Sex and Song of Solomon! :)

[BetheButterfly]

Hello,

 

The weekly marriage Bible study that my husband and I enjoy attending just finished studying the book of Song of Solomon (or Song of Songs) with Tommy Nelson. It's a very romantic and interesting book (even though romantic things back then in Solomon's time is different than the culture I personally live in today.)

 

I had never studied this book before though I have always very much enjoyed reading this book!!!

 

What do you think of Song of Solomon, why do you think it is included in both the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible, and the Christian Bible.

 

Do you have favorite passages or verses in the Song of Solomon? One of my favorites is "I am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine;

he browses among the lilies." - Song of Solomon 6:3

Song of Songs 6 NIV - Friends Where has your beloved gone, - Bible Gateway

 

I can just picture my husband and me in a field of flowers. :love: That's so romantic. Now, we have never been in a field of flowers YET but that is one of my goals - for us to make love in a field, surrounded by flowers.

 

I would like to get a t-shirt with the words,

"I am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine... - SoS 6:3a"

and have the t-shirt decorated with lovely lilies sorta like this

Camas Lilies -- Lynn Ungar (what a beautiful poemLynn Ungar wrote: Camas Lilies)

or like this:http://whatgives365.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/field20of20lilies.jpg

:bunny:

So, what verse or verses do you like and why? I like many others too which maybelater will share!

Edited December 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BetheButterfly]

Because of the following:

 

1 Corinthians 11:3 * 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

 

I do not see the above to be sexually oppressive. I am glad that the head of my relationship is my husband, since he is a wonderful man who I love and who loves and respects me.

 

Jesus, by the way, said that a leader is a servant.

 

Matthew 20

Matthew 20 NIV - The Parable of the Workers in the - Bible Gateway

 

"25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

 

My husband serves me, and I really appreciate it. A great leader know how to serve.

 

I love the following in the article (I boldened some)

Simon Sinek: A Good Leader Serves

 

: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country,” implored John F. Kennedy in his inaugural address in 1961. On that day, Kennedy did more than ask us to serve our country, he asked us to lead our country so that our country could lead.

The irony of being a good leader

 

This is the irony to being a good leader and great leadership. The truly effective and inspiring leaders aren’t actually driven to lead people; they are driven to serve them."

Read more: Simon Sinek: A Good Leader Serves - AskMen

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:7 - 9* 7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

 

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35* 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (Woman to be silent in church. A woman is not to speak in church)

Paul is addressing the culture of Corinth. He does not say this in any other letter to any other city. Now, I am not a Corinthian woman It would be interesting if Paul could write a letter to the Christians in the USA, but the USA didn't exist at that time so... when in doubt with Paul's writings, I go by what Jesus says, personally. Paul is not Jesus.

 

Ephesians 5:22 - 25* 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; (Wives must submit themselves to their husband, afterall he is the head of the wife)

 

Colossians 3:18 * 18. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. (Wives submit to their husband -- the Lord expects it)

I believe submit here means to respect and consider his opinion. I love my husband and I also respect my husband. He deserves my respect!!! My husband both loves and respects me, which is how it should be. Yes I submit to my husband, but guess what? He submits to me too! :bunny: These verses do not at all sexually oppress me.

 

 

 

1 Timothy 2:9 - 15* 9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. (Women not to wear braided hair, gold, pearls, or costly array.

Women must learn in silence. Women are not to teach and not have

authority over men. Women must be silent. Adam was created first,

then Eve. A woman was deceived, but Adam was not deceived)

 

 

Romans 7:2 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. (woman bound to her husband for life)

 

Titus 2:3 - 5* 3 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. (Women to obey their own husbands)

Paul was a man who never got married. He had his own opinions and that is fine. What one needs to understand though is that Paul never taught for husbands or men to be cruel to their wives, but rather to love them. Sad to say, men who don't love their wives can be found in any belief (as well as those who don't believe in God), but it is wonderful when men of any belief or no belief truly love their wives.

1 Peter 3:1 -3 1. Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear. 3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

 

 

1 Peter 3:5 -7* 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Peter was writing to women whose husbands did not believe in Jesus. The goal was to show them Jesus. Now, my husband knows Jesus (despite people who don't believe in him today). However, in that time and area, believing in Jesus could be dangerous. Many Christians were killed. It was a big responsibility and danger/risk to believe in Jesus at that time, as well as it is nowadays in places where freedom of religion is not given.

 

Genesis 3:16* 16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (Women will be ruled by men)

Sadly, men all over the world oppress women, no matter what they believe or don't believe. However, the above is not an excuse; it is an explanation. One can of course disagree with this explanation, but for others, it does help to explain why men who are so much stronger than women mistreat women, from Russia to Latin America to the USA to China to Saudi Arabia to everywhere...

 

Leviticus 12:2 * 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Leviticus 12:5 5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. (Woman unclean for 7 days if she gives birth to a man child. She is unclean for 14 days to 66 days if she gives birth to woman child)

When I am in my period, I don't feel clean till I shower. As far as I know, they didn't have nice plumbing in those days. Hey, even when I'm not in my period, I like to shower at least once a day... I wonder what the bathing habits of people without running hot water are like?

 

E

sther 1:22 22 For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that [it] should be published according to the language of every people.

This is about a Medes/Persian king...

 

Job 25:4 * 4 How then can man be justified with God? or , how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman? (Any man born of a woman is unclean)

Humans can get dirty. It's just a normal part of life, to be unclean and then get clean.

Ecclesiastes 7:26 26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her. ( Women can be source of evil for men. Men source of evil for

women? -- doesn't say)

You are twisting the passage. It is talking about women who snare men. Think for example if you loved someone who cheated on you and hurt you. The author of Ecclesiastes is a man. He writes from his perspective. He is not saying that women are the source of evil for men, but rather he finds the woman who snares men to be "more bitter than death." Please note that he does not call her the b word, which sadly many men nowadays would do, regardless of their belief/lack of belief in God. (I am glad that my husband doesn't call women the b word.)

Deuteronomy 22:5 * 5. The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God. ( Women not to wear pants, nor men to wear dresses)

Cultural thing of that time and place. Now, many Jewish women wear pants... oh no!!! Lol

 

1 Corinthians 11:14 * 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

This has nothing to do with women, but my husband has long hair oh no!!! He is not a Corinthian man though in the time period of Paul's letter!

 

Christianity is not confined to just one time period or thought process. Christianity is not a set of rules but is rather the belief in Jesus being the Messiah, the Son of God, who died on the cross and who rose again and who will come again. Christianity is about loving God and loving others, including one's neighbors, each other, one's wife (and husband) and even one's enemies.

 

I would like to share another passage in the Song of Solomon that I love: (I boldened some)

Song of solomon 1 NIV - Solomon

 

 

2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—

for your love is more delightful than wine.

3 Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes;

your name is like perfume poured out.

No wonder the young women love you!

4 Take me away with you—let us hurry!

Let the king bring me into his chambers.

 

I can identify with this because this is how I feel about my husband.

Edited December 13, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[Cutiepie1976]

Getting back to your OP, it's one of my favorite books. A reminder of how important all forms of love are. Unfortunately, because it's a collection of erotic love poems, it seems to get very little attention.

 

Not sure why it's included in both the Jewish and Christian Bibles... It's interesting what gets included or left out where the three religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) overlap.

[pteromom]

I don't have any strong feelings about SoS, but I absolutely LOVE the Corinthians definition of love, and believe that it should be held up as a yardstick for how a relationship meets our needs. (Whether or not we believe in the Bible).

 

Love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

[todreaminblue]

Hello,

 

The weekly marriage Bible study that my husband and I enjoy attending just finished studying the book of Song of Solomon (or Song of Songs) with Tommy Nelson. It's a very romantic and interesting book (even though romantic things back then in Solomon's time is different than the culture I personally live in today.)

 

I had never studied this book before though I have always very much enjoyed reading this book!!!

 

What do you think of Song of Solomon, why do you think it is included in both the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible, and the Christian Bible, and why do some people think that people who love God are "sexually oppressed"? I personally LOVE sex:love: and passionately enjoy lovemaking with my husband!

 

Do you have favorite passages or verses in the Song of Solomon? One of my favorites is "I am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine;

he browses among the lilies." - Song of Solomon 6:3

Song of Songs 6 NIV - Friends Where has your beloved gone, - Bible Gateway

 

I can just picture my husband and me in a field of flowers. :love: That's so romantic. Now, we have never been in a field of flowers YET but that is one of my goals - for us to make love in a field, surrounded by flowers.

 

I would like to get a t-shirt with the words,

"I am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine... - SoS 6:3a"

and have the t-shirt decorated with lovely lilies sorta like this

Camas Lilies -- Lynn Ungar (what a beautiful poemLynn Ungar wrote: Camas Lilies)

or like this:http://whatgives365.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/field20of20lilies.jpg

:bunny:

So, what verse or verses do you like and why? I like many others too which maybelater will share!

 

 

I havent read this book.......`you make me want to read it....i just need to fidn that special someone first..at the mometn if i were to read it i think the guy i like would be in my dreams every night i am trying to keep him out of my sleeping hours...i am awake enough.......smilin atcha i love your posts...i appreciate you..people who are passionate about god and families....would also be passionate about partners.....i dont have to have that to know that...i just know it..considering i am passionate about god.....and i do love sex.....i would assume as you have written that passion flows everywhere around religion especially in union......togetherness in every way...heart mind body spirit.....deb

 

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Song%20of%20Songs+6&version=NIV just read this shouldnt have read it lol made me sad....love it though gorgeous..pure poetic grace in love..deb

Edited December 13, 2012 by todreaminblue

[BetheButterfly]

Beth specifically asked how folks can view her religion as sexually oppressive,

 

I didn't specify my religion in the question, but it is true that I asked how people can believe that Theists are sexually oppressed (especially seeing as how Song of Songs is an awesome literary work of art that extols the beauty and passion of sex and romance).

 

and I have provided proof to that conclusion. It is specifically on topic as she asked the question, even if rhetorically.

You did not prove to me that I am sexually oppressed for believing in God. Rather, you quoted Bible verses, most of which addressed a specific group of people a long time ago. Those verses do not at all take into account the fact that Christianity is not a set of rules. Christianity is a belief in Jesus being the Messiah, the Son of God, who died on the cross, who was raised to life again, who is in Heaven, and who is coming back again.

 

The Bible verses you quoted do not take into consideration the fact that Christianity is in itself a diverse and extremely flexible belief that has "evolved" over the years. Even during the time of Jesus' apostles who walked and talked with him, Christianity evolved from being only Jewish people/converts to Judaism following Jesus to being Gentiles as well following Jesus (please see Acts 10 and Acts 15). Since Christianity has experienced many Enlightenments over the centuries, one can obviously conclude that Christianity is not a mere book or strict adherence to a book. Most Christians believe that Christian beliefs are led by the Holy Spirit and is a continual process, which focuses on the love of God for mankind through Jesus.

 

Think what you will, Be, but those instances are in your holy book and set certain standards.

I will think what I will, because I have the freedom to do so. As for my holy book, people see what they want to see in it, as well as what they want to see in other books. For example, if I like violence (which I don't), I will see the violence accounted in the book and say, "Yep i can be violent yeehaw let's kill people." If I'm a peace-loving person (which I am) I will focus on Jesus' teachings and the peaceful passages. That is the same with all other books. People focus on what they like and with what they identify.

 

You cannot have it both ways. Men who demand respect and to be the "head of the relationship" and are to be viewed as "god" are no less christians then your husband is.

My husband does not demand respect. I respect him freely. I do not demand respect, but my husband respects me. I do not view my husband as god and he doesn't view me as a goddess. However, we love each other very much and respect each other. Do you understand that?

Men who beat their wives with rods less then the width of a finger is, by the definition of your bible, a christian value.

Please quote where in the Bible it says men who beat their wives with rods less than the width of a finer is a Christian value? Thanks.

 

Those passages place the value of the man far above that of the woman. If you cannot see it, I cannot further explain to you the sexism in your religion, as you are blind to it.

I see my husband's love and respect for me. I see my Dad's love and respect for my Mom. He has also given his 4 daughters (he has no sons) respect, love, nurture, and care. He has never ever complained about not having sons or put us down for being girls. He has never considered himself above women, and neither has my husband, my Grandpa, and many other Christian men who I know personally, both family members and friends and acquaintances. Now, you can say I'm blind all you want. I can say the same about you, but in my world, the Christian men I know and love are very respectful of women and consider women equal with men.

[BetheButterfly]

I don't have any strong feelings about SoS, but I absolutely LOVE the Corinthians definition of love, and believe that it should be held up as a yardstick for how a relationship meets our needs. (Whether or not we believe in the Bible).

 

Love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

 

I agree. It is a very beautiful description about love that Paul gives and I believe it is true. Thanks for sharing it!!! :love:

[BetheButterfly]

I havent read this book.......`you make me want to read it....i just need to fidn that special someone first..at the mometn if i were to read it i think the guy i like would be in my dreams every night i am trying to keep him out of my sleeping hours...i am awake enough.......smilin atcha i love your posts...i appreciate you..people who are passionate about god and families....would also be passionate about partners.....i dont have to have that to know that...i just know it..considering i am passionate about god.....and i do love sex.....i would assume as you have written that passion flows everywhere around religion especially in union......togetherness in every way...heart mind body spirit.....deb

 

 

Song of Songs 6 NIV - Friends Where has your beloved gone, - Bible Gateway just read this shouldnt have read it lol made me sad....love it though gorgeous..pure poetic grace in love..deb

 

Deb, I am so sorry it made you sad. That wasn't my intention.

 

I think it's awesome that you are passionate about God and that you love sex. I do too!!! :bunny: I am praying for you, that God brings into your life a wonderful lifemate with whom you enjoy sex. Please don't give up on love, and yeah, Song of Songs is so beautiful... I love how you describe it... "the gorgeous, pure poetic grace in love."

 

Since you are an awesome poet, it doesn't surprise me at all that you appreciate other poetry in a way that artists appreciate other art. That is so cool!!! I wish I was a poet, but I am so glad that you and others are!!! I feel like the people who do not have the talent who watch an artist draw an amazing drawing and are in awe.

 

Blessings!!!

[BetheButterfly]

Back to Song of Songs!

 

The following is a very erotic description of a man, the lover in this beautiful sexy literary work of art. It reminds of my husband, except my hubby has black hair with hints of reddish brown in it... I wonder if I could write a love poem about him as fine as this?

 

Song of Songs 5 (I boldened some)

Song of Songs 5 NIV - He I have come into my garden, my - Bible Gateway

 

 

"10 My beloved is radiant and ruddy,

outstanding among ten thousand.

11 His head is purest gold;

his hair is wavy

and black as a raven.

12 His eyes are like doves

by the water streams,

washed in milk,

mounted like jewels.

13 His cheeks are like beds of spice

yielding perfume.

His lips are like lilies

dripping with myrrh.

14 His arms are rods of gold

set with topaz.

His body is like polished ivory

decorated with lapis lazuli.

15 His legs are pillars of marble

set on bases of pure gold.

His appearance is like Lebanon,

choice as its cedars.

16 His mouth is sweetness itself;

he is altogether lovely.

This is my beloved, this is my friend,

daughters of Jerusalem."

 

 

 

:love:

 

What passages and verses do you like/find erotic or fun or impact you in some way?

Edited December 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Stephanie]

***** Moderators Note *****

 

The original post has been edited to remove the part about sexual repression as it was felt that it detracted from the topic that was originally intended.

 

I will leave the post exchange relating to the sexual repression as is for now since it is on topic for that period but ask that ALL discussion of sexual repression not be posted in this thread from here forward.

 

 

Thanks

[BetheButterfly]

Getting back to your OP, it's one of my favorite books. A reminder of how important all forms of love are. Unfortunately, because it's a collection of erotic love poems, it seems to get very little attention.

 

I think it should get much more attention - from adults of course!!!

 

Not sure why it's included in both the Jewish and Christian Bibles... It's interesting what gets included or left out where the three religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) overlap.

It is interesting. I think one of the reasons why the Song of Songs is included in both the Jewish and Christian Bibles is because sex is a vital part of marriage for most marriage covenants. Song of Songs is a lovely work of art that emphasizes romance and the beauty/excitement of sex.

 

For many beliefs/cultures, marriage is a very important part of establishing the family unit. Since sex is how humans reproduce, it is cool to talk about it and learn about it. The Song of Songs is a great for that.

 

I looked up the following about the Song of Songs in Judaism, and it has some very good points about why it is in the Christian Bible too:

 

SONG OF SONGS, THE - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

The following is a quote from the above article:

 

"The oldest known interpretation of the Song (induced by the demand for an ethical and religious element in its content) is allegorical: the Midrash and the Targum represent it as depicting the relations between God and Israel. The allegorical conception of it passed over into the Christian Church, and has been elaborated by a long line of writers from Origen down to the present time, the deeper meaning being assumed to be the relation between God or Jesus and the Church or the individual soul. The literal interpretation of the poem as simply a eulogy of married love had its representatives in early times (Theodore of Mopsuestia, and, to some extent, Abraham ibn Ezra), and, in the renaissance of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, was maintained by Grotius, Clericus, and others; but it is only in the last hundred years that this interpretation has practically ousted the allegorical. The Song is now taken, almost universally, to be the celebration of a marriage, there being, in fact, no hint of allegory in the text."

 

I do know Christians who see it as an allegory of Christ (groom) and the church (bride) but I personally see it more as the celebration of marriage between 2 humans, sexual/friendship/humanity love, and romance.

[TheFinalWord]

I like in Proverbs 5 where Solomon is teaching his son to love his wife and not to fall for the trap of adultery

 

5 Drink water from your own cistern,

running water from your own well.

16 Should your springs overflow in the streets,

your streams of water in the public squares?

17 Let them be yours alone,

never to be shared with strangers.

18 May your fountain be blessed,

and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.

19 A loving doe, a graceful deer—

may her breasts satisfy you always,

may you ever be intoxicated with her love.

20 Why, my son, be intoxicated with another man’s wife?

Why embrace the bosom of a wayward woman?

21 For your ways are in full view of the Lord,

and he examines all your paths.

22 The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare them;

the cords of their sins hold them fast.

23 For lack of discipline they will die,

led astray by their own great folly.

[Cutiepie1976]

...the deeper meaning being assumed to be the relation between God or Jesus and the Church or the individual soul. The literal interpretation of the poem as simply a eulogy of married love had its representatives...The Song is now taken, almost universally, to be the celebration of a marriage, there being, in fact, no hint of allegory in the text."

 

I do know Christians who see it as an allegory of Christ (groom) and the church (bride) but I personally see it more as the celebration of marriage between 2 humans, sexual/friendship/humanity love, and romance.

 

Thanks for the entire explanation, even though for brevity's sake, I'm only quoting a small part.

 

I had always seen it discussed as an allegory for God and his faithful. It wasn't until I was going through about 18 months ago that I realized that it really was also just an ode to love and the writer's lover...or lovers.

 

Most passages in the Bible have multiple layers of meaning and interpretation, I think. There's the literal story, a literal message...and then a deeper takeaway. You get more out of it with each reading. That's true of any great novel or work of art actually. Not that I would ever minimize the Bible as just another piece of great art. For any Christian, it's the inspired Word of God, much as the TaNaKh is for observing Jews or the Koran for Muslims.

[Cutiepie1976]

I like in Proverbs 5 where Solomon is teaching his son to love his wife and not to fall for the trap of adultery

 

I agree. A truly wonderful passage!

 

Sorry to digress, but you know, I really struggle with the back stories of some of these guys, like Solomon or David, especially when they expound on topics like this. Solomon had five wives and a harem of four hundred concubines. It's seems a little hypocritical for him to teach anyone about being faithful to one's wife, all the while wallowing in variety and adding whenever he pleased.

 

Ditto for David, who despite his standing in the Bible, was anything but a paragon of virtue on most fronts. Since this passage is about marital fidelity, I'll focus on that. Here's a guy who gets the hots for another man's young wife (ignore the fact that he himself already has four other wives), has an affair with her, and when she accidentally gets pregnant, has her husband killed. Granted he was punished, but still God chose to have Jesus be born to descendants of one of their children together (ironically, Solomon), and Bathsheba is one of only four women referenced in recitations of Jesus' genealogy from Abraham, each of those women having quite the back story.

 

I've struggled with this and come to the following conclusions about these types of stories and individuals in the Bible: Humans are fallible. They screw up. They suffer. They're punished. They're truly remorseful and penitent, and God forgives. It's over. Clean slate!

 

It's a message for us. As humans, we often don't want to forgive when a loved one hurts us or betrays our trust. Instead we want revenge, to hurt them, we become bitter or angry if they seem happy, etc. We can't let go. I think the messy stories are there to model and teach us how to forgive and move on, much as many of the passages in the Song of Solomon, Ephesians, and elsewhere teach and remind us to love, respect, and treasure our partner, our lover.

 

Apologies for the tangent! Solomon lecturing on fidelity just got my goat. I'm better now.

[TheFinalWord]

I agree. A truly wonderful passage!

 

Sorry to digress, but you know, I really struggle with the back stories of some of these guys, like Solomon or David, especially when they expound on topics like this. Solomon had five wives and a harem of four hundred concubines. It's seems a little hypocritical for him to teach anyone about being faithful to one's wife, all the while wallowing in variety and adding whenever he pleased.

 

Ditto for David, who despite his standing in the Bible, was anything but a paragon of virtue on most fronts. Since this passage is about marital fidelity, I'll focus on that. Here's a guy who gets the hots for another man's young wife (ignore the fact that he himself already has four other wives), has an affair with her, and when she accidentally gets pregnant, has her husband killed. Granted he was punished, but still God chose to have Jesus be born to descendants of one of their children together (ironically, Solomon), and Bathsheba is one of only four women referenced in recitations of Jesus' genealogy from Abraham, each of those women having quite the back story.

 

I've struggled with this and come to the following conclusions about these types of stories and individuals in the Bible: Humans are fallible. They screw up. They suffer. They're punished. They're truly remorseful and penitent, and God forgives. It's over. Clean slate!

 

It's a message for us. As humans, we often don't want to forgive when a loved one hurts us or betrays our trust. Instead we want revenge, to hurt them, we become bitter or angry if they seem happy, etc. We can't let go. I think the messy stories are there to model and teach us how to forgive and move on, much as many of the passages in the Song of Solomon, Ephesians, and elsewhere teach and remind us to love, respect, and treasure our partner, our lover.

 

Apologies for the tangent! Solomon lecturing on fidelity just got my goat. I'm better now.

 

Very true! Good points.

 

You know, I believe Proverbs 5 is actually from David to Solomon. I believe Solomon's proverbs start in Chapter 10. I'll have to look it up in my books. I've been posting a lot today and getting kind of sloppy. This is what happens Pslam 51 is David's prayer after Nathan exposed his attempt to cover up his affair by having Uriah killed in battle.

 

You are also right that God still used David and Solomon... and us!

 

Check out 1 Kings 11:1-13 and Psalm 89:19-37 if you want sometime for your studies

[M30USA]

Growing up reading the Bible, I used to think that all the sin and selfishness of people like Moses, David, Noah, all 12 disciples, and others somehow discredited the Bible. Now I've realized the opposite is true. As TFW said, there are no exceptions to sin.

[Cutiepie1976]

Very true! Good points.

 

You know, I believe Proverbs 5 is actually from David to Solomon. I believe Solomon's proverbs start in Chapter 10. I'll have to look it up in my books. I've been posting a lot today and getting kind of sloppy. This is what happens Pslam 51 is David's prayer after Nathan exposed his attempt to cover up his affair by having Uriah killed in battle.

 

You are also right that God still used David and Solomon... and us!

 

Check out 1 Kings 11:1-13 and Psalm 89:19-37 if you want sometime for your studies

 

Thanks! I'll check them out.

[Cutiepie1976]

Growing up reading the Bible, I used to think that all the sin and selfishness of people like Moses, David, Noah, all 12 disciples, and others somehow discredited the Bible. Now I've realized the opposite is true. As TFW said, there are no exceptions to sin.

 

I think that's the lesson!

 

We're all sinners. Doesn't mean we shouldn't repent, seek forgiveness, mend our ways, and try to be God's vessels.

[M30USA]

I think that's the lesson!

 

We're all sinners. Doesn't mean we shouldn't repent, seek forgiveness, mend our ways, and try to be God's vessels.

 

Also doesnt mean Gods forgiveness will last forever...or this world.

[BetheButterfly]

I think that's the lesson!

 

We're all sinners. Doesn't mean we shouldn't repent, seek forgiveness, mend our ways, and try to be God's vessels.

 

Agreed!

 

What do people think this verse means?

 

Song of Songs 2 NIV - She I am a rose of Sharon, a lily of - Bible Gateway

"7 Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you

by the gazelles and by the does of the field:

Do not arouse or awaken love

until it so desires."