How can someone learn to love themselves?

[ScreamingTrees]

I'm not saying I hate myself. There are days when I really do, and days when I feel pretty good. But I feel like the "good" days are just "neutral" days where I haven't had any bad experiences to validate how I truly feel when it comes down to it.

 

So, what I'm wondering is, if you feel you're objectively unattractive and should have no reason to feel confident or desirable, and an attractive female is interested, how can you feel desirable/confident enough to try to seal the deal? I wonder why or what they'd be seeing that I'm not, or rather what they're NOT seeing that I do.. I'd wonder what their motives are, if they're looking to use me or what.

 

How can someone change negative thinking like this if it's not influenced externally? How can I change how I feel about MYSELF, when my opinion is negative REGARDLESS of other people's opinions, positive or negative?

 

Plastic surgery? (I'm sort of joking, but sort of serious. lol) Medication?

 

I don't feel like medication is going to do much for me. Assuming I'm suffering from some sort of self-image hallucination.. (I mean, I don't see how my perception is healthy in regards to most other things in life and yet how I perceive myself seems to be thought of as irrational and exaggerated by those around me)

 

The pills would have to basically change my perception of my physical self, which doesn't sound likely, unless they magically change what I'm seeing in the mirror and in photos, which would be self-deception because then I wouldn't see myself as how the majority of people are seeing me. I don't really know what to do.

[pteromom]

I wouldn't see myself as how the majority of people are seeing me.

 

There is no such thing as the way the majority of people are seeing you.

 

How each person sees you is based on that individual's perceptions and experiences.

 

Your smile may remind one girl of her dad's, and that may be the subconscious attractor that draws her to you.

 

Another girl may connect with a hobby you value or a song you love or the way you wear your hair or just that you are interested in her and being around you makes her feel special.

[KungFuJoe]

Umm...you might want to look a little deeper if you actually hate yourself.

 

You might have depression. I would try to seek some therapy...even just a single session could do you wonders.

 

Also, there is a book called "Feeling Good"

 

Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy: David D. Burns: 9780380810338: Amazon.com: Books

 

I strongly recommend reading this.

[MrCastle]

Change what you can change about yourself and accept the things you can't. We all have flaws.

[Mer-Maid]

Something a very good friend of mine told me years ago really made an impression on me (I struggle with self-image). She had recently become engaged and said about her fiance: "If he thinks my thighs look good, then who cares how I think they look!" And that's so true!

 

 

We have a very inaccurate view of ourselves (whether we see all good or all bad) and no mirror or camera can show us what other people see when they look at us. Just because we see flaws doesn't mean anyone else sees them. I tend to point out my flaws and my mom is always telling me that no one would notice them if I stopped doing that.

 

You said:

 

An attractive female is interested, how can you feel desirable/confident enough to try to seal the deal?

 

If a woman you find attractive is drawn to you, except that she finds you attractive and don't sabotage your happiness by letting your own self-view affect the relationship. What matters is what she sees - you're not attracted to yourself, so you don't know what she sees or how she feels - just except her actions and words and remember that we can never see ourselves the way others do!

 

 

One HUGE thing that helps me with my worries about how I look or come across to people is to focus on that other person. Think about how they look, how they feel, what they're saying . . . by focusing on them [and remembering that everyone has their own concerns] you'll have less time to think about yourself. I try to keep in mind that they have their own 'issues' and that we never know what someone else is dealing with or what things worry them. Maybe she's worrying that you'll see something in her that she finds fault with that you would never notice.

[Seductive]

You love yourself by asking if you would treat a good friend or a child. Sorry this is short, bc I'm on my phone. Our thoughts create our reality. You start telling yourself that you accept yourself and cherish yourself as you would your own child.

[ScreamingTrees]

Okay, well the first thing you need to understand is that you cannot objectively feel unattractive, your perception is 100% subjective as you are the subject doing the assessing and the subject of the assessment. This is not a semantic issue, it's the root of the problem. The only way around it that I know of ...without fishing for compliments.. to start to rectify this situation is to figure out exactly what you think makes you unattractive.

 

Make a list of all your physical traits/features (since this is what you're concerned about...if it was your personality, I was say list those), go down the list and objectively try to assess them. List them, one by one, and put a "+", "-", or "neutral". Then take a look at the list and see what you actually come up with. My guess is you will objectively see that you probably are seeing yourself through an emotional lens that is clouding your judgment and that while you have flaws (as everyone does), they're things you can improve if not fix (skin/hair/teeth/weight) and that most of you is actually just fine.

 

Also, keep in mind, that because all of this is entirely subjective, many of the things you might not like about yourself are things that others may find attractive. For example, I am not crazy about my tush...as an athlete it's always seemed too soft, too round to me...but it's one of the "subjectively unattractive" parts of my body that has been routinely assessed as "objectively attractive" by both men and women throughout the course of my life. It bothers me even now from time to time, but when I start to feel bad about it now, I remind myself that I have no reason to assume my perception is any more "correct" than anyone else's has ever been. I guarantee you that is the case for you as well.

 

You don't need to learn to lie to yourself or change your personality, but you should work on applying the same standards to yourself as you do to others.

 

Alrighty, I definitely didn't expect so many positive, helpful replies, but I'm going to play along and actually think of everything that I personally believe are generally not considered to be aesthetically pleasing physically traits, alongside some neutral/positive traits that are overpowered and nullified by the negatives;

 

People that I know may argue that I do not posess some of these traits at all, but I know what I see. Maybe some of the positives are being exaggerated.

 

1. Forehead that is moderately steeper than my nose, closer to being straight rather than being in line with it. (+)

 

2. Low rooted, practically hooked nose with a drooping tip and flared nostrils. (----------)

 

3. Underdeveloped lower jaw likely due to poor nutrition and dental care or injury as a child/ protruding upper lip as a result.

(----------)

 

4. Eyebrows. Have received compliments on them, I think? (+?)

 

5. Eyes. Blue and green. Have also received compliments. Wearing glasses negates this. (N)

 

6. Frame/Body - Roughly average/lower end of average height. Ecto-mesomorph. Chest is 40, waist 29 or 28. Compliments on my large developed pecs and wide shoulders. V-shape with the adonis belt. Fairly visible abs.

 

7. Hair - Dark ash blonde, turns a silvery light blonde in strong sunlight. I don't remember if anyone's ever even said anything about my hair. I don't think blonde hair seems to be particularly attractive to most women, at least not paired with a face like mine. (N-)

 

8. Glasses - Told I look "wise".. like an "intellectual".. And that I should get contacts. LOL.. Go figure.. I'm neutral about this. Glasses don't make a face ugly, but glasses can make an ugly face uglier so they definitely don't work in my favor. (-----)

 

Neither of my parents share any of these negative features of mine.. I can't think of any other things that I've spent periods of my life privately obsessing and agonizing over, that no matter how long I go feeling like I could conquer the world, I always end up coming back to these insecurities without failure.

 

Even right now, I'd genuinely rather swap faces with a burn victim, I don't even care how ridiculous this sounds to anyone, I can't change how I genuinely feel, so I could either repress these feelings or just be honest about them.

[ScreamingTrees]

You love yourself by asking if you would treat a good friend or a child. Sorry this is short, bc I'm on my phone. Our thoughts create our reality. You start telling yourself that you accept yourself and cherish yourself as you would your own child.

 

I don't, and I wouldn't. If I had a child that looked exactly like me, I wouldn't say I'd be proud, but I guess it'd be what it is. I don't want to be the one to blame for ugly features, for physical crutches on my children someday. I wouldn't want them to have to overcome a ****load of negatives.

 

I don't see where my platonic male friends tie in to accepting my physical self.

[Mer-Maid]

2. Low rooted, practically hooked nose with a drooping tip and flared nostrils. (----------)

 

5. Eyes. Blue and green. Have also received compliments. Wearing glasses negates this. (N)

 

7. Hair - Dark ash blonde, turns a silvery light blonde in strong sunlight. I don't remember if anyone's ever even said anything about my hair. I don't think blonde hair seems to be particularly attractive to most women, at least not paired with a face like mine. (N-)

 

8. Glasses - Told I look "wise".. like an "intellectual".. And that I should get contacts. LOL.. Go figure.. I'm neutral about this. Glasses don't make a face ugly, but glasses can make an ugly face uglier so they definitely don't work in my favor. (-----)

 

As a girl I just have to comment on these points.

 

I've read a lot of literary descriptions of attractive men and the authors often use the word "hooked" for a manly nose.

 

I personally love light eyes (blue, green and gray) and glasses don't detract from that for me - I love a man in glasses! I have a few male friends and they don't look as good WITHOUT their glasses. They got contacts and I was disappointed. One of my boy cousins looks so good in glasses, but he hides them and won't believe any of the family.

 

My favorite hair color on a man is blond and light brown and, believe it or not, silver (Peter Graves drives me crazy:love:).

[ScreamingTrees]

As a girl I just have to comment on these points.

 

I've read a lot of literary descriptions of attractive men and the authors often use the word "hooked" for a manly nose.

 

I personally love light eyes (blue, green and gray) and glasses don't detract from that for me - I love a man in glasses! I have a few male friends and they don't look as good WITHOUT their glasses. They got contacts and I was disappointed. One of my boy cousins looks so good in glasses, but he hides them and won't believe any of the family.

 

My favorite hair color on a man is blond and light brown and, believe it or not, silver (Peter Graves drives me crazy:love:).

 

No, there's nothing masculine about my nose, it's just the type of nose that most people get plastic surgery for. I also believe I'd look much better in glasses, but still not very good overall.

 

You may be the one in a thousandth person who sort of finds these things attractive, but we're not bumping into each other anytime soon and the odds of anything happening are slim to none. I'm not even talking about you, specifically, but someone like you.

Edited December 14, 2012 by ScreamingTrees

[ScreamingTrees]

Without getting into the specifics... half of your list is either positive or neutral and two of the things you listed as neutral happen to be features (eyes/hair colour) that I have mentioned as things I find attractive in previous posts about my own personal preferences. I'm pointing this in order to make clear that I am not just trying to pat you on the back and make you feel better. The glasses you can get rid of if you honestly think they're cancelling out your eyes. If you've got pretty eyes, which it sounds like you know you do, let people see them. (You don't have to look wise if you are wise.)

 

What I find very interesting here, however, is how much more weight you've given to the negatives than you have your positives. This clearly screams of a lack of objectivity. Your nose and chin may truly suck, but the extent to which they do is something that you are very, very, very (... add another very for each extra "-" you included) likely overestimating. Your positive traits deserve as many "+"s as your negatives deserve "-". Play them up as much as you can and play down the negatives as much as you can. Not the other way around. Every single one of us has flaws, but we have choices regarding how much emphasis we place on them. We also have choices regarding how we choose to see them. This little exercise was intended to make that clear. Your negatives DO NOT deserve that much weight. Every one of us has a list that looks just like yours if we're honest with ourselves, but most of us don't feel that the negs deserve the kind of weight you've given yours.

 

As you're sitting here needlessly tearing yourself to bits, you might want to keep in mind that some of the "ugliest" people in the world have also been recognized as the sexiest... think I'm wrong? Take a look at Keith Richards and Mick Jagger. Those two are reallllllly not aesthetically pleasing humans under any account, but only a fool would think they don't love themselves. They weren't pretty men when they were young either so it isn't as though they've just accepted the inevitable decline that comes with age. How do you think they do it?

 

It really is about perception.

 

I don't think I am over estimating these negatives. Hair and eye color are so irrelevant and subtle, it doesn't mean ****, it's all interchangeable on a nice face/head.

 

I think they're getting just the right amount of "weight" in relation to the positives, if there are any of those.

 

Those guys are "sexy" in spite of being ugly. They're still ugly. People look at them and marvel at their success in SPITE of the thought that "wow, they *really* ARE ugly.." Who knows how they've done it, I'll say they were/are both better looking than I am or will be.

 

I choose to be realistic about the extent to which my nose is hooked, and the severity of my receeding lower jaw. My head is 85% mid-face and 5% lower face. I look much worse from the side profile view, like a completely different person. I can't imagine anyone actually admiring my appearance, I would genuinely imagine that there's something wrong with their senses or perception, and I think I'd actually find a reason to somehow hate them, as strong a word as that may be.

 

I do agree with Leisure, people are lame in general. As poorly and low as I think of myself, I don't think people in general are as attractive as they think they are. It doesn't detract from how disgusting I personally find myself.

[Seductive]

I don't, and I wouldn't. If I had a child that looked exactly like me, I wouldn't say I'd be proud, but I guess it'd be what it is. I don't want to be the one to blame for ugly features, for physical crutches on my children someday. I wouldn't want them to have to overcome a ****load of negatives.

 

I don't see where my platonic male friends tie in to accepting my physical self.

 

 

The logic is if you don't treat a friend badly, why would you do it to yourself? It's more like giving yourself the same compassion that you would to someone else.

 

You call yourself ugly, but ugly is so subjective. Feelings aren't fact. There are a lot of celebrities that think they're ugly when they're not.

 

I know I'm giving you sunshine pop advice, but I wish you all the best in your journey.

[ScreamingTrees]

The logic is if you don't treat a friend badly, why would you do it to yourself? It's more like giving yourself the same compassion that you would to someone else.

 

You call yourself ugly, but ugly is so subjective. Feelings aren't fact. There are a lot of celebrities that think they're ugly when they're not.

 

I know I'm giving you sunshine pop advice, but I wish you all the best in your journey.

 

It's subjective up to an extent. Some people are generally more attractive than others. I'm far from being one of those people.

[Seductive]

It's subjective up to an extent. Some people are generally more attractive than others. I'm far from being one of those people.

 

 

I could be projecting my own issues on here, but have you heard of body dysmorphic disorder?

[pteromom]

Ugly is subjective. Not to an extent. Completely.

 

Sure, there are a few people that most people consider attractive... but even among celebrities, there are always people who find them ugly too.

 

You are being too hard on yourself for things that really really really don't matter.

 

Your nose? Do you know how many women fawn over strong noses?

 

Your chin? Unless it is extreme, it isn't something most people would even notice.

 

Glasses? I don't know anyone who dislikes them, but I know lots of ladies who find them hot.

 

You need to quit analyzing yourself. Other people do not pay this type of detailed attention to the way you look.

 

You are obsessing over the wrong things - the things you CAN'T change. I mean, sure, you could get plastic surgery, but you aren't in a place to do that in a healthy way right now. Table that idea to consider in the future, when you feel balanced and healthy.

 

Instead, why not obsess over what you can change? Learn a new skill. Get a new hobby. Read books on self-esteem and interacting with others and upping your social ability. Join some clubs or meet-ups.

 

While I doubt you are ugly, and believe that you have OCD about your appearance, you CAN just say to yourself "I am ugly, but I am who I am. I will try to accept myself for who I am, even if I don't look the way I wish I looked."

 

Acceptance is the first step, even if you believe that by accepting your looks, you believe that by doing so, you are accepting that nobody will like you or be attracted to you.

 

Then start saying different things to yourself. Instead of saying "I have an ugly nose", think of something you do like about yourself and say that instead. "I know the words to a lot of songs!" "I have cool shoes on today." "I am funny." "I can stretch my head back really far." Whatever it is - find the things you like about yourself and start forcing yourself to notice and appreciate them.

[ScreamingTrees]

I'm mentally healthy right now, I don't see how I view myself is going to change any time soon, unless I was drugged and not of sound, clear mind.

 

http://www.blogcdn.com/main.stylelist.com/media/2010/11/post-your-face-rhinoplasty-chin-implant590.jpg

 

So, some guys prefer girls that have the shark look, and vice versa? Can you picture a guy with this girl's "before" side profile? My forehead isn't as straight, but it's not far off and I have a very strong brow that probably makes it look more sloped than it is.

 

My profile is probably like the girl after she gets rhinoplasty.. My parent thinks I look like the "after" photo, but I know this person is totally full of **** and I've already told them this.

 

Even if I do have such a profile, I somehow look more like her overall before she gets anything done. There's nothing attractive about her profile. Only someone as equally unattractive would believe this, and I don't care how much of an ******* I am, I'm just as ugly if not uglier than her anyway, both on the inside and outside.

 

Honestly, I think that jaw surgery would make my nose appear smaller as it wouldn't be 80% of my face if my lower jaw was in alignment with my upper jaw.

[pteromom]

I guess I am equally unattractive, because I don't see anything wrong with her "before" photo. She looks more generic afterwards, but I think her "before" photo is perfectly fine.

[pteromom]

My parent thinks I look like the "after" photo, but I know this person is totally full of **** and I've already told them this.

 

I think you have a skewed view of how you see yourself, and I would definitely consider this other person's opinion.

 

You also seem singularly focused on your looks, to the point where, yes, it is unhealthy.

[ScreamingTrees]

I guess I am equally unattractive, because I don't see anything wrong with her "before" photo. She looks more generic afterwards, but I think her "before" photo is perfectly fine.

 

Not to say I'm any better, but maybe you are? Her "before" looks like someone with a physical skeletal deformity. The "generic" result is actually how it should naturally be.

 

I take "generic" as to mean more objectively attractive in general.

 

I'm going to be taken to see a psychiatrist soon, specifically for BDD apparently. Hopefully this'll be a chance for me to prove that my concerns are valid, even if it's an unhealthy obsession. I'd be less obsessed if I knew it would be corrected at some point in the future.

[pteromom]

The "generic" result is actually how it should naturally be.

 

This doesn't make sense. Because the result is FAKE. It is not how it should naturally be. We all look different due to race and genetics. We are not supposed to all have the same chin or same nose.

 

I take "generic" as to mean more objectively attractive in general.

 

I mean it as I said it. Her after results are generic. She has removed any features that make her a unique-looking individual, and now looks like a generic person. It's neither good nor bad, and if she is happier after, more power to her, but if she had learned to love herself as she was, that would have been good too.

 

I'm going to be taken to see a psychiatrist soon, specifically for BDD apparently. Hopefully this'll be a chance for me to prove that my concerns are valid, even if it's an unhealthy obsession. I'd be less obsessed if I knew it would be corrected at some point in the future.

 

How exactly will you prove your concerns are valid? You are going to convince a psychiatrist that you are ugly????

 

I am glad you are going in for help with BDD. I think that will be very good for you.

[ScreamingTrees]

This doesn't make sense. Because the result is FAKE. It is not how it should naturally be. We all look different due to race and genetics. We are not supposed to all have the same chin or same nose.

 

 

 

I mean it as I said it. Her after results are generic. She has removed any features that make her a unique-looking individual, and now looks like a generic person. It's neither good nor bad, and if she is happier after, more power to her, but if she had learned to love herself as she was, that would have been good too.

 

 

 

How exactly will you prove your concerns are valid? You are going to convince a psychiatrist that you are ugly????

 

I am glad you are going in for help with BDD. I think that will be very good for you.

 

My parent is the one who wishes for me to go, I never said anything about BDD. I don't think it will help me in any tangible, practical way, but I'm not saying that I wish to remain the same either. I merely believe that the person she has described to me will not be able to change my mind in any way, and I'll likely have a rational answer and explanation for everything that she may say. I'll probably leave the first session with the psychiatrist scratching her head wondering how she could ever "get through to me".. Or maybe even agreeing with some of the points I'll make.

 

I'm certainly not going to try to convince this person that I'm ugly, I'm going to convince them that what I see (a skeletal malocclusion) is the objective reality that those around me do not see apparently, whom deny any evidence to the contrary, and tell me I'm beautiful in my own special way. Well, I seem to be invisible to the opposite sex, at least in my age group, so what good are their kind words? If this problem were corrected, I'd look drastically different in a positive way and would then agree that my insecurities and negative feelings are irrational.

 

Why would skeletal malocclusions, (that typically cause health/skeletal/dental problems, especially over time) be natural? I'll bet you the random girl that I posted probably had physical pain or trouble chewing or swallowing, because it WASN'T natural.. Or was picked on and has a complex or mental issues to overcome, because even if you don't consider it a deformity, there's something that's noticeably different about her that makes her look peculiar and stand out in a way that can draw negative attention.

 

Would you rather be the "generic" little kid who has no difficulty with bullies, unwarranted remarks, getting the interest of others, or be the "unique snowflake" for it's own sake.. When does that pay off? When is that ever of particular benefit?

[Esoteric Elf]

ScreamingTrees, you sound like me in more manner than one. I do believe it is partly genetic, a sort of self-hate that defies egomaniacal natures. My mother tells of my grandmother who was constantly putting herself down though she was beautiful.

 

I think this stems from what psychologist dub the Forer Effect; that is, there is a sort of validation that individuals need to receive from society. Sure, one can deceive oneself, or even look objectively at oneself for one's flaws and positive traits, but if people around the individual give a different view or an indifferent one, the sense of self-esteem plummets, unless one's view is wholly irrevocable from surrounding people.

 

I myself am in a sort of confusing situation. I am told consistently online that I very good looking and look as if I have girlfriends right and left, by the few girls that have seen me and the many boys, but, in real life (and probably due in no small part to my innate silence and shyness), I have received not so much as a word on the matter, giving rise to my ambiguous feelings on the matters of my self-esteem; thus the Forer Effect, the desire to be validated, is not weak.

[ScreamingTrees]

ScreamingTrees, you sound like me in more manner than one. I do believe it is partly genetic, a sort of self-hate that defies egomaniacal natures. My mother tells of my grandmother who was constantly putting herself down though she was beautiful.

 

I think this stems from what psychologist dub the Forer Effect; that is, there is a sort of validation that individuals need to receive from society. Sure, one can deceive oneself, or even look objectively at oneself for one's flaws and positive traits, but if people around the individual give a different view or an indifferent one, the sense of self-esteem plummets, unless one's view is wholly irrevocable from surrounding people.

 

I myself am in a sort of confusing situation. I am told consistently online that I very good looking and look as if I have girlfriends right and left, by the few girls that have seen me and the many boys, but, in real life (and probably due in no small part to my innate silence and shyness), I have received not so much as a word on the matter, giving rise to my ambiguous feelings on the matters of my self-esteem; thus the Forer Effect, the desire to be validated, is not weak.

 

No, it's not my shyness or silence. I'm naturally a reserved, quiet person and I'm not easily shaken. I can communicate and socialize fine when the opportunity presents itself, it's just that I've never had a girl show interest that couldn't have been misconstrued general friendliness and I'm not an aggressively in your face sort of person. I've never had a girl initiate conversation or anything simple and subtle like that. I don't feel I've ever had an opportunity to do a "cold approach" that'd be likely to succeed.

 

I can't find anything on Google about the Forer Effect being related to what you're claiming.

 

I doubt I'm so ugly that people would stop and point and gasp in horror with their eyes bulging out, as people don't do that when I'm out, but I do believe that I'm nearly invisible to the opposite sex and it's difficult to find reciprocated interest in any form.

 

I'm sure if I were to try to connect with women my age in general, it'd soon be clear that I'm the only one interested, there'd be no reciprocation beyond platonic gestures, and thus no point in wasting my time trying to "make friends" with someone I'd inevitably rather date. It's never been easy to make female friends, they've never been drawn to me, never had a girl say much to me, I was basically always ignored, and still am, but I'm so lost in my own little world that it doesn't bother me as it used to.

[SpiralOut]

I wonder why or what they'd be seeing that I'm not, or rather what they're NOT seeing that I do.. I'd wonder what their motives are, if they're looking to use me or what.

 

This is the part of your post that stood out to me. I am very suspicious of people. If they befriend me or ask me out, I wonder what do they want from me.

 

It helps to feel more confident about yourself. But I think there is more to it than just that. Part of it is learning to have faith in other people. Yeah some of them are crappy but not everybody is a user. It's getting easier for me to lower my guard just by realizing that everyone has flaws and it's okay to not be perfect. Others can see your flaws but they can also see everything else about you that is good. A good-hearted person will focus on your positive traits and will like you for you, not for what they can get from you.

[ScreamingTrees]

It helps to feel more confident about yourself. But I think there is more to it than just that. Part of it is learning to have faith in other people. Yeah some of them are crappy but not everybody is a user. It's getting easier for me to lower my guard just by realizing that everyone has flaws and it's okay to not be perfect. Others can see your flaws but they can also see everything else about you that is good. A good-hearted person will focus on your positive traits and will like you for you, not for what they can get from you.

 

Externally, there's not much to appreciate. Internal "attraction" is only worth it's salt for platonic relations.