Talking smack about the BS while in A fog

[CantgetoveritNY]

My hate has slowly left my heart. It has taken some time for it to do so, but I worked on it daily. Do I still feel resentment towards him? Yes, I would be lying if I said I didn't, but that is slowly leaving my heart also. It is what I pray for because I want to be over it, but for me, not for his sake. Everyone told me that eventually I would get to a point where that was not my main focus and then ultimately, the feelings just would not be there. I am on my way - not there yet, but so much closer to that than I was. Hang in, and hopefully it will happen for you as well.

 

I have no ill will towards the OW. She did not end up with XH, stopped it when I found out. I did not out her - my choice. She has 2 children about my son's age (he was 20 when this first went down, now 22) and I was not willing to hurt them. My son has really suffered and feels differently about his dad. While I blame his dad for his choices, it breaks my heart to see this and I am not sorry I didn't tell her H. Not at all and I didn't need anyone to tell me what to do. I knew, for me, it was the right thing to do. While I think she did the wrong thing, her obligation was to her H and she can live with that. My XH's obligation was to me and he chose to cheat and lie instead of ending our 22 marriage the honorable way. You know what? He has to live with that, too. And if he can, well, good for him. I got sick of worrying about making him suffer or wishing that he would. Once I did, my life has improved by small increments, but I am headed in the right way. I wish that for you as well.

 

 

Ah! The high road. Sure, do the mature thing, leave us wallowing in the muck.

 

Seriously though, good for you. I'm glad to hear about it.

[Steen719]

Ah! The high road. Sure, do the mature thing, leave us wallowing in the muck.

 

Seriously though, good for you. I'm glad to hear about it.

 

Ha ha ha

 

I did have some concern for her H, but my concern for her children was stronger. I mean, my son is still having some issues related to this and he is in the 4th year in college - not a good time for issues (as if any time is). My decision to not tell the OW's H was never for her sake. She meant and means nothing to me and I felt no compunction to save her or help her at all. It was never for her sake or my XH's sake. I also had many written conversations with the OW and I was direct with her. I have no idea whether it meant anything to her or not and again, I don't care.

 

I don't know about mature, but I did what I felt I had to do. I have no good feelings towards her, feel that people who engage in relationships with married people are self-centered and selfish and absolutely have no issue with people who tell spouses, but it was the right thing for me.

[road]

How is it going hating your x-wife? Sorry it does not sound like a great path either. I can imagine that in some cases there is no way to avoid it. I may end up there with you soon. But for now mine is at least saying the right things. Although I have a bad feeling about it, feeling like it is going to end up like so many others in another heart break, still right now if I hated my WS I'm sure reconciliation would not be possible. So maybe seeing the WS as victim is a way to allow reconciliation a chance. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not but if you don't give it a chance....

 

I sure don't ever see a down side to hating the predatory OM though.

 

 

After affairs many BS put all their hate on the AP.

 

Then people make a knee jerk response to point out that their WS deserves just as much hate if not more then the AP because their WS broke their marriage vows to them. The AP never made any vows to the BS.

 

Problem is that most marraiges do not end in divorce after an affair (78% of marriages survive an affair). They reason is the BS can't hate the WS forever and stay married. So they let go of the hate for the WS to heal.

 

There is no need, reason, motivation for the BS to stop wishing that today is the day the AP drops dead.

 

And, addressing never stop hating your WS being wrong. There is nothing wrong hating your WS forever and for the BS to be wishing that today is the day the WS drops dead.

 

This is why not all marriages survive an affair. Some of the BS can not forgive the cheating.

Edited December 6, 2012 by road

[frozensprouts]

a kind of different take on it could be that with a wayward spouse, chances are you've been married a while and there may have been some things done by either spouse that were hurtful...in this context, one could say that there may have at least been a "reason" for the cheating ( before anyone freaks out, I don't think "reason" equates with "justification", those are very different things, and cheating is never okay...)

 

with an other man/woman, a lot of the time, the betrayed spouse barely knows them ( if they even know them at all), yet this stranger, who the betrayed spouse has done nothing to and has never hurt, has somehow seen fit to participate in something hurtful towards them...

 

maybe I'm naive, but I just find it so hard to get around the idea that someone could hurt someone in that way that they don't even know

 

anyway you slice it, the whole damned situation is totally messed up

[j'adore]

After affairs many BS put all their hate on the AP.

 

Then people make a knee jerk response to point out that their WS deserves just as much hate if not more then the AP because their WS broke their marriage vows to them. The AP never made any vows to the BS.

 

Problem is that most marraiges do not end in divorce after an affair (78% of marriages survive an affair). They reason is the BS can't hate the WS forever and stay married. So they let go of the hate for the WS to heal.

 

There is no need, reason, motivation for the BS to stop wishing that today is the day the AP drops dead.

 

And, addressing never stop hating your WS being wrong. There is nothing wrong hating your WS forever and for the BS to be wishing that today is the day the WS drops dead.

 

This is why not all marriages survive an affair. Some of the BS can not forgive the cheating.

 

Hate is a very destructive feeling. You actually destroy yourself inside.

 

I agree with most of your post but the 78 per cent bit is definitely wrong. Where did you get that number from? I know 5 couples who all had APs and all divorced, although they did not cite it in the papers. I don't know any who stayed at all.

[frozensprouts]

Hate is a very destructive feeling. You actually destroy yourself inside.

 

I agree with most of your post but the 78 per cent bit is definitely wrong. Where did you get that number from? I know 5 couples who all had APs and all divorced, although they did not cite it in the papers. I don't know any who stayed at all.

 

citing statistics doesn't prove/disprove anything, neither does anecdotal evidence...all a person need do is look at their own life...

 

one one is involved in an affair, who cares if 78% or 10% of reconciled marriages last. All that matters is their own situation. If a wayward spouse stays in their marriage, then that's what they've chosen...no statistic will help with that....

[Decorative]

If we are just using anecdotes- I know 7 personal cases of infidelity.

 

4 stayed and worked like crazy on their marriages. All are happy.

 

1 divorced immediately. Cheater chased her and tried really hard to get her back. She was a brick wall of no.

 

1 tried to reconcile, but husband was serial cheater, and they recently broke up for good over newest affair partner.

 

And the other- affair partners married. 16 years. OW is an alcoholic who rides daily on the crazy train, and her xMM/spouse is a serial cheater who has been fired for sexual harassment multiple times.

 

All that with withstanding- anecdotes do not good data make.

[Summer Breeze]

a kind of different take on it could be that with a wayward spouse, chances are you've been married a while and there may have been some things done by either spouse that were hurtful...in this context, one could say that there may have at least been a "reason" for the cheating ( before anyone freaks out, I don't think "reason" equates with "justification", those are very different things, and cheating is never okay...)

 

with an other man/woman, a lot of the time, the betrayed spouse barely knows them ( if they even know them at all), yet this stranger, who the betrayed spouse has done nothing to and has never hurt, has somehow seen fit to participate in something hurtful towards them...

 

maybe I'm naive, but I just find it so hard to get around the idea that someone could hurt someone in that way that they don't even know

 

anyway you slice it, the whole damned situation is totally messed up

 

So the BS has never hurt the AP so the AP has no 'reason' to have an A with the WS. But the WS who may have been hurt by the BS has a 'reason' to hurt the BS back and that might lead to the A. That means the WS actions are more understandable than the actions of the AP. Am I getting that right? I'm trying to wrap my head around it and don't think it's working. You wrote something similar in a thread that was moved to the General Discussion forum but I thought for sure I misread it. This is saying about the same thing and I want to make sure I'm getting what you're meaning.

[Summer Breeze]

If we are just using anecdotes- I know 7 personal cases of infidelity.

 

4 stayed and worked like crazy on their marriages. All are happy.

 

1 divorced immediately. Cheater chased her and tried really hard to get her back. She was a brick wall of no.

 

1 tried to reconcile, but husband was serial cheater, and they recently broke up for good over newest affair partner.

 

And the other- affair partners married. 16 years. OW is an alcoholic who rides daily on the crazy train, and her xMM/spouse is a serial cheater who has been fired for sexual harassment multiple times.

 

All that with withstanding- anecdotes do not good data make.

 

 

Anecdotes are basically short true stories. I'd say we're all in here tossing around anecdotes all day. I agree they don't make good data but I don't think statistics do either. Most of us see things in our lives and it becomes our truth to some degree. It can shift and change over time because we keep changing but our anecdotes come from the same experiences and happenings around us that we post about here. They don't make good data but I tend to trust what I see a whole lot more than some statistical data gathered in a test lab in Guadalajara (sp) in 1974. Yes I am stretching that a little I know! My point is that an anecdote is part of what we see and what we process as our own statistics in a lot of ways. You can't go screaming it from the rooftops as a clinically proven fact but again I trust what I see as facts in my life and will quote that a whole lot more than I will stats.

[frozensprouts]

So the BS has never hurt the AP so the AP has no 'reason' to have an A with the WS. But the WS who may have been hurt by the BS has a 'reason' to hurt the BS back and that might lead to the A. That means the WS actions are more understandable than the actions of the AP. Am I getting that right? I'm trying to wrap my head around it and don't think it's working. You wrote something similar in a thread that was moved to the General Discussion forum but I thought for sure I misread it. This is saying about the same thing and I want to make sure I'm getting what you're meaning.

 

it's hard to explain, but I'll try again...

 

in any long term relationship, there may be behavior that went on that was unintentionally hurtful, antagonistic, etc. We all have bad days, grumpy days, or say things we don't really mean because of something else going on in our lives. Over time, this can build up. One spouse may begin to feel angry, hurt, resentful, etc., and if they don't have the right "tools' to handle it, they may find themselves giving into the temptation to cheat.

I can understand that...it doesn't mean that I condone it, agree with it, think it's a good idea or that the person wasn't making a stupid decision. Rather, I can understand it, which means that I can forgive it and , in a weird way, find it easier to get my head around it.

 

( it's like if one of my kids has been pestering the other one and then the one being pestered reacts by swatting the person bugging them...I don't condone the swatting, nor do they get rewarded for it, and I don't think it's okay...by I can understand it...)

 

I can't get my head around the idea that someone could engage in behavior that they know is hurting someone who's a stranger or worse, a friend who has doesn't nothing hurtful to them at all. How someone can ever feel okay about engaging in hurtful behavior is beyond me. How they can separate themselves from that behavior and absolve themselves of responsibility is also beyond me...

 

( if one of my kids is out on the playground and some kid they don't even know and they've done nothing to comes up and swats them...I don't condone that, and I can't even say that I understand it)

 

this may not be the way you think, as you don't seem to feel that the other man/woman is in any way responsible for the affair, and I get that. I'm not saying that the idea above is the right way for people to think..but it is my way, convoluted though it may be.

[Decorative]

Anecdotes are basically short true stories. I'd say we're all in here tossing around anecdotes all day. I agree they don't make good data but I don't think statistics do either. Most of us see things in our lives and it becomes our truth to some degree. It can shift and change over time because we keep changing but our anecdotes come from the same experiences and happenings around us that we post about here. They don't make good data but I tend to trust what I see a whole lot more than some statistical data gathered in a test lab in Guadalajara (sp) in 1974. Yes I am stretching that a little I know! My point is that an anecdote is part of what we see and what we process as our own statistics in a lot of ways. You can't go screaming it from the rooftops as a clinically proven fact but again I trust what I see as facts in my life and will quote that a whole lot more than I will stats.

 

 

 

I understand anecdotes. That is why I said what I said in my post . And anecdotes are quite different from data and statistics - because the information in anecdotes is self selected and filtered through experiences. It is actually important to make that distinction. Quite important. That's why properly metered data and statistics do tell us the truth. Far more than our personal biases.

 

But thanks for explaining a concept I already explained. LOL

Edited December 6, 2012 by Decorative

[Summer Breeze]

it's hard to explain, but I'll try again...

 

in any long term relationship, there may be behavior that went on that was unintentionally hurtful, antagonistic, etc. We all have bad days, grumpy days, or say things we don't really mean because of something else going on in our lives. Over time, this can build up. One spouse may begin to feel angry, hurt, resentful, etc., and if they don't have the right "tools' to handle it, they may find themselves giving into the temptation to cheat.

I can understand that...it doesn't mean that I condone it, agree with it, think it's a good idea or that the person wasn't making a stupid decision. Rather, I can understand it, which means that I can forgive it and , in a weird way, find it easier to get my head around it.

 

( it's like if one of my kids has been pestering the other one and then the one being pestered reacts by swatting the person bugging them...I don't condone the swatting, nor do they get rewarded for it, and I don't think it's okay...by I can understand it...)

 

I can't get my head around the idea that someone could engage in behavior that they know is hurting someone who's a stranger or worse, a friend who has doesn't nothing hurtful to them at all. How someone can ever feel okay about engaging in hurtful behavior is beyond me. How they can separate themselves from that behavior and absolve themselves of responsibility is also beyond me...

 

( if one of my kids is out on the playground and some kid they don't even know and they've done nothing to comes up and swats them...I don't condone that, and I can't even say that I understand it)

 

this may not be the way you think, as you don't seem to feel that the other man/woman is in any way responsible for the affair, and I get that. I'm not saying that the idea above is the right way for people to think..but it is my way, convoluted though it may be.

 

Thanks FS I thought I understood what you were getting at but wasn't quite sure. I think I really did though. I see what you're getting at but I look at it differently. Again it's the WS who was in for the good and the bad so where I do understand what you're saying I don't get it or accept it. I don't like using the word accept there but I can't think of any other that really fits what I mean. I accept what you're saying but I can't accept it would be any kind of reason or anything to base understanding by the BS on. Using what you said I would see a ONS as more in line with your thoughts. It would be quick like a swat and not repeated. An A is so deliberate and many last long enough that it's not like a reaction to something. That's my thought but it was an interesting thing to think about. And no, it's not convoluted. We all believe what we believe.

 

I absolutely feel that the AP is responsible for their part in the A. I was responsible for my part but it had nothing to do with his part of it. I made the decisions I did based on feelings for him and also how it would affect my life. I didn't hold him accountable for my decisions at any point and I wasn't accountable for his. The decisions he made were what affected his W. The decisions I made affected my life. When I wanted more and he didn't oblige I made the decision to end it. I did it for me. Not him and not his W. He could have done the same at any point at all but his decision was to carry on.

 

I know we don't and won't agree and that's ok. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[Summer Breeze]

I understand anecdotes. That is why I said what I said in my post . And anecdotes are quite different from data and statistics - because the information in anecdotes is self selected and filtered through experiences. It is actually important to make that distinction. Quite important. That's why properly metered data and statistics do tell us the truth. Far more than our personal biases.

 

But thanks for explaining a concept I already explained. LOL

 

Ummm sarcasm noted even though it wasn't necessary. I simply had something to add and I don't believe I was actually trying to explain anything to you. I was merely stating that all of us share our anecdotes here on a daily basis and that a lot of people, me included, prefer to look at the world around us and filter things that way at least to a degree. I'm not a believer in stats because in my many years I've seen them skewed six ways to Sunday to champion whatever cause was dragging them out. Kind of like they were self selected and filtered depending on the result required.

 

Glad I gave you a laugh.

[CantgetoveritNY]

 

The decisions he made were what affected his W. The decisions I made affected my life.

 

This is what I don't get about the mind of the OW/OM. Sure your MM made decisions that affected his BS. But your decision to participate affected the BS too. You knew he was married, right? So by agreeing to not just support but to actively participate in his bad decision you share responsibility for the pain of the BS and the carnage of the A. If you pursued the MM you take a huge part of the responsibility. You decision affected a whole lot more than just your life. Your failure to see that has left destruction all around you.

[Summer Breeze]

This is what I don't get about the mind of the OW/OM. Sure your MM made decisions that affected his BS. But your decision to participate affected the BS too. You knew he was married, right? So by agreeing to not just support but to actively participate in his bad decision you share responsibility for the pain of the BS and the carnage of the A. If you pursued the MM you take a huge part of the responsibility. You decision affected a whole lot more than just your life. Your failure to see that has left destruction all around you.

 

You're welcome to think that way but I don't. His failure to protect his M left destruction all around him. I didn't hide anything from friends and family so other than licking my wounds when I ended it I didn't have any destruction. I didn't pursue him. I knew him for quite a while before through business and when the feelings were obvious he broached the subject. We discussed it and I gave him a lot to think of and tried to change his mind. My choice was to be in the A but I wanted him aware of what his choice would do. I'm fine if you or anyone else holds me responsible. I was fine when his xW did. I take responsibility for my decisions and their effect on my life and his decisions were his to take responsibiilty for. You're welcome to PM me if you have any more comments or questions. I don't want to go into a huge t/j here.

[CantgetoveritNY]

You're welcome to PM me if you have any more comments or questions. I don't want to go into a huge t/j here.

 

I understand. Thanks for being willing to contribute to the discussion.

[Summer Breeze]

I understand. Thanks for being willing to contribute to the discussion.

 

Not a problem.

[Decorative]

Ummm sarcasm noted even though it wasn't necessary. I simply had something to add and I don't believe I was actually trying to explain anything to you. I was merely stating that all of us share our anecdotes here on a daily basis and that a lot of people, me included, prefer to look at the world around us and filter things that way at least to a degree. I'm not a believer in stats because in my many years I've seen them skewed six ways to Sunday to champion whatever cause was dragging them out. Kind of like they were self selected and filtered depending on the result required.

 

Glad I gave you a laugh.

 

 

People don't laugh enough. It's good when it happens, intentional or not.

[flightysue]

Hate is a very destructive feeling. You actually destroy yourself inside.

 

I agree with most of your post but the 78 per cent bit is definitely wrong. Where did you get that number from? I know 5 couples who all had APs and all divorced, although they did not cite it in the papers. I don't know any who stayed at all.

 

 

 

 

 

I doubt the figure is that high, but realistically the people that stay just end up miserable anyhow. My father had an affair and was truly in love, but he stayed because that was the thing to do, they were both miserable. It was really sad to not live their lives to be happy but just because neither wanted to leave the house not each other. They just affected everyone around them with their constant bickering. I have seen other marriages go this way too.

 

There's one who did........

[CantgetoveritNY]

I doubt the figure is that high, but realistically the people that stay just end up miserable anyhow. My father had an affair and was truly in love, but he stayed because that was the thing to do, they were both miserable.

 

 

I think this is really pessimistic. If the parties just stay together for the kids or b/c they are afraid to change, sure, then you are right they will be miserable. But I'm sure there are lots of couples that reconcile and grow together. I've read some posts on LS where they say, while they wish the A never happened, still their R was stronger and deeper b/c it was the catalyst for growth and change.

[flightysue]

Sorry, my post was not very clear.

 

I was quoting j'adore both times. She said that she had known five couples involved in affairs where the marriage had ended and had never known a marriage which had survived an affair. However, previously she said that her father had an affair and had ended up staying with her mother.

 

Surely both can't be true???

[road]

I doubt the figure is that high, but realistically the people that stay just end up miserable anyhow. My father had an affair and was truly in love, but he stayed because that was the thing to do, they were both miserable. It was really sad to not live their lives to be happy but just because neither wanted to leave the house not each other. They just affected everyone around them with their constant bickering. I have seen other marriages go this way too.

 

There's one who did........

 

 

That is because neither one would make the effort to learn how to repair the damage and have a better marriage post dday.

 

Marriages don't heal just because the WS stops banging their AP.

[waterwoman]

That is because neither one would make the effort to learn how to repair the damage and have a better marriage post dday.

 

Marriages don't heal just because the WS stops banging their AP.

 

Exactly. I've never done anything as hard work and confusing as this reconciliation business. There are times I wonder if it's worth it but then I remember all our good times and our lovely children and the fact that, yes, we do still love each other, and I realise it would be worth it if it was 100x harder.

[beenburned]

FS,

 

I think she said she has never seen a happy successful reconciliation after infidelity.

 

Which is obsured because we have many BS's posting here that are many years past their d-day! They are happy loving couples who have accepted that the infidelity will forever be a small part of their long history together.

[ComingInHot]

talking smack about the BS. I think is ABSOLUTELY (save for the few exceptions) true. I am in the middle of a thread in the OW section and some of responses concur that the MM or MW does say some cruel things about his W to the OW. Mine did too. It's just so Ugly all round. So much hurt done to people looking for a "real" connection only to find out about the galighting to both parties!

 

Stupid WS's.