Do Men Want Relationships?

[guildenstern]

I've been in relationships where I cared more about having a boyfriend than who my boyfriend was. They were all train wrecks and I wound up getting burned over and over again every time. I understand feeling lonely and thinking 'I want a boyfriend' but its a sign of desparation and sadness, not a good attitude to have in life, IMO.

[tman666]

I've seen what happens to people who are in relationships "just because". They completely lose their sense of self. It's opens the door wide open for passionless or even emotionally abusive relationships because one or both parties seem to forget that they are their own person.

 

A relationship should be an asset to one's life, not an anchor or a cage.

Edited November 28, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ThaWholigan]

Ah, but speculation is the whole point of this thread. I joked in a different thread that maybe we should send all of the single-and-over-30 women to China, since they'd have a better chance of finding men to marry.

 

I was just curious about this because the books talk about it as SUCH a devastating situation, both socially and individually. I see tons of guys swearing off relationships here in America (see: dasein), so I wonder if it can really be that big of a deal.

It probably varies in reason. You will have some like Dasein who has probably encountered the worst of women in his dating life and having to be cautious about who he opens up to. But then there will be others who are somewhat asexual in nature, others who would rather stick to a casual arrangement because they aren't interested in a relationship due to lack of sexual freedom or some similar reason.

 

On the other side, there will be guys who can't get any sexual interest let alone a relationship and may be upset about this and it will be a big deal to them. Then there will be those guys who aren't interested in sex or even companionship on that level.

 

I would speculate that there will be a lot of the latter in certain concentrated areas (i.e. China), and more of the former examples in areas of greater statistic equality and finance.

[crude]

Society has always come up with a solution for an excess of men. It's called war. No big deal to take out 50 million men.

As far as being single, not all people want a roommate.

[Woggle]

I love being in my marriage but if I never met her I would probably be happy being single. I don't need to be in a relationship just for it's own sake. Also let's not act like only one gender has the never settle mentality.

[dasein]

I applaud you and anyone else who does not fall into the trap of a pre-fabricated life at the urging of a relationship partner.

 

Thanks. Just wanted to add that it's totally conceivable that women will reach the same conclusions I have more and more for similar reasons today. We are one of the first generations of people who have a relatively easy, socially accepted single lifestyle, including sex, as a realistic option due to technology and other factors. Wasn't too long ago that relationships weren't what we think of today, but the mere summary precursors to marriage necessary for -survival-. "He'll/she'll do, looks like they have good teeth and a strong back." If we asked great grandparents about their "relationship" status they would look at us as if looking at martians.

[verhrzn]

Thanks. Just wanted to add that it's totally conceivable that women will reach the same conclusions I have more and more for similar reasons today. We are one of the first generations of people who have a relatively easy, socially accepted single lifestyle, including sex, as a realistic option due to technology and other factors. Wasn't too long ago that relationships weren't what we think of today, but the mere summary precursors to marriage necessary for -survival-. "He'll/she'll do, looks like they have good teeth and a strong back." If we asked great grandparents about their "relationship" status they would look at us as if looking at martians.

 

So by this measure, excess men are not at all a big deal, aside from having lack of access to sex, because no one really cares about relationships?

 

And by your logic, that also means relationships will become much rarer as people only date the Best?

[wheream_i]

I think men do want relationships. Marriage on the other hand? Not so much.

[Lonely Ronin]

And by your logic, that also means relationships will become much rarer as people only date the Best?

 

Only date the best for them, there is no best for everyone....

[verhrzn]

Only date the best for them, there is no best for everyone....

 

Yeeeeeeah, all men want a fat, dumb, nagging, needy girl (the opposite of the description I posted earlier.) Let's not bother going there.

[ThaWholigan]

So by this measure, excess men are not at all a big deal, aside from having lack of access to sex, because no one really cares about relationships?

 

And by your logic, that also means relationships will become much rarer as people only date the Best?

Well, I guess the lack of sex is a big deal rather than a lack of relationships for a sizable portion of men, and it will be vice versa for the rest.

 

And of course in the mix are those who don't care either way.

[dasein]

No idea where you got this:

 

So by this measure, excess men are not at all a big deal, aside from having lack of access to sex, because no one really cares about relationships?

 

And by your logic, that also means relationships will become much rarer as people only date the Best?

 

from this:

 

Thanks. Just wanted to add that it's totally conceivable that women will reach the same conclusions I have more and more for similar reasons today. We are one of the first generations of people who have a relatively easy, socially accepted single lifestyle, including sex, as a realistic option due to technology and other factors. Wasn't too long ago that relationships weren't what we think of today, but the mere summary precursors to marriage necessary for -survival-. "He'll/she'll do, looks like they have good teeth and a strong back." If we asked great grandparents about their "relationship" status they would look at us as if looking at martians.

 

I never said nor implied that no one cares about relationships, nor that men who couldn't get sex are not a social issue, nor anything about people only dating the Best. Sorry if that is a udolipixieish reply, best I got without some connective tissue in the reasoning chain you believe me to be advocating.

[ThaWholigan]

Yeeeeeeah, all men want a fat, dumb, nagging, needy girl (the opposite of the description I posted earlier.) Let's not bother going there.

Essentially he's right though, there isn't a universal best, no matter how many people keep saying there is.

[verhrzn]

I never said nor implied that no one cares about relationships, nor that men who couldn't get sex are not a social issue, nor anything about people only dating the Best. Sorry if that is a udolipixieish reply, best I got without some connective tissue in the reasoning chain you believe me to be advocating.

 

Well you essentially said that there are no worthwhile women so screw relationships.... all women fall into those 2 categories, according to you. So that sounds strongly as if a relationship doesn't matter, or at least you won't get into a relationship unless you get something Better.

 

I have long suspected that most men are in relationships either because they are with the Best, or because they want sex. It sounds like if sex were possible outside relationships (legal prostitution, sex bots, etc.) relationships would be a lot rarer.

[xxoo]

Thankfully, we don't actually need to be gorgeous to be "gorgeous" to one man, in love.

[Lonely Ronin]

Essentially he's right though, there isn't a universal best, no matter how many people keep saying there is.

 

Their isn't a universal worst either. I have a friend who's wife and I would not get along in a relationship if are lives depended on it. Frankly, we would probably end up killing each other, but they work perfectly together.

[EasyHeart]

Here's my question: if a guy isn't nuts about a woman, why would he want a relationship? What is the appeal of commitment to guys?

I think men generally want relationships because they don't want to go through of looking for dates. Unless you're born ridiculously handsome and rich, it's a lot of work to find women. Having a relationship means we don't have to work at it anymore.

 

Is sex the big deciding factor? If the majority of guys could get sex easily (prostitution was legalized, sex bots invented, what have you) would most guys forget marriage altogether?

It's a big part of it, especially when we're young (ie, teens and twenties). We get married when (1) we want to have kids, (2) we succumb to social pressure (all our friends are getting married and we find ourselves socially excluded) or (3) we meet a woman and think, "Well, I'm definitely never finding anyone better than her."

 

I keep reading "Unnatural Selection" and thinking, yes, it's sad about the female fetuses being aborted, but is there really a larger impact on the world? Is it really that big a deal if a lot of men can't find women to marry?

Societies in which men significantly outnumber women are very rare (the converse is more common), and they are historically unstable. Married men have wives and kids to take care of and that tends to focus their efforts on surviving and thriving. Large populations of unmarried men generally gravitate towards the military, where they either overthrow the existing regime (if it's bad) or support it in territorial expansion (if it's good). In other words excess men almost inevitably leads to war, because society needs a way to get rid of that surplus.

 

Perhaps the question should be: if men had to settle for "lesser" women (however you qualify that; intelligence, looks, whatever), would they do so to attain a relationship?

Generally not. I think it's important for women to realize that men are not trained to value relationships in the same way that women are. From what I've seen, the important thing for women is to be dating someone (anyone!) and there is a stigma attached to single women by other women. Single men, OTH, are generally well-accepted by other men (though not, usually, their wives & GFs).

 

Another way to look at it is that a "successful" woman (in the dating/mating context) is one who is able to acquire a husband as soon as she wants to get married; a "successful" man in the same context is one who is able to avoid getting married, while still having access to ample female companionship.

 

It seems like a lot of women are told to lower their standards and "settle" in order to get married and have a relationship.... and they do it. I have yet to hear of a man who considered a relationship itself more important than who he was in the relationship with.

I think that's true, at least with respect to men. Like I said earlier, we'll settle down if and when we find a woman who we consider pretty much perfect, otherwise we prefer to keep our options open. We're looking for the perfect woman, and then the relationship follows. To most men, relationships have no value in the abstract (and are usually considered a detriment).

[verhrzn]

Do you have any idea how moronic this sounds?

 

Yes yes, we all want to sleep with a woman who has slept with a thousand other men, or sleep with something that requires batteries....

 

You have been on this forum, right? Should we take a poll about how many men would happily take a sex bot? "No more paying for dates!" "No more rejection!" RealDolls are already incredibly popular.

 

Some men prefer fat women. Some men prefer obese women.

 

I'm sort of the anxious, clingy type, and more than one man has wanted to be my Knight in Shining Armor. Other men would be annoyed.

 

So, no, not all men even objectively want the same things in a partner. And subjectively, once a guy falls in love, he'll overlook all sorts of sins (as will women).

 

You still go back to the issue of supply and demand. There are more fat, ugly, annoying women than there are men who are attracted to them, as this forum is daily proof of.

 

I have no idea why you guys have this obsession with convincing undesirable women they are somehow desirable. It is not helpful, guys.

[ThaWholigan]

Also if you're quite sure it means never experiencing a relationship then? And despite the chance that later you might learn to like her?

 

Yes. If I'm not moderately sexually/emotionally attracted to her, It's not happening. I have to already like her.

 

Gimme a break ThaW, you know this is a worthless argument. What man would want the opposite of my description in my first post? What man would want a fat, ugly, nagging, dumb woman? No one? Then it is logical to say all men want a skinny, hot, non-annoying, smart woman. Thus, men want the same thing in a partner. Why is this shocking or even up for discussion?

 

I'm not arguing with you. I didn't say that men want a fat, ugly, nagging, dumb woman, chances are they don't. I just said that there is no universal best. It's not that logical to say that all men want a skinny, hot, non-annoying, smart woman. Some might not be interested in a "smart" woman. Most would like the woman to be hot, but not every man is going to find the same woman hot. And lastly, I don't want a "skinny" woman and neither do quite a few guys. If you said non-fat, you may have been onto something.

[verhrzn]

I'm not arguing with you. I didn't say that men want a fat, ugly, nagging, dumb woman, chances are they don't. I just said that there is no universal best. It's not that logical to say that all men want a skinny, hot, non-annoying, smart woman. Some might not be interested in a "smart" woman. Most would like the woman to be hot, but not every man is going to find the same woman hot. And lastly, I don't want a "skinny" woman and neither do quite a few guys. If you said non-fat, you may have been onto something.

 

Fine. Non-fat. You really think guys want a dumb woman? And come on, countless studies have shown men are attracted to mostly the same thing... down to waist-hip ratios!

 

*Shakes head* I just will never get why people keep insisting on living in fantasy world.

[Drseussgrrl]

I live in the real world where I have lots of friends - some who are not skinny, sorta dumb, some nag and whine, some have bad credit, others can't hold a job, some have huge noses... you name it.

 

And every single one of these women I'm thinking about are in committed relationships.

[Failboy]

Actually, even a fat woman can get a relationship with a good guy who is not cheating on her, not dumb and not outright ugly. I know cause I am that guy. And I don't even "like" fat women in that way, I have normal taste in women.

 

It's just that women often only look at the top 20% of men when judging. "All other men are invisible"... you know, that kind of thing.

 

There are plenty of guys who simply can't get female affection while being single and who simply cannot find hot women who would like to be in a relationship with them.

 

You can easily get a relationship with those guys. It's just that you don't want to. You rather go on an internet forum and talk the way you do here. That is fine. Just keep in mind that you could easily have a good man, as long as you give all men a chance, not just those who have a beautiful face, a great career and an expensive car.

[dasein]

Well you essentially said that there are no worthwhile women so screw relationships.... all women fall into those 2 categories, according to you.

 

What I said was that my efforts in sincerely seeking "relationships" when I was your age and a bit younger were counterproductive, should have just tried to get laid and gone from there. Those were my mistakes, and I counsel young men against such mistakes here regularly, even repetitively. IMO and IME young men should seek sexual relationships first from women, should focus on that to the exclusion of most else early on, and then negotiate relationships as a natural consequence of their normal sexual desires and contact. I did otherwise, trying to lead with a relationship, and IMO was a mistake, got me endless abuse and mistreatment. A mistake I haven't repeated in a long time, but still a mistake.

 

It was significantly later that I found the two groups, and that is not only a product of common female vicissitudes, but also the "all of the good ones are taken" phenomenon, where the dating pool becomes a churning about affair, the same bad "prize" in the cracker jack box so to speak. I do think this is a gender issue, because women generally do seek committed relationships earlier than men, and so if men wait too long, they are prone to experience a lesser quality pool full of disturbed women with ridiculous expectations.

 

So that sounds strongly as if a relationship doesn't matter, or at least you won't get into a relationship unless you get something Better.

 

Well better than a nut or a materialista isn't that high a bar, is it? certainly not a perfect specimen, just what I would think of as a normal one. The last five, with maybe 20 others dated in the interim, were the main ones that made me decide to sit on the bench awhile, and all but one of those was over 30 and divorced. No idea how long I will sit on the bench, but as long as I get sex from time to time and am happy in the peace and quiet, I will probably stay put. Maybe we agree on that as a possible societal outcome for many people today.

 

I have long suspected that most men are in relationships either because they are with the Best, or because they want sex. It sounds like if sex were possible outside relationships (legal prostitution, sex bots, etc.) relationships would be a lot rarer.

 

I know some women I would marry instantly, trouble is they are the few, minority, happily married ones and I'm not in the homewrecking business.

[Drseussgrrl]

Come back when your personal antidotes have some scientific backing.

 

I'm not even sure what this means. Like, you want credit reports and photos of my girlfriends so you can see for yourself?

 

They're normal JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE with faults. This does not preclude them from love and relationships, as you assume it does.

[ThaWholigan]

Fine. Non-fat. You really think guys want a dumb woman? And come on, countless studies have shown men are attracted to mostly the same thing... down to waist-hip ratios!

 

*Shakes head* I just will never get why people keep insisting on living in fantasy world.

I don't live in a fantasy world, I live in the real world, where fat women have relationships even though "skinny women rule the roost". It's never going to be black-and-white.

 

Anyway, you've asked the questions and we've answered so what's the point? Men only like skinny girls and only want sex? Fine, we'll go with that. We only want skinny girls, and I don't want a relationship, just sex.