Do Men Want Relationships?

[dasein]

However, we have established very few men will not take advantage of options even if they have a great wife or girlfriend.

 

Sorry, repeating the same conclusory statements in ten or so posts to a thread doesn't "establish" anything.

 

1. People may be hypergamous by nature, but that applies to women just as much as men. Many women, for example, will share top 5% men with other women provided it isn't made obvious and their nose rubbed in it. Most men generally won't share women in this way.

2. Anonymous posts on the cheating subforum here on LS run about 3:1 female to male cheaters.

3. Most importantly, we have big brains for a reason, men and women, and this invalidates most appeals to biological necessity, including the "it's in man's nature to be wayward." Our behavior is rooted in instinct in some important ways including sexual behavior, but billions of people the world over are able to countermand instinct with intellect and conscious, moral choices. Our behavior is actually more culturally conditioned than biologically all things considered. Appeals to "nature" in the case of compelling human beings to do this or that somehow are almost always wrong.

 

However, sex is at the TOP of the list and thats one of the reasons why men are only as faithful as their options.

 

Women are only as faithful as their options.

 

Now I can post this same statement ten more times, in post after post, or we can agree that both sentiments are inaccurate.

 

Several men, self included, have stated that they have sought relationships and maintained them. In my case, the lack of any sustained relationship has turned out fine for me in the long run, but my lack of one hasn't been from lack of trying in life. Personally, I have been in the situation several times in life of having too many sexual options, and have always narrowed to one. Other men can speak for themselves, but I know many similar.

[verhrzn]

I've already broke down what a real PERSON would do. Man or Woman, makes no difference.

 

I can't control my brain's ability to process information correctly. What I can do is treat people how I want to be treated, and that is with respect and dignity. As a fellow human being.

 

I don't have a shallow-hal (look it up if you need to) cloaking mechanism and lets the inner beauty shine through and outer, and even in this case, it wouldn't be nothing to look at.

 

you apparently don't even know how you wanted to be treated! You make no sense and you're contradicting what you said not even 3 posts ago. Do you want to be told you're fat or not?! Telling you that you're fat and hideous has not worked. Not telling you doesn't work. You're a level-10 on the bat-sh*t scale, is what you are.

 

apparently I can't even think you fat without you fling off the handle. Can two people not have a decent conversation and if one has the moxie to try for more, be shot down with grace and respect?!

 

Are you a recluse?

 

I am not contradicting myself, I am just not fully explaining myself.

 

I don't mind being fat. I prefer to be told, than to have a guy THINK I'm fat but not tell me. If he isn't interested, best I know from the get-go. That's partially how I ended up in those relationships that made me bitter.... the guys didn't tell me right off the bat they weren't attracted to me.

 

I do care about being fat and ugly, in that it is detrimental to my dating life. Being fat/ugly is a severe disadvantage, which makes me upset and sad.

 

I can both prefer men be honest, but then be sad that they are not interested in me.

 

Again, you admit yourself you wouldn't go home with an ugly/fat girl. So why shouldn't I be sad about that? Why shouldn't I be sad, and a little bitter, that what I am is repulsive to men? That doesn't mean I don't want to KNOW I am repulsive to men.... I prefer it, so I don't go making a fool out of myself trying for a guy that isn't interested.

 

If you see a contradiction, please, enlighten me.

[SmileFace]

No, even if you act like a doormat that still doesn't give people the right to take advantage of that. I would never treat someone below a certain standard just because they appear weak or like a "doormat". On the contrary, I treat the less fortunate even nicer and better because God knows they already have it hard enough and rarely get to hear some nice words.

 

But of course, someone like you would see them as a doormat and kick them when they're down.

Ok... Ms. Nancy, since yes that was the point of me saying that. I am happy that is what you got of that. I am obviously known as such a horrible person - let me go kick some puppies.

 

I really hate that people seem to always place the blame on everyone but themselves. V is the common person in her relationships but you really think it is the guys who are just jerks?

[verhrzn]

for you the best reason would be that when you learn to pick out who the decent human beings are, you wont get used. You will get turned down in a non abrasive, non mental scaring way. Secondly while you might not get a bf, you would at least gain some decent male friends. I think those to things alone would be of a great benefit to you.

 

So I'd still get rejected, I'd just get rejected in a less honest way? And I'd have more friends.... honestly, a lack of male friends is not currently an issue. I seem to have ONLY male friends; I am the shoulder they cry on when they can't find any hot girls to date.

[Negative Nancy]

V is the common person in her relationships but you really think it is the guys who are just jerks?

 

Of course, because did you not read that all of those men dumped her for someone else or cheated on her? What exactly did she do to deserve that?

[pbjbear]

Sorry but if you're a relationship person, at the end of the day none of that is ever going to be as satisfying as being in a good relationship.

 

I guess I can see that. But I used to be that type and I no longer am. Once I started doing these things, I realized it. Give it a try. Friendships I would say is the most important thing on the list. Women with a strong cohesive friendship group are less focused on love.

[SmileFace]

Of course, because did you not read that all of those men dumped her for someone else or cheated on her? What exactly did she do to deserve that?

Did I once say that these guys were right? However don't you think that her self hating mentality is a problem? You don't have to agree but please stop trying to make me think any different. I didn't ask her to agree or take my advice -- I was just voicing my opinion.

[verhrzn]

Ok... Ms. Nancy, since yes that was the point of me saying that. I am happy that is what you got of that. I am obviously known as such a horrible person - let me go kick some puppies.

 

I really hate that people seem to always place the blame on everyone but themselves. V is the common person in her relationships but you really think it is the guys who are just jerks?

 

I have never claimed these guys WERE jerks. I have never claimed I'm NOT the problem. I AM.... because I'm ugly and not good enough to date. I have said this over and over. I am confused how people think I don't take personal responsibility, when I am CONSTANTLY saying these relationships are my fault. My fault for dating "nice" guys, my fault for bothering to date at all while Fat and Ugly.

 

If I could go back in time and give younger self advice, it would absolutely be "Don't even bother with men until you get some plastic surgery and some talent."

 

I have always acknowledged that the problem is that I am unattractive, and don't have enough of a personality to make up for it. I have no talent, no interesting hobbies, no extraordinary traits... I am average to the extreme, which is only an issue because I need something to adjust for my looks. Without that adjustment, I am worthless.

[pbjbear]

Scientific studies have shown women take advantage of their options less than men. Women are biologically wired to find a mate, have children and nest with them. Some women do use options, but not all. Very few men dont.

 

Seriously, cannot think of a single example in the US where if a woman lands a dream guy that fulfills her emotionally and sexually, she constantly lands other men. It might happen sure, but far less than men in that situation

[pbjbear]

 

I have always acknowledged that the problem is that I am unattractive, and don't have enough of a personality to make up for it. I have no talent, no interesting hobbies, no extraordinary traits... I am average to the extreme, which is only an issue because I need something to adjust for my looks. Without that adjustment, I am worthless.

 

You can change V. Take time to work on your fitness. It is good for your health too. I wish I did regular cardio and weights much earlier than I started and I could give you so much info on how it helps you.

 

You can work on your personality- read self help books on it.

 

You can develop hobbies at any age. It gives you something to talk about with other people

[SmileFace]

I have never claimed these guys WERE jerks. I have never claimed I'm NOT the problem. I AM.... because I'm ugly and not good enough to date. I have said this over and over. I am confused how people think I don't take personal responsibility, when I am CONSTANTLY saying these relationships are my fault. My fault for dating "nice" guys, my fault for bothering to date at all while Fat and Ugly.

 

If I could go back in time and give younger self advice, it would absolutely be "Don't even bother with men until you get some plastic surgery and some talent."

 

I have always acknowledged that the problem is that I am unattractive, and don't have enough of a personality to make up for it. I have no talent, no interesting hobbies, no extraordinary traits... I am average to the extreme, which is only an issue because I need something to adjust for my looks. Without that adjustment, I am worthless.

The problem is that you are insecure and have always been. Until you get to root and fix that - nothing will change. You personality only reflects you negative persona of your self image and that needs to change.

 

And I know you didn't say they were jerks since obviously think everything thing is you looks I was talking to Nancy.

 

No you need to go back and you still have the chance to tell your self to love yourself. You could go under the knife tomorrow but I am pretty sure that wouldn't change your luck once guys get to know you - being happy isn't about being a pretty face.... learn that please.

[aussietigerwolf]

If I stayed single, would you people FINALLY just admit I'm ugly and give me some goddamn sympathy?

 

Yes, your ugly. Here's a hug , happy now?

[Woggle]

Scientific studies have shown women take advantage of their options less than men. Women are biologically wired to find a mate, have children and nest with them. Some women do use options, but not all. Very few men dont.

 

Seriously, cannot think of a single example in the US where if a woman lands a dream guy that fulfills her emotionally and sexually, she constantly lands other men. It might happen sure, but far less than men in that situation

 

Just look at the divorce forums on this board. No offense but you really do have warped view of relationships that is nowhere close to reality.

 

I asked the question previously if men are not capable of true love then why do you hear some men literally taking a bullet for their women?

[SmileFace]

The problem is that you are insecure and have always been. Until you get to root and fix that - nothing will change. You personality only reflects you negative persona of your self image and that needs to change.

 

And I know you didn't say they were jerks since obviously think everything thing is you looks I was talking to Nancy.

 

No you need to go back and you still have the chance to tell your self to love yourself. You could go under the knife tomorrow but I am pretty sure that wouldn't change your luck once guys get to know you - being happy isn't about being a pretty face.... learn that please.

 

 

You have no interests, no hobbies, no self worth, and insecure -- being "ugly" is your last problem.

[dasein]

Scientific studies have shown women take advantage of their options less than men. Women are biologically wired to find a mate, have children and nest with them. Some women do use options, but not all. Very few men dont.

 

Seriously, cannot think of a single example in the US where if a woman lands a dream guy that fulfills her emotionally and sexually, she constantly lands other men. It might happen sure, but far less than men in that situation

 

You are wrong, biological "wiring" arguments hold no water, but do keep posting the same thing over and over. Maybe wrong will become right via repetition. It apparently works in advertising.

[verhrzn]

I disagree...

I can clean up after myself, and I wouldn't work a job I have to constantly bitch about. I also wouldn't want to bitch about it over a phone, if I did. She's saying, cause I don't even think she did, these things because that's what she thinks a man wants/needs.

 

.... No, I did those things. I thought that's how a girlfriend acted. A good girl didn't demand, she didn't nag, she did nice things without expectations. Heck, I even arranged a threesome with a pro dom because my ex kept saying how he wanted to have one, but was turning down all the girls I picked out on OKCupid ("Too old." "Too fat." "She's in an open relationship, she needs to be single.")

 

You can change V. Take time to work on your fitness. It is good for your health too. I wish I did regular cardio and weights much earlier than I started and I could give you so much info on how it helps you.

 

You can work on your personality- read self help books on it.

 

You can develop hobbies at any age. It gives you something to talk about with other people

 

Ugh my shelf is nothing but self-help books. "It's Not Him, It's You." "Why You're Not Married Yet." "The Body Shape Bible." "7 Habits of Highly Effective People."

 

None of em have proven very helpful. I am just not likable. And I HAVE hobbies... they're just boring ones. And I suck at them. For example, I tried doing NaNoWriMo, got 30,000 words in and then realized I am awful, **** writer.

[Woggle]

Verhzn I have seen your pic and you are far from unattractive. If you learned not to have such a twisted view of relationships and not be so anti-male you would attract a better quality of men. Look at the women who actually do have quality men and almost none of them are man haters.

[Lonely Ronin]

So I'd still get rejected, I'd just get rejected in a less honest way?

 

No you would get rejected, in a way that doesn't involve obliterating your mental health, self worth and making you more bitter. You would also be able to figure out who would be receptive of your advances/interest. You are doing the exact same thing some of the men hear do, you are essentially making blind cold approaches. What happens to them every time they get turned down? The become more bitter, and hateful of women.

[verhrzn]

You have no interests, no hobbies, no self worth, and insecure -- being "ugly" is your last problem.

 

Not really. Plenty of beautiful women have no interests or hobbies, and find their worth on their looks. Some women have no looks, and thus find their self-worth on their intelligence or their humor.

 

When you have neither.... neither looks OR personality... what exactly should you find your worth in? And when it comes to dating especially, when looks are so highly prized by men, why shouldn't looks take prominence? Are you really going to argue our society isn't focused on beauty, and judges a woman on that first and foremost?

[SmileFace]

Not really. Plenty of beautiful women have no interests or hobbies, and find their worth on their looks. Some women have no looks, and thus find their self-worth on their intelligence or their humor.

 

When you have neither.... neither looks OR personality... what exactly should you find your worth in? And when it comes to dating especially, when looks are so highly prized by men, why shouldn't looks take prominence? Are you really going to argue our society isn't focused on beauty, and judges a woman on that first and foremost?

Whatever V.... good luck with life, bye.

[verhrzn]

No you would get rejected, in a way that doesn't involve obliterating your mental health, self worth and making you more bitter. You would also be able to figure out who would be receptive of your advances/interest. You are doing the exact same thing some of the men hear do, you are essentially making blind cold approaches. What happens to them every time they get turned down? The become more bitter, and hateful of women.

 

But I need to know my league, and I need to know my place. Isn't that what posters are always telling women, that the reason they're single is because they're unrealistic about their options? How can I possibly know when I'm going outside my options until a guy tells me why I'm being rejected?

 

How can I possibly improve or change if I'm not told why he's not interested?

 

Also.... no guys are receptive. Let's just get that out of the way immediately. So that argument for the people-picker isn't very helpful...

[pbjbear]

V you dont have to be fat or have uninteresting hobbies or have a bad personality.

 

Even with all those things being fixed- it doesnt fix the selfish nature of men. But the things I described you can fix.

 

Again I will state, you can be happy without a man. Any woman who thinks she cant needs to work on herself. Plenty of men do it and women can do it too. If you took a break from men and focused your energy elsewhere, youd become less angry too.

 

I think most men are not relationship material but I still enjoy life and people say Im pleasant so I guess I do something right.

[verhrzn]

You know you're fat. Everyone else who isn't blind knows it too, I promise you. You know you're not pleasant looking. Again, everyone who isn't blind knows it too.. The only thing a person in your situation has is personality, and any mentally/emotionally intelligent person you hold a conversation will see the spite and anger in you TOO!

 

Hell, I know obese people are angry in general, it's part of their vice. I say that growing up with my brother, a 35 yr old who weigh well over 400lbs. someone who has never fully went through pubrty because of it. Gets discriminated against in every fashion of life. He's angry, and it leads to another go around in his vicious circle.

 

You're fat, but for some reason you need to hear it from the outside source, and are questioning me questioning you-which is your rhetoric. talk to me when you have a real question. Or actually want to heed some decent advice.

 

Ooookay, so we both agree I'm fat.... so why is it bad that I'm bitter? Why is it wrong that I'm bitter that men aren't attracted to me? Am I supposed to enjoy the fact that men aren't attracted to me?

 

I am really confused what the heck you are trying to say. You seem to just be confirming that yep, being fat and ugly is obvious and sucks, and so I'm just gonna get any dates. What decent advice exactly am I not heeding?

[Lonely Ronin]

How can I possibly improve or change if I'm not told why he's not interested?

 

V this is basic stuff for me, I know what I'm talking about. If you flirt, or chat a guy up, and he doesn't respond positively he isn't interested. If he's dismissive of your points of view he isn't interested. If he talks about other women he isn't interested. In short you read between the lines.

 

 

Also.... no guys are receptive. Let's just get that out of the way immediately. So that argument for the people-picker isn't very helpful...

So I take it you have interacted with ever single guy withing 50 miles of you then?

[verhrzn]

Haven't you been told that you're...

1. fat.

2. ugly.

3. have polished turd for a personality by everyone here on the board.

 

You're going in circles, you don't want to hear anything.

 

She keeps doing to this every new person concerned and trying to help.

the veyr definition of a troll. It's just unfortunate she resembles one, but then again, who knows, cause she won't post a photo.

 

I've posted a photo A LOT. If you do even just some slight digging, you'll find the numerous photos I've posted.

 

And what exactly am I not hearing?? I am hearing quite clearly that I am fat, ugly, and unpleasant. What exactly are you trying to prove??

 

And by the ****ing way.... this wasn't even the goddamn point of the thread. Once again, a thread has veered wildly off topic because posters just cannot help themselves pointing out all of my flaws, and then yelling at me for having low self-esteem.