"Forgave" and OW1 angry, OW2 denied - Huh?

[Older 'n' wiser]

This is a question about why in the hell the OW (or OM if it's universal) would be angry at or hate the faithful spouse? I really don't understand this. I've been through MC and still struggling with reconciliation. Being older (though not necessarily wiser), the decision to keep trying was complicated but still in effect.

 

There were three affairs. All three were disclosed within the past 6 months.

• A1 was within a year of our marriage many, many moons ago. It lasted a couple of months and was a full-tilt sexual affair.
  
• A2 was about 20 years later, an emotional affair with a mutual friend. It lasted a couple of months and involved heavy petting above the waist.
  
• A2, the most recent, was a longer emotional affair (2-3 years) with 3-4 incidents of oral sex. The OW was a family member.
  

 

Beyond this explanation, I'm not posting to talk or judge about H's honesty, what we have been through, where we're going or whether we should. This is a genuine question about the OW's behavior and feelings. I'd like to understand.

 

This is regarding my encounters with OW1 and OW2. They were angry and mean to me. Why? The MC said about one conversation I had with OW2, the family member, to remember that she is defensive. I still don't understand and will explain in more detail the encounters.

 

OW1:

3 phone calls and a few emails following D-day. In the first phone call, she was silent, asked after H and said she was "so sorry" without saying for what. Then, she sent a 3x5 card asking for forgiveness, saying, "It was mutual. We were needy. Please forgive me." 2nd phone call, I told her that I forgave her. She was all over the place emotionally - angry at me for letting it happen, crying "What about me?" and insulting me.

 

OW2: This just happened tonight.

This affair was 20 years ago. (Yes, we are that old but the dynamics don't really change.) I finally found myself alone with her and said that I wanted to tell her that I knew and that I forgave her. She said she did not know what I was talking about, did not want to hear H's name in her house and I should leave.

 

I am quite clueless about this ("Older 'n' wiser" is really hoping to be wiser before it's too late). I have been too trusting obviously. I simply don't lie or cheat; it's too complicated. I am known for being gullible, simple and easily tricked. Knowing that I am seen this way does not change the fact or enable me to change. I have just lost a lifetime of choices due to this innocence and lack of duplicity, so, believe me, I am not bragging. I can't help it and couldn't change it if I tried. OW1 and 2 know all this about me.

 

I was wronged. I suffered greatly during the past 6 months. These women and my H wronged me. I do understand that it was about them and not about me, but the fact remains - I was the victim. So why - WHY? - would they be angry?

 

I would be interested in explanations from experience. Thanks.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Older 'n' wiser

[Older 'n' wiser]

That's a good question Older.

 

I think many times OW hear those things and get so angry that "she" got the guy and they just get the snippets of time. They may wonder why she deserves such a great guy when she treats him so poorly.

 

I think many of the OW who feel that way are being bamboozled by the MM. They are believing "everything" he says, because why oh why would he lie?

 

Lots of women are nurturers. We comfort, we do what we can to help others, we like 'taking care of' someone. Doesn't mean we aren't strong or independent. Most women have a compassionate heart and don't like hearing of anyone hurting.

 

And men know this. And those men who cheat play on women's emotions and our need to nurture.

 

I have never understood why so many OW trash talk the wife the way they do. I have seen things on the internet where an OW bashes the wife horrendously - it is almost as if they are so pissed that the wife "has" the guy (as in being married, has the house, the money, etc) that she has to say such hateful mean things in order to help her possible guilt or to outshine the wife. I don't get it. I would think they would hate the guy who uses them as an option and makes the wife the priority (keeping the affair a secret so his wife isn't hurt, making sure his wife doesn't find out, only talks to the OW during 'working' hours or when he won't get caught so the wife doesn't find out, etc).

 

I think some of this rings true here:

As for OW1, she definitely hates H. Maybe she does see him as "the guy who [used her] as an option." She is a nurturer who couldn't have children and loved ours, and he would most assuredly have touched her "emotions and ... need to nurture." She may feel like she was "bamboozled by the MM ... believing "everything" he says, because why oh why would he lie?" So I'm thinking with her maybe, it's a matter of shame and denial. She doesn't want to be blamed and hates him instead because she wouldn't even acknowledge that it happened. (And I can't imagine why he would make it up.) Perhaps she hasn't thought about my being hurt since I just walked in after 20 years and announced that I was forgiving her. She had definitely thought about how much she hates H, however, and did not appreciate my 'accusation' (which she denied and threw me out).

 

For OW2 also, there was a lot of confusion and accusation. The first time we spoke, 1 mo. after D-day, she said first thing, "If you're going to vent and rage, I can't talk to you." I was still in shock and barely able to talk, much less "vent and rage." She had tremendous shame. There had been a lot of absurd, euphemistic crap at first about their 90% friendship (100% bull****). He had 'saved' her; she couldn't have made it through her life losses without him; he was so kind, gentle, giving, caring of her and her family. And so an email I'd sent with the ungarnished truth - simple words like adultery, deception, betrayal and nothing untrue or derogatory - she later referred to as vicious. When she did acknowledge my pain,, she started crying and repeating, "What about me?"

 

Can it be mainly the shame? Does defensiveness mean that they're going to be angrier? I just don't understand why they see me as threatening?

[veryhappy]

You are digging things that happened a lifetime ago. It could be as simple as these women not wanting to go back to that time. You force some strong emotions on them that they've already processed and hoped it was history.

 

There's no reason to continue the conversation to either of them. In my case I always knew I'd never want to talk with BW, so if she contacted mr, she'd get little to nothing simply because I do not see any point.

 

You also offered forgiveness, which is very noble of you, but can also sound like "oh I'm so mih better and moral and I forgive you". This comes on an already played dynamic of " the W is so much better".

 

There are many crazy things BWs write about OW too. In the end, does it matter? You'll have all your answers in your H.

[veryhappy]

I didn't mean to sound angry, and if I did it has to do more with how I'm feeling today in my life, then it being a reaction to this post. I'm cold and it makes me cranky lol.

 

What hurt the most in the OP message is her feeling of being robbed the option to choose all those years ago, although as we know her choice 2 out of 3 would have been to reconcile.

 

OP, what I wanted to say is that fOW, especially ones that end up feeling discarded/lied to fill in the blanks have a lot of anger. I've been so angry for the past 3 months of my life, exMM should be happy we don't cross paths because I don't guarantee the outcome. The responses you're trying to understand may not have much to do with you. The anger could be actually directed at your H, and the denial is simply not wanting to go through the process. I can tell you that when I had negative feelings towards BW they were misplaced. In time, they are all on exMM shoulders. Try to see their reaction as one to him, and less to none to you.

[Older 'n' wiser]

The LTA with OW2 was from 2009 to May 2012. Pretty recent.

[veryhappy]

Oh he's a peach. Don't you have any revenge fantasies? How old is he running around with a flutter in his belly?

 

I'd guess then that the family member response was denial because family is involved. She's afraid things will get out of control. Family situations might be the very worst to deal with. What was he thinking?

[Older 'n' wiser]

What hurt the most in the OP message is her feeling of being robbed the option to choose all those years ago, although as we know her choice 2 out of 3 would have been to reconcile.

 

Nobody should get to assume what the choice would have been. It's about having been excluded. There was a secret between you and it was decided for me whether or not I should know and what I would choose. That gives you and him all the power and me, none. That's what the "option to choose" is about.

 

OP, what I wanted to say is that fOW, especially ones that end up feeling discarded/lied to fill in the blanks have a lot of anger. I've been so angry for the past 3 months of my life, exMM should be happy we don't cross paths because I don't guarantee the outcome. The responses you're trying to understand may not have much to do with you. The anger could be actually directed at your H, and the denial is simply not wanting to go through the process. I can tell you that when I had negative feelings towards BW they were misplaced. In time, they are all on exMM shoulders. Try to see their reaction as one to him, and less to none to you.

 

Yes, I think that is it right there, cd. OW1 threw me out, said she didn't want to hear his name in her house. OW2 blamed him on the phone and pitied me for living with his philandering ways all those years. They felt used and sullied, which they were, but they were right in there with him. That is what OW2 admitted in her note: "It was mutual." I just don't understand the emotional denial. If the facts are there and everyone agrees that it happened, it was two people participating consensually and it was wrong, then what is the pretense that it was something else and that they can be angry at the victim?

[2sunny]

When they act angry with you - it helps them to continue concealing their truth.

 

By throwing their anger out there - it's a gas lighting tactic that makes your head spin - and they never really answer the question or respond honestly to what was stated.

 

It's a huge manipulative tactic.

[Older 'n' wiser]

You are digging things that happened a lifetime ago. It could be as simple as these women not wanting to go back to that time. You force some strong emotions on them that they've already processed and hoped it was history. There's no reason to continue the conversation to either of them. In my case I always knew I'd never want to talk with BW, so if she contacted mr, she'd get little to nothing simply because I do not see any point. You also offered forgiveness, which is very noble of you, but can also sound like "oh I'm so mih better and moral and I forgive you". This comes on an already played dynamic of " the W is so much better". There are many crazy things BWs write about OW too. In the end, does it matter?

 

Actually, I think this post was right on in several ways. I tried to explain to her that I just found out about her. It took him 3 months to disclose it after D-day. I had just processed it. But it was intended in no way as a conversation. I didn't want to "talk" about it. That's all I wanted - was to say that I knew and understood and was over it. It's a way to overcome feeling powerless - by saying, "With this knowledge, I am in a position to forgive. I am no longer powerless or excluded from your secret with my H."

[veryhappy]

Nobody should get to assume what the choice would have been. It's about having been excluded. There was a secret between you and it was decided for me whether or not I should know and what I would choose. That gives you and him all the power and me, none. That's what the "option to choose" is about.

 

I understand your frustration, but in this case your anger is misplaced. The H was the one keeping you in the dark all these years. Why do you hold the OW to the same/higher standars than your H?

 

Trust me, after the dust settled I have no power. I hold no power. One of the last things I told him when things ended was that I felt powerless. You need to understand that things are not that different. OW/BW are different sides of the same coin. Both sides are brutally betrayed.

 

I don't assume what you have chosen, I'm just telling you that you can regain some of your power and feel less terrible about it if you understand that in 2/3 of the cases where the marriage wasn't really that bad people stay together. So if your marriage wasn't all that horrible 20 years ago, chances really are that you might have stayed. Try to think back. It might be easier to deal with the deceit if you get to the conclusion that you would have stayed anyway.

[Older 'n' wiser]

When they act angry with you - it helps them to continue concealing their truth.

 

By throwing their anger out there - it's a gas lighting tactic that makes your head spin - and they never really answer the question or respond honestly to what was stated.

 

It's a huge manipulative tactic.

 

THAT is the one that totally throws me for a loop. I am the worst manipulator. It's embarrassing to be this transparent. So when someone tries gas lighting or manipulative tactics on me, it's confusing, a shock and always works. It takes very little to make me doubt myself and my memory. But I'm getting better about it. Getting better. Writing it out here (or anywhere) is the best. I just write the facts and eventually it sinks in that I've been had. These women know that I'm harmless and easily taken advantage of. I think it makes them angrier. And that is actually a valid point.

 

Maybe they hate me for my stupidity because it made it easier for H to cheat and hide. If I hadn't been so blind and foolish, maybe things wouldn't have gone as far as they did. Which should be embarrassing and shameful to think as well, shouldn't it? Cheating with my H, implying it's my fault for not knowing and then getting angry at me about it? That's insult added to injury.

 

But the fact is, can anybody blame only the MM? Takes two. That's what I don't understand as well. OW2 admitted it in her note - "It was mutual." - and then proceeded to lay all the blame on him when we spoke.

[Older 'n' wiser]

I understand your frustration, but in this case your anger is misplaced. The H was the one keeping you in the dark all these years. Why do you hold the OW to the same/higher standars than your H?

 

Trust me, after the dust settled I have no power. I hold no power. One of the last things I told him when things ended was that I felt powerless. You need to understand that things are not that different. OW/BW are different sides of the same coin. Both sides are brutally betrayed.

 

This was really, really helpful. I appreciate it very much. Yes, the secret was between us and it was his to disclose and he didn't. That is true.

 

But the best that you said was the question: Why do you hold the OW to the same/higher standard than your H? You're right. I was holding each of them to a higher standard.

 

But to say both sides are "brutally betrayed" ... ? The reason I don't agree with that is that I have heard his side. In his mind, it was clearly mutual. OW2 told me it was mutual. So how can there be a betrayal? Perhaps, this is because in many cases the MM promises things to the OW - and lies. I don't know that my H did that. He probably did but in his mind it "just happened" and he "should have known better" (that's the one that really gets me - like he didn't freakin' know better!) or this one: "We just lost it." Okay, well, bashing clears the air but doesn't answer these questions.

 

This has been most helpful - all the comments. I needed it because I knew OW1 and 2 and felt triple betrayal because of it. How could they do it to me?

 

I don't assume what you have chosen, I'm just telling you that you can regain some of your power and feel less terrible about it. if you understand that in 2/3 of the cases where the marriage wasn't really that bad people stay together. So if your marriage wasn't all that horrible 20 years ago, chances really are that you might have stayed. Try to think back. It might be easier to deal with the deceit if you get to the conclusion that you would have stayed anyway.

I still say it does matter. It's the principle. It was stolen from me, the right to decide for myself. Moreover, my life was not as I thought. I have to change and destroy certain memories. It wasn't what I thought it was. That is the hardest pill to swallow of all.

[Older 'n' wiser]

Oh he's a peach. Don't you have any revenge fantasies? How old is he running around with a flutter in his belly?

 

I'd guess then that the family member response was denial because family is involved. She's afraid things will get out of control. Family situations might be the very worst to deal with. What was he thinking?

 

Don't get me started. Flutter in his belly - good one! No, I don't have revenge fantasies - that I know of. Maybe I do and don't know to call it that.

 

The family member is definitely afraid of what I'll say and to whom because I've told her I simply do not lie and will not. If I need to protect another family member or if I'm accused of splitting the families, I will tell, but I haven't needed to yet. The sad thing was that we had a beautiful movie made of our two families just before I found out, which I destroyed all copies of. There's no pretending. It can never be the same for anyone in either family; they ruined that forever.

[2sunny]

What anger have you thrown in your husbands direction? Has he had consequences? What are they?

 

What has HE done to repair the damage HE caused?

[ThatJustHappened]

The reason they feel anger at you is because they hurt too. It's not a mutually exclusive arena of pain.

 

You've said it isn't about his honesty, but really it is. You only have his side and what he said to you. You don't know if he strung them along for years or told pretty lies or whatever and what demons of their own they may have.

 

I'd encourage you to realize that your guy is a REAL winner and to shift your focus there.

Just because you are in pain doesn't mean that they weren't hurt there too.

You said one of them said to you, "What about me."

 

You don't have to like it, but it isn't just about you, they are dealing with their own stuff and they owe it to you to fix what your husband caused. They don't owe you an explanation or closure or anything... that needs to come from him.

 

Being hurt does not give you license to hurt other people.

[Older 'n' wiser]

The reason they feel anger at you is because they hurt too. It's not a mutually exclusive arena of pain. Just because you are in pain doesn't mean that they weren't hurt there too. You said one of them said to you, "What about me."

 

I can read this and understand this - now. It's all clear, fair and makes sense. But no one - NO ONE - knows the extent of the pain and shock of discovering betrayal in the initial weeks and months. I have never gone through anything like it. My MC told us that therapists put it up there next to loss of a child for pain and grieving.

 

When OW2 said, "What about me?" it was like I was hearing a voice from the other end of a very long tunnel. It made no sense to me. I could not process it. I could not consider her right to pain yet. I was the victim, and she had perpetrated this injury equally with him, so how could she demand equal consideration from me. The real issue was that I simply could not feel, think about or understand anything but the immediacy of that loss, pain, degradation, humiliation, betrayal, rejection, confusion and shock.

 

Yet, although there is loss and pain for the OW, there is no amount of explanation that can EVER make the feelings of the OW equal to the BS at that time. It would have been useless to explain it to me then. All the MC said was, "She's being defensive," and that sort of made sense. Sort of. Even now, I agree that what you say is true: "It's not a mutually exclusive arena of pain ... they hurt too ..." I'd even offer that we can't compare or measure people's pain.

 

But I believe what my MC said and cannot imagine surviving the death of a child if it is worse than what I experienced as a BS. I have never known any loss as complete and devastating as that - no death of any loved one. It is so sudden and overwhelming that it literally throws the mind and body into shock. The emotions go everywhere, fluctuating constantly. Grief, rage, confusion can strike at any time. And the grief. The grief sucks the breath and will out of every waking moment. So, any comparison or reduction of this subject disrespects the absolute, incomparable destruction of self, the pain and suffering that most BS's experience immediately following D-day. It was my personal holocaust and, as such, I cannot have it disrespected or handled lightly by my H or anyone else.

 

That is about all I need to say about that, so I'll stop there because I am not here to challenge or scapegoat. I realize I am on OW turf and appreciate your allowing me to probe and question. I also appreciate the candid responses. But, please, do not ever try to know or compare the pain I had. I will never go there. I can only say I'm past it and can hear you now.

 

You've said it isn't about his honesty, but really it is. You only have his side and what he said to you. You don't know if he strung them along for years or told pretty lies or whatever and what demons of their own they may have. You don't have to like it, but it isn't just about you, they are dealing with their own stuff and they don't owe it to you to fix what your husband caused. They don't owe you an explanation or closure or anything... that needs to come from him.

I agree and appreciate this reminder. I know very well that MC and I have dragged him a long way. However it ended up, I was determined that he would walk every blasted step of the way with me and be accountable. He has been and we have grown closer and matured in important ways together. It is still not over.

 

I'd encourage you to realize that your guy is a REAL winner and to shift your focus there. ... what your husband caused.

I don't think he feels like a winner. He is immersed in shame a lot which is why it took so long to get the whole story. I don't think he feels like a winner but seems to appreciate having me stick around and give him a 2nd chance. (It can never be enough.)

 

But "... what he caused"? Definitely he caused me enormous pain from the deception. But the affair itself, as OW2 said, "was mutual" - "caused" by both. It doesn't seem logical, ethical or healthy to me to blame one party more than the other. Two. It takes two.

 

You don't have to like it, but it isn't just about you, they are dealing with their own stuff and they [don't] owe it to you to fix what your husband caused. They don't owe you an explanation or closure or anything... that needs to come from him.

Yes, that is totally fair. I have been obsessed with the OW without knowing why. Now, I think I do. I needed for both of them - H and OW - to acknowledge what they had done to me without excuses. He could do it and did it. She could not, and I think I finally get it: She had absolutely no obligation to do so whether she was a family member or former friend. My MC tried to tell me this: "She's just another person on the street to you now. Their thoughts don't matter to you, so why does hers?" I must be ready to hear it because the way you've put it resonates - "... they are dealing with their own stuff [and] don't owe you an explanation or closure or anything... that needs to come from him."

 

This conversation will help a LOT in letting that go. I have more understanding and respect for the tragedy that is the OWs lot. My insistence on respect for the pain of the BS should in no way diminish that. They are two different worlds and neither of us should try to bring them together.

 

I would like to say one thing for the sake of the suffering and loss felt by the OW as the 'one left behind.' In hammering through our issues and difficulties, I do understand one thing about my H's position. He and MC were clear about this. He canNOT - emotionally or mentally, for his sake and for mine - go back and 'fix' things with the OW. The NC letter is the end. I see now how awful that is for the OW. Just - nothing. Alone and trying to pick up pieces, get past it. I can see how the OW would resent the hell out of both the MM and BS. They have each other (she thinks - it's not that easy though by any stretch of the imagination). But the real fact is what I said: H simply cannot do anything but try and retrieve the marriage. There is just not enough humanity in either spouse or strength to support more than that. It is sad for the OW. I see that now and thank you for giving me a little window. I am glad to begin to have some understanding and empathy.

[Older 'n' wiser]

I don't think he feels like a winner.

 

Blush. I just realized you were being sarcastic when you said, "He's the real WINNER." (See what I mean? I need a couple of takes sometimes.)

[Summer Breeze]

THAT is the one that totally throws me for a loop. I am the worst manipulator. It's embarrassing to be this transparent. So when someone tries gas lighting or manipulative tactics on me, it's confusing, a shock and always works. It takes very little to make me doubt myself and my memory. But I'm getting better about it. Getting better. Writing it out here (or anywhere) is the best. I just write the facts and eventually it sinks in that I've been had. These women know that I'm harmless and easily taken advantage of. I think it makes them angrier. And that is actually a valid point.

 

Maybe they hate me for my stupidity because it made it easier for H to cheat and hide. If I hadn't been so blind and foolish, maybe things wouldn't have gone as far as they did. Which should be embarrassing and shameful to think as well, shouldn't it? Cheating with my H, implying it's my fault for not knowing and then getting angry at me about it? That's insult added to injury.

 

But the fact is, can anybody blame only the MM? Takes two. That's what I don't understand as well. OW2 admitted it in her note - "It was mutual." - and then proceeded to lay all the blame on him when we spoke.

 

I'm sorry to be contrary here but he had 3 As. Who else should you blame? I happen to have been a BS years ago and I blamed my xH. I ended up in an A with someone I met and fell in love with and as an OW still felt the choice to do what he did was his. Your H cheated 3 times and you're worrying about the OW. No offense but to me the real issue is really clear and it begins with H and ends with usband.

 

I do agree that I've seen OW and BS in here being so mad and I'm amazed. I never saw the sense of being mad at xHs OW or at DMMs BS. Any argument or issue I had was with the person who cheated. I am one of those women who puts the blame squarely on the one who cheated.

 

I'm really sorry you're having to face all of this now. I'm also sorry your H treated you so poorly. I know you said not to go into the details but from what you've written I don't think the sex was as limited as he's convinced you. You don't go through all that and do it 3 times in one lifetime without it progressing. That's my opinion and I do know I'm not aware of everything.

[Summer Breeze]

He and MC were clear about this. He canNOT - emotionally or mentally' date=' for his sake and for mine - go back and 'fix' things with the OW. The NC letter is the end. I see now how awful that is for the OW. Just - nothing. Alone and trying to pick up pieces, get past it. I can see how the OW would resent the hell out of both the MM and BS. They have each other (she thinks - it's not that easy though by any stretch of the imagination). But the real fact is what I said: H simply cannot do anything but try and retrieve the marriage. There is just not enough humanity in either spouse or strength to support more than that. It is sad for the OW. I see that now and thank you for giving me a little window. I am glad to begin to have some understanding and empathy.[/quote']

 

This is very generous of you and it is true. We had multiple ddays and it was never much more than a few weeks before he was back. When the A ended for good I ended it. I never had promises made to me or anything so I never felt that incredible hurt I read about in here. Don't get me wrong, I hurt because I loved him with all my heart but the decision was mine and I think that's easier.

 

I do hope he's worthy of your forgiveness. Good luck.

[Spark1111]

fBS here Older and Wiser, and the reaction of your OW to you is the reaction of my fOW to me.

 

Needless to say I was shocked, as, like you, I had only empathy for a D mom. I figured she just got caught up in his mid-life bs, had been lied to, and was also a victim.

 

She was, but not to the extent I inititally thought.

 

At any rate, yeah, she was angry, hated me, hated him, it was never her fault, only his, and they had almost a two year affair.

 

The irony? This was over two years after dday, and two weeks after she broke No contact and hinted she'd like to re-inititate the affair.

 

I do not think her reaction is all that unusual.

 

Welcome to LS, sorry for your pain, and please keep reading.

[Older 'n' wiser]

fBS here Older and Wiser, and the reaction of your OW to you is the reaction of my fOW to me.

 

Needless to say I was shocked, as, like you, I had only empathy for a D mom. I figured she just got caught up in his mid-life bs, had been lied to, and was also a victim.

 

She was, but not to the extent I inititally thought.

 

At any rate, yeah, she was angry, hated me, hated him, it was never her fault, only his, and they had almost a two year affair.

 

The irony? This was over two years after dday, and two weeks after she broke No contact and hinted she'd like to re-inititate the affair.

 

I do not think her reaction is all that unusual.

 

Welcome to LS, sorry for your pain, and please keep reading.

 

It is not over and I am waiting and watching. The pain is pretty much subsided most of the time now. I am much calmer, clearer and able to handle decisions and make observations with purpose and patience. I am watching to see who he decides to be. I am not convinced and still have doubts. He knows this. However, unless and until I find out he has lied on major points, I will try to be open and hopeful. I do want him to prove himself. If he could do it without prompts it would rock my world, but he probably can't. I am not terribly hopeful for the reasons touched upon here and others, but I try to be. Time makes me much stronger than I was a few months or even weeks ago each day, and time will tell. I will not settle for happiness without truth.

[Older 'n' wiser]

You did assume she had chosen.

 

She was not given the facts so that she can make her OWN decision. In addition, the OW2 was a family member. Someone who willingly and knowingly entered into an affair with a married man. I know many times a pass is given to those that enter an unfair assuming the MM is separated (by his words), yet even after knowing he is married, they claim they are already in too deep and can't get out. Yet this OW2 KNEW full well that the MM was married. BOTH the OW and MM in my mind deserve her anger. The fact that she chose to forgive them says a lot about HER character. For the OW to try to deflect by saying "it was mutual" is laughable and ridiculous. As if the OP didn't know that. As many times as I read on here how the OW 'couldn't' stop the affair or 'couldn't' stop communicating....hogwash. We are all in control of our selves and if we willingly and knowingly with conviction do things to hurt others, we should be able to own that and ask for forgiveness. I know not everyone thinks that way; that is MY view.

 

The OP has every right to feel anger at the OW2. Every right. She is dealing with her issues with her H. Had she known 20 years ago he had cheated, she may very well have decided to end her marriage. We don't know know and we can't assume she would have stayed.

 

I didn't realize how much I needed that validation, but I did. I have been through marriage counseling and had to be fair. I only met a couple of times with the therapist for IC. My parents are dead. One of my children got it out of me soon after D-day and was irate on my behalf, etc. but it was not healthy or fair to her so I stopped. We told the other children but it was "short and sweet" as the therapist advised, nor did they want more details than the facts. I told only one friend who saw it as a sad event for a lot of people she cared about. So I've had only a handful of conversations with people who recognized what all of this has meant for me.

 

It feels like rain after a drought.

[2sunny]

The only one you need to be fair to NOW is yourself!

 

You need to take care of you. You need to make decisions for YOUR best interest.

 

You have evidence that your H didn't have your best interest in mind. There's NO WAY to EVER trust again that he might. That is only up to you to trust your best judgment.

 

As a wise 92 year old very strong woman told me a few years ago - no one will do that for you but YOU.

 

For me - I trust myself... But now, even 8 years after DDay - trusting others doesn't come easy (like it used to) - I need hard evidence over long periods of time to know I might trust someone else.

 

Just because he might be playing nice doesn't guarantee he won't cheat again. In fact, the odds are good he will cheat given the right circumstances for him.

Lhasa he done extensive counseling to find out what's so broken inside him that he ruined his whole life and many people he loved?

[Lamplight]

You need to just leave these women alone. They were played, used and taken advantage of by your husband. They just want to leave this drama in the past. When you go and tell them that you forgive them and all that, they are sitting there wondering why in the world you are still with that POS. Is his paycheck really worth it? This man has talked a lot of **** about you and stabbed you in the back countless times. These woman are just greatful that's it not their problem anymore. They just want to move on and salvage any reputation they have left.

[Pierre]

You need to just leave these women alone. They were played, used and taken advantage of by your husband. They just want to leave this drama in the past. When you go and tell them that you forgive them and all that, they are sitting there wondering why in the world you are still with that POS. Is his paycheck really worth it? This man has talked a lot of **** about you and stabbed you in the back countless times. These woman are just greatful that's it not their problem anymore. They just want to move on and salvage any reputation they have left.

 

The wife is stuck with a cheater POS, but this is a discovery the wife made after the the courting, wedding, and many years of marriage.

 

OTOH, the OWs knew before hand that the man was a POS and a cheater and yet the OWs engaged the man.

 

Furthermore, these OWs would have jumped at the opportunity to be with MOM if the BW had divorced him.