Do Men Want Relationships?

[verhrzn]

I'm not even sure what this means. Like, you want credit reports and photos of my girlfriends so you can see for yourself?

 

They're normal JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE with faults. This does not preclude them from love and relationships, as you assume it does.

 

No, I mean scientific studies as in showing my studies that suggest men like a variety of body types.

 

Because there are lots of studies showing they don't.

[Failboy]

.... So a fat woman should be in a relationship with a guy because he can't get the hot woman he wants. You claimed in another thread you're faithful, not because you value the girl, but because you can't get what you want.

 

Do you understand how deeply insulting and infuriating that is?

 

You are apparently new, so I will give you the run-down: I have given "good men" the chance after viciously pursuing them (since NO guy ever pursued me, not EVER) and they then reject me, or dump me for a better model.

 

So how bout you just **** the right off.

 

 

It's not about "good men"... even handsome, rich guys can be good and nice. It's about guys who are happy to be with you. It would be very rare to find a guy who is into model and could realistically be with them to pass on those to be with someone like you. I think that is obvious and understandable. After all, would you be with a loser if you could be with George Clooney? Didn't think so. Just keep in mind that there are a crapload of men who simply can't attract hot, slim women and are well aware of that. Many of them would be very into you, it's just that you don't want them. So basically it is your choice to be where you are now. That is all I'm saying. Never said that life is great, by the way.

[verhrzn]

I don't live in a fantasy world, I live in the real world, where fat women have relationships even though "skinny women rule the roost". It's never going to be black-and-white.

 

Anyway, you've asked the questions and we've answered so what's the point? Men only like skinny girls and only want sex? Fine, we'll go with that. We only want skinny girls, and I don't want a relationship, just sex.

 

So is the answer to avoid social collapse in Asia and Eastern Europe legalized prostitution? Sex bots? What?

[ThaWholigan]

So is the answer to avoid social collapse in Asia and Eastern Europe legalized prostitution? Sex bots? What?

They need to start conceiving more women. That would be the only solution. Either that or mass chemical castration ......

[Stephanie]

Let's keep the posts about the original topic and making your post personal rather than on topic will get you an infraction.

 

Thanks

[Zed]

I've been pondering this question while reading two books I picked up, "Unnatural Selection" and "Challenging Casanova." The first book discusses the potential issues of a world is which men significantly outnumber women (resulting in men not having marriage opportunities, increasing sex trafficking, bride kidnapping, and overall violence) and the second book discusses how 75% of men would prefer a stable romantic relationship over being a "player."

 

Now I just want to be clear: I do think men want relationships. But from my personal experiences and what I've read, it seems like men want relationships with specific kind of women. In order to want a relationship, a man must be absolutely nuts about the woman, so she must be smart, independent (but not too career-oriented), "feminine" but not naggy/needy/clingy/too passive/other-negative-"feminine"-qualities, and above all, gorgeous.

 

Obviously there aren't enough women to fit this description, since those are some high standards, and most of us are, ya know, average.

 

So in the face of demand not meeting supply, it seems a lot of guys "go their own way" and just forego commitment/relationships in favor of either celibacy or casual sex with women who aren't "enough" to date.

 

Here's my question: if a guy isn't nuts about a woman, why would he want a relationship? What is the appeal of commitment to guys?

 

Is sex the big deciding factor? If the majority of guys could get sex easily (prostitution was legalized, sex bots invented, what have you) would most guys forget marriage altogether?

 

I keep reading "Unnatural Selection" and thinking, yes, it's sad about the female fetuses being aborted, but is there really a larger impact on the world? Is it really that big a deal if a lot of men can't find women to marry?

This is an interesting question. China (1.13) and India (1.12) have the highest lopsided sex ratios in which Men outnumber women. In China for example men in rural areas aren’t looking for leftover women (women older then 30)—they want young women to have babies and to take care of chores. They are taking drastic measures such as kidnappings from other towns and foreign ‘brides’. Strongly male dominated countries also tend to reflect this gender skew and because of that there are a number of social problems that intensify such as unemployment, domestic turmoil and unrest.

 

Still I am not sure how this will affect male’s need for relationships. I would agree that access to unconventional methods of sex such as virtual based realities and further down the road, sex robots will minimize a drive for relationships because sex is available with minimal cost. However the drive to procreate may still pretty strong, thus I am not sure that technology will be able to diminish that desire to have children for men unless they have permanent vasectomies, in order continue the patrilineal line. I am just not convinced that this kind of gender skew will ever occur in technologically advanced countries unless a devastating war breaks out. In fact advanced societies tend to show the opposite skew of more females or a near balance. Japan, and U.S. are exactly the same and they are spolied for relationships.

[Pyro]

Now I just want to be clear: I do think men want relationships. But from my personal experiences and what I've read, it seems like men want relationships with specific kind of women. In order to want a relationship, a man must be absolutely nuts about the woman, so she must be smart, independent (but not too career-oriented), "feminine" but not naggy/needy/clingy/too passive/other-negative-"feminine"-qualities, and above all, gorgeous.

 

Obviously there aren't enough women to fit this description, since those are some high standards, and most of us are, ya know, average.

 

What is average to some guys will be gorgeous/absolutely nuts to others.

 

So in the face of demand not meeting supply, it seems a lot of guys "go their own way" and just forego commitment/relationships in favor of either celibacy or casual sex with women who aren't "enough" to date.

 

Here's my question: if a guy isn't nuts about a woman, why would he want a relationship? What is the appeal of commitment to guys?

 

Is sex the big deciding factor? If the majority of guys could get sex easily (prostitution was legalized, sex bots invented, what have you) would most guys forget marriage altogether?

 

I keep reading "Unnatural Selection" and thinking, yes, it's sad about the female fetuses being aborted, but is there really a larger impact on the world? Is it really that big a deal if a lot of men can't find women to marry?

 

The fear of being alone comes to mind before anything else. Having someone for sex without having to put in as much effort as it takes when going out to meet new people is another thought.

 

I say it all the time but if any guys are against marriage or at the least have any hang ups about it then don't marry.

[NoMoreJerks]

Actually, even a fat woman can get a relationship with a good guy who is not cheating on her, not dumb and not outright ugly. I know cause I am that guy. And I don't even "like" fat women in that way, I have normal taste in women.

 

It's just that women often only look at the top 20% of men when judging. "All other men are invisible"... you know, that kind of thing.

 

There are plenty of guys who simply can't get female affection while being single and who simply cannot find hot women who would like to be in a relationship with them.

 

You can easily get a relationship with those guys. It's just that you don't want to. You rather go on an internet forum and talk the way you do here. That is fine. Just keep in mind that you could easily have a good man, as long as you give all men a chance, not just those who have a beautiful face, a great career and an expensive car.

OK, I think people often stereotype women as having high standards, but time and again I see men who do just that, more so than women. I have yet to see a good-looking man with an ugly woman, but time and again I see very good-looking women with ugly (or below-average-looking men). I think it's usually women who settle for less than what they can get. And despite that, women are always stereotyped as being gold-diggers who want to find the richest, most attractive man. Really? I think in today's society it's actually in many ways the opposite that's happening.

[ThaWholigan]

OK, I think people often stereotype women as having high standards, but time and again I see men who do just that, more so than women. I have yet to see a good-looking man with an ugly woman, but time and again I see very good-looking women with ugly (or below-average-looking men). I think it's usually women who settle for less than what they can get. And despite that, women are always stereotyped as being gold-diggers who want to find the richest, most attractive man. Really? I think in today's society it's actually in many ways the opposite that's happening.

I have seen good looking men with some not-so-good looking women, but it's probably not quite as common as the opposite. Still I think people skew these things to fit their own agenda or perception when it's probably not as pronounced as they think. (note: Before anyone accuses me of stuff again, it is my opinion that it's probably not a conscious decision) Even the studies & research cannot agree .

[NoMoreJerks]

The fear of being alone comes to mind before anything else. Having someone for sex without having to put in as much effort as it takes when going out to meet new people is another thought.

Yeah, I get this feeling with a lot of men. It's kinda insulting. The funny thing is, if they're so lazy as to settle for a woman so they wouldn't have to put in more effort to get sex, chances are, they're also going to be lazy in the pseudo-relationship and eventually chase the woman away. My ex did this with me. Not once did I even get the impression that he wanted a relationship. He just wanted the benefits of it, but none of the responsibilities. Men who do it for that reason, are bound to be discovered for what they are soon enough -- and given the boot.

[verhrzn]

I have seen good looking men with some not-so-good looking women, but it's probably not quite as common as the opposite. Still I think people skew these things to fit their own agenda or perception when it's probably not as pronounced as they think. (note: Before anyone accuses me of stuff again, it is my opinion that it's probably not a conscious decision) Even the studies & research cannot agree .

 

I would dearly love to see a study that says men value unconventional appearances in women.

 

I quote this study time and again, but the OKCupid study found that men grade women on a generous curve, and yet only message the most attractive 1/3 (so 2/3 of men message 1/3 of women), while women were all over the map with guys' attractiveness (Guy A is a 5 to Woman A, but a 2 to Woman B, thus driving the average overall into the ground) but messaged men REGARDLESS of them receiving a Majority low score.

 

Please find me the male equivalent of what women did in this study.

[NoMoreJerks]

You're wrong. If you didn't have options you would jump at every chance you got, even if it's not your prefered scenario.

 

It's like the girl from My Super Sweet 16 who says she would rather die than drive a Toyota. Ofcourse, if her family files bankruptcy and loses everything she would be happy with a Toyota, but she can simply not imagine being in the situation, it's so far removed from her reality that her brain cannot handle it. Same here for people with options and thus standards being unable to imagine not having options and how that would influence their standards, so discussing more about it would be a waste of time.

I don't think so. I am 29 and until recently, I had never been in a relationship and was a virgin until a few months ago. Was I desperate to lose my virginity? Sure. Was it depressing never to have had a relationship ? Sure. Was I desperate to find a bf? Sure. But none of that meant that I lowered my standards to go out with men I wasn't attracted to. That is exactly what is depressing about it -- that I cannot bring myself to lower my standards just to have someone, because I wouldn't be true to myself, or fair to him. Which means that I will likely not find someone for a long time to come. Fair enough, though. I can deal with being on my own.

[ThaWholigan]

I would dearly love to see a study that says men value unconventional appearances in women.

 

I quote this study time and again, but the OKCupid study found that men grade women on a generous curve, and yet only message the most attractive 1/3 (so 2/3 of men message 1/3 of women), while women were all over the map with guys' attractiveness (Guy A is a 5 to Woman A, but a 2 to Woman B, thus driving the average overall into the ground) but messaged men REGARDLESS of them receiving a Majority low score.

 

Please find me the male equivalent of what women did in this study.

I won't, because I don't wish to get into a debate about this. I'm obviously not going to change your mind and I no longer wish to do so. (If you want to call it a forfeit, that's cool)

 

I'm just putting it out there for now that it is not beneficial to always believe that all members of one sex only find the same members of the opposite sex attractive, no matter what the studies are saying. It's your prerogative IMO. I see too many variations in my own life to call a 100% on anything regarding attraction, so my prerogative is that it is far from black and white. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe I'm the true outlier because I think that way, but it's still beneficial for me because I have nothing to complain about.

[Revolver]

With the right woman absolutely. I just don't believe in dating someone I sorta kinda like just to be in a relationship though. In regards to the OP I will say this though, there's a very large portion of the male pop that would love to live the "player" lifestyle that is romanticized in movies,TV, music but just can't. There's a reason why dudes love guys like Barney Stinson, Michael Kelso, Wilt chamberlain, Hugh Hefner, cause they're doing what most guys wish they could do.

 

But to many having a GF(even if your not completely into her) is better then not getting any sex at all. So they'll give up on the "player" dream for something more realistic, but I guarantee you alot would trade their Girlfriends right now to play the field successfully if it was possible for them.

 

I also think this is the main reasons "nice guys" hate "bad boys". They don't give a crap about the women, they're just angry they can't Do what the "BadBoys" do and continually get away with

[verhrzn]

So would it be beneficial for American women to move to China/India/Eastern Europe (other Asian cultures like Korea and Vietnam also have skewed sex ratios, though not quite as badly)? Since China has a surplus of men, and men here in America are not interested in relationships/marriage, could that be a short-term solution?

[SJC2008]

Look around... Every Job I've had I've been in the minority that I was one of the few single ones. The trend continues as I'm one of the few single ones at my new job. Most people are in R's or married. Whatever the percentage is it's higher than the single ones. So when a woman tells me men don't want R's it tells me a few things: #1) She's screwing some guy out if her league and wonders why he won't commit. Ignoring the fact that men want easy sex and will sleep with women they won't date. #2) Her man picker is broken. #3) She has nothing to offer. #4) She's shy and has a hard time dating and men bail out... 2-4 apply to men as well.

[pbjbear]

With the right woman absolutely. I just don't believe in dating someone I sorta kinda like just to be in a relationship though. In regards to the OP I will say this though, there's a very large portion of the male pop that would love to live the "player" lifestyle that is romanticized in movies,TV, music but just can't. There's a reason why dudes love guys like Barney Stinson, Michael Kelso, Wilt chamberlain, Hugh Hefner, cause they're doing what most guys wish they could do.

 

But to many having a GF(even if your not completely into her) is better then not getting any sex at all. So they'll give up on the "player" dream for something more realistic, but I guarantee you alot would trade their Girlfriends right now to play the field successfully if it was possible for them.

 

I also think this is the main reasons "nice guys" hate "bad boys". They don't give a crap about the women, they're just angry they can't Do what the "BadBoys" do and continually get away with

 

I wish this werent true but this guy is onto something. Most guys want to be players and dont want to share themselves with just one woman. Any guy that says otherwise doesnt have the options. This realization is one of the reasons Ive become more negative and distrustful towards men. I think very few have it in them to be satisfied with one guy for a really long period of time no matter how awesome she is. And no, I havent been burned bad or dumped hard. I have had issues with dating but I have thought this before...this is an intellectual realization

[Revolver]

Look around... Every Job I've had I've been in the minority that I was one of the few single ones. The trend continues as I'm one of the few single ones at my new job. Most people are in R's or married. Whatever the percentage is it's higher than the single ones. So when a woman tells me men don't want R's it tells me a few things: #1) She's screwing some guy out if her league and wonders why he won't commit. Ignoring the fact that men want easy sex and will sleep with women they won't date. #2) Her man picker is broken. #3) She has nothing to offer. #4) She's shy and has a hard time dating and men bail out... 2-4 apply to men as well.

 

I'm not saying this is the OP(especially after reading some of her threads) but alot of the women I hear that say stuff like

 

"All these guys don't want relationships"

 

The bolded was generally true. My response to that has always been, what do you expect? These guys generally have their pick of the litter and aren't settling down with The top one percent of women, much less anyone else

[verhrzn]

Look around... Every Job I've had I've been in the minority that I was one of the few single ones. The trend continues as I'm one of the few single ones at my new job. Most people are in R's or married. Whatever the percentage is it's higher than the single ones. So when a woman tells me men don't want R's it tells me a few things: #1) She's screwing some guy out if her league and wonders why he won't commit. Ignoring the fact that men want easy sex and will sleep with women they won't date. #2) Her man picker is broken. #3) She has nothing to offer. #4) She's shy and has a hard time dating and men bail out... 2-4 apply to men as well.

 

But why is the fundamental question? Are guys only in the relationship for sex? If they could gain easy access for sex from other places, would relationships/marriage be as prevalent? Is the surplus of men in Asia REALLY a problem because there will not be enough mates, or is that an overblown conclusion born from the idea that men need relationships/mates?

[pbjbear]

 

But to many having a GF(even if your not completely into her) is better then not getting any sex at all. So they'll give up on the "player" dream for something more realistic, but I guarantee you alot would trade their Girlfriends right now to play the field successfully if it was possible for them.

 

 

If I had to give women advice when it comes to men...it would be this. One of the reasons Ive given up on relationships and use good friends for companionship. I dont see the point of being loyal and devoted to a guy who will never be satisfied with me no matter how great I am. Ive met a few smart women who have picked up that men are biologically wired this way (and women are wired to find one mate and nest) and nothing will change it except for them not having any options so they "settle"...however the rest of the female population is ignorant. I kinda wish I was still living in naiive dreamworld like I was before I figured this out.

Edited November 28, 2012 by pbjbear

[NoMoreJerks]

If I had to give women advice when it comes to men...it would be this. One of the reasons Ive given up on relationships and use good friends for companionship. I dont see the point of being loyal and devoted to a guy who will never be satisfied with me no matter how great I am. Ive met a few smart women who have picked up that men are biologically wired this way (and women are wired to find one mate and nest) and nothing will change it except for them not having any options so they "settle"...however the rest of the female population is ignorant. I kinda wish I was still living in naiive dreamworld like I was before I figured this out.

I think the whole "biologically wired" argument is a poor excuse for crappy behaviour on the part of men. Nonetheless, I agree that men behave this way in general. I think it's more cultural and related to cultural norms and expectations (and things such as the availability of porn and the fact that it's now become more acceptable for people to have one night stands, etc.), more than biology.

[Negative Nancy]

With the right woman absolutely. I just don't believe in dating someone I sorta kinda like just to be in a relationship though. In regards to the OP I will say this though, there's a very large portion of the male pop that would love to live the "player" lifestyle that is romanticized in movies,TV, music but just can't. There's a reason why dudes love guys like Barney Stinson, Michael Kelso, Wilt chamberlain, Hugh Hefner, cause they're doing what most guys wish they could do.

 

But to many having a GF(even if your not completely into her) is better then not getting any sex at all. So they'll give up on the "player" dream for something more realistic, but I guarantee you alot would trade their Girlfriends right now to play the field successfully if it was possible for them.

 

I also think this is the main reasons "nice guys" hate "bad boys". They don't give a crap about the women, they're just angry they can't Do what the "BadBoys" do and continually get away with

 

I completely agree with this. Men are only as faithful as their options, so the fundamental question is:

 

If all men had the chance to live the player lifestyle (or access to harems, or whatever) - would they still want to settle down with ONE woman?

 

In other words, is being in a relationship for companionship their NATURAL desire as much as it is for women, or do they only get in relationships for convenient, regular sex?

 

Is sex the main driving force, or do they value companionship and being loved and being committed to one person as much as women do?

 

Sadly, I think the answer is that it's mainly about sex, and if that was freely available, most men would not bother with relationships at all.

[verhrzn]

But why is the fundamental question? Are guys only in the relationship for sex? If they could gain easy access for sex from other places, would relationships/marriage be as prevalent? Is the surplus of men in Asia REALLY a problem because there will not be enough mates, or is that an overblown conclusion born from the idea that men need relationships/mates?

[ThaWholigan]

So we're back to "all men want to be players" again

 

[Negative Nancy]

If I had to give women advice when it comes to men...it would be this. One of the reasons Ive given up on relationships and use good friends for companionship. I dont see the point of being loyal and devoted to a guy who will never be satisfied with me no matter how great I am. Ive met a few smart women who have picked up that men are biologically wired this way (and women are wired to find one mate and nest) and nothing will change it except for them not having any options so they "settle"...however the rest of the female population is ignorant. I kinda wish I was still living in naiive dreamworld like I was before I figured this out.

 

I feel the exact same way and agree with Revolver that if men could trade their girlfriends for the player lifestyle, 99% of them would in a heartbeat.