Why not ask for an open marriage?

[frozensprouts]

If one spouse is unhappy enough int he marriage to have an affair, then why not tell their spouse that they are not happy being monogamous with them and that they want an open marriage?

 

If lack of sex ( or some other issue) is the problem, or if one spouse simply isn't cut out to be monogamous, and they spouse cheats in order to get what they feel is lacking then why not be upfront and ask for an open marriage?

 

Perhaps it's because their spouse wouldn't agree to it ( i don't think i could have, if asked), it's a very difficult thing to ask, or there's something about the affair dynamic that provides something that an open marriage would not.

 

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

[Spark1111]

I'm not sure about an open marriage for me. If asked, I think I would have reacted negatively to it.

 

But (and here is the million dollar question in my book) why not separate?

 

Why not ask for a separation, honestly stating you have developed feelings for another and wish to pursue them?

 

As painful as that would be to hear, and it would be, it would be honest.

 

We could then decide if we want to go to counseling to see if there is a marriage worth saving, and I too could date to get some of my unmet needs met by another man.

 

Why not ask for separation that allows both to date AND have a physical connection with someone other than each other.

 

THAT would be fair.

[TaraMaiden]

This is an issue that people really should discuss up-front..... in the pre-marital discussions, you know.... alongside having kids, what religion (if any) to bring them up in, jobs vs. careers, where you're going to live, who decides on home décor, and who decides what car you have....

 

If a person believes they're in the mood or line for cheating - that needs to be said. Before the cheating occurs....

But an open marriage is something people know they'd be happy with - even before trying the knot.

If this subject comes up post-wedding - and hasn't been discussed before - then one part of the duo isn't going to be too happy....that's for sure...

[sweetjasmine]

If one spouse is unhappy enough int he marriage to have an affair, then why not tell their spouse that they are not happy being monogamous with them and that they want an open marriage?

 

If lack of sex ( or some other issue) is the problem, or if one spouse simply isn't cut out to be monogamous, and they spouse cheats in order to get what they feel is lacking then why not be upfront and ask for an open marriage?

 

One thing I've seen played out is that the cheater often balks at the idea of their faithful partner sleeping with someone else. Those types seem to just want a side piece while their spouse sits at home waiting for them to return. The preferred arrangement seems to be "open marriage for me, closed marriage for you."

[sweet_pea]

Sweet Jasmine, exactly.

 

WS' are selfish and want to be able to get a piece on the side, but still have their faithful, dutiful spouse at home. THEY don't want to be monogamous, but you better believe their spouse should be :roll eyes:

[Woggle]

Because for many cheaters part of the thrill is the lying and deception.

[Realist3]

Because of many factors, it is not a very realistic proposition. Take the Shame thread and his situation. He became attracted to his MOW at some point not knowing what might transpire. In fact he said he never thought she would be interested in him. At that point are you suggesting he should have gone to his wife and said, "Honey, I'd like to have an open marriage." ???? Knowing full well that would have thrown his existing life into full turmoil. All for what? So he spent a year or so having his thing with MOW and decides it was the wrong decision for him. What would have been gained for either party?

[JamesM]

That IS one of the options available, but in many cases the communication connection is already weakened if not broken.

 

To ask for an open marriage would result in such answers as, "Is sex more important than me?" Or "Fine" but in reality it is NOT fine.

 

My wife even told me that if I wanted sex, then I would need to get it elsewhere. I know that if I did, then her response would not have been "fine" after it was over.

 

Affairs don't happen often as a conscious "I have no sex, therefore, I am going to seek it elsewhere." Instead they happen step by step because it looks more attractive than what they have.

 

The proper and less cowardly way would not to be cheating or open marriages. It would be "We have a problem that needs to be fixed. If you don't want to, then I will leave."

 

Unfortunately, many bad marriages end in divorce because the option chosen (albeit not necessarily consciously chosen) to "fix" it is an affair.

 

We can go on and on about "Why did you cheat instead of doing the honorable thing?" We could also ask the one who lost interest in sex to say, "Now why don't you simply tell your husband (or wife) to get sex elsewhere and be okay with it?"

 

Why must we always ask "Why did you cheat" and put the onus on the one who felt the lack of something than to put the responsibility on the one who helped create a marriage that was lacking what the WS needed?

 

I don't condone cheating at all, but I understand it.

 

What I think we also need to focus on is putting more responsibility on the one who let the marriage fall into such a disarray that this question needs to even be asked.

 

Affairs are often a symptom not the actual problem. Asking for an open marriage would simply be a bandaid for the problem. While it may get a discussion started, most likely it will have the same effect as an affair would have...divorce, or a complete rebuilding of the marriage.

[drifter777]

There is one scenario I think discussing it might be the best course of action and that is when a husband or wife completely loses interest in sex as they get older. If the other partner still wants/needs sex then I think they should be honest and tell the other that they want to get sex outside of their marriage. They should be prepared to either live a sexless life or divorce if they say no, but at least it gets the subject out in the open.

[Chi townD]

If it gets to the point in your marriage that the only solution you can think of is to open it up to other people, then you really don't have a marriage anymore.

 

A lot of couples start swinging to "spice it up" usually have two things happen. A few years later they stop swinging and have to go through massive amounts of MC. And the other is divorce.

[todreaminblue]

If one spouse is unhappy enough int he marriage to have an affair, then why not tell their spouse that they are not happy being monogamous with them and that they want an open marriage?

 

If lack of sex ( or some other issue) is the problem, or if one spouse simply isn't cut out to be monogamous, and they spouse cheats in order to get what they feel is lacking then why not be upfront and ask for an open marriage?

 

Perhaps it's because their spouse wouldn't agree to it ( i don't think i could have, if asked), it's a very difficult thing to ask, or there's something about the affair dynamic that provides something that an open marriage would not.

 

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

 

it is because th espouse wouldnt agree...so they hide affairs......th ething is it always comes out......lies always do .....deceit games....the whole baggage of regret adn guilt cannot be carried for long.....an ultimatum is then given adn its over....open marriages are only for people who are not invested in sexual contact with their other half....its a way i gues of having the facade of a relationship.....facades always slip the people break up open marriage over....i was in an open relationship becauee i woudlnt have sex with the guy i was with....he is now a friend...sort of sometimes when he doesnt act like a an agressive gimp he can be quite decent...he has issues .......I will never have sex with him......It wasnt abotu th esex in the relationship when we had it...he is more like a younger brother or even a son...he is older than me..in physical years and behaves like a teen..deb......

[sweetjasmine]

Why must we always ask "Why did you cheat" and put the onus on the one who felt the lack of something than to put the responsibility on the one who helped create a marriage that was lacking what the WS needed?

 

It seems that often the one who is lacking something doesn't actually tell the other one that it's very important and that they're very unhappy about lacking whatever it is.

 

And what about the people who have supposedly happy marriages but cheat anyway?

 

What I think we also need to focus on is putting more responsibility on the one who let the marriage fall into such a disarray that this question needs to even be asked.

 

Why is it just one person who gets the blame for letting the marriage crack? And how does that justify the other laying a bomb next to it so it'll shatter into a million pieces?

 

Asking for an open marriage would simply be a bandaid for the problem. While it may get a discussion started, most likely it will have the same effect as an affair would have...divorce, or a complete rebuilding of the marriage.

 

The difference is if you ask for an open marriage instead of unzipping your pants and you end up divorced, you didn't lie to and betray anyone else in the process.

[KathyM]

People don't ask for an open marriage because, in all likelihood, their spouse would not go along with it, and they know that, so the WS chooses to hang onto his marriage and family while getting some action on the side. Of course, this is very selfish behavior because it is putting the BS in a situation/marriage that is deceitful and dishonest, and gives the BS a false relationship that takes away the BSs choices to live the way she wants (with a faithful monogamous spouse). So the WS or spouse who no longer wants monogamy does not ask for an open marriage in order to preserve his marriage the way he wants it while having his action on the side. For the WS to state his desire for an open marriage rather than cheat would be the honorable thing to do as opposed to cheating, but WSs are generally selfish people who put themselves above others, and therefore would not risk losing the BS or upsetting the marriage by suggesting an open marriage, so they end up having their cake and eating it too. Not a fair thing at all, of course, but that is why they don't suggest an open marriage to the spouse--because they know the answer is likely to be no, and the suggestion will likely cause a rift in the marriage or end it.

[waterwoman]

"what I think we also need to focus on is putting more responsibility on the one who let the marriage fall into such a disarray that this question needs to even be asked."

 

Well that would be both partners then. No marriage fails because only one partner takes the eye of the ball. With or without an affair. Nothing is that damned simple!!! An affair just adds that little bit extra chaos

[woinlove]

I'm in an open M and it requires both spouses to care about the other, to be honest and open, and not to be selfish. I don't think WS qualify. If one is a WS, you have basically shown you would not be capable of maintaining a happy and mutually satisfying open M unless you change into a person who values honesty and openness and is willing to put the needs of your spouse above your own sometimes.

 

I think you are talking about two different kinds of people. The person who has longings or desires and comes to their spouse to talk about opening the M, yes, they might be capable of an open M. But a WS? No, I don't think so, unless they significantly change.

[frozensprouts]

That IS one of the options available, but in many cases the communication connection is already weakened if not broken.

 

this makes sense

 

To ask for an open marriage would result in such answers as, "Is sex more important than me?" Or "Fine" but in reality it is NOT fine.

 

 

My wife even told me that if I wanted sex, then I would need to get it elsewhere. I know that if I did, then her response would not have been "fine" after it was over.

 

Affairs don't happen often as a conscious "I have no sex, therefore, I am going to seek it elsewhere." Instead they happen step by step because it looks more attractive than what they have.

 

I don't know about that, as if someone finds cheating that easy ( so easy that they aren't even aware it's going on until it's too late) then there's much larger problems than lack of sex ( or anything else)

The proper and less cowardly way would not to be cheating or open marriages. It would be "We have a problem that needs to be fixed. If you don't want to, then I will leave."

 

true, but what if it is a problem that simply can't be fixed, or what if the problem lies within the cheater themselves...there are many stories on here where the person cheating was getting lots of sex, intimacy, etc., yet they still cheated...what gives? how can the person's spouse be able to do anything to "fix" that? Some people just don't seem cut out for monogamy, and if they are like that, then why not be honest about it and talk to their spouse?

 

Unfortunately, many bad marriages end in divorce because the option chosen (albeit not necessarily consciously chosen) to "fix" it is an affair.

 

We can go on and on about "Why did you cheat instead of doing the honorable thing?" We could also ask the one who lost interest in sex to say, "Now why don't you simply tell your husband (or wife) to get sex elsewhere and be okay with it?"

 

fair enough...but do consider that that person may not feel there is a problem...

 

Why must we always ask "Why did you cheat" and put the onus on the one who felt the lack of something than to put the responsibility on the one who helped create a marriage that was lacking what the WS needed?

 

umm...because they are the ones who made the decision to cheat...why doesn't the person who is unhappy about the lack of sex say " why don't you want to have sex with me"?

I don't condone cheating at all, but I understand it.

 

What I think we also need to focus on is putting more responsibility on the one who let the marriage fall into such a disarray that this question needs to even be asked.

 

do you hinestly believe that it is one spouse, all on their own, that let it get that way? I'm reminded of thread from several years ago by a man who was angry at his wife because she stopped wanting sex. He was upset, and got lots of sympathy, until some one asked why doesn't she want it"? He finally asked her "why", and turns out, he'd had a couple of one night stands and she was still hurt by it, and found being with him very difficult...she'd hoped that time would help, but it didn't, and she was embarrassed and ashamed. He hadn't wanted to pressure her, so he'd said nothing...

 

Affairs are often a symptom not the actual problem. Asking for an open marriage would simply be a bandaid for the problem. While it may get a discussion started, most likely it will have the same effect as an affair would have...divorce, or a complete rebuilding of the marriage.

 

may be so, but at least there'd be no affair thrown in to make things even worse

 

 

please find responses in bold

[frozensprouts]

I'm in an open M and it requires both spouses to care about the other, to be honest and open, and not to be selfish. I don't think WS qualify. If one is a WS, you have basically shown you would not be capable of maintaining a happy and mutually satisfying open M unless you change into a person who values honesty and openness and is willing to put the needs of your spouse above your own sometimes.

 

I think you are talking about two different kinds of people. The person who has longings or desires and comes to their spouse to talk about opening the M, yes, they might be capable of an open M. But a WS? No, I don't think so, unless they significantly change.

 

i'm a monogamous sort, so i admit to not understanding this subject very well ,but not everyone is, and a friend of mine who's in an open marriage told me it's not about their spouse or anything they /are not doing, but it's about them and their feelings that are separate fro their spouse

 

i was talking about your first situation...if someone really isn't "the monogamous sort", then isn't talking to your spouse about it and trying to find a solution that makes both parties happy the better way to go than cheating?

Edited December 14, 2012 by frozensprouts

[Cb3657]

Duck, taking any idea to the extreme can make it sound silly, bad choices can be made, people can have feelings but we do have controll of our choices, if we didn't we would all be in jail, simply be provoked and your there by your reaction, see how silly any extreme is.

Accountability for your freedom of choice is something we all live with, if it sounds silly to you then good luck dealing with life.

By the way I will not do a quote war with you, so please skip the line by line wall of wailing.

[BetrayedH]

Good grief, Duck. So now you will take the opposite side of the argument you have been making for several days? I suspect it is just for your entertainment now.

 

Always being the devil's advocate leaves you in some poor company.

 

Sadly, I wish we could all predict our potential spouses' behavior (be more selective, as you say) but the reality is that most of us didn't see it coming. And even picking a perfectly innocent virgin is no guarantee since she may eventually get curious, have poor boundaries, make a bad decision. The fact is that it is very difficult to tell who will sucumb to temptation and who will avoid it. We aren't mind readers and don't have crystal balls. We all probably made what we thought were safe choices with our spouses. We were wrong. I would suspect that most of us projected our decent character onto our spouses, assuming they had the same integrity that we do. We were obviously wrong. Sue us. Turns out the other person was a liar and a cheat and managed to fool us. Most (all?) of us wouldn't have married them if we could have predicted this behavior. You were a BS? Did you see it coming? Without the benefit of hindsight, should you have predicted her behavior? Is her choice your fault? You caused her to cheat? She didn't deprive you of the right to make an informed choice during her affair?

 

Come on. Get real and quit making arguments just for the sake of winning a debate.

[KathyM]

Actually it doesn't take away the BS's choice.

Of course it takes away her choice. She is kept in the marriage under false pretenses. She is kept in the dark about the reality of the marriage. If she knew he was cheating, she would have the choice to either leave the marriage, forgive and try to fix the marriage, or make it an open marriage where she is also allowed to see others. She would have that choice. But by the WS keeping her in the dark, she is only given the choice of staying in the marriage under false pretenses.

The WS's actions have no influence on his/her BS. This is according to the theory propounded by many people who claim that the BS's actions have no influence on the WS.

 

Neither of the spouses' respective actions are capable of affecting the other's choices, since each person is 100% in control of their own actions.

What the heck? lol. Each partner's actions affect the other spouse.

If the BS finds out about the cheating, no choice has been taken away, as the BS is free to leave the relationship. Or stay in it--as many seem to have done. That choice is solely up to the BS.

Yes, if she finds out about the cheating, she has the choice to take action in response to that. But when the WS cheats and the BS is kept in the dark about it, then her choices are taken away.

 

 

 

 

 

But that doesn't matter, since nothing either of the spouses does has a causal affect on what the other spouse feels or does.

Say what?

 

 

 

 

 

But the BS had the free choice of who to marry, and if they chose a "generally selfish" person, it's the BS's own fault for not being selective enough. The BS was free to be more selective. The problem is that cheaters often have many attractive traits. It's the BS's fault for selecting a partner based on the glossy surface traits rather than holding until finding someone with character and integrity.

I think the vast majority of people who get married do so believing their spouse does have character and integrity and would not cheat on them.

Look at any dating web site. How many people list "character" and "integrity" as their requirements in a partner? Virtually zero.

It's pretty much assumed that those traits are expected. Nobody wants a cheater on a dating website unless they are a cheater themselves.

 

Additionally, if the BS was concerned about cheating, the BS could have demanded tighter controls on the WS's behaviors to control that risk.

People trust their spouse unless he has proven he can't be trusted. Trying to police your spouse is not called for if he has not given you reason to doubt his fidelity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The BS is free to leave the relationship if they don't want to stay with a cake-eater. Free choice.

I think you misunderstood my post. I'm saying the BS has no choice if they don't know he is cheating. She has a choice when the cheating comes to light. When she is kept in the dark, her choice is taken away, and she is made to stay in the relationship under false pretenses.

 

 

 

 

 

That's just being smart.

You trying to be sarcastic? Playing devil's advocate?

[road]

Actually it doesn't take away the BS's choice. The WS's actions have no influence on his/her BS. This is according to the theory propounded by many people who claim that the BS's actions have no influence on the WS.

 

Neither of the spouses' respective actions are capable of affecting the other's choices, since each person is 100% in control of their own actions.

 

If the BS finds out about the cheating, no choice has been taken away, as the BS is free to leave the relationship. Or stay in it--as many seem to have done. That choice is solely up to the BS.

 

 

 

 

 

The WS lying and hiding the truth prevents the BS from finding out takes away the BS's choice to recover or divorce.

[Realist3]

What DuckSoup was attempting to do was 'turn the argument on its head', andwas quite successful.

[woinlove]

What DuckSoup was attempting to do was 'turn the argument on its head', andwas quite successful.

 

Not to any person who sees the difference between, for example, (1) a spouse agreeing to move while not knowing the WS is lying and tricking him/her just so that the WS can be closer to their secret AP, and (2) a spouse deciding to lie to and deceive their spouse.

 

To come to the other spouse to ask for an open M would require a level of honesty and openness and that seems to be lacking in those who choose to be a WS instead or who support that behavior.

[Realist3]

Not to any person who sees the difference between, for example, (1) a spouse agreeing to move while not knowing the WS is lying and tricking him/her just so that the WS can be closer to their secret AP, and (2) a spouse deciding to lie to and deceive their spouse.

 

To come to the other spouse to ask for an open M would require a level of honesty and openness and that seems to be lacking in those who choose to be a WS instead or who support that behavior.

 

 

Of course.

 

As someone else posted in coming forward with an open marriage proposal carries a huge amount of risk, you are basically risking the end of the M with the question. For me that was not something I was willing to do before or even after I became a WS. I had no desire to go hunting for sex partners so why bring it up? It wasn't until after my A was discovered by my wife that the topic had any real meaning.

 

I'm not that well versed in open marriages, so I don't know if my situation fits within the classic definition. I don't want multiple partners. I found one that I enjoy a great friendship and sex with. But in the end, my wife is okay with it, and they have become friends.

[ComingInHot]

Open Marrieges are SO WEIRD to me!!

I just know it wouldn't work for me OR my husband because he gets jealous & he did cheat...

I guess I didn't learn how to "share" properly as a child. lol