Can a BS cause a WS to cheat?

[woinlove]

 

"If I accept that I caused, by my words/actions or omission of same in my marriage, my spouse to be unfaithful, how does that reflect upon myself? If I do not accept any causal responsibility, the same. How does that act reflect upon myself, my psychology, my mental and emotional health? What has my choice to accept or not accept causal responsibility caused?"

 

 

I would think this must come up a lot in so-called revenge affairs. Still, the BS who chooses to cheat is making that decision. They may never have cheated if the WS had not cheated first, but still, unlike many other BS, they chose to cheat. That is their own response.

 

The first WS may feel responsible and may feel it is just further consequence of their cheating. Still, the first WS had no control over their BS deciding to cheat in retaliation or whatever. I don't see anything much that can be gained by the first WS accepting responsibility, in whole or in part, for their BS cheating. Or from the BS blaming their cheating on the WS. Sounds like that would mess up both people even more and what the other did really wasn't under their control. I think each would come out healthier if they each accepted full responsibility for themselves and did not take on responsibility for their spouse's decision.

[nofool4u]

And yet the logical conclusion to your argument that cheaters cheat because of a character flaw leads to the conclusion that a flaw would cause them always to cheat.

 

No. Depends on what the flaw in a person's character is. If you have a character flaw that says, "my spouse is a boring f***, therefore I want to bone this other person", then THAT flaw causes them to cheat.

 

If their flaw is they like to abuse puppies, then I'd suppose they wouldn't also necessarily be a cheater.

 

 

It is due to a decision and not necessarily poor character.

 

A decision brought about by poor character. Sorry, betraying someone, lying, deceiving, hurting people is not good character.

 

 

 

Yes, perhaps...but not a flaw that defines them as always cheating in every relationship.

 

It sure will if they have an entitlement mentality where they go looking for sex elsewhere when things don't exactly go their way in the marriage.

 

But if it pleases you, they have poor character when they were in the cheater's seat, but maybe not so much later on. Hows that?

 

 

You made a good decision and not a bad one. This does not mean that you will make only good decisions and never bad ones.

 

What it says is if I have anything in my character that is not so great, then cheating wouldn't be it. I don't have the poor character of cheating and betraying a committed partner in mine.

 

 

And my answer is that in many cases, the bad marriages motivated the WS to decide to cheat.

 

So the marriage caused them to cheat.

 

This thread is about causes. If not that or anything else, what do YOU think CAUSED them to cheat. Or are you thinking there really isn't a causal part of it all?

[Decorative]

I knew I was doing it wrong. *slaps forehead*

 

I mean- we had sex all the time. We never argued about anything more important than how to load the dishes into the dishwasher ( his way is right, by the way). We laughed a lot. We went on trips. We had date nights. He was my favorite person to be around, and up until he met her- I was his.

 

And during the majority of his affair- up until the first DDay- I would challenge anyone in my position to have known he was cheating.

 

during the false recovery? Yes. In retrospect? Totally obvious.

 

But until that first DDay- when the OW's parents contacted me to tell me? No way.

 

But then again- the myth that cheating is either the betrayed apouse's fault or the marriage's fault is a necessary lie. People tell themselves that as a mental protection- a talisman that they can keep it from happening to them- controlling another person, so to speak, by just being good enough.

 

And stories like mine are scary. really scary. because they don't match that.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Decorative

[StoneCold]

ok....

 

so for 14 pages we were all going back and forth about who owns the decision to cheat.

 

Despite differences of opinions on what, if any part the BS plays..... We can all agree that the final decision to physically cheat is owned by the WS....it was their choice to ultimately make...obviously....and it seems like the point of this thread is to soley ascertain that and nothing else (judging from the tone/content)

 

 

so.......what?

 

 

What do you conclude as a BS? What does this obvious piece of information tell or do for you? I'm curious to know

[waterwoman]

I think the problem is with the word 'cause'. That implies passivity on the part of the WS- like a tree being blown in the wind. I give my H enough respect to believe he isn't merely a passive recipient of external influences.

 

I am aware our marriage wasn't in great shape - 50% my fault, hands up to that. I knew he was close to his assistant at work. Those were 2 simple facts. But he made a conscious decision to get too close to her and cross a boundary. I didn't 'cause' him to do that.

 

I'm past blaming anyone now. I've accepted our marriage was pretty sad at the time- I've acknowledged my part in that and am trying to change. However it's absurd to think you can treat an intelligent adult like a trained rat and say 'if you press this button, he'll go down this tunnel!'

[BetrayedH]

ok....

 

so for 14 pages we were all going back and forth about who owns the decision to cheat.

 

Despite differences of opinions on what, if any part the BS plays..... We can all agree that the final decision to physically cheat is owned by the WS....it was their choice to ultimately make...obviously....and it seems like the point of this thread is to soley ascertain that and nothing else (judging from the tone/content)

 

 

so.......what?

 

 

What do you conclude as a BS? What does this obvious piece of information tell or do for you? I'm curious to know

 

What gets under my skin is to see brand new betrayed spouses get told that they are to blame, that they caused the affair, that they made this happen. The person is suffering from a trauma and already blame themselves plenty. They don't need waywards here pointing out that there were marital difficulties they should have solved. Everyone is perfectly well aware of that, most painfully the BS. I did backflips to try to fix my part of things after Dday and during the period before Dday when I was gaslighted. Didn't work. Seven months of it and she was still a liar. That's because the real problem wasn't within me but within my WS. The problem that needed to be addressed was my WS's decision to drop a nuke on the family and while we had marital problems, we didn't need a nuke. Focusing on the marital problems does need to be done if a BS wants to reconcile but it's hardly the first thing that needs to be discussed. It's iust kicking a person when they are down.

[Realist3]

What gets under my skin is to see brand new betrayed spouses get told that they are to blame, that they caused the affair, that they made this happen. The person is suffering from a trauma and already blame themselves plenty. They don't need waywards here pointing out that there were marital difficulties they should have solved. Everyone is perfectly well aware of that, most painfully the BS. I did backflips to try to fix my part of things after Dday and during the period before Dday when I was gaslighted. Didn't work. Seven months of it and she was still a liar. That's because the real problem wasn't within me but within my WS. The problem that needed to be addressed was my WS's decision to drop a nuke on the family and while we had marital problems, we didn't need a nuke. Focusing on the marital problems does need to be done if a BS wants to reconcile but it's hardly the first thing that needs to be discussed. It's iust kicking a person when they are down.

 

 

I understand your POV, and I have not been around here all that long, but I rarely see a new BS get blamed. What I do see most often is a bunch of sometimes rash suggestions by other BS's, "You must do this or that, tell the other BS immediately, kick them out, etc." Many times they aren't even suggestions, but definitive statements of the only way to handle any given situation.

 

I think most would agree that making decisions about next steps after an eposed A is best done with a calm head, not in the throes of the emotional wreckage they have just been placed.

[waterwoman]

I think most would agree that making decisions about next steps after an eposed A is best done with a calm head, not in the throes of the emotional wreckage they have just been placed.

 

Agree with that. If it's possible. But there are times when I wish I had kicked H out on d-day - for my own self-esteem mainly. And so that I accepted I had choices rather than simply responding to his actions.

[Snowflower]

I understand your POV, and I have not been around here all that long, but I rarely see a new BS get blamed. What I do see most often is a bunch of sometimes rash suggestions by other BS's, "You must do this or that, tell the other BS immediately, kick them out, etc." Many times they aren't even suggestions, but definitive statements of the only way to handle any given situation.

 

But giving suggestions to a new BS isn't the same as the blame game!

 

But, I agree 100% with you...many of the suggestions here are rash. I often feel that the suggestions are what another BS who is posting would have liked to have happened in their own situation.

 

I'm one to counsel taking your time to decide if at all possible. Tell your WS what you require (NC with the AP, for example) and if your WS won't follow that, then you have your answer.

I think most would agree that making decisions about next steps after an eposed A is best done with a calm head, not in the throes of the emotional wreckage they have just been placed.

 

Again, I agree. I often say wait at least 6 months before making any major decisions and to just take care of yourself in the meantime. The only time I don't give this advice is if the WS is doing something detrimental to the security of the BS such as hiding finances, moving out of the marital home, filing for divorce, etc. Then the BS needs to take immediate steps to protect themselves because the marriage is ending.

[JamesM]

James, this isn't meant to be snarky but a legitimate question...

 

It took awhile. I expected this question back on the first page!

 

No, I don't take it as snarky and certainly not from you as such.

 

 

If you discovered that your wife has been cheating extensively for the past year or so, how much responsibility for her cheating would you assume?

 

I have thought many times about exactly this. If I am missing the physical, then is she missing something that causes her not to enjoy the physical? And since I know that the emotional connection is very important to her, is that why she cannot connect physically?

 

I would take responsibility for the fact that we may have been distant emotionally. This is a real problem or rather was in the past more so than now. Because we physically did not connect, I pulled back emotionally. This catch 22 was a topic of many PMs with some members here (and some who have posted on this thread). By her not having sex, is my pulling back making it worse? Is her not wanting sex actually because of me not being close enough emotionally? I would be mad, sad, depressed, etc. but inside I would know that the only way she would ever stray is because she felt disconnected emotionally from me.

 

Hence, why a couple of months ago, I decided to do what I could to bring that connection back despite our lack of sex. And someday, if this proves to be more than a blip, I will make a thread of how things are much better now.

 

(Knowing her, I do know that she would let me know that she is losing or has lost the connection...as she has done. If this scenario of her cheating is real, then it would have been about seven years ago before I joined LS. I remember that year as being our worst. This would have been the time that she could have had an affair, but IF she did, I truly think it was an emotional one and not physical.)

 

Would you be here talking about your role in marital problems or do you think you would be expecting her to be accountable for that choice?

 

Yes to both. I would be very angry as you and others were. I would be venting about how I tried everything to get sex and yet she got it elsewhere. And I would still know and realize that the only way she would have strayed is due to a lack of emotional connection with me. Our friendship means everything to her. I am her rock, etc. To emotionally confide in another would bother HER more than it would bother me.

 

Please take a moment to consider the amount of out-and-out lying and gaslighting that she would have done in order to keep you off the trail. Imagine her in the throes of sex with some dirtbag while you have been in a low-sex marriage and trying to make it work all this time.

 

Over the past ten years, I have wondered if there was an affair that caused her to feel less interested in sex. And after many conversations with different posters here and over analyzing her comments and actions, I am more sure that she hasn't had one. Yet I would never say never. Knowing that it is possible that she lied for many years, I can say that it would hurt deeply. I don't doubt that I would be furious. And I do believe that she would need to take half of the blame at least.

 

The thing is that while I thought I was doing the right thing, I can see even looking back now that she could interpret it as simply wanting sex and not caring about her. It doesn't matter if she were in the arms of another man or woman, I know I would be furious. Yet I know that inwardly I would blame myself for not doing the RIGHT thing to connect.

 

Yes, I mean what I said.

 

I tend to think that you might be insulted at the inference that you somehow caused her to go get her needs met elsewhere after all of the efforts you have made.

 

After this long, I know that the needs she would have gotten met elsewhere would have been emotional. It would not be for sex that she strayed. Sex may have become part of an affair, but that would not be the need she sought.

 

No, I would not be insulted. I would be mad that after all that I did, she had sex with someone else...no question at all. But I do not think I could ever consider her actions a character flaw that stayed hidden for this many years...unless it was a continual string of affairs.

 

I think you make legitimate attempts to put yourself in the shoes of others and I admire empathy but truly, if you found that out today, would you be here arguing the case that you were somehow responsible for her decision (asking us what you should have done to improve the marriage) or would you find that to be blameshifting?

 

I agree that my position would be different because I would have experienced the pain of being betrayed. I know that and do not try to say differently. Oddly though, I do think I would ask what I did wrong. I would not suddenly say it is all of her fault that our marriage is broken. But not having been there and hoping I won't, I can never say never.

 

As for blame shifting...when I say that both people must take responsibility, I don't say that the BS needs to take all of the blame or perhaps not even half of the blame. What I do say is that in order for the BS to truly get a hold of what happened, he or she needs to look introspectively and say, "How am I a part of this broken marriage, and what can I do to prevent it from happening to ME again..whether in this marriage or another?"

[Decorative]

Ah- but see- you cannot prevent another person from cheating on you. We do not have that much control over another person.

 

It is our responsibility as humans, and as people in an intimate relationship to treat others with love and respect , and treat them as we wish to be treated.

 

But nothing we do can stop another person from making their own decisions.

 

And you know what ? That's the lesson I learned in recovery after my spouse's affair. That I cannot love him into making the right decisions. He has to choose those for himself, and be healthy enough inside to do it. And I have to be healthy enough on my inside to let go of the idea that my love could have acted like a balm against what was wrong inside of him.

 

Because it doesn't work that way.

 

It took awhile. I expected this question back on the first page!

 

No, I don't take it as snarky and certainly not from you as such.

 

 

 

 

I have thought many times about exactly this. If I am missing the physical, then is she missing something that causes her not to enjoy the physical? And since I know that the emotional connection is very important to her, is that why she cannot connect physically?

 

I would take responsibility for the fact that we may have been distant emotionally. This is a real problem or rather was in the past more so than now. Because we physically did not connect, I pulled back emotionally. This catch 22 was a topic of many PMs with some members here (and some who have posted on this thread). By her not having sex, is my pulling back making it worse? Is her not wanting sex actually because of me not being close enough emotionally? I would be mad, sad, depressed, etc. but inside I would know that the only way she would ever stray is because she felt disconnected emotionally from me.

 

Hence, why a couple of months ago, I decided to do what I could to bring that connection back despite our lack of sex. And someday, if this proves to be more than a blip, I will make a thread of how things are much better now.

 

(Knowing her, I do know that she would let me know that she is losing or has lost the connection...as she has done. If this scenario of her cheating is real, then it would have been about seven years ago before I joined LS. I remember that year as being our worst. This would have been the time that she could have had an affair, but IF she did, I truly think it was an emotional one and not physical.)

 

 

 

Yes to both. I would be very angry as you and others were. I would be venting about how I tried everything to get sex and yet she got it elsewhere. And I would still know and realize that the only way she would have strayed is due to a lack of emotional connection with me. Our friendship means everything to her. I am her rock, etc. To emotionally confide in another would bother HER more than it would bother me.

 

 

 

Over the past ten years, I have wondered if there was an affair that caused her to feel less interested in sex. And after many conversations with different posters here and over analyzing her comments and actions, I am more sure that she hasn't had one. Yet I would never say never. Knowing that it is possible that she lied for many years, I can say that it would hurt deeply. I don't doubt that I would be furious. And I do believe that she would need to take half of the blame at least.

 

The thing is that while I thought I was doing the right thing, I can see even looking back now that she could interpret it as simply wanting sex and not caring about her. It doesn't matter if she were in the arms of another man or woman, I know I would be furious. Yet I know that inwardly I would blame myself for not doing the RIGHT thing to connect.

 

Yes, I mean what I said.

 

 

 

After this long, I know that the needs she would have gotten met elsewhere would have been emotional. It would not be for sex that she strayed. Sex may have become part of an affair, but that would not be the need she sought.

 

No, I would not be insulted. I would be mad that after all that I did, she had sex with someone else...no question at all. But I do not think I could ever consider her actions a character flaw that stayed hidden for this many years...unless it was a continual string of affairs.

 

 

 

I agree that my position would be different because I would have experienced the pain of being betrayed. I know that and do not try to say differently. Oddly though, I do think I would ask what I did wrong. I would not suddenly say it is all of her fault that our marriage is broken. But not having been there and hoping I won't, I can never say never.

 

As for blame shifting...when I say that both people must take responsibility, I don't say that the BS needs to take all of the blame or perhaps not even half of the blame. What I do say is that in order for the BS to truly get a hold of what happened, he or she needs to look introspectively and say, "How am I a part of this broken marriage, and what can I do to prevent it from happening to ME again..whether in this marriage or another?"

[JamesM]

A decision brought about by poor character. Sorry, betraying someone, lying, deceiving, hurting people is not good character.

 

Sorry...none of us have such a great character that we will not cheat, steal, or lie in some fashion to someone.

 

It sure will if they have an entitlement mentality where they go looking for sex elsewhere when things don't exactly go their way in the marriage.

 

Why is it an entitlement mentality if the partner has no interest in recognizing the problems or minimizing the problems? Why is "looking for sex elsewhere" any worse than forcing someone to live in a situation that is miserable to them?

 

There is no question that we all have "character flaws." I simply say that we all can do what the other does. Who is to say that you do not have the same "character flaw" just because it has not shown itself yet?

 

This thread is about causes. If not that or anything else, what do YOU think CAUSED them to cheat. Or are you thinking there really isn't a causal part of it all?

 

There are many factors that can cause someone to decide to cheat. They certainly are responsible for their decision to cheat. No question. They certainly did the wrong thing. The question is...did that choice happen in a vacuum? Would they have cheated no matter how good their marriage was? Would they have cheated even if they were completely happy in their marriage?

 

In some cases, yes. In others, no.

 

We as married people mus realize that marriage takes alot of work. It is not easy. And good people fail at making marriage work. And sometimes the consequences are painful. Good people decide to cheat and they cause great pain to themselves and others.

 

BTW, if people have character flaws that cause them to cheat, then there must also be a character flaw that causes people to choose people with the character flaw to cheat.

 

Cause and effect. Responsibility and accountability. It is not black and white.

[JamesM]

What gets under my skin is to see brand new betrayed spouses get told that they are to blame, that they caused the affair, that they made this happen. The person is suffering from a trauma and already blame themselves plenty. They don't need waywards here pointing out that there were marital difficulties they should have solved. Everyone is perfectly well aware of that, most painfully the BS. I did backflips to try to fix my part of things after Dday and during the period before Dday when I was gaslighted. Didn't work. Seven months of it and she was still a liar. That's because the real problem wasn't within me but within my WS. The problem that needed to be addressed was my WS's decision to drop a nuke on the family and while we had marital problems, we didn't need a nuke. Focusing on the marital problems does need to be done if a BS wants to reconcile but it's hardly the first thing that needs to be discussed. It's iust kicking a person when they are down.

 

Well said, and I agree.

 

What I see too often on here is the mentality that "it is not my fault that he or she cheated. It is a character flaw and only her problem. If she hadn't cheated, then we could have been happy." End of story.

 

And what you said doesn't reflect that. Your comments say, "I am responsible and share the blame, but you don't need to tell me right now. Instead what I need is support and understanding for the pain I am enduring after she made reconciliation very difficult or impossible."

 

This is a completely different attitude and one that is much more emotionally healing in the long run.

 

There were two problems in your (and many) marriage...the ones that needed fixing and the ones in her that needed fixing. There may also have been the ones in you that needed fixing. But what made it all a different "ball games" is when her problems made the other ones unsolvable.

 

Again, I do feel for your pain, and hear your anger often. I haven't been in your shoes and apologize for anything that I say which sounds callous or cruel. It really is not my intentions to be that way. Please forgive anything said amiss.

[Snowflower]

Ah- but see- you cannot prevent another person from cheating on you. We do not have that much control over another person.

 

It is our responsibility as humans, and as people in an intimate relationship to treat others with love and respect , and treat them as we wish to be treated.

 

But nothing we do can stop another person from making their own decisions.

 

And you know what ? That's the lesson I learned in recovery after my spouse's affair. That I cannot love him into making the right decisions. He has to choose those for himself, and be healthy enough inside to do it. And I have to be healthy enough on my inside to let go of the idea that my love could have acted like a balm against what was wrong inside of him.

 

Because it doesn't work that way.

 

This is truly it. ^^^^

 

Blaming the WS (or the BS) accomplishes little. This ties into my earlier post on this thread. For example, after d-day you can insist that your WS go NC with their AP. It is a perfectly reasonable request on your part as a BS. and absolutely necessary for reconciliation to occur.

 

However, the WS has to want to/be willing to do this. Trying to somehow make your WS do something (such as NC), or trying to love them enough to be faithful, or whatever you are trying to get your WS to do/stop doing never ultimately works. It has to come from inside the WS themselves and if they cannot/will not do this for you, then unfortunately you have your answer as a BS.

 

I think this is why BS who manage to be strong enough to say at d-day, hey, go be with your AP since you have destroyed our marriage to have a relationship with this person, ultimately have a better chance of saving the marriage.

 

Playing the blame game and being uber-controlling BS's such as trying to force the WS into NC, spying on the WS, etc., will never, ever work in the long run. You might as well kiss your WS and your marriage good-bye.

[JamesM]

I think the problem is with the word 'cause'. That implies passivity on the part of the WS- like a tree being blown in the wind.

 

I hear your pain, waterwoman. You are not to blame for the decision he made. And to say that cause implies that you are all to blame is not what I have ever meant to say.

 

When I say cause, I simply mean that a bad marriage provides the motivation or reason for someone to decide to cheat. And for many who choose an affair, it was not a "Today I am going to cheat" decision. It was allowing themselves to take just one step towards that affair and then another and then another until there was only one more little step to having intercourse.

 

This is why I have no problem saying that I must try to prevent that first step. This is why (while I know that I cannot control another's decisions) I must make it very unattractive for my wife to want to cheat. This is why I must prevent myself from wanting to cheat.

 

And yet, I know that all relationships are risky.

[woinlove]

Why is "looking for sex elsewhere" any worse than forcing someone to live in a situation that is miserable to them?

 

 

The key word in your sentence is force. If one is honest and open, then the other spouse can decide whether to live with that, try to change the situation, or divorce. The deception of cheating removes the choice, trying to make the other spouse believe a false reality so that they can not make informed choices.

 

I can imagine other situations of such deception and removal of choice, for example a spouse who secretly moves substantial financial assets, stealing from the other spouse without their knowledge, or who secretly works to alienate the children from the other parent, etc. All these situations are horrible, all involve one spouse being willing to be repeatedly deceptive in substantial ways, in order to remove the informed choice from the other spouse.

 

Most of the excuses we hear on LS for cheating do not involve such deception and are often things that are out in the open and the WS could have responded in multiple ways, since they knew what was going on. They choose deception rather than a more constructive and ethical approach.

 

As to the rest of your post, James, some of it reads like many people behave poorly, so why expect or strive for better behavior. I think that is a sad outlook. We should each aspire to be the kind of person we want to be.

[Realist3]

But giving suggestions to a new BS isn't the same as the blame game!

 

But, I agree 100% with you...many of the suggestions here are rash. I often feel that the suggestions are what another BS who is posting would have liked to have happened in their own situation.

 

I'm one to counsel taking your time to decide if at all possible. Tell your WS what you require (NC with the AP, for example) and if your WS won't follow that, then you have your answer.

 

 

Again, I agree. I often say wait at least 6 months before making any major decisions and to just take care of yourself in the meantime. The only time I don't give this advice is if the WS is doing something detrimental to the security of the BS such as hiding finances, moving out of the marital home, filing for divorce, etc. Then the BS needs to take immediate steps to protect themselves because the marriage is ending.

 

 

Good post.

[JamesM]

Ah- but see- you cannot prevent another person from cheating on you. We do not have that much control over another person.

 

 

Ah...that I know. All you can do is make it very unattractive for them to cheat. Some people will still cheat even if they are in a happy marriage, but it is much less likely.

 

It is our responsibility as humans, and as people in an intimate relationship to treat others with love and respect , and treat them as we wish to be treated.

 

But nothing we do can stop another person from making their own decisions.

 

Correct. All relationships are risky. No amount of prevention will take all of that away. And life happens.

 

And you know what ? That's the lesson I learned in recovery after my spouse's affair. That I cannot love him into making the right decisions. He has to choose those for himself, and be healthy enough inside to do it. And I have to be healthy enough on my inside to let go of the idea that my love could have acted like a balm against what was wrong inside of him.

 

Because it doesn't work that way.

 

 

This is true.

 

And yet...said kindly...we must also look within to see what we could have done differently only if it is to make our future relationships better.

 

I am well aware that I have personally not dealt with the pain. I don't know how I would react. And I hope nothing is perceived as being cruelly said. Yet I know enough about marriage to say that many affairs can be prevented if the emotional or physical connection is there. And when there are marital problems, then they must be focused on without mercy until they are solved. Having said that, I know it is never as simple as it sounds. Life happens. We get busy. We don't realize there is a problem until it slams us in the face with its reality.

 

For the sake of my children and the sake of my wife, I will still do all in my power to keep us together.

 

From what I know, I believe that one spouse can provide motive for the affair of the other. But I also know that one spouse can revive a marriage and quite probably prevent it from breaking.

[frozensprouts]

This is truly it. ^^^^

 

Blaming the WS (or the BS) accomplishes little. This ties into my earlier post on this thread. For example, after d-day you can insist that your WS go NC with their AP. It is a perfectly reasonable request on your part as a BS. and absolutely necessary for reconciliation to occur.

 

However, the WS has to want to/be willing to do this. Trying to somehow make your WS do something (such as NC), or trying to love them enough to be faithful, or whatever you are trying to get your WS to do/stop doing never ultimately works. It has to come from inside the WS themselves and if they cannot/will not do this for you, then unfortunately you have your answer as a BS.

 

I think this is why BS who manage to be strong enough to say at d-day, hey, go be with your AP since you have destroyed our marriage to have a relationship with this person, ultimately have a better chance of saving the marriage.

 

Playing the blame game and being uber-controlling BS's such as trying to force the WS into NC, spying on the WS, etc., will never, ever work in the long run. You might as well kiss your WS and your marriage good-bye.

 

 

this makes a lot of sense...

 

my husband had to keep working with his ex-other woman, and while I hated that a first, since there was nothing I could do about it, I had to accept it. He would tell me every day if they spoke to each other, etc., but after a while, it didn't matter so much anymore. Eventually, he got posted to a different unit, and they haven't had any contact since.

 

In the end, I learned to trust him, and really, if I couldn't trust him there, where could I trust him? It had to start somewhere....

[Decorative]

Ah...that I know. All you can do is make it very unattractive for them to cheat. Some people will still cheat even if they are in a happy marriage, but it is much less likely.

 

 

 

Correct. All relationships are risky. No amount of prevention will take all of that away. And life happens.

 

 

 

 

This is true.

 

And yet...said kindly...we must also look within to see what we could have done differently only if it is to make our future relationships better.

 

 

.

 

If you read what I stated earlier- you'll see that I did see what I could have done differently. The answer? Surprisingly? Less. But there is still no innoculation against cheating in a marriage. We cannot control other people. We can only control ourselves. Period. It's a false security to think otherwise.

 

You need to read about overbenefitted partners in marriages ( Pittmman, Glass or Fisher are all great places to start for information on that). The partner giving less to the relationship is far more likely to cheat. Amazing, right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I also know that one spouse can revive a marriage and quite probably prevent it from breaking

 

You don't know how much I wish the above had been true.

 

But you will find too many gaslighted spouses, tying themselves into pretty pretzels, trying to do just that- to no avail.

 

But I really wish that was the case.

[Decorative]

Could it be that groundwork is being laid for absolution for an act being considered but not yet completed?

 

Thinking of the entirety of postings, that is what I am seeing, as well.

[JamesM]

No one can be forced to remain married.

 

Agreed.

[BetrayedH]

Well said, and I agree.

 

What I see too often on here is the mentality that "it is not my fault that he or she cheated. It is a character flaw and only her problem. If she hadn't cheated, then we could have been happy." End of story.

 

And what you said doesn't reflect that. Your comments say, "I am responsible and share the blame, but you don't need to tell me right now. Instead what I need is support and understanding for the pain I am enduring after she made reconciliation very difficult or impossible."

 

This is a completely different attitude and one that is much more emotionally healing in the long run.

 

There were two problems in your (and many) marriage...the ones that needed fixing and the ones in her that needed fixing. There may also have been the ones in you that needed fixing. But what made it all a different "ball games" is when her problems made the other ones unsolvable.

 

Again, I do feel for your pain, and hear your anger often. I haven't been in your shoes and apologize for anything that I say which sounds callous or cruel. It really is not my intentions to be that way. Please forgive anything said amiss.

 

You're not the least bit callous, James. No worries.

 

As for your other post, I appreciate the response and figured you had done such introspection already. Honestly, I feel I would have written it word for word...two years ago. I think the difference is that it's not hypothetical to me. Being "furious" doesn't scratch the surface.

 

I was in the same marriage as my wife. I worked hard to restore an emotional and physical connection. She was booking hotels and arranging a threesome with a prostitute and her OM. There is a difference between her character and mine and that fact is MUCH more significant than what was going on in our marriage.

 

In the immediate aftermath post Dday, far too many BSs are concerned with what they could've/should've done when what they need to be facing is what a liar and cheat they have on their hands. As has been said recently, perhaps the best response is not to sympathize with the poor cheater's marital woes, but to strengthen the resolve of the BS to kick them the hell out of the house, file for divorce, and then see if the wayward is willing to own THEIR part of the biggest problem, which was their disastrous choice to lie and cheat. For someone like Ray, he doesn't need to hear what blame he has for his wife's affair; he needs to hear that he can go ahead and burn the damn hutch because once she heard it was a trigger for him, she should have gotten rid of it herself. In the immediate aftermath of Dday, the decision to have the affair (and similar post Dday crap like basic insensitivity, TT, refusal to discuss the affair, refusal of counseling and so forth) is what needs to be addressed and all of that lies within the wayward. It is folly to focus on the BSs marital imperfections after Dday, it's hurtful to stress it to someone that can barely stop crying, and it's absolutely counter-productive.

[JamesM]

Could it be that groundwork is being laid for absolution for an act being considered but not yet completed?

 

Feel free to explain this cryptic comment.

 

Thinking of the entirety of postings, that is what I am seeing, as well.

 

Help me see what you see.

[StoneCold]

What gets under my skin is to see brand new betrayed spouses get told that they are to blame, that they caused the affair, that they made this happen.

 

The person is suffering from a trauma and already blame themselves plenty. They don't need waywards here pointing out that there were marital difficulties they should have solved. Everyone is perfectly well aware of that, most painfully the BS. I did backflips to try to fix my part of things after Dday and during the period before Dday when I was gaslighted. Didn't work. Seven months of it and she was still a liar. That's because the real problem wasn't within me but within my WS. The problem that needed to be addressed was my WS's decision to drop a nuke on the family and while we had marital problems, we didn't need a nuke. Focusing on the marital problems does need to be done if a BS wants to reconcile but it's hardly the first thing that needs to be discussed. It's iust kicking a person when they are down.

 

 

BH that to me is no different than many WSs who have come here for advice (huge mistake)and then the BSs ....who really dont know this persons situation....start jumping all over the person with all kinds of interesting half caulked labels and lines...... "its ALL your fault", "You killed the marriage".....lol....same crap different pile

 

It goes both ways...

 

Funny how people here can see the same thing (essentially) one way but not another...

 

You've told me what irks you...but you still havent told me what you conclude from this? what you take from this? I'm still lost...

 

is it that you beleive that because the WS decided to cheat they never make an effort to address the problems in the marriage??...so WSs dont make an effort to address the problem?? Is that it??

 

If not please tell me