I love my wife and my "mistress"

[Realist3]

Point taken! They were of two different varieties. The attacks on the wife have gone on for several pages while the attacks on the OW were in the first few pages (mostly) and when the OP asked for people to stop attacking the OW, most of them did.

 

My assertion was that Shame is not defending his wife against several attacks. Like it was previously mentioned, I wonder how Shame feels about these things being said about his wife on an internet forum?

 

I think this is something Shame should think about? Why isn't he defending his wife or at least telling posters to "can it" about her?

 

It is very clear that Shame is more invested in his OW so he needs to take steps to free himself, the OW and his wife from this painful situation.

 

 

I think he is invested with both. I can't speak for him, but maybe he sees some truth in the attacks on his wife. I don't know. I think if everything were in a perfect world he would opt for the MOW, but that is not the case, and it seems as though he has weighed those two scenarios very seriously.

[Realist3]

If it's the OW that's doing the hitting then IMO OP should dump her immediately and go completely NC with her.

 

He should try to find someone who doesn't emotionally abuse him or physically abuse him yet is capable of being physically and emotionally affectionate.

 

It sounds like he may need some therapy to figure out why he is drawn to abusive women.

 

 

He said it in a joking manner. I don't think he is concerned with his safety from his MOW. It was a JOKE!

[sweet_pea]

I think he is invested with both. I can't speak for him, but maybe he sees some truth in the attacks on his wife. I don't know. I think if everything were in a perfect world he would opt for the MOW, but that is not the case, and it seems as though he has weighed those two scenarios very seriously.

 

I actually agree. I think OP would rather be with the OW (through his actions both in real life and on the forum) but is convincing himself that he wants his wife.

[Realist3]

I actually agree. I think OP would rather be with the OW (through his actions both in real life and on the forum) but is convincing himself that he wants his wife.

 

Because he is trading a known, which he has stated he can live with, versus an unknown.

[Realist3]

I hope you are right and it's just a joke, but oftentimes people who are in abusive relationships minimize the behavior. Let's hope he was just kidding about it.

 

Unfortunately on a forum such as this one issues of abuse come up so frequently that my first assumption is that there is something behind the statement and it is not just a joke.

 

Understood, and you reaction was not out of line.

 

I just think he was saying that when he became too full of himself she slapped him a couple of times. No biggie.

[nofool4u]

I don't know what you think you have offered to this discussion, but from my point of view it hasn't been very much.

 

Please, you say attacks on the wife are supported by "evidence" of his wife's lack of sex, or more accurately, lack of libido?

 

Really? Since when did having a lack of libido warrant being attacked? Wait, I forget who I'm talking to.

 

Having said that it is you that haven't provided very much to this discussion, including telling him he ought to milk the the affair as long as he can. Ya, thats adding substance to the discussion.

 

You are an attack dog, and your methods are not very persuasive.

 

Perhaps not to someone who doesn't care about the wrong he has done, but to someone else it just might sink in. At least the OP is smart enough not to listen to the likes of "milk it".

[Realist3]

The wife represents a big sunk cost. There's a huge financial and emotional cost to divorcing, so there's a big incentive to rationalize maintaining the marriage. This makes it much more difficult to make a clean break yet doesn't resolve the continuing marital issues.

 

We like to make things very black and white in discussion forums but many times they just aren't out there in the real world.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I can't believe we are finally agreeing.

[nofool4u]

I hope you are right and it's just a joke, but oftentimes people who are in abusive relationships minimize the behavior. Let's hope he was just kidding about it.

 

Problem is, NOW that you realize he was likely referring to joking around and that it was the OW do you hope he was kidding.

 

Before when you thought it was his wife it was that damn no good dirty abusive wife.

[Realist3]

Please, you say attacks on the wife are supported by "evidence" of his wife's lack of sex, or more accurately, lack of libido?

 

Really? Since when did having a lack of libido warrant being attacked? Wait, I forget who I'm talking to.

 

Having said that it is you that haven't provided very much to this discussion, including telling him he ought to milk the the affair as long as he can. Ya, thats adding substance to the discussion.

 

 

 

Perhaps not to someone who doesn't care about the wrong he has done, but to someone else it just might sink in. At least the OP is smart enough not to listen to the likes of "milk it".

 

Again, you are failing. You have a high opinion of your input and that is undertandable, but you have to ask yourself what are you really adding to the OP's situation? I would suggest, not much give what he has stated.

[sweet_pea]

The wife represents a big sunk cost. There's a huge financial and emotional cost to divorcing, so there's a big incentive to rationalize maintaining the marriage. This makes it much more difficult to make a clean break yet doesn't resolve the continuing marital issues.

 

We like to make things very black and white in discussion forums but many times they just aren't out there in the real world.

 

But if OP is so in love with the OW, wouldn't a divorce be worth it? He'd be able to get everything he's dreamed of, and his wife would (hopefully) too! I think that's a win-win for all parties.

 

Clearly, the costs aren't that big to him, since he's risking it anyway.

[sweet_pea]

He's a cake eater.

That means if he was with his OW in real life, he'd try to get his wife back.

 

Yep, I see that, now

[nofool4u]

Again, you are failing. You have a high opinion of your input and that is undertandable, but you have to ask yourself what are you really adding to the OP's situation?

 

I'm telling him he needs to man up and do one of 2 things. He needs to break it off with the OW and quit worrying that she will be crushed. She will be fine. OP isn't the only man she could have.

 

Or set his wife free and go be with the OW, or be single but still help her cheat on her husband. Make a decision, simple as that.

 

What are YOU adding to the situation by telling him to milk the affair as much as he can? Really? And you ask me what I'm adding?

 

 

I would suggest, not much give what he has stated.

 

Given what he is stated, he is headed in more of the direction me and the others are steering him. Appears he is not going to "milk it".

What he has stated steers more in our direction than yours. Because steering towards your line of thinking, he would continue the affair and have a sense of entitlement on top of that.

 

So enough about who is contributing more in the thread. Thank you.

[Snowflower]

And as we know from these boards, once someone gets caught, they usually get thrown under the bus. Therefore, if your OW gets sloppy one day and her husband catches wind of what she's doing, then you have NO CONTROL over what her husband will do. As we've seen here many times, the BS contact your wife, employer, friends and family.

 

And also don't be so naive to think she won't beg and plead for his forgiveness should she get caught and do ANYTHING to make it up to him - that includes all your contact information and affair details.

 

As we know from reading the cheater and infidelity boards - it's not nice underneath that bus.

 

 

 

All those words of "love and devotion" go right out the window on Dday.

 

This is a really good point and a definite possibility.

 

OP, let's get this thread back on you instead of all our interesting side conversations. You haven't said much about your girl's husband/marriage. Is this because it isn't your business?

 

You've said that she will be all alone once you break it off with her, but this isn't strictly true. She has her husband...remember him? I will go back and check your opening post but it just shows how much the BS is minimized in an affair. He is barely mentioned.

[sweet_pea]

Cake eaters want it all, so divorce is not an option for him. Plus, I guarantee the MOW would drop him like a hot potato should he file for divorce and expect her to follow his lead.

 

He's a distraction and ego boost for her and nothing more.

 

Cake-eaters

 

I feel terrible for his wife. I hope she finds out, so that she can make a decision for herself as to whether she wants to stay married or not.

 

This guy is pretty much a lost cause, because as far as I see it, he won't be able to just stop seeing her/go NC. Didn't he even say that if she hugs him or something, he'll be sucked back in?

 

I hate to be so negative, but I'm just calling it like I see it. I don't think he'll stop unless he gets caught.

[Snowflower]

deleted....

Edited December 13, 2012 by Snowflower

[sweet_pea]

Even if Shame finds a way to break things off with the current OW--and given how exciting and rewarding that affair is, that will be very difficult for him to do voluntarily--it won't resolve the lack of sex and affection from his wife. He will be at serious risk for recidivism unless his wife is willing to be a wife to him in more than just name only. There didn't seem to be much daylight for that possibility though.

 

Um, the relationship isn't going to work unless, first and foremost, he is willing to be a husband (ya know, not cheating on his wife, communicating together, etc) to her.

 

Duck, seriously. Lack of intimacy may a problem in their relationship, but OP hasn't explained why she doesn't have sex with him and considering he's a cheater, for all we know, he could be (and probably is) lying/minimizing/rewriting marital history. It's happened before. You are so very quick to attack his wife. He cheated, end of story. He needs to be a better husband, willingly or nothing will get resolved.

 

He needs to fix himself before they can even begin to work on intimacy issues.

[Realist3]

I'm telling him he needs to man up and do one of 2 things. He needs to break it off with the OW and quit worrying that she will be crushed. She will be fine. OP isn't the only man she could have.

 

Or set his wife free and go be with the OW, or be single but still help her cheat on her husband. Make a decision, simple as that.

 

What are YOU adding to the situation by telling him to milk the affair as much as he can? Really? And you ask me what I'm adding?

 

 

 

 

Given what he is stated, he is headed in more of the direction me and the others are steering him. Appears he is not going to "milk it".

What he has stated steers more in our direction than yours. Because steering towards your line of thinking, he would continue the affair and have a sense of entitlement on top of that.

 

So enough about who is contributing more in the thread. Thank you.

 

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but you obviously haven't bveen keeptig up with the thread.

[woinlove]

Even if Shame finds a way to break things off with the current OW--and given how exciting and rewarding that affair is, that will be very difficult for him to do voluntarily--it won't resolve the lack of sex and affection from his wife. He will be at serious risk for recidivism unless his wife is willing to be a wife to him in more than just name only. There didn't seem to be much daylight for that possibility though.

 

Really she needs to see negative test results first, but I guess she doesn't know that.

 

Usually I take what WS say about their spouses with a grain of salt because often I've seen it change with time over the course of the affair. I'm sure shame is saying what he thinks right now, but that might have been different than before he was thinking of starting an A and it might yet be different again. But, I do agree they have a real uphill battle to get to a satisfying M, and that is even without hearing what unhappiness the W may have in their M outside of the affair. No M is easily healed after an affair, revealed or not, and shame still has a long way to get onto a path where they would be working on the M.

[Realist3]

Given what he is stated, he is headed in more of the direction me and the others are steering him. Appears he is not going to "milk it".

What he has stated steers more in our direction than yours. Because steering towards your line of thinking, he would continue the affair and have a sense of entitlement on top of that.

 

I think he stated what his direction was before anyone, much less you or anyone else, "steered" him in any direction. Nice attempt to take credit though.

[pteromom]

Women need sex too. If she's not getting it from OP, she's most likely getting it from someone else.

 

This is not always true. Since having a hysterectomy, I have ZERO libido, and ZERO need for sex.

 

I don't know the OP's wife (nor do you), so who knows. She could be cheating. She could have hormonal issues. She could know that she is married to a cheater and refuses to be intimate with him due to that. She could have been very mistreated in the relationship and lost her desire for her husband. She could just be mean and refuses sex to control her husband.

 

I don't know. And it sounds like the OP doesn't even know! That should have been his first course of action rather than having an affair. Finding out why and trying to solve whatever the issue is with his wife.

[sweet_pea]

 

The OP made it pretty clear that the termination of marital sex was unilateral on his wife's part. He stated that she kept turning him down until he pretty much just gave up and accepted a no-sex marriage (and little or no affection) as his lot in life (until he met the OW).

 

I didn't "attack" his wife in any way, pointing out that her denial of sex is the fundamental problem which destroyed their marriage and led to his affair isn't an "attack" on his wife.

 

In terms of why the wife cut the sex off three years ago, to me the way OP describes his wife's actions and attitudes towards sex and emotion in the marriage, his wife is probably a woman who never really strongly loved him in the first place, but like many other women, married him for other reasons. Women who really love their husbands are affectionate towards them. His wife was never that way.

 

Also, the cutting off of the sex and any affection at all is a big red flag that the wife had her own mid life crisis affair which probably conincided with the cutting off of marital sex. It's not something OP might want to contemplate since most people don't want to contemplate it, but her behavior and stage of life and in the marriage is consistent with her being involved in an affair herself.

 

That's usually the case when middle aged women cut the sex and affection off from their husbands for no apparent reason.

 

Women need sex too. If she's not getting it from OP, she's most likely getting it from someone else.

 

And please don't accuse me of "attacking" her, O.K.? Her behavior is entirely consistent with a walkaway/cheating wife having an MLC....and after all....you asked.

 

As far as bold #1, it takes two to tango. OP and BS both contributed to their marital issues. Not just BS. Let's not just blame her.

 

The thing is, I have yet to read what OP did to try and salvage their intimacy. He just says that he got used to it. He never said that he tried to talk to her about it (maybe I missed that part?), went to counseling, discussed this need or otherwise. Instead, he went out of his marriage.

 

I think you should remember is that you're hearing this all from one side of the situation. OP, like I said, is probably minimizing his contributions to the lack of intimacy/rewriting their marital history and straight up lying.

 

Regarding the bold, he states his wife is not a very affectionate woman. Some people are like that. That does not mean that she doesn't love him or married him for some other reason. You don't know her, therefore you don't know the reasons as to why she married him.

 

Also, women can pleasure themselves without having sex.

Edited December 13, 2012 by sweet_pea

[Snowflower]

Okay, where are we going with this? Let's wait for Shame to come back and weigh in. It is his situation after all.

 

Even if it is all Mrs. Shame's fault for withholding sex in the marriage which even the OP said it wasn't her fault, where does this leave the him? He is trying to figure out what to do with his wife vs. OW.

[sweet_pea]

What's not always true? OP didn't say his wife has any medical issues, and from what I recall, you still have sex with your husband.

 

So if even a woman with a hysterectomy and zero sexual desire can still bring herself to have sex with her husband, to me that suggests there must be something else that is detracting from OP's wife's willingness to have sex with him. And typically that would be an OM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless someone comes up with a more plausible explanation then that's what my assumption would be. Of course, she could just be a completely irrational person who for no reason whatever suddenly decided sex with her husband and showing him affection was no longer necessary in her life.

 

However that's not the way to bet in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not referenced by OP. What he said is what he said--a wife who suddenly stops giving her husband any love or affection after decades of marriage for no apparent reason. Huge red flag for cheating.

 

 

 

 

 

The cheating started several years after the cessation of marital sex so obviously his cheating could not be the reason she refuses to be intimate with him, even if she knows about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing in the OP's posts suggests he mistreated her in any way. Obviously she lost desire for him but there is no reason to speculate that he mistreated her.

 

 

 

 

 

Again now you are just speculating that she is irrationally arbitrary. Possibly but it is far more likely the sex stopped because she found someone else to get it from.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And that's typical of a clueless betrayed husband who has a wife involved in an unknown mid life crisis affair. She would be just as secretive with him, as he is being with her in respect to his affair.

 

 

 

 

 

So the OP is responsible for his wife's choice to terminate marital sex, even though he's made it very clear to her that he would like there to be marital sex; but she is not in any way responsible for his choice to have an affair in response to the lack of marital sex?

 

The italicized points you brought up all have one thing in common: Op continuously doesn't mention those ideas. So, because he hasn't mentioned them, does that mean that they aren't true? Do you really think that a WS would admit that he's mistreated his wife, isn't affectionate, blah blah? Uh, no. He's not going to admit to that, because then it ruins any chance of sympathy and justification for his affair.

 

For the bolded... he wrote, on here, if you'd care to look, that he was "ok" with the lack of sex, got used to it. It doesn't say that he discussed with her numerous amounts of time about it, he doesn't say that he pleaded with with her, none of it. Instead, he went outside of the marriage.

 

Duck, duck, duck.

[sweet_pea]

OP made it very clear that he repeatedly tried to get his wife to have sex with him, and in response, she made it very clear to him, that she is simply not interested in having sex with him any longer. Further, she is not emotionally invested in him the way his OW is--in a truly loving way--and in fact never has been throughout the marriage. OP's wife fits the profile of someone who married not for love but for other reasons, and after a couple of decades, becomes a "walkaway wife."

 

What's remarkable is this repeated point of view that a married woman's unilaterally deciding that she won't have sex with her husband any longer, and herself making absolutely no effort to communicate with him to explain what if anything she thinks needs to be done to change that, is somehow the burden of the man to try to resolve.

 

He asked her for sex. She repeatedly refused until he stopped asking because it was obviously futile.

 

That's entirely on her, based on what the OP has posted. Not on him.

 

If she was going to cut off all sex it was incumbent on HER, not on him, to justify it, and if she felt counseling was necessary, to take the initiative in that regard.

 

Uh-Oh, y'all! Duck must know all about their marriage! In fact, he knows that OP's wife has never been emotionally invested/in love him throughout their entire marriage! I stand corrected, Duck!

 

I just find it hilarious that you take what OP says as the absolute truth. He is the last person to tell the truth, especially since, ya know, he's having an affair. Why oh why would a cheater lie?

 

The fact is, none of us know OP, the BS or OW. You don't know how their marriage was before and during the affair. None of us do.

 

Dang, why can't you just say that you blame his wife? Clearly, you do.

[Snowflower]

 

Dang, why can't you just say that you blame his wife? Clearly, you do.

 

Oh yes, he does say it. Right here, below.

 

OP's wife is responsible for unilaterally ending their marital sex with no explanation and no effort on her part to seek counseling or otherwise fix whatever she thought was wrong in the marriage (although it sounds as if she was perfectly happy never to have sex with him again and therefore from her viewpoing there was nothing that needed to be fixed). She is also responsbile for any forseeable consequence of her decision to unilaterally cut off the marital sex, which obviously includes an affair by her spouse.

 

Now that we have who is really to blame here all straightened out after numerous pages and posts...

 

Let's wait now for the OP who did say once several pages back that it was getting a bit carried away.

 

Everything else now is just conjecture.