guilt and "failure" leaving my husband. I need to follow my own advice, but she has told me to "NOT think of the marriage as a failure", but as a chapter in my life. It also helped to hear that my therapist had 3 marriages and she doesn't consider them failures at all. Each was a tough time in her life, but they had run their course. She met her third husband when she was 50 and has been happily married for 30 years and tells me she is still honestly in love w/him. Sometimes it takes awhile to meet the right mate....it IS NOT the end of the world if it ends. There are so many other doors you have yet to open and truly be happy.

 

I would highly recommend picking up a book called "Broken Open." it was written by a woman married for 25 years with a big family who left....a great quote from the book "and the time came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom".....the book discusses how we sometime go through a "phoenix process" in our lives where we have to break down completely before we can really open up. We are all coded for mistakes that make us better people, etc. I hope these little things I've said can help you. Please pick up the book. When I was hopeless and sad, my friend had me pick it up and it's changed my thinking.

[crazykat73]

Another piece of advice given to me: write down a list of things that are in your control and items out of your control. Then write down a plan to tackle things out of your control. You'd be surprised at how much better this can make you feel. Also remember that MOST people who divorce are in the same situation you are in (kids, etc.). You have the same fears as the majority of people. Yes, things will be uncomfortable at first and downright sad, but you will come out of it. With each month I've been separated, it has been a lot of tears, but a lot of highs too.....I always say that I've had the worst/best year;) So, get your journal out and start getting control of this. And like people have told me, stop wasting time....

[GorillaTheater]

I'm 50 as well, and think that "staying for the kids" can be a reasonable choice so long as, like any other major decision, the pros and cons are carefully weighed. I've weighed those myself, and have decided to stay until I choose otherwise. Right now it sounds like the cons, at least as far as your peace of mind - or dramatic lack thereof - is concerned, outwiegh any pros. But take it from me, your state of mind can be adjusted. Right now it hinges too closely on your wife.

 

I don't know how you feel about what may sound like a bunch of mumbo jumbo, but hang with me for a bit. What you're describing sounds like it may be co-dependence on your part. Look into it. If you find it describes you, there are a myriad of methods to break free from that kind of thinking. Get and read the following books: Hang On To Your NUTS, No More Mr. Nice Guy by Glover, and Married Man Sex Life (which, contrary to what the title may suggest, is alot more about adjusting your attitude than it is a sex primer).

 

Fix what you need to with yourself. Then, you'll be in a much better, more rational place to determine what to do with your marriage.

[Sisyphus2012]

i am in the same place you are, you are by no means alone. I have no friends to talk to, and spend time confiding in my pastor and reading this board. i am 42 married 17 years so you are 8 miles further down the road than me. at 50 with my kids out of the house I think I would walk and enjoy the second half of my life.

[Sisyphus2012]

Let me also say this. My dad attempted suicide, it hurt us real bad, and he wound up being treated for depression and bipolar.

 

As much as things suck, don't do that, because although it may end your pain, it just shifts all the pain on your kids and the people living.

 

They will never heal from that, and they will have so much guilt. Dont do it. Instead of dying for a cause, decide to live for one.

[aMguilts]

Let me also say this. My dad attempted suicide, it hurt us real bad, and he wound up being treated for depression and bipolar.

 

As much as things suck, don't do that, because although it may end your pain, it just shifts all the pain on your kids and the people living.

 

They will never heal from that, and they will have so much guilt. Dont do it. Instead of dying for a cause, decide to live for one.

 

i didt think was yoiur thread SIs

 

it easy to say dont do this dont do that

As for pain, sometim es its easier to live without it than to think what you leave behind.

so dont even try with the `what you leave bhehind card`

cos you really dont know

[aMguilts]

Let me also say this. My dad attempted suicide, it hurt us real bad, and he wound up being treated for depression and bipolar.

 

As much as things suck, don't do that, because although it may end your pain, it just shifts all the pain on your kids and the people living.

 

They will never heal from that, and they will have so much guilt. Dont do it. Instead of dying for a cause, decide to live for one.

i`m sorry for your dad

he never meant to cause you pain.

maybe he just wanted to stop his?

aM

[Aslanbek]

i`m sorry for your dad

he never meant to cause you pain.

maybe he just wanted to stop his?

aM

 

That's why people kill themselves.....they hurt so badly that they will do anything to get away from the pain. Sometimes I feel like that, but I remember I have kids. If they were taken from me as happens a lot in divorce, I would strongly want to consider it.

[Sisyphus2012]

of course its easier.

 

suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

how would you feel if your child killed themself? thats how they would feel if you did it.

 

i know its blunt, but we are talking about a permanent outcome, for a time of temporary pain.

 

dont do it. trust me, being on the other end, its hurts the living alot. things will get better for you, take one day at a time.

 

listen to some spiritual music, go to church, talk to a pastor, go on vacation, go for a jog, get a dog, throw some **** away, light her stuff on fire,... whatever.

 

dont quit

[Aslanbek]

of course its easier.

 

suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

how would you feel if your child killed themself? thats how they would feel if you did it.

 

i know its blunt, but we are talking about a permanent outcome, for a time of temporary pain.

 

dont do it. trust me, being on the other end, its hurts the living alot. things will get better for you, take one day at a time.

 

listen to some spiritual music, go to church, talk to a pastor, go on vacation, go for a jog, get a dog, throw some **** away, light her stuff on fire,... whatever.

 

dont quit

 

Why do you say the problem is temporary?

 

I'd never do it. But if I knew it would hurt my wife, or at least make her feel bad for putting me through what she has (it wouldn't. She wouldn't give a damn). I'd give it a shot. Ha ha.

[worldgonewrong]

Suicide is for idiots. Think of the good times one is stealing from their children. Think of the next new real and TRUE woman you've not met yet whom you're robbing happiness/bliss from. Picture an idealized picture in your brain, an event that takes place in the future - you're making love to this woman, and you realize she's the one. She's out there, waiting for you. Think of the great music/book/art you haven't encountered yet. Think of the silly little thing that happens in life, whatever it is, that will make you laugh and glad to be alive.

I say this as someone who was once feeling suicidal years ago. I'm glad I didn't do anything foolish, depressed as I was. There's too much happiness & joy in this life to be discovered, and one has to chase it doggedly despite whatever setbacks & sorrows occur. There will always be sadness trying to block the path, but the path is also lined with extreme beauty that will send you into joyous tears if you explore and give it a chance.

[Aslanbek]

Suicide is for idiots. Think of the good times one is stealing from their children. Think of the next new real and TRUE woman you've not met yet whom you're robbing happiness/bliss from. Picture an idealized picture in your brain, an event that takes place in the future - you're making love to this woman, and you realize she's the one. She's out there, waiting for you. Think of the great music/book/art you haven't encountered yet. Think of the silly little thing that happens in life, whatever it is, that will make you laugh and glad to be alive.

I say this as someone who was once feeling suicidal years ago. I'm glad I didn't do anything foolish, depressed as I was. There's too much happiness & joy in this life to be discovered, and one has to chase it doggedly despite whatever setbacks & sorrows occur. There will always be sadness trying to block the path, but the path is also lined with extreme beauty that will send you into joyous tears if you explore and give it a chance.

 

I understand how it would hurt my kids (assuming I'd actually get the chance to raise them), but otherwise I don't see any great experiences with a wonderful woman waiting for me. I couldn't get anywhere with women before - hence the reason I married the first person who ever showed interest. I knew she was not the right one, but I was afraid that there was no such person. I still fear that I will never meet anyone after I divorce.

[MAD]

Hey you got to look at the long term and be able to get a clear view some day your kids will be parents that I'm sure ya wanna stick around for.staying in a marriage without being happy and feeling loved is a losing game that will end in wasted yr .if you are sure it will remain the same way mabe get worse get out now.don't let it waste away anymore yr get a vision of what life would be like if it looks better and is tangble then form a plan where no one gets takin advantage of go to her with it see if she is willing divorce without drama.

[Sisyphus2012]

Why do you say the problem is temporary?

 

I'd never do it. But if I knew it would hurt my wife, or at least make her feel bad for putting me through what she has (it wouldn't. She wouldn't give a damn). I'd give it a shot. Ha ha.

 

 

because the problem is temporary.

 

the problems you have are linked to your marriage. i think you need to work on yourself, make yourself better, not for her, but for you.

[Yasuandio]

Aslenbek,

 

If you had a friend that was making the sorts of comments you are about suicide, how would you advise that friend? What is the best advice you could offer?

 

The LS posters are telling you to take care of yourself. You must take care of yourself, for your children's future. There are so many stories on LS about the unique relationships divorced fathers developed with their kids even though they were force into an alternernate living situation with them. I think it might be safe to say (and I'm sure many will post on this subject), that the one-on-one intensive visitations with their children, although a technically shorter time period) ended up creating a special bond that could never have existed otherwise - on the day-to-day experiences that kid's and parents may just take for granted. Give that some thought. See what other Dad's say about this - perhaps Wrongonewrong, Debtman would care to speak out.

 

Back to how you would advise a close friend or loved one that is considering suicide or discussing the topic as you are. Wouldn't you be extremely concerned? I am always concerned when someones talks about suicide as an option - whether they are discussing a particular method they will use - or speaking causually. It indiates a loss of hope, depression, an imbalance of some kind that indicates that your mental thought processes are not functioning in a heathly manner. When this happens, a person needs help. Talking about it is the first step - it a way of reaching out. Now, what do you think about seek medical assistance? Yas

Edited November 28, 2012 by Yasuandio

[worldgonewrong]

There are so many stories on LS about the unique relationships divorced fathers developed with their kids even though they were force into an alternernate living situation with them. I think it might be safe to say (and I'm sure many will post on this subject), that the one-on-one intensive visitations with their children, although a technically shorter time period) ended up creating a special bond that could never have existed otherwise - on the day-to-day experiences that kid's and parents may just take for granted. Give that some thought. See what other Dad's say about this - perhaps Wrongonewrong, Debtman would care to speak out.

 

Thank you, Yas, for soliciting my take.

I bolded your very prescient part above.

Yas is absolutely right! In the aftermath of my separation, my bond with my kids is much, MUCH stronger. Because I am out of the unhealthy 'triangulation loop' that my STBX used to create, I feel like my kids take my direction & guidance with more attention.

Example - when we were a family together, they absorbed the bad habit of never apologizing. (They got that from the STBX.) Now? With me alone, they know - just by a disappointed look or a subtle change in the tone of my voice -that they've messed up, and they ARE apologetic. The idea is that I'm trying to teach them the basic lessons of personal accountability, something that the STBX can't grasp and therefore can't impart to the kids.

 

It sounds perverse, but I swear, you can be a better dad even in the aftermath of the marital wreckage. You might find yourself having more 'thinking room' in your head to employ better parenting techniques. You might discover that the 'thinking room' allows you to make more controlled, studied decisions about parenting, whereas before it might've been all reflexive or reactive 'in the moment'.

[karnak]

It sounds perverse, but I swear, you can be a better dad even in the aftermath of the marital wreckage. You might find yourself having more 'thinking room' in your head to employ better parenting techniques. You might discover that the 'thinking room' allows you to make more controlled, studied decisions about parenting, whereas before it might've been all reflexive or reactive 'in the moment'.

 

Very True.

[Aslanbek]

Aslenbek,

 

If you had a friend that was making the sorts of comments you are about suicide, how would you advise that friend? What is the best advice you could offer?

 

Of course I would try to comfort them and try to convince them that their life is worth living and worthwhile. But I often don't feel that way myself.

 

The LS posters are telling you to take care of yourself. You must take care of yourself, for your children's future. There are so many stories on LS about the unique relationships divorced fathers developed with their kids even though they were force into an alternernate living situation with them. I think it might be safe to say (and I'm sure many will post on this subject), that the one-on-one intensive visitations with their children, although a technically shorter time period) ended up creating a special bond that could never have existed otherwise - on the day-to-day experiences that kid's and parents may just take for granted. Give that some thought. See what other Dad's say about this - perhaps Wrongonewrong, Debtman would care to speak out.

 

Back to how you would advise a close friend or loved one that is considering suicide or discussing the topic as you are. Wouldn't you be extremely concerned? I am always concerned when someones talks about suicide as an option - whether they are discussing a particular method they will use - or speaking causually. It indiates a loss of hope, depression, an imbalance of some kind that indicates that your mental thought processes are not functioning in a heathly manner. When this happens, a person needs help. Talking about it is the first step - it a way of reaching out. Now, what do you think about seek medical assistance? Yas

 

Yes, I feel hopeless and depressed and worthless. And I know I am not healthy, mentally, physically or emotionally. I am in a bad relationship with an abusive spouse. I am looking for a counselor, but I have been in counseling since my 20s without any real, fundamental improvement.

[aMguilts]

That's why people kill themselves.....they hurt so badly that they will do anything to get away from the pain. Sometimes I feel like that, but I remember I have kids. If they were taken from me as happens a lot in divorce, I would strongly want to consider it.

 

Aslanbek

 

What country are you in?

 

Even if your kids are taken away get it in your head that you will ALWAYS be their dad. NOTHING at all can change that. NOTHING.

 

Say that over and over and over again .

Lift your chin up 45 degrees from the posistion it`s in now and smile

 

Be the best father you can to them, not one thats so easy to give up when life becomes a bit strained. Be the best role model you can for them

 

Hugs

aM

[Aslanbek]

Aslanbek

 

What country are you in?

 

Even if your kids are taken away get it in your head that you will ALWAYS be their dad. NOTHING at all can change that. NOTHING.

 

Say that over and over and over again .

Lift your chin up 45 degrees from the posistion it`s in now and smile

 

Be the best father you can to them, not one thats so easy to give up when life becomes a bit strained. Be the best role model you can for them

 

Hugs

aM

 

USA, NJ. I know lots of divorced men, and not one of them were treated fairly in the process. The only thing I have is my kids - there has been failure in every other aspect of my life - and I'm not going to take that loss very well.

 

Hugs to you too.

[standtall]

Aslen, Sisyphus2012 is giving you...good grief these names are a headache, what happened to George or Ron or something...

 

anyway he is giving you great advice..your children will suffer irreparable harm if you commit suicide..why would you want that to befall them? Suck it up for their sake even if you can't do it for yourself.

[aMguilts]

USA, NJ. I know lots of divorced men, and not one of them were treated fairly in the process. The only thing I have is my kids - there has been failure in every other aspect of my life - and I'm not going to take that loss very well.

 

Hugs to you too.

 

Aslanbek.

 

I wouldn`t even know about this forum if it wasn`t for my `failure`. if no one failed, then you would be talking to yourself right now!

Don`t see it as a loss. See it as a gain. forget the past. its just that.

 

Divorced men being treated fairly? even i would never dream of that!

It`s divorce. It`s NOT meant to be nice!

 

Smile all the way and you`ll be ok. i promise

 

aM

[superdaddy]

To the OP, and everyone else. Listen over and over again . Maybe it should be stickied, or maybe not.

 

[2sunny]

USA, NJ. I know lots of divorced men, and not one of them were treated fairly in the process. The only thing I have is my kids - there has been failure in every other aspect of my life - and I'm not going to take that loss very well.

 

Hugs to you too.

 

The relationship YOU have with your kids does not end if you divorce - in my case (M 20 years) I was capable of parenting my kids after the D the WAY I WANTED to parent them! Which is great - because NOW I don't have my exH undermining all the good things I love to share with them!

 

How old are your kids?