I'm devastated.........

[WhatsTheAnswer]

I guess OP is gone.

 

I suspect he was looking for a sugar coated point of view that supported his position.

 

OP said in his initial post that he was upset because the wife dedicated too much time to the children and not to him. This means OP is a highly insecure man and needs external validation. He also showed no empathy for the wife (or his children) during the affair. So he is a textbook case! And that is why he cannot accept negative remarks.

 

I have accepted many negative remarks here. I have plenty of empathy for my wife. Its impossible to state every possible bit of what I think or feel or else my posts would be miles long. So no you don't know every part of my life or what I think or feel. Everyone is quick put everyone in a box "you are this" or "you are that" "you are typical" so on and so on. I felt extremely bad about what I was doing but just let myself get used to living the double life. Is that any different than any other story of an affair on this site?

 

I have made an appointment with a Counselor for next week and plan to talk to him and tell my wife after I can think more clearly.

 

I'm all for criticism but I don't think railing on me because you have been a BS spouse in the past and you can take your ire out on me is constructive criticism. I think everyone here has made clear what they think of me, fine. Now how about we stick to constructive criticism going forward. I appreciate everyone here who has been giving me building blocks to heal.

 

As far as the comment about me being insecure I don't feel it had anything to do with that. It is a fact that at that time in our marriage we became distant because she focused solely on our children and not enough on our marriage. We still needed to have alone time, go out talk about adult things still be a couple with whatever time we could. Any MC would whole heartily agree with that assessment. I don't feel that has anything to be insecure, its things you should make efforts to do in the marriage. My W admitted she was not doing those things and didn't care about making an effort at that time in our relationship. I harbored resentment about it for a long time. Be it right or wrong it was what I felt a the time.

[BrokenPrincess]

So did your wife actually cheat on you first, or you just suspected she cheated? I'm still confused at the casual mention of that major information in the middle of this thread.

[WhatsTheAnswer]

I agree that compassion should be granted to those who are struggling and in need of advice.

 

Compassion from others is best achieved when someone owns their mistakes instead of blame shifting and double talking.

 

For years this man has claimed to love the OW, and then when she asks for a true commitment he describes her as baggage, and in the same breath blames his wife for the reasons he cheated in the first place.

 

The moment his pity party is interrupted he cries foul rather than owning his role in the mess he created. He assumed he'd get cheap compassion rather than having to look in his own mirror.

 

He regards the best advice from those that responded is from a poster who told him to dump the OW and not give his wife the truth. And yet he wants compassion, and is insulted by not being coddled by the other posters.

 

 

I explained that I used the term baggage as I was trying to concentrate on negative aspects of the AP so I can break the bond I still feel for her. A counselor gave me that exact advice. If you can keep telling your self the negatives, it will help running to a relationship that was built on deceit in the first place, and probably wouldn't last because 90% of those situations. I am still caught up in feelings of loss from my AP. I need to break that bond in anyway I can. It was not meant as direct put down to the AP. In fact if I went strictly on my emotions I would run to her right now. Everything I read says its the absolute wrong thing to do. Everything I read says you must break the bond first through NC and focusing on the negatives of what everyday life might be with that person over and over.

[2sunny]

Why don't you do counseling?

 

You need to find out who the real you is.

 

You also need to get honest with your W - because without that - there's no basis for the M.

 

Once you get to honesty - the M can have a starting point of reality...after everything is disclosed.

 

The reality of the pain you've caused by how you've participated needs to come out - then, and only then - can the M stand a chance of healing and moving forward in a healthy direction... Until then, the M is built on lies and deception with you placing your energy, love and focus outside your M.

 

Do you intend to repair the damage you've caused or to walk away?

[Mr. Lucky]

I have accepted many negative remarks here. I have plenty of empathy for my wife. Its impossible to state every possible bit of what I think or feel or else my posts would be miles long. So no you don't know every part of my life or what I think or feel. Everyone is quick put everyone in a box "you are this" or "you are that" "you are typical" so on and so on. I felt extremely bad about what I was doing but just let myself get used to living the double life. Is that any different than any other story of an affair on this site?

 

I have made an appointment with a Counselor for next week and plan to talk to him and tell my wife after I can think more clearly.

 

I'm all for criticism but I don't think railing on me because you have been a BS spouse in the past and you can take your ire out on me is constructive criticism. I think everyone here has made clear what they think of me, fine. Now how about we stick to constructive criticism going forward. I appreciate everyone here who has been giving me building blocks to heal.

 

As far as the comment about me being insecure I don't feel it had anything to do with that. It is a fact that at that time in our marriage we became distant because she focused solely on our children and not enough on our marriage. We still needed to have alone time, go out talk about adult things still be a couple with whatever time we could. Any MC would whole heartily agree with that assessment. I don't feel that has anything to be insecure, its things you should make efforts to do in the marriage. My W admitted she was not doing those things and didn't care about making an effort at that time in our relationship. I harbored resentment about it for a long time. Be it right or wrong it was what I felt a the time.

WhatsTheAnswer, believe it or not, there are cheating spouses that come on here and get a different reception than you feel you've gotten. But the line in the sand is usually this - they don't throw everyone else under the bus in their initial post with quite the same enthusiasm you did:

 

Your wife = "robo mom. The minute we had kids she ignored me"

 

Your affair partner = "baggage ... with no money and now has no job, three kids and ex husband who has been stalking her to see who she is dating."

 

Her husband = "cold and verbally abusive to her. I met him a few times and I could see what she meant. He was very anti social"

 

Your kids = Only mentioned in passing without any regard for what you're doing (or planning to do) will mean for them.

 

You've posted some spin since then in an effort to re-formulate your incredibly self-centered view of your world. However, much like first impressions, I tend to think that first posts most accurately portray the truth. And that truth is what earned you the responses received...

 

Mr. Lucky

[WhatsTheAnswer]

Why don't you do counseling?

 

You need to find out who the real you is.

 

You also need to get honest with your W - because without that - there's no basis for the M.

 

Once you get to honesty - the M can have a starting point of reality...after everything is disclosed.

 

The reality of the pain you've caused by how you've participated needs to come out - then, and only then - can the M stand a chance of healing and moving forward in a healthy direction... Until then, the M is built on lies and deception with you placing your energy, love and focus outside your M.

 

Do you intend to repair the damage you've caused or to walk away?

 

I have an appointment next week.

[Furious]

Whatstheanswer

 

The first step to take, is to stop blaming everyone for your choices.

 

Own your own mistakes, and dig for why YOU ended up where you are today.

 

You're at a cross road, decide where you want to be and then work hard at fixing what is broken.

 

Be sincere, and be the man you have always wanted to be.

 

Look at this as a second chance to make the second half of your life the best part of your life.

[2sunny]

What do you intend to accomplish in counseling?

[veryhappy]

I agree with everybody so far. Good advice given. I also want to tell the op that it makes no sense to drag your W into mc if you decide to stay together. Resolve your issues first in IC. It's very unfair to hide and lie and then expect from your W to work on the m together with you. She doesn't know the facts. How can she go to mc if she's being deceived? What good would that do? It's nothing but a waste of money, because the m would still be built on lies even during/after mc. What are you going to tell the counselor when you're sitting on their couch with your spouse? "WE have problems" ?? It won't work that way. It's unfair. It's almost worse than what you're doing to her now. For her it would be like working on something and putting an effort into something and spending money on something that she isn't even aware of. How would that even work? It's not going to. She's not clued in = She can't work on anything. Don't waste her time and money just to buy a cover up through MC. Because that's a it would be. More deceit, more lies, cover up, cop out.*

 

In my case, exMM turned to be a cliche of a MM, so I don't see why his experience wouldn't apply to others. He went to MC (no dday), and one and a half months after starting he switched from wanting to be with me for absolutely sure to having clarity and being commited to his marriage for life.

 

It ultimately comes down to addressing the issues in a M. If it was a one time A, and the BS is commited to make it work, it can work without confessing. Why not spare at least one side( the BS) the pain?

[veryhappy]

I explained that I used the term baggage as I was trying to concentrate on negative aspects of the AP so I can break the bond I still feel for her. A counselor gave me that exact advice. If you can keep telling your self the negatives, it will help running to a relationship that was built on deceit in the first place, and probably wouldn't last because 90% of those situations. I am still caught up in feelings of loss from my AP. I need to break that bond in anyway I can. It was not meant as direct put down to the AP. In fact if I went strictly on my emotions I would run to her right now. Everything I read says its the absolute wrong thing to do. Everything I read says you must break the bond first through NC and focusing on the negatives of what everyday life might be with that person over and over.

 

Can you get a little bit why you want to stay with your wife?

 

There are good Rs that start as As. The right thing to do is figure out if you are done with your M or not.

 

You seem to force yourself into believing that things wouldn't work out with your AP. If you were deceitful in your A, it was your choice. Why did you do it? Did you really need to deceive the AP?

 

Instead of convincing yourself about how bad the OW is, why don't you figure out your M? If you focus on the M you seem to want to choose, thinking of the AP will naturally wane.

 

Edit for the post above: "..., and the WS is commited to make it work".

Edited November 30, 2012 by cutedragon

[turnera]

There are good Rs that start as As. The right thing to do is figure out if you are done with your M or not.

Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.

[Decorative]

Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.

 

I was just going to say that. LOL!

 

This is another interesting take on the interplay of affairs and the psychology of why for the partners that explains why even "romantic" affairs usually cannot stand up to reality testing, because of how and why they originate :

 

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

Edited November 30, 2012 by Decorative

[Tara247]

OP, what stands out about your post is that you "say" you love your OW but yet, all of a suddent that she's now free, you don't want to be bothered with helping her raise her three kids. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like love to me. It sounds like selfishness.

[Snowflower]

 

I'm all for criticism but I don't think railing on me because you have been a BS spouse in the past and you can take your ire out on me is constructive criticism.

 

Why is misplaced anger like this always automatically assumed? I take my ire out on my H, when necessary, not on some anonymous internet poster.

 

Give us some credit here. Most of the responses here have been trying to get you to see things differently.

 

As far as the comment about me being insecure I don't feel it had anything to do with that. It is a fact that at that time in our marriage we became distant because she focused solely on our children and not enough on our marriage. We still needed to have alone time, go out talk about adult things still be a couple with whatever time we could. Any MC would whole heartily agree with that assessment. I don't feel that has anything to be insecure, its things you should make efforts to do in the marriage. My W admitted she was not doing those things and didn't care about making an effort at that time in our relationship. I harbored resentment about it for a long time. Be it right or wrong it was what I felt a the time.

 

Okay, so your marriage wasn't as fulfilling to you because your wife was focused on your kids. This is very valid...it happens a lot unfortunately.

 

Did you ever talk to her about how you were feeling before you started with the OW? Did you try to make things better within your marriage? Date nights, alone time? Did you try to initiate those things? Or was it all on your wife to do that, and since she didn't...well, you know what happened...?

[Spark1111]

I was just going to say that. LOL!

 

This is another interesting take on the interplay of affairs and the psychology of why for the partners that explains why even "romantic" affairs usually cannot stand up to reality testing, because of how and why they originate :

 

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

 

Love Pittman!

 

This was one of the best articles and book I ever read on infidelity!

[OpenBook]

I don't know what I want that is the issue.

 

And you're the only one in the end who can decide that. We can't help you with that... although I'm sure people will try. When you don't define yourself, the world will always try to do it for you.

 

I'm still dealing with the end of the affair and what is the right thing to do overall.

 

What a person wants, and what is the right thing to do, are often two totally separate things. Welcome to the human condition. It's what keeps psychologists (not to mention pharmaceutical companies) in business.

 

I don't feel I can know what I want until I can think straight.

 

And I think your instincts are right on target with this. It's never a good idea to make major decisions when one's emotions are all over the place.

 

I hope you get a good counselor who can help you work through all these issues - the loss of your OW, the state of your M, the well-being of your kids. I wish you peace and a good outcome.

[Sauron]

I have accepted many negative remarks here. I have plenty of empathy for my wife. Its impossible to state every possible bit of what I think or feel or else my posts would be miles long. So no you don't know every part of my life or what I think or feel. Everyone is quick put everyone in a box "you are this" or "you are that" "you are typical" so on and so on. I felt extremely bad about what I was doing but just let myself get used to living the double life. Is that any different than any other story of an affair on this site?

 

I have made an appointment with a Counselor for next week and plan to talk to him and tell my wife after I can think more clearly.

 

I'm all for criticism but I don't think railing on me because you have been a BS spouse in the past and you can take your ire out on me is constructive criticism. I think everyone here has made clear what they think of me, fine. Now how about we stick to constructive criticism going forward. I appreciate everyone here who has been giving me building blocks to heal.

 

As far as the comment about me being insecure I don't feel it had anything to do with that. It is a fact that at that time in our marriage we became distant because she focused solely on our children and not enough on our marriage. We still needed to have alone time, go out talk about adult things still be a couple with whatever time we could. Any MC would whole heartily agree with that assessment. I don't feel that has anything to be insecure, its things you should make efforts to do in the marriage. My W admitted she was not doing those things and didn't care about making an effort at that time in our relationship. I harbored resentment about it for a long time. Be it right or wrong it was what I felt a the time.

 

 

Anyway, at the end of the day as a man, you owe it to your kids to get them into adulthood. If you are not happy at home, man up and deal with it for your kids. If your OW surfaces, you can have realtionship just like you have been having. If she is out, you can find another one. Also, you should start having sex with your wife again. She has needs and you need to meet them. Make her happy and contented so you can live the life you want and find what you need. Then when your kids are out of HS ditch her if you want, of course you will be giving her half of everything. Also, DO NOT CONFESS. This bunch here thinks you have to splatter it all out in the open and tell wifey all. She is busy with the kids, let her be and make her feel happy and meet her needs. You will be doing what men throughout history have done. Nothing is uniquie or special about your situation. Good luck to you.

Edited December 2, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[frozensprouts]

what is so damned hard about being honest and finding out from your wife what She wants? She not a child, she's a grown, adult woman who knows he own mind, knows what her needs are and knows what she can/can't live with...

 

you have two choices...you can lie and live your life as a dishonest coward ( I know that sounds harsh, but that's what it boils down to, with a huge dash of selfishness thrown in for good measure)

 

or

 

you can be honest with your wife and work together to try and find a way ahead. iF for no other reason, do it for your children. What life lesson are you teaching them if you continue to live a dishonest life...and don't kid yourself...children aren't idiots- they know when something is going on

 

besides your other woman is a real wild card here...who's to say she won't spill the beans to your wife anyway...just imagine what that will be like?

 

think of it this way...look at all the responses on here, and find which ones portray the person who you would most like to be...think about it, and figure out what you need to do to make yourself that kind of person...an remember- the only thing holding you back from being the kind of person you really want to be is yourself and your fear...let go of the fear, and allow yourself to find the strength and the courage that it will take to be the kind of man who your kids will be proud of ( and the kind of dad your kids will be proud of is the kind of dad who doesn't hurt their mom)

[Oberfeldwebel]

Dude you logged into a forum of folks that are primarily providing advise to those that have been betrayed and you didn't expect to get a little grief...."cmon man". That being said my advise to you is this....I don't think you don't know what to do, you are looking for an easier answer. The problem is there isn't one. You have been lying to three people and the only way out of this is to put your big boy pants on and start telling the truth.

 

Firstly you have been lying to your wife. If you have issue with her, address that with her. If her response is not acceptable to you, then you have to decide what to do openly and honestly.

 

Secondly you are lying to the other woman. You have led her to believe that she should get rid of this other man and now that she has left him, she has 3 kids, no job, a stalker and a man she trusted that is twisting in the wind. Before you start to protest, understand that you have been her confidant for 5 years, under very stressful conditions. You may not have said this directly or that you would replace him, but you have to know that SHE felt that you wanted to be with her. She had no self confidence, you built her up to be someone that a good man would want. Why wouldn't you leave and unhappy marriage to be with her (from her point of view).

 

Lastly you have to quit lying to yourself. You all but took credit for helping the OW out of an abusive relationship. That was somewhat noble, up to the point that you took your britches off. You can't claim nobility while you are playing hide the porpoise with her. You need to own up what has happened with your wife and you two need to make a decision on how to move forward. Depending on the outcome of that decision, you need to talk to the OW and either move forward or terminate.

 

While you have received a little grief, I have seen much worse on here. You probably aren't a bad guy, but you have made some bad decision. The answer is....start making better decisions.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Oberfeldwebel

[WhatsTheAnswer]

I have been in therapy for weeks now and I found a good therapist that is an expert in Cognitive Thinking. His therapy involves getting you to think rationally and to make realistic decisions. I asked his advice as to how to solve my indecision and we have worked on positive and clear thinking as well as extensive journaling. It had helped greatly but it is a battle not to spin your thoughts all over the place. Through the whole NC with the AP my thoughts were spinning out of control as to what she was thinking. What I felt. What I wanted. What I felt about my marriage. How I saw the future. Etc. We started to address the idea of telling my wife about the affair. Because there will be no resuming of the affair or leaving and my willingness to work on my marriage he advised emphatically not to tell her about it. He feels that in his years of counseling that if people want to move forward and work on their marriage and the Affair was truly an isolated case, that the "punch in the face" of an affair can block the ability to achieve long term stability. The scars of the affair will always be there lurking to destroy any building blocks.

 

After weeks of NC my AP and I have had several discussions about where our feelings lie. She mentioned she still loved me and we kept communicating here and there. She would text and then go NC again back and forth a few times. I finally met with her face to face and we talked for 8 hours straight. We were NC for weeks before that. I suspected that she might have met someone she wanted to date. She eventually confirmed that. She has since decided to give her new relationship a go and we are full NC again for good this time. She did reveal something though, that she suffers from very low self esteem probably due to the verbally abusive husband. She admitted that she is liking any man flirting with her now because of it. I guess that wouldn't have bode well for a relationship for her and I. I hope she gets counseling for it someday. Deep down there is a good woman there. I wish her well. I think if we broke NC before that point we would have been back to where we were before. That being said I still feel real and intense feelings of loss and pain over the relationship. I'm not sleeping much and despair often I will never get over missing her. I'm trying hard to think rationally and I hope I can rid myself of the drug of the love bond. One day at a time for now.

 

I have been talking to my wife more and more about the elephant in the room with regard to the deep underlying issues that we have ignored over the past 10 years. When I try to talk to her about the issues she opens up or a bit but then closes up again and pretends everything is ok. She just wants to get back to day to day life. She doesn't want to keep talking about it. I hope I can convince her to come to counseling with me. I have been trying to direct all of my energies toward her to get that love bond back. Unfortunately for now most of my passionate feelings are still stuck with my ex OW. I haven not been able to be physical as of yet with my W because of it. For now I'm hoping kissing and embraces will kindle a fire in our marriage again.

[woinlove]

Sounds like you have a bad counsellor. A good counsellor does not emphatically tell you whether to be honest or not, but brings out your feelings about yourself and the type of person you want to be. Sounds like your counsellor is bringing too much of his/her own issues into it to tell you what to do.

 

I'm not surprised "communication" is not working with your W. It is tricky to look like you want honest communication when you actually don't. You want to discuss the issues you want and not all the relevant issues and that is difficult to master and control.

 

I'd suggest finding a more impartial counsellor, but also deciding what kind of person you want to be and also what kind of M you want. Your A suggests that you do want intimacy and I don't think one can have intimacy with large, ongoing deception involved. Good luck.

[standtall]

I finally met with her face to face and we talked for 8 hours straight. We were NC for weeks before that. I suspected that she might have met someone she wanted to date. She eventually confirmed that. She has since decided to give her new relationship a go and we are full NC again for good this time.

 

I would recommend that you let your wife know that she is your second choice..it is only fair to her.

[turnera]

A marriage isn't a marriage if you aren't best friends and if you hide secrets from each other. By depriving her of this knowledge, you are abusing your wife. You are not allowing her to make her own decisions about this life she's in - for YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN (to not have an upset wife or to not lose your wife).

 

Can someone learn to grow integrity?

 

Judging by your story, I'd say no.

[2sure]

Unless OP has been going to therapy 2 or 3 times a week all of a sudden...he has had 3 visits tops and his therapist has decided for him already that he should lie to his wife for the rest of his life . Huh.

 

You know this is an anonymous forum right?

[Spark1111]

I have been in therapy for weeks now and I found a good therapist that is an expert in Cognitive Thinking. His therapy involves getting you to think rationally and to make realistic decisions. I asked his advice as to how to solve my indecision and we have worked on positive and clear thinking as well as extensive journaling. It had helped greatly but it is a battle not to spin your thoughts all over the place. Through the whole NC with the AP my thoughts were spinning out of control as to what she was thinking. What I felt. What I wanted. What I felt about my marriage. How I saw the future. Etc. We started to address the idea of telling my wife about the affair. Because there will be no resuming of the affair or leaving and my willingness to work on my marriage he advised emphatically not to tell her about it. He feels that in his years of counseling that if people want to move forward and work on their marriage and the Affair was truly an isolated case, that the "punch in the face" of an affair can block the ability to achieve long term stability. The scars of the affair will always be there lurking to destroy any building blocks.

 

After weeks of NC my AP and I have had several discussions about where our feelings lie. She mentioned she still loved me and we kept communicating here and there. She would text and then go NC again back and forth a few times. I finally met with her face to face and we talked for 8 hours straight. We were NC for weeks before that. I suspected that she might have met someone she wanted to date. She eventually confirmed that. She has since decided to give her new relationship a go and we are full NC again for good this time. She did reveal something though, that she suffers from very low self esteem probably due to the verbally abusive husband. She admitted that she is liking any man flirting with her now because of it. I guess that wouldn't have bode well for a relationship for her and I. I hope she gets counseling for it someday. Deep down there is a good woman there. I wish her well. I think if we broke NC before that point we would have been back to where we were before. That being said I still feel real and intense feelings of loss and pain over the relationship. I'm not sleeping much and despair often I will never get over missing her. I'm trying hard to think rationally and I hope I can rid myself of the drug of the love boqnd. One day at a time for now.

 

I have been talking to my wife more and more about the elephant in the room with regard to the deep underlying issues that we have ignored over the past 10 years. When I try to talk to her about the issues she opens up or a bit but then closes up again and pretends everything is ok. She just wants to get back to day to day life. She doesn't want to keep talking about it. I hope I can convince her to come to counseling with me. I have been trying to direct all of my energies toward her to get that love bond back. Unfortunately for now most of my passionate feelings are still stuck with my ex OW. I haven not been able to be physical as of yet with my W because of it. For now I'm hoping kissing and embraces will kindle a fire in our marriage again.

 

WAIT! It's been a few weeks of partial contact and your OW has already found your replacement....while still married to that apparently abusive H? And you are pining away for this woman?

 

are you not ALSO an abusive H? Dishonest, cheating with a friend and neighbor's of your wife's?

 

Your IC is an idiot. many of them are. Ask him if he is happily married or just adequately so? ask him how often he lies and keeps secrets from his spouse?

 

hy should your wife attempt to fix a relationship she does not know is broken? your attempts to talk to her, while unable to be loving, attentive, physical, while pining away for your serial OW, probably just sounds like more criticism and discontent to her.

 

Did you once ask her what. Changes she would like to see in the relationship?

 

get tested, PULLEAZE, for STDS. you may not have been the only OM for Ms. Insecure, I can't resist the attention from other men.

 

Ugh! you can have your hand held in therapy (they'll gladly take your money while you sit feeling sorry for yourself) OR you can seriously work to fix your marriage.

 

imagine your wife doing everything you did with your lover, with her's, without you ever being informed. Don't you get that you can never achieve true intimacy as long as you keep secrets?