Can a BS cause a WS to cheat?

[BetrayedH]

One of my wife's non-verbal cues about her dissatisfaction was to increase sex with me (during the entire year of her affair) to twice a week from once a month. I definitely should have understood how unhappy she was.

[2.50 a gallon]

My view is that quite often the BS actions plays a large role in pushing their spouses towards infidelity.

 

When reading the stories in the Separation and Divorce form and the numerous "How do I get My Wife Back" threads, it is true that a good percentage of us get blind sided, but there are also the threads of I didn't listen until it was too late. She has been trying to tell me for years that I don't pay enough attention to her, I spend too many hours gaming, or at work, etc.

[96nole]

Hmmmm...and was she already in the affair by then?

 

Because the more enmeshed my H became with his AP, the more miserable he seemingly grew with me.

 

Amazing how that works out, no?

Yep. And now that I know she was involved with him longer than I originally thought, it makes perfect sense.

 

In fact, she was off work that day and was with him all day long. They had dinner together that night and he prepped her up. Then she came home and just lit me up like it was the 4th of July.

[Mr. Lucky]

One of my wife's non-verbal cues about her dissatisfaction was to increase sex with me (during the entire year of her affair) to twice a week from once a month. I definitely should have understood how unhappy she was.

You're playing with fire here. Some of the sexless marriage posters may look towards spousal infidelity as a cure !!!

 

Mr. Lucky

[96nole]

As a BS, I don't condone or justify cheating. But that you would make that statement makes me wonder how realistic a view of your marriage you had ???

 

Mr. Lucky

As jja470 said, there is a big difference between a disagreement and a fight. At that point we had some disagreements, but nothing major. That night was a fight.

 

Knowing what I know now, I do have to wonder how realistic my view of the marriage was. But, how realistic can it be when there is nothing but lies for God knows how many years. There is no reality when one spouse is filling the marriage with lies.

[BetrayedH]

My view is that quite often the BS actions plays a large role in pushing their spouses towards infidelity.

 

When reading the stories in the Separation and Divorce form and the numerous "How do I get My Wife Back" threads, it is true that a good percentage of us get blind sided, but there are also the threads of I didn't listen until it was too late. She has been trying to tell me for years that I don't pay enough attention to her, I spend too many hours gaming, or at work, etc.

 

Sounds like those spouses had good reasons to...divorce.

[BetrayedH]

You're playing with fire here. Some of the sexless marriage posters may look towards spousal infidelity as a cure !!!

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You know, I thought we had finally made it through the woods. Without any verbal indications that anything was wrong, never arguing, good life for the kids and all, I thought we had it made.

[Realist3]

So in essence she's the cause as to why her controlling husband cheats.

 

 

I didn't say she was the cause, I just gave a background of the dymanics of the relationship and what could have caused the angst between the two. It is two-sided.

[BetrayedH]

Obviously you must have known the marriage was in serious trouble well prior to the affair based on only 1x/month sexual frequency. That's a more or less "sexless marriage."

 

Without in any way excusing your wife's affair, surely you knew your marriage was in big big trouble over an extended time period of time prior to the affair.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, what can you see that you did/didn't do, or your wife did/didn't do, that turned your marriage into a sexless one, prior to the affair?

 

Surely I knew that a sexless marriage was a problem.

 

It started right after we had our first child. My honest interpretation was that she had become a mother instead of a wife. I got the typical excuses about her just not having a sex drive, too tired, and so forth. I tried everything. She even took a medication for a short while to try to heighten her drive. I don't know what else to say, really. Certainly it was a problem but I did my best to be patient, take the pressure off, take ownership for my part of things (E.g. around the house), establish more of an emotional connection, initiate despite the risk of rejection. Nothing worked but I stayed married and faithful anyway. When the frequency increased, it appeared that she had just hit that late 30's increase that many women do. I figured my patience and efforts had paid off. I was obviously very wrong.

[Bittersweetie]

In MC, that my fWH insisted on as I was walking out the door, he learned it is not what you are getting from the marriage, it is what you are giving to it that can determine how happy you are in it.

 

I agree, and this reminds me of something I either read someplace, or heard from someone: In a marriage, you can either turn away from your spouse or turn toward your spouse. Turning away can open the door for someone else; turning toward each other strengthens the relationship.

[Realist3]

Unfortunately your argument doesn't really hold water generally speaking if you simply listen to the justifications that the cheaters themselves give for having their affairs. How many times do you hear "It just happened?" Or "S/he was my soulmate, I had to be with him/her, nothing could stop it"? Or some similar comment as the reason given by a cheater for having the affair.

 

How is it possible for the BS to cause the cheating spouse and their affair partner to be each other's "soulmate"? In any percentage?

 

You sure are making some illogical leaps with that post, sorry to say.

 

There can be a jillion different different justifications that cheaters give, and they may feal like they have met their soulmate, or they couldn't help it, or whatever. It doesn't change the basic premise!

 

I could still have met my soulmate in my AP, while my decision to run across her might have been issues with myself and the BS. Two completely unrelated issues.

[Realist3]

Not necessarily.

 

A MP who is just wanting more than ANY marriage could provide may very well find fault with any little thing their spouse does in a subconscious effort to manufacture a "reason" to feel vindicated in their behaviors.

 

Very well could be. There are endless possibilities, which is what I am saying. Ignoring that can be dymanics within the M that can cause decisions by the WS to have an A is certainly one of them.

 

Too often I read here from the longterm posters a desire to place situations in the box they so choose based on their prior experience. Just becasue it happened one such way for you personally or 100 times for someone else does not mean it is one-sized fit all. The rush to judgment, and the desire to place every scenario in that predisposed box is not always giving the best advice.

[Spark1111]

If it is really such a one-sided relationship then in some cases you might be looking at a co-dependent relationship. There can't be a perpetual taker without a willing perpetual giver. The key is to recognize that the person who is self-sacrificing, on the surface, is also deriving some kind of a benefit from the relationship, and at some point it leads to a dysfunctional situation.

 

Sometimes the person on the receiving end is just one kind-hearted person who took their vows seriously and really loved and supported their spouse, through good times and bad, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer.

 

Jeez, back to the sex again.

 

What if your spouse is ill? Or depressed? Not feeling especially sexual and it has nothing to do with you, per se?

 

it's dysfunctional to stay with them then? You would divorce over those conditions? or would you sacrifice some of your needs in the hopes it would improve?

 

if it doesn't improve, or you are reaching a deal-breaker, then it is time for a serious discussion and when that is may be different for each relationship.

[96nole]

OK I think your response about the dishes was exactly the wrong one.

 

Maybe you should have said "If I think the dishes need to be moved, then I'll move 'em. Even if we disagree about how to do the dishes, it's emotionally inappropriate for you to take it as some kind of personal insult."

 

In other words the "issue" is not your moving of dishes around, it's her completely inappropriate emotional response to an innocuous action on your part. Her attempt to lay a guilt trip on you simply for contributing to the house chores is also inappropriate. But your succumbing to her manipulation was also inappropriate. All it does is reinforce the manipulative behavior on her part.

 

Thus a perfect example of a possibly co-dependent relationship dynamic.

 

I'll bet if you thoughtfully looked back upon your entire relationship this example was just one of many in a long long line of similar co-dependent behavior.

 

I agree that is was an inappropriate response on her part. It was immature and childish.

 

But I disagree that I was succumbing to her manipulation. As far as I was concerned, it wasn't a big enough issue to fight or 'discuss' over. There are times to pick your battles, and I didn't think that was one of them. After all, it's just a couple of dishes. And there were other times I didn't care which way we went with something, I was happy with either decsion, so I let her decide whatever she wanted. I wouldn't call that co-dependent.

 

But there were times when I did hold my ground no matter what. Those were large dollar items that could have put us in a financial disadvantage. I wasn't going to change my stance and I explained why.

 

She wanted to get a new kitchen. I explained that we needed to do others things to the house first. She agreed and understood.

She wanted to get a dog. I didn't think it would have been a good idea for us for various reasons and I explained why.

 

After I moved out of the house, she moved back in and brought the dirtbag and his mother. I heard the first thing she did was get a puppy and put in new kitchen cabinets. Then I heard the puppy chewed up some of the new cabinets. The puppy then got into some paint, ate it, then threw it up all over the tile floor in the kitchen.

 

I have to admit, I laughed when I heard that.

[Spark1111]

Very well could be. There are endless possibilities, which is what I am saying. Ignoring that can be dymanics within the M that can cause decisions by the WS to have an A is certainly one of them.

 

Too often I read here from the longterm posters a desire to place situations in the box they so choose based on their prior experience. Just becasue it happened one such way for you personally or 100 times for someone else does not mean it is one-sized fit all. The rush to judgment, and the desire to place every scenario in that predisposed box is not always giving the best advice.

 

what makes you think that the myriad of posters here only form their opinions based on their situation alone?

 

many have read voraciously just about every book and article written by some very smart psychologists, anthropologists, evolutionary biologists on infidelity and it's causes in our effort to understand what happened in our lives.

 

No one is saying it is a one size fits all, but there are patterns that repeat over and over again, and I'm sorry to say many are NOT sympathetic to those who cheat rather than fixing and walking away.

 

it is a very destructive, both to self and others, means of coping poorly with relational issues.

[Furious]

Very well could be. There are endless possibilities, which is what I am saying. Ignoring that can be dymanics within the M that can cause decisions by the WS to have an A is certainly one of them.

 

Too often I read here from the longterm posters a desire to place situations in the box they so choose based on their prior experience. Just becasue it happened one such way for you personally or 100 times for someone else does not mean it is one-sized fit all. The rush to judgment, and the desire to place every scenario in that predisposed box is not always giving the best advice.

 

 

Some longtime posters are neutral and offer excellent advice. You have once again insulted many people here and you've been quick to rush to judgement, calling this forum a "victim sympathy forum". And when some people have

disagreed or have a different point of view you've many times lashed out and lumped all betrayed spouses as bitter.

 

Perhaps you believe your wife caused you to cheat, perhaps your OW cheated because her husband has been cheating on her for years and you are her revenge affair. It seems both you and the OW are content to be victims and

don't have the courage to divorce.

[Steen719]

The night before D-Day 1, the ex came home and we got into the first fight we ever had. Later that night she was on the phone with a friend of hers, I heard the ex say "I've been miserable for the past year". That was the very first time I was hearing about it.

 

96 - When I confronted my XH about his affair, he said he had been unhappy for 14 years, since his first affair because I never left it alone and brought it up all of the time. I told him that I didn't even remember her last name; that is how important she was to me. (I did not bring it up and oh, by the way, I have been a little busy taking care of you while you were almost dying, etc. to even think about that! - I didn't say this, but thought it). So I said "well, all I can say it that maybe you could have told me before I went to into so much debt over your illness and transplant and took care of you" and his response was, well, it has only been the last year, really. So, I said, "oh, while you were recovering from your transplant?"

 

You know, it was really interesting how his dissatisfaction with me rose with how intense his desire for his old gf was. What was OK before was no longer OK.

 

Quite honestly, I was not exactly thrilled with cleaning up crap, giving shots, giving IV meds, changing dressings, sitting day after day in the hospitals, taking care of everything in and out of the house, working all of the time to keep us out of bankruptcy, but you know what? I never even once entertained the thought that I wouldn't do it. I don't care if I wasn't perfect - who is? I damn sure tried and his record of being perfect was worse than mine. His choices, his character, his lies are his alone. If I somehow deserved this, it is beyond me to figure out how that is true.

[Realist3]

what makes you think that the myriad of posters here only form their opinions based on their situation alone?

 

many have read voraciously just about every book and article written by some very smart psychologists, anthropologists, evolutionary biologists on infidelity and it's causes in our effort to understand what happened in our lives.

 

No one is saying it is a one size fits all, but there are patterns that repeat over and over again, and I'm sorry to say many are NOT sympathetic to those who cheat rather than fixing and walking away.

 

it is a very destructive, both to self and others, means of coping poorly with relational issues.

 

I didn't say it was based on their situations alone. I'm sure there are some very well read posters here that offer advce on the subject. But I also realize that people that are well read on any given subject tend to read what comports with their held beliefs. I have quite a few subjects here I am very well read and have very lengthy discussions/debates on the subjects, but it doesn't mean that we are always right.

 

In regards to a subject as complex as the psychology of cheating and infideility the understanding, or expertise becomes even more challenging because of the number of outside influences that may affect the decision making process. Sure there are certain parameters that arise on a regular basis, but each situation is different, and any professional in the field will tell you so. They write books to inform people of the most basic understanding of the subject and to give a background of their experiences throughout their professional careers. But in no way, does that give someone carte blanche to suggest because they read this or that book to suggest that "this is the way you handle that."

Edited December 10, 2012 by Realist3

[Mr. Lucky]

After reading this thread, I've identified the role of sex both pre and post affair:

 

Before affair - spouse is willing sexual partner - suspicious uptick in sex indicates cheating.

 

- spouse withholds sex - lack of connection indicates cheating.

 

After affair - spouse is willing sexual partner - hysterical bonding, no remorse indicated.

 

- spouse withholds sex - lack of connection indicates no remorse.

 

Tough to base judgement on a single criteria...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Realist3]

After reading this thread, I've identified the role of sex both pre and post affair:

 

Before affair - spouse is willing sexual partner - suspicious uptick in sex indicates cheating.

 

- spouse withholds sex - lack of connection indicates cheating.

 

After affair - spouse is willing sexual partner - hysterical bonding, no remorse indicated.

 

- spouse withholds sex - lack of connection indicates no remorse.

 

Tough to base judgement on a single criteria...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

HA!!!! Anything can mean anything.

[96nole]

Were you aware that sometimes when people have very serious medical situations such as a heart attack, stroke, or organ transplant, it can cause a complete personality change and warp their thought processes permanently, even if there is no apparent brain damage?

 

If you think about what happens in an organ transplant, all the chaos being created in the body, it almost makes sense that maybe at some point the blood flow to critical parts of the brain might have been interrupted and caused some form of brain damage which is undetectable but leaves a lasting effect.

 

I agree with most of what you posted. The only thing as far as Steen's situation is that her husband also cheated many years earlier. Long before his transplant. I'm not saying that the transplant could not have any bearing on the second, but as proven in his past, it was not a complete personality change.

 

In the case of my ex, I often wondered if her health problems did lead to her actions. Her heart went into A-Fib many times. Thus oxygen was not properly reaching her brain. She passed out many times because of it. And a few times she did hit her head. Every time at the hospital they would do a scan to see if there was any damage to her head. None was found. Of course that doesn't mean there wasn't any damage done.

 

It does not excuse her actions. And luckily, it is no longer my problem.

[Steen719]

Were you aware that sometimes when people have very serious medical situations such as a heart attack, stroke, or organ transplant, it can cause a complete personality change and warp their thought processes permanently, even if there is no apparent brain damage?

 

If you think about what happens in an organ transplant, all the chaos being created in the body, it almost makes sense that maybe at some point the blood flow to critical parts of the brain might have been interrupted and caused some form of brain damage which is undetectable but leaves a lasting effect.

 

Thanks, Duck, but yeah, I lived it, studied it, arranged all of his medical care, went to all of the appointments, classes, etc, ad nauseum, was a medical social worker for 27 years working with people with chronic and acute medical conditions and I absolutely agree that there can be some changes. Unfortunately, his was more an exacerbation of his poor choices and poor boundaries that he had for years. And before you say that all of this doesn't mean I know it all, I agree, you are right, but this experience has taught me a lot from the other side of the story and I would bet I have a pretty good working knowledge of the issues that go along with this.

 

I will say this, though, I do blame myself for putting up with his crap for years. First of all, when he had his first affair, things were really good in our life, and by that I mean, good jobs, money, healthy & happy child, good sex life, etc. I should have known that he did that when things were good (well, in my eyes), that he might very well do it when there was a lot of stress.

 

Secondly, he blamed me for almost everything for our entire marriage. He complained about everything under the sun all of the time. I stopped listening and instead of just putting up with his crap, I should done something different. I have spent some time thinking about this and other things and I realize there were things that I could have, should have done better or differently. Living with it and ignoring it were easier and the years go by. That, I own. I made inadequate and incorrect choices.

 

But, I will not take responsibility for his selfish, self-centered choices which have made my life and my son's life go down paths that I wish we didn't have to travel. I'm sorry, but if you think there is a "reason" to lie to and cheat on someone who has had your back for 23 years instead of being honorable and honest and leaving your marriage by telling the truth, then you and I just disagree.

[Steen719]

I agree with most of what you posted. The only thing as far as Steen's situation is that her husband also cheated many years earlier. Long before his transplant. I'm not saying that the transplant could not have any bearing on the second, but as proven in his past, it was not a complete personality change.

 

In the case of my ex, I often wondered if her health problems did lead to her actions. Her heart went into A-Fib many times. Thus oxygen was not properly reaching her brain. She passed out many times because of it. And a few times she did hit her head. Every time at the hospital they would do a scan to see if there was any damage to her head. None was found. Of course that doesn't mean there wasn't any damage done.

 

It does not excuse her actions. And luckily, it is no longer my problem.

 

Time might tell, I guess, but trying to figure out why our spouses did things seems to be an exercise in futility and you know, now she is living the good life with her bf, his mom and their dog....bwahahahaha!!!

[96nole]

She told you she didn't want you changing the dishes after she'd put them in the dishwasher, her reasoning wasn't that your organizational dish skills were lacking in comparison to hers, it was that you made her feel emotionally bad. That's manipulation. By agreeing to never do it again, you succumbed to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought you said it was discussed in marital therapy. If it's brought up in therapy, then obviously someone thinks it's meaningful to discuss.

 

And you also brought it up right HERE. Do you understand that if you bring something up in one of these discussions it will be perceived as having been brought up because you believe it is in some way significant to your relationship? If not why bring it up? Is the light bulb starting to come on for you yet?

 

 

 

You just said it wasn't even anything to discuss over, now you're characterizing it as a "battle." It can't be a) trivial and yet b) a battle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you're battling about it with me instead of your wife. It's not just a couple of dishes. Not according to your wife. If it was just a couple of dishes that's exactly what you would have told your wife. "It's just a couple of dishes and I'll do as I please when I put the dishes away."

 

 

 

 

 

 

When did you decide that things would go your way? And got your wifee to get onboard with YOUR marital leadership? Ever? In your entire marriage?

 

THAT'S EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL GIVEN THAT YOU COULDN'T EVEN PUT A DISH IN THE DISHWASHER WITHOUT CATCHING IT FROM YOUR SPOUSE. AND YOU BACKED DOWN TO THAT ANYWAY.

 

Since you didn't want to fight the battle of the dishes, what battle in your marriage was ever significant for you to draw the line and fight over, and WIN? (Prior to the affair itself of course?)

 

 

 

 

Oh OK. So if you could win over the big issues assumign you had the logical position then why were you backing down over a couple of dishes? This makes no sense.

 

 

 

 

Well she sure showed you didn't she? She didn't get the new kitchen or the new dog, but she got a new man.

 

So no, you never really "won" those arguments at all. She pretended to agree with you but resented you.

 

REMEMBER THIS IS A WOMAN WHO PUT YOU THROUGH THE RINGER OVER A MISPLACED DISH. DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK SHE WOULD LET YOU GET AWAY WITH DEPRIVING HER OF A NEW KITCHEN AND A DOG WITHOUT GETTING HER POUND OF FLESH?

 

Actually it almost sounds like your wife has the mind of a little child. "I want my new kitchen Daddy!!!! Why can't I have a dog??? Waaahhhhhh".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a surprise.

 

Not.

 

So you didn't win those "battles", you lost them after all. It probably all started with the dishes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Puppies also pee and crap over everything too. I'm sure the OM's mom is quite pleased everytime she steps in a pile of puppy doo.

 

Goodness gracious Ducky, you spent more time writing that post than what was spent on the dishes.

 

The original point I was trying to make was that if she TOLD me something upset her, I would work with her. And she was surprised at how easy it was. I really wasn't some scary guy she couldn't talk to.

 

You can try to spin it however you want, but there are some things that are not worth a major discussion over. Like a couple of dishes. And certainly not worth BATTLING over.

 

And even you have to admit that you are really reaching if you are trying to equate her cheating because I "succumbed" to the dishes incident. I can't believe you would think she would not have cheated if I told her that I would do what I wanted with a couple of dishes.

 

Oh, and it couldn't have started with the dishes, she mentioned that after the first d-day.

[96nole]

Time might tell, I guess, but trying to figure out why our spouses did things seems to be an exercise in futility and you know, now she is living the good life with her bf, his mom and their dog....bwahahahaha!!!

Well, actually is her, him, mommy, maybe a pre-teenage boy, 2 dogs, 2 cats, and very soon (if not already) a new born baby.