At The End of My Rope

[recoveringdoormat]

Let me start by saying that I know and recognize part of my problem is that I was a doormat for years, allowing my husband to walk all over me, I had no boundaries, and just overlooked a lot of his flaws because I had such low self-esteem. Two years in therapy have cured the self-esteem issue, taught me the importance of boundaries, and although I started therapy in hopes that it would improve my marriage, it has done the opposite: Ever since I found my voice and started using it, implemented boundaries in my relationship, my relationship can only be described as chaotic and volatile, with my husband angry at every attempt at autonomy on my part.

 

So I guess my biggest questions are:

 

Given this scenario, can this marriage be saved? He refuses to participate in counseling himself, refuses to see that it's healthy for us not to be joined at the hip -- seriously, guys, he follows me to the bathroom more often than not, so I mean this literally -- and that we have a lot of work to do to make this work; and that whining about it isn't going to fix it, but some hard work might. It's a seriously one-sided effort at this point, where I try to listen to his point of view and talk about it, whereas he throws tantrums when he perceives something is wrong. He also has a tendency to say nothing about a problem on his own, then when I bring something up I want to talk about, he dominates the conversation with his problem and won't listen to my concern at all.

 

The other big thing is just a loss of attraction and respect for him on my part. He is very, very immature, behaves much like a child more often than not. As I said he throws tantrums with regularity. One instance is tonight I was in the middle of cooking dinner, tending to a sick kid, yelling at another kid who threw something at the other, and fielding an emergency phone call from work. He had asked me prior to all of this to look at some paperwork for a new job he started today, and honestly I forgot all about it in the midst of the chaos. He then came in with a crappy attitude wanting to know if I had looked at the paper yet. I said, "What paper was it again?" He started stomping around the house, screaming, "Just screw it, I'll do it myself; I don't need your effing help." Really? The other night he couldn't sleep, so he came downstairs where I was downloading books on my Kindle. He told me he was having a hard time sleeping, so I told him to try some milk and take a muscle relaxer if his back was acting up and that's why he couldn't sleep. He threw something across the room and yelled, "Fine, you sit there and download your damn books and I'll get to sleep myself." Really, I'm supposed to make him fall asleep? I know what you're thinking -- maybe he wanted some love -- but we had already done that before he went to lay down the first time.

 

He has a tendency to talk in jokes, movie lines, and the like, and so it's impossible to have a real conversation with him of any substance. I thought maybe it was just me, but today he started a new job and in the first hour, the superintendent pulled him aside and told him that while he appreciated he had a sense of humor, he needed to tone it down because several coworkers and the client had already complained that he was being too crude. THE FIRST HOUR!!! Let me add, too, that this is his eighth job in three years.

 

To sweeten the toxic pot, he is textbook passive-aggressive, and the behavior is maddening to live with. He promises to do household repairs, never does them; he operates under covert contracts, and throws tantrums when I can't read his mind and satisfy his whims. Because he refuses to take responsibility for anything, I've had to assume nearly all of it, and it's exhausting living/thinking for both of us constantly. We have had recurring issues with him telling lies -- big lies, small lies, white lies, black lies, and everything in between -- and getting caught, and so trust has eroded, and I'm not sure I can forget all the damage his lies have done and forgive enough to be vulnerable again.

 

I just feel like the more healthy I get due to therapy, working on myself and my self-esteem, the more unhealthy I see that this relationship really is. I do feel a moral obligation to honor my vows, but I'm really starting to wonder if it's worth doing so at the expense of my sanity.

[jgaz3124]

I think your quality of life would go up for you and your kids if you left him. It is not healthy for the children to see how he treats you. You have an obligation to them to show them what is and isn't healthy in relationships.

[Nightsky]

He sounds annoying but things could be worse. Therapy is silly he shouldn't have to go.

 

I don't know what you should do. I'm a man! I'd try to control you! Seriously women like a strong guy who tells them what to do and protects them. He shouldn't throw tantrums though. You'd be olright in my book if the sex was regular and you weren't nagging me. Some times it's fun to follow your woman around though.

[2sunny]

Sounds like he acts like a child!

 

That would never appeal to me.

 

You can only carry that weight around your ankles so long before it drags down every aspect of your life.

 

I hope you know where your boundary is.

[Solcita2]

I understand you a 100%, I'm going through something similar.

 

Even when you have lost a little respect for him, do you still love this man?

 

If you do and want to try... I'd recommend you talk to him and tell him you can't keep living like this anymore... that you have grown up and he hasn't... if he wants to work things out he should start therapy to help the relationship.

 

I'd say give yourself a time frame for him to accept the proposal... if his behavior is still the same and he still doesn't work things out, then I guess he's making the decision for you...

 

Hope it all gets better, no matter the outcome.

 

Sol

[Realist3]

You will never get through to him. Take time to plan your exit and then go.

[recoveringdoormat]

I want to thank you all for taking the time to reply and at least let me know that I'm not entirely crazy in thinking he needs to grow up. I also didn't mean to suggest that I'm blameless in this whole mess. I realize and admit that I'm getting more frustrated by the day, and it's becoming harder and harder to be nice to him. And I realize in some respects I changed the game. I accepted his behavior for so long, and now I can't continue to do it and am telling him to step it up, and maybe my expectations now that I've gotten healthier are just more than he can offer. I guess I just always assumed that as people aged chronologically, they matured emotionally, as well. But he's 42. It's probably time I need to accept that if he hasn't grown up yet, he simply won't, ever.

 

Ironically, I haven't been back here to check replies because my dad had to go to the hospital, but did have "the talk" with my husband earlier tonight after he threw a mantrum of epic proportions over a misplaced paper (that he later found in his van) and basically just told him that I didn't sign up for and have no desire to continue to be his "mother." I told him as kindly as I could that it's just not normal for grown men to act the way he does, behave the way he does, and be completely dependent upon their wives; that most men are able to function somewhat independently and not need direction in every aspect of their lives. I don't know why today's tantrum affected me the way it did, but in the middle of it, as I'm watching him stomp, pout, and whine I just said, "I can't live like this every day for the rest of my life; I just can't." Like I said, I feel a moral obligation to honor my vows, but I am taking a few days away to clear my head and reconcile that with what I know I need to do.

 

Solcita2, you asked if I still love him. That is so hard to answer. I love him like you do a child that you don't want to give up on. I love him because he's been a big part of my life and we have kids. But I don't think I love him at all like you're supposed to love a husband. I think there's just too much resentment after all the lies and chaos to ever get it back, you know? The more I think about things, there just isn't enough positive to outweigh the constant negatives. I guess there's my answer right there. Funny how just writing and venting and getting some outside perspective kind of puts the writing on the wall for you, sometimes.

 

So thank you all for taking the time to give your opinions and for giving me some food for thought. This sucks, that's all there is to it; but I have to believe that whatever comes after this has to be a better way to live for my kids and I.

[whichwayisup]

Continue doing counseling on your own.

 

Try this. Get a sitter for a weekend or ask the grandparents to come stay with the kids. you and your husband go away for a weekend, rent a hotel room, have a spa/massage together, and just be together. Laugh and talk, keep it light, just see how it is without the kids, life pressure etc.. Tell your H that you two need alone time to bond..See how he reacts.

 

I think just upping and leaving/divorcing without really talking to him about how you feel (I think you should write down more or less what you said above and show him the letter, then sit and talk to him after he reads it) is wrong. for the sake of your kids, you owe it to them and to your H to fix things. If he is willing to do counseling and try to make life easier, help more and be less passive, could you be happier in your marriage?

[2sunny]

Why should he do anything for himself if he's got you to figure out all the problems he creates?

 

When you find solutions he also has someone to blame instead of himself.

 

Step away from that role completely for him - he's not likely to grow up as long as he can use you as his scapegoat.

 

Not healthy dynamics. I don't blame you for being mad and wanting out!

[2sunny]

Narcissism is one of those personality disorders that RARELY responds to therapy.

 

They've termed it to be incapable of changing that in a person.

[BetheButterfly]

Let me start by saying that I know and recognize part of my problem is that I was a doormat for years, allowing my husband to walk all over me, I had no boundaries, and just overlooked a lot of his flaws because I had such low self-esteem. Two years in therapy have cured the self-esteem issue, taught me the importance of boundaries, and although I started therapy in hopes that it would improve my marriage, it has done the opposite: Ever since I found my voice and started using it, implemented boundaries in my relationship, my relationship can only be described as chaotic and volatile, with my husband angry at every attempt at autonomy on my part.

 

First of all, congratulations on recovering!!! That is awesome! Secondly, of course if someone has treated you as a doormat, they're not going to be pleased when you begin to act like a lady worthy of respect, which is who you are. You are not a doormat. You are a wonderful lady worthy of respect, kindness, and love!!! Your husband just doesn't understand that.

 

So I guess my biggest questions are:

 

Given this scenario, can this marriage be saved?

 

He's got to seriously change his attitude, his view concerning you, and his behavior for this marriage to be saved.

 

He refuses to participate in counseling himself, refuses to see that it's healthy for us not to be joined at the hip -- seriously, guys, he follows me to the bathroom more often than not, so I mean this literally -- and that we have a lot of work to do to make this work; and that whining about it isn't going to fix it, but some hard work might. It's a seriously one-sided effort at this point, where I try to listen to his point of view and talk about it, whereas he throws tantrums when he perceives something is wrong. He also has a tendency to say nothing about a problem on his own, then when I bring something up I want to talk about, he dominates the conversation with his problem and won't listen to my concern at all.

 

You need to get out. He does not have the ability right now to have a healthy marriage. Now, he can change his attitude, view, and behavior if he recognizes that the need, but obviously he hasn't even recognized it yet. That's like an alcoholic or druggie who doesn't even consider themselves that yet.

 

The other big thing is just a loss of attraction and respect for him on my part. He is very, very immature, behaves much like a child more often than not. As I said he throws tantrums with regularity. One instance is tonight I was in the middle of cooking dinner, tending to a sick kid, yelling at another kid who threw something at the other, and fielding an emergency phone call from work. He had asked me prior to all of this to look at some paperwork for a new job he started today, and honestly I forgot all about it in the midst of the chaos. He then came in with a crappy attitude wanting to know if I had looked at the paper yet. I said, "What paper was it again?" He started stomping around the house, screaming, "Just screw it, I'll do it myself; I don't need your effing help." Really? The other night he couldn't sleep, so he came downstairs where I was downloading books on my Kindle. He told me he was having a hard time sleeping, so I told him to try some milk and take a muscle relaxer if his back was acting up and that's why he couldn't sleep. He threw something across the room and yelled, "Fine, you sit there and download your damn books and I'll get to sleep myself." Really, I'm supposed to make him fall asleep? I know what you're thinking -- maybe he wanted some love -- but we had already done that before he went to lay down the first time.

 

He has a tendency to talk in jokes, movie lines, and the like, and so it's impossible to have a real conversation with him of any substance. I thought maybe it was just me, but today he started a new job and in the first hour, the superintendent pulled him aside and told him that while he appreciated he had a sense of humor, he needed to tone it down because several coworkers and the client had already complained that he was being too crude. THE FIRST HOUR!!! Let me add, too, that this is his eighth job in three years.

 

To sweeten the toxic pot, he is textbook passive-aggressive, and the behavior is maddening to live with. He promises to do household repairs, never does them; he operates under covert contracts, and throws tantrums when I can't read his mind and satisfy his whims. Because he refuses to take responsibility for anything, I've had to assume nearly all of it, and it's exhausting living/thinking for both of us constantly. We have had recurring issues with him telling lies -- big lies, small lies, white lies, black lies, and everything in between -- and getting caught, and so trust has eroded, and I'm not sure I can forget all the damage his lies have done and forgive enough to be vulnerable again.

 

I just feel like the more healthy I get due to therapy, working on myself and my self-esteem, the more unhealthy I see that this relationship really is.

 

Your husband is not capable of having a healthy relationship right now. He needs to work on himself and improve. He really needs to go to a life counselor, have an attitude willing to change, and get help.

 

You can't force him to even see his need to improve. However, you can leave. I would advice you to take your kids and go to a woman's shelter, your family's house, or a friend's house. Make sure to note what he has done and if he throws a hissy fit when you leave. Be careful, cause sometmes hissy fits can turn violent. It's not cool when a kid throws a hissy fit; it's even less cool and can be dangerous when an adult man throws one. Please be careful and please get out.

I do feel a moral obligation to honor my vows, but I'm really starting to wonder if it's worth doing so at the expense of my sanity.

 

If your husband was a caring and mature man, then I would agree with you about the moral obligation. However, I don't believe it is morally right to stay in a marriage where you are being hurt and your kids are seeing their Dad treat you without respect. That is not a good influence on them. Children need an environment with peace, joy, fun, and harmony. They don't need an environment where their Dad is throwing hissy fits.

 

Please separate and be safe,and provide a safe, healthy, and peaceful environment for your children.

[recoveringdoormat]

Continue doing counseling on your own.

 

Try this. Get a sitter for a weekend or ask the grandparents to come stay with the kids. you and your husband go away for a weekend, rent a hotel room, have a spa/massage together, and just be together. Laugh and talk, keep it light, just see how it is without the kids, life pressure etc.. Tell your H that you two need alone time to bond..See how he reacts.

 

I think just upping and leaving/divorcing without really talking to him about how you feel (I think you should write down more or less what you said above and show him the letter, then sit and talk to him after he reads it) is wrong. for the sake of your kids, you owe it to them and to your H to fix things. If he is willing to do counseling and try to make life easier, help more and be less passive, could you be happier in your marriage?

 

I appreciate this suggestion....but I've already done this. I kept telling myself, "Maybe we just need some time away, without the kids, without normal life pressures for a couple of days to see what happens." While it wasn't a true-to-life disaster, it wasn't as helpful in reconnecting us as I thought maybe it might be. Maybe there just isn't anything left to reconnect, you know?

 

But we went to dinner; he complained it took too long for the food to come out. I had booked a jacuzzi room at a hotel; he complained the jacuzzi wasn't big enough, it wasn't a "real" jacuzzi. Then it was how much money we were spending for food that took too long and a too-small jacuzzi. It finally got to the point where I just went to bed, because the truth was, it did cost of lot of money.....to listen to him complain, and I could've done that at home for free.

 

I think I have talked to him until I'm blue in the face, so I'm not just upping and leaving. I even had him pick a counselor last year so that we could talk to her together, where I laid out how frustrated I was with everything, he aired his issues, and the counselor -- who was not MY counselor; it was someone he picked -- told him that his behaviors were so destructive that she couldn't imagine why I stayed with him; that while I had changes to make, the onus was on him to make some pretty big ones if he didn't want to lose his marriage. I had sat him down and talked to him just days before posting my original post, letting him know I was really close to my breaking point if something didn't give. I have written letters; I have spoken with his best guy friend who has an ability to get through to him -- and to whose house he goes every time he leaves for days on end when he gets mad at me, so this guy knows everything - and he has talked to him to tell him to knock off some of the more destructive stuff. I have run out of options, as far as I can see.

 

I don't think it's just an issue right now of if he could be less passive and help more -- although I'm curious what "help" looks like after all this time! -- and I would be happier, but that he would have to do some serious recovery work and learn not to be so self-centered, so entitled, so high-maintenance, and essentially learn how to age maturely the 35 years that somehow got overlooked. I believe in the power of recovery work, obviously, but I'm just not sure that counseling can change those traits that are so inherent in a person that they're like their eye color. I really am to the point where I think these behaviors are so ingrained that there's no changing them for the long term. Sure, he can do it for a day or two, but he reverts right back to "me, me, me" after that.

[recoveringdoormat]

My ex was like this. I worked two jobs plus went to school full time and though he only worked part time he ALWAYS bitched for me to do more. I would work 16 hours and then be expected to clean the house, do the dishes, launder the clothes, cook dinner and watch the kids AS I did homework!

 

Like you, in the beginning I did it because I didn't set up boundaries, I took it for granted that it was my gender role to take care of the house (and I shut my mouth about my resentment that I had to work like a man too because he would pitch a fit that I was challenging his masculinity!). My mom was a care taker so I modeled her behavior, and I did have low self esteem...

 

But the pressure took its toll. He was exhausting, like having a third child. A big self entitled one who was SUPPOSED to be my help mate but instead only further burdened me. I slept little, barely spent any money on myself (always spent it on the family), I was mentally drained. After six years of this I started gagging from stress, became emaciated, I was constantly high strung like a candle burning at both ends, constantly made to feel guilty for not dropping everything to tend to his tiniest need he COULD have easily done himself.

 

When I realized how I was resenting him and couldn't live this way anymore without losing my sanity or my love for him I tried to enact boundaries. He pitched even bigger tantrums and laid bigger burdens on me almost as if to see how nuts he could make me! One day after two eight hour shifts, an all nighter of homework and taxing the kids he screamed I forgot to get his cereal bars at the store. This slight had him throwing a**t around the house, nostrils flaring, etc. that was my limit, I screamed: "you want cereal bars go get them yourself you lazy fu**! I work twice as much as you and go to school, you so nothing all day! *uck you and your cereal bars!!!"

 

Screaming back at him was a HUGE No no. He didn't talk to me for two months, seriously, he locked himself in the spare bedroom for two months. His behavior was so infantile, so self entitled, so illogical that in his silence phase I began googling what was wrong just to get some insight because He could not/would not explain or apologize. Turned out he fit the bill for NPD. When I confronted him he admitted he was diagnosed with it a decade earlier and found it funny it took me so long to figure it out!!!!!!

 

In the end I left. I couldn't fix things because the crap He did was so wretched that it killed every shred of love I had left for him (and I mean even the love you are currently hanging to as a fellow human/co-parent).

 

If you aren't at that point yet I would give him an ultimatum before you do reach that point: "marriage counseling or I'm leaving once my love completely exhausts. I'm only offering this for the kids' sake, yes it is THAT bad. Your behavior stripped you as a partner/man/lover/protector in my eyes, you are losing your man status and i basically see you as a child now. So when I say I'm serious Understand that i really mean it. You fix this while you can and very soon or else I AM going to leave because these kids need a stable parent and I will leave you FOR THEM rather than let you drive me insane and they have NO mature stable parent. I'm at the point where I don't even know if it CAN be fixed so understand this REALLY is your ONLY hope and you probably don't have long"...

 

First, thank you for sharing your story. It resonated with me in ways I probably could never explain. I'm so incredibly sorry you were married to one of these men, too, and trust me when I say I can feel your pain. Reading your story was difficult for me, honestly, because you were writing about my life -- you know, the one I just don't want to acknowledge is "that" bad. And now I'm scared **itless, because I know if it's NPD, it's pointless, even for the kids to have hope.

 

But I can relate to working yourself to death while he does so much less. For five years, I worked seven days a week, ten hours a day, to keep us afloat after some financial stuff he got involved in, but yet WE were liable for. I remember there being days I was so exhausted I would just cry, because there was still housework to be done or groceries to be bought because he was "too busy" to do those things -- busy doing what I have no idea since he wasn't at work and wasn't getting anything else done, either; oh, he was in front of the TV. I remember several times eating off of paper plates to save myself having to do dishes, just so I'd have extra time with my kids. I remember being screamed at because even though I was working a God-awful amount of hours, he thought I should be doing a better job of staying on top of the laundry, instead of taking it all to the laundromat on Friday nights.

 

I also remember the day I looked at myself in the mirror -- really looked at myself -- and I had no idea who I was anymore. Like you, I had not spent money on myself in years, so my clothes no longer fit quite right, I couldn't remember the last time I had had a haircut, there were lines and wrinkles that weren't there before. It was so depressing to see how I looked; to realize I had taken care of everybody else but forgot to take care of me. That was what started me on the road to recovery that has led me here. Me putting myself first a little every day so that I would have something to give someone else. I was literally drained that day, and empty, and wasn't sure I had what it took to continue being a good wife and mother; I contemplated whether my kids were better off without me, because I was just exhausted and knew I should be doing so much better. That was my rock bottom.

 

Two other things and I'll shut up; I have a tendency to be long-winded, sorry.

 

When you mentioned the effects of stress, I found myself nodding my head emphatically, because that's a new struggle of mine. I have become a "medical mystery" to the doctors here because I have the weirdest constellation of symptoms and yet none of the tests they run are pointing to anything specific. Everything under the sun, including cancer, MS, and Celiac disease have been ruled out, but the symptoms persist. It wasn't until I got a new doctor, a D.O., who finally sat me down and said, "Girlfriend, tell me what's going on in your life," that they have started to consider that the stress is manifesting itself physically.

 

Then the silent treatment....oh, boy, do I know that one well. Mine, like yours was, is a master. He can go weeks without talking, or even looking at me. He'll walk by me, and it's like he sees through me. He has thrown tantrums and walked out the door, stayed away for days on end, refusing to answer his phone. He once went a month without talking to either me or the kids; never called to even see if they were doing okay. I don't get how any human being can be that cold.

 

He and I are supposed to talk tomorrow, because now he's ready to go to counseling and hang the moon to make it better. I'm going to use much of what you said in your final paragraph as the framework for what I need to say, because it was perfect...and much nicer than anything I can come up with on my own right now. My struggle, of course, is getting real with myself as to whether or not I have it in me anymore for "one more chance." I'm afraid I may already be past the point of caring.

[recoveringdoormat]

Why should he do anything for himself if he's got you to figure out all the problems he creates?

 

When you find solutions he also has someone to blame instead of himself.

 

Step away from that role completely for him - he's not likely to grow up as long as he can use you as his scapegoat.

 

Not healthy dynamics. I don't blame you for being mad and wanting out!

 

This is exactly what my counselor has said, especially the part about stepping away from that role. I know it has to be done if we're to make this work, but the hard part in doing that is tempering that with his passive-aggressiveness, because, out of spite, he will do things that could affect both of us and then do nothing himself to fix it.

 

The part that sucks is I'm entirely responsible for setting up the very dynamic that now drives me insane. I've been trying to make friends with that for a while now

[recoveringdoormat]

First of all, congratulations on recovering!!! That is awesome! Secondly, of course if someone has treated you as a doormat, they're not going to be pleased when you begin to act like a lady worthy of respect, which is who you are. You are not a doormat. You are a wonderful lady worthy of respect, kindness, and love!!! Your husband just doesn't understand that.

 

 

 

He's got to seriously change his attitude, his view concerning you, and his behavior for this marriage to be saved.

 

 

 

You need to get out. He does not have the ability right now to have a healthy marriage. Now, he can change his attitude, view, and behavior if he recognizes that the need, but obviously he hasn't even recognized it yet. That's like an alcoholic or druggie who doesn't even consider themselves that yet.

 

 

 

Your husband is not capable of having a healthy relationship right now. He needs to work on himself and improve. He really needs to go to a life counselor, have an attitude willing to change, and get help.

 

You can't force him to even see his need to improve. However, you can leave. I would advice you to take your kids and go to a woman's shelter, your family's house, or a friend's house. Make sure to note what he has done and if he throws a hissy fit when you leave. Be careful, cause sometmes hissy fits can turn violent. It's not cool when a kid throws a hissy fit; it's even less cool and can be dangerous when an adult man throws one. Please be careful and please get out.

 

 

If your husband was a caring and mature man, then I would agree with you about the moral obligation. However, I don't believe it is morally right to stay in a marriage where you are being hurt and your kids are seeing their Dad treat you without respect. That is not a good influence on them. Children need an environment with peace, joy, fun, and harmony. They don't need an environment where their Dad is throwing hissy fits.

 

Please separate and be safe,and provide a safe, healthy, and peaceful environment for your children.

 

Thank you so much for all of your kind words and encouragement!! I can't tell you how much it means to me. I've read your opinion about the moral obligation multiple times, and I think it's finally starting to sink in!! I also love the comparison to an addict who doesn't realize they have a problem. I had never thought of it that way before, but that's exactly what we're dealing with here.

 

Probably the biggest thing that stuck out for me was you saying that he's not capable right now of having a healthy relationship. I can't tell you how many times I've said the words, "I love you, but this isn't healthy; you/we need to get some help," only to have them fall on deaf ears. And I sometimes feel hypocritical saying it, because Lord knows how broken I was when I started therapy, and I try very hard NOT to come off as haughty for having taken that journey, because he always throws in my face, "You think you're so great after all that therapy stuff." Truth is, I am starting to feel much better -- not great, but better. I know how much of a difference it has made for me, and I can't imagine why he's so reluctant to go....except for that part about he doesn't like being told he has to change anything or have someone else tell him that his behavior might be a problem. So I think this is the biggest thing: I keep trying to have a healthy, adult relationship with someone who just isn't capable of it right now. He may never be, but we know he can't right now.

 

I promise the kids and I are safe, though. We have a safe plan in place and my parents have been awesome in helping us set up everything we need to to make sure that no matter what happens the kids and I will be okay.

[BetheButterfly]

Thank you so much for all of your kind words and encouragement!! I can't tell you how much it means to me. I've read your opinion about the moral obligation multiple times, and I think it's finally starting to sink in!! I also love the comparison to an addict who doesn't realize they have a problem. I had never thought of it that way before, but that's exactly what we're dealing with here.

 

Sometimes it takes an "Intervention" for an addict to realize that he or she has a problem that is hurting both oneself and the others who love him/her. Separation is one way that could wake the addict up to the destructive problem he/she has.

 

Probably the biggest thing that stuck out for me was you saying that he's not capable right now of having a healthy relationship. I can't tell you how many times I've said the words, "I love you, but this isn't healthy; you/we need to get some help," only to have them fall on deaf ears. And I sometimes feel hypocritical saying it, because Lord knows how broken I was when I started therapy, and I try very hard NOT to come off as haughty for having taken that journey, because he always throws in my face, "You think you're so great after all that therapy stuff."

 

When people think you're being haughty, many times it can be because they feel like they are not like you and that you are trying to be "better" than them. It's weird but don't let it make you feel bad. It's awesome that you are growing and that you realize you are worthy of not being treated badly!!! That's very important for everyone's wellbeing, not just yours!

 

It's not fun to be depressed and allow people to treat you in a mean way. Instead, it's perfectly fine to rise above that and to promote a healthy and happy lifestyle that mutually benefits all people in the picture, including your kids who need to have healthy and strong role models. If he doesn't like it, that's his decision and you can most definitely decide to separate/divorce. It is not your fault that he doesn't want to make the relationship happy and healthy. Rather, it is his hard heart that doesn't want to grow in love, although you do want to grow in love and are trying to grow with him. However, just like the saying goes, "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink." Well, you can encourage your husband to get help along with you, but you can't force him. It's his decision.

 

Truth is, I am starting to feel much better -- not great, but better. I know how much of a difference it has made for me, and I can't imagine why he's so reluctant to go....except for that part about he doesn't like being told he has to change anything or have someone else tell him that his behavior might be a problem. So I think this is the biggest thing: I keep trying to have a healthy, adult relationship with someone who just isn't capable of it right now. He may never be, but we know he can't right now.

 

I'm so glad you're feeling better!!!! Please continue to grow and realize that you are a wonderful lady who has wonderful kids and that y'all need a healthy and safe and peaceful and loving and fun environment in which to thrive!!! :bunny:

 

I promise the kids and I are safe, though. We have a safe plan in place and my parents have been awesome in helping us set up everything we need to to make sure that no matter what happens the kids and I will be okay.

 

I'm so glad y'all are safe!!! That's super that your parents support y'all and are there for y'all!!! :love:

 

By the way, I divorced from my first husband. We both were immature and we both made many errors in our relationship. I don't think either he or I truly loved each other.

 

However, we both matured and even though we don't talk anymore, I know that he is married to a wonderful woman he loves and who loves him truly, and I am married to a wonderful man who I love and who loves me truly.

 

Marriage takes work on the part of both people of the relationship. My parents didn't approve of my first husband because they knew we would have many difficulties. They absolutely adore my husband now!!! When I was divorcing from my first husband, my parents supported me even though they don't believe in divorce. They saw things though that they believed was hurting me that my first husband did and they didn't want me to be trapped into the relationship. Some reasons why they adore my husband now is because they see that he respects and truly loves me, and does not treat me in ways that hurt me.

 

I know separation and divorce are much harder when children are involved. (I don't have kids yet) However, it's really important for your children to not be in a hurtful environment where they see a male adult yelling and screaming. They need to see adults who love each other and treat each other with respect and affection.

 

One of my good friends divorced after she saw her son hit her daughter. :( Both the kids had seen their Dad hit their Mom many times. :( The son learned that behavior from his Dad. That's when his Mom, who was staying in the marriage for moral obligations, decided that her children needed to be out of that toxic environment, since it was hurting them. She is now married to a wonderful man who would never in a million years hit her or verbally (which can be just as hurtful as physically) abuse her.

 

It's so important for everyone's mental health to not be in an abusive, negative, and yelling/screaming environment. It is so much healthier to be in a positive, loving, kind, and encouraging environment where love reigns!

[2sunny]

I've been in your shoes and ill tell you - divorcing after being married to a manipulating, controlling narcissist has been complete freedom!

 

I'm not anxious to commit to a full time man... It's freedom doing what I want, when I want, with who I want for as long as I want! No one to complain!

 

My exH overspent too! There is freedom and peace of mind in knowing I stay within MY budget!

 

He wants things a certain way? Tell him to leave and DO IT ALL for himself!

 

And I'd bet money your illnesses go away if you eliminate him. Physical ailments are mostly caused by emotions. Eastern medicine presents it all that way.

 

Eliminate the emotional turmoil - bang, the illness goes away!

Edited December 9, 2012 by 2sunny