Methods of discovery

[Decorative]

I'm glad you have you have convinced yourself that people you don't know, know what is going on. They don't.

 

I'm not sure what sort of pleasure you derive from jumping to all of these wild conclusions, but you are terribly wrong. No one at the school knows or even suspects anything. There is no reason for them to do so.

 

We do not feel persecuted in any way.

 

If I were unlucky enough to have you as my spouse I would hand you the evidence.

 

You would not have lasted five minutes on a first date with me. LOL

[Realist3]

I can believe that some of our ways of catching a cheater may be outdated. Do you have some examples of ways to catch cheaters that are more effective then our examples?

 

 

I really don't. As I stated previously, I think the GPS on the vehicle is the most effective current method. If you live in NYC, probably not, but everywhere else that alone creates an obstacle. You must have an alibi for where your vehicle is at any given time. Most people aren't going to walk where they are going. The phone tracker is good, but that is easily remedied by another phone and call/text forwarding.

 

Financial tracking is exceedingly difficult. ACH deposits allow you to divert a portion of income into accounts that the BS has no clue about.

 

Aside from the gps I think the most effective is personal interaction. It is very difficult for people hide when they like someone else. Those gut instincts are awfully powerful.

[Realist3]

Realist;

I probably missed it but why are you married again?

 

Kids, money, and social life.

[BetrayedH]

I think it is true that once the methods employed by the BS are known by the WS, they lose efficacy big-time.

 

Once I caught my wife with the GPS, I stopped using it. She would have just used his car to leave work instead. Once she knew that I had researched her computer, she was certainly smart enough not to use her computer to contact him again. It goes on and on. I had to change tactics several times.

 

Thus, you should never reveal your sources. Right Alice? Most of us have a hard time not confronting our WS once we have proof so we make mistakes initially. We're human.

 

Fortunately, if you really want to know what someone is up to, you can still find out. My wife wasn't stupid (quite the contrary); you just can't outsmart hypervigilance indefinitely.

 

As for "controlling," I had no interest in controlling my wife whatsoever. But I most certainly wanted to know if she was being truthful during our reconciliation. Don't we deserve a little truth? I wanted to know if she would "never lie to me again" as she had said to me with such a straight face. Turns out she was still lying and wasted 7 months of our time. WTF? Why not just call it quits and save everyone the drama? Because that would take courage and character.

[Spark1111]

Ya know, like the therapist told me two weeks after dday, he or she could just get another phone, or email account, or whatever.

 

I blinked. He was correct. At some point I had to just tune into my gut and trust it.

 

I did not stop snooping when he begged to reconcile, but I did stop policing.

 

it was very liberating to do so.

[beenburned]

He thinks this is something to be proud of!

[Realist3]

Not proud of it, just stating what is.

[Owl]

I can agree that for every measure to find the truth, there is a counter-measure. And for every counter-measure, there is a counter-counter-measure. And so on and so forth.

 

Part of the "trick" if you will is for the BS to employ multiple methods, with the 'hope' that the WS doesn't come up with counters to all of them.

 

I can think of a simple way that Realist might get caught, if his OW's H thought of it.

 

I won't post it offhand, as I'd rather not give him the opportunity to prepare a counter-measure based off my response. I personally feel that her BS deserves to know the truth, just as any other does.

 

So my personal advice to BS's looking to find out the truth is to use your head, be creative, and use numerous, multiple methods to find information and cross reference that information as need be.

 

On the cross-reference note...this is how I gathered info on my wife's OM. In fact, I would have loved to have seen the look on his face when I called him on his work phone that he hadn't used to communicate with my wife...I could tell by the rattle in his voice that it shook him to realize that I could get that kind of info in the short time I had learned of the affair.

[merrmeade]

Ya know, like the therapist told me two weeks after dday, he or she could just get another phone, or email account, or whatever.

I blinked. He was correct. At some point I had to just tune into my gut and trust it.

I did not stop snooping when he begged to reconcile, but I did stop policing.

it was very liberating to do so.

 

Yeah, there comes a point that you have to give it a rest. I basically told myself that, well, I did it once I'll do it again.

 

That said, here are all the ways to check records:

 

Browsers:

Check every browser's History - Safari, Firefox, Chrome, Opera. Even if s/he deleted every email, if s/he didn't also delete the cache in history, you will still have a record of every email viewed. This is really the best place to start. You can see everything s/he is looking at on any given day. You should be sure to delete your prowling cookies afterward.

 

Social media sites:

There are more and more nowadays. If you can get into his/her accounts (know passwords, can guess or they're saved on the computer), check Facebook, LinkedIn, StumbleUpon and any other social media sites s/he might frequent, especially check the messages.

 

Email:

Be sure to check all folders, including trash. Especially check the Sent folder.

Do a search using every possible search term and address that could have information.

Always search for "confirmation," "order," "shipped," "tickets," "shipment" to get possible gifts or tickets ordered online.

Then sweep up after yourself, if s/he doesn't know you're snooping, by marking as unread anything new that you read. Go to the browser's history and delete forever all the searches you did. Remove the trail.

 

Phone:

Obviously check text messages. There are free online downloads for retrieving deleted messages.

Check phone records online so you can sort the columns of each phone bill by number. Click above the column to get it to sort alphabetically or chronologically. Know who each number belongs, especially the ones called the most. Look at the time of day and the numbers of times. Pull up a calendar and figure out where s/he was and what was going on. Do the same for msgs.

 

Bank:

Bank records are great if s/he uses the card for a lot of purchases. Leaves a good trail of where s/he has been, when, big cash withdrawals, gifts, tickets. We have separate accounts so I really didn't know.

[Spark1111]

perhaps I am growing cynical.

 

Why is there one needy, over the top, drama king or queen with tall tales, one or more uncaring or abusive spouses, one needy "hooked" MAP, lots of subterfuge and surveillance busting in an affair?

 

As a former writer, does anyone else see this almost cliched plot, over and over and over again?

 

Realist, this is why you have SOOOO many predicting the end of the story; detection, high-drama, under-the-bus hurling and heartbreak.

 

By the sounds of it, I, and others here, are trying to warn you it will be you, no matter how savvy you think you are.

 

The story almost ALWAYS ends the same, and no matter what lengths you goto reassure YOURSELF this will not happen to you, most of us are betting, yes, it will.

 

Now that's ME being a realist.

[Realist3]

OK.

 

How do you internally reconcile the fact that you are cheating?

 

I have never really had an issue with it. And now espcially since it has been so long I just consider it part of my life. I don't think about it.

 

[qoute]Do you rationalize to feel good about it?

 

Probably on some level I do or did. In the other thread about 'causes' there were certainly factors that led to my decision, but in terms of felling 'good' about it now not really. The relationship itself makes me feel good.

 

Is there a code of ethics for cheaters?

 

We have our own code if you choose to call it that. Ours is pretty limited. Never admit to the relationship, although I failed that one, and once our R/A is no longer a positive for either one of us that it will ended in an amicable fashion.

 

I am not trying to be mean. I am simply curious. Most people that are cheating somehow find some mechanism to make it look like an altruistic endeavor. Some go as far as to say they are trying to help the MOM or MOW fix their marriage.

 

That is not the case with me. I'm not fixing anything. We are just enjoying each other's company on this journey we call life, and we made that perfectly clear right from the beginning.

 

So how do you deal with your cheating?

 

Do you suppress what you are doing?

 

How do I deal with it? I deal with it like I deal with any friendship. It is not really any different except we are very close friends that sleep together.

 

I don't really have the need to suppress anything at this point. Of course I don't go talking about how great the sex was out in the open, but other than that I don't shy away from mentioning her or discussing her.

[Realist3]

perhaps I am growing cynical.

 

Why is there one needy, over the top, drama king or queen with tall tales, one or more uncaring or abusive spouses, one needy "hooked" MAP, lots of subterfuge and surveillance busting in an affair?

 

As a former writer, does anyone else see this almost cliched plot, over and over and over again?

 

Realist, this is why you have SOOOO many predicting the end of the story; detection, high-drama, under-the-bus hurling and heartbreak.

 

By the sounds of it, I, and others here, are trying to warn you it will be you, no matter how savvy you think you are.

 

The story almost ALWAYS ends the same, and no matter what lengths you goto reassure YOURSELF this will not happen to you, most of us are betting, yes, it will.

 

Now that's ME being a realist.

 

It very well may end that way. None of us know.

 

But the predictions I read here are not so much predictions, but wild assumptions regarding motive and behaviors, which simply to not reflect the reality of my situation. I know there are so many people here that recite textbook cases over and over again that is becomes easy to try and read what some believe to be a pattern.

 

When somone comes out and says, "Your wife doesn't care and that must hurt you on some level.", etc. etc., that is not a prediction, that is an attempt to be hurtful. I don't mind predictions, but I think the attempts to guess motives and actions are unnecessary.

[dreamingoftigers]

Kids, money, and social life.

 

This isn't 1954....

 

You can have your kids and the freedom to pursue OW, you can keep your own paycheck for the most part. Men's standard of living goes up 4% after divorce. And social life? Really? Divorced people aren't tarred, feathered and left on the side of town. They just move on or start dating again and get remarried.

 

All this is doing is robbing your wife of a chance to be with someone that would actually respect her. And it's robbing your kids of any chance at a normal foundation with a normal, non-narcissistic father.

 

I know. My father pulled the same garbage. He was a crappy father. It was all about him.

[Realist3]

This isn't 1954....

 

You can have your kids and the freedom to pursue OW, you can keep your own paycheck for the most part. Men's standard of living goes up 4% after divorce. And social life? Really? Divorced people aren't tarred, feathered and left on the side of town. They just move on or start dating again and get remarried.

 

All this is doing is robbing your wife of a chance to be with someone that would actually respect her. And it's robbing your kids of any chance at a normal foundation with a normal, non-narcissistic father.

 

I know. My father pulled the same garbage. He was a crappy father. It was all about him.

 

So, I'm old fashioned. I want my kids to have a stable life without being torn between two homes. Just the way I am.

 

My standard of living would not change andneither would hers. The money issue is more about the number of businesses and parcels of property, oil leases, etc. that would have to be split up. It gives me a headache just thinking about it. It is very complicated.

 

Socially, yes that is important to me. That also includesour familieswhich are very close.

 

My wife has the choice and chance to do whetever she so pleases. I havenever attempted to stop her from doing whatever she wants to do. She knows.

 

Thanks for the lecture.

[Realist3]

In this regard he is just like every mundane MOM.

 

True that...

[merrmeade]

So, I'm old fashioned. I want my kids to have a stable life without being torn between two homes. Just the way I am.

 

My standard of living would not change andneither would hers. The money issue is more about the number of businesses and parcels of property, oil leases, etc. that would have to be split up. It gives me a headache just thinking about it. It is very complicated.

 

Socially, yes that is important to me. That also includesour familieswhich are very close.

 

My wife has the choice and chance to do whetever she so pleases. I havenever attempted to stop her from doing whatever she wants to do. She knows.

 

Thanks for the lecture.

 

But how does she FEEL about it? You haven't said. Do you talk about it? Do you care? Do you love your wife? Really. I'd like to know.

 

I realize it's not clearly not as interesting as talking about your escapades.

[alexandria35]

Realist your story on these boards sure has changed since your first thread here just 5 months ago. Remember your first thread?

 

In that thread your wife didn't know about the affair. She just said if you were cheating to keep it out of your face. That's not knowing. You're two oldest kids did know of the affair and were active participants in deceiving their mother. You thought that was okay because the 11 yr old doesn't like her mother anyways and actually wishes the OW were her mom and she understands how destructive divorce can be so she understands the importance of the secret. Oh and your OW told her husbands sister all about the affair too.

 

Over your time here your story has changed little by little and now it's become that your not even cheating because your wife knows everything and you've been seperated but living together for years. And now you're here boasting about how smart you and the OW are in escaping detection, going to great cloak and dagger lengths to avoid getting caught which sounds so incredibily stupid considering that there are at least 3 people who already know all about your affair and who could spill the beans at any time.

[Realist3]

But how does she FEEL about it? You haven't said. Do you talk about it? Do you care? Do you love your wife? Really. I'd like to know.

 

I realize it's not clearly not as interesting as talking about your escapades.

 

She feels okay with it. She is now friends with the MOW. And I have stated this many times.

 

We don't talk about it. At this point it is a settled issue. What is there to talk about? Of course I love my wife, if I didn't I would have left long long ago. I'm just not 'in love' with her.

[Realist3]

Realist your story on these boards sure has changed since your first thread here just 5 months ago. Remember your first thread?

 

In that thread your wife didn't know about the affair. She just said if you were cheating to keep it out of your face. That's not knowing. You're two oldest kids did know of the affair and were active participants in deceiving their mother. You thought that was okay because the 11 yr old doesn't like her mother anyways and actually wishes the OW were her mom and she understands how destructive divorce can be so she understands the importance of the secret. Oh and your OW told her husbands sister all about the affair too.

 

Over your time here your story has changed little by little and now it's become that your not even cheating because your wife knows everything and you've been seperated but living together for years. And now you're here boasting about how smart you and the OW are in escaping detection, going to great cloak and dagger lengths to avoid getting caught which sounds so incredibily stupid considering that there are at least 3 people who already know all about your affair and who could spill the beans at any time.

 

My wife did know back then, and my oldest kid did know. And I will say that from input from the forum I took more steps to keep it from my oldest daughter.

[Realist3]

My wife didn't know who at that point.

[eleanorrigby]

She feels okay with it. She is now friends with the MOW. And I have stated this many times.

 

We don't talk about it. At this point it is a settled issue. What is there to talk about? Of course I love my wife, if I didn't I would have left long long ago. I'm just not 'in love' with her.

 

I'm wondering some of the same things as Alexandria.

 

Since your daughter prefers the MOW to her mother, have you thought about making a home for her with your MOW? Wouldn't she be happier in a family setting with two people that are in love with each other?

 

Could you hire someone to help you dismantle all your joined accounts and businesses so you wouldn't have to go to the trouble and headache?

 

If you were to divorce, do you believe that your families will no longer be close? What would change?

[nofool4u]

She feels okay with it.

 

I bet she is. She is now free to be with other men.

 

 

We don't talk about it. At this point it is a settled issue. What is there to talk about?

 

Nothing, you now have an open marriage and she is free to be with other men.

[ComingInHot]

Realist;

So, you're proud of out smarting or "defeating" the OW' s BS, You're proud of your OW, you're proud of you're social status BUT you're NOT proud of the Affair. Is that right?

Of that is so, and being the way you are, are you here making up for your lack of Pride in the A by boasting how prideful you are of all your other accomplishments socially & personally?

How's that working for you?**

[Radu]

Realist3, what would happen if you found out that your wife was cheating and was unapologetic about it ?

[nofool4u]

Realist3, what would happen if you found out that your wife was cheating and was unapologetic about it ?

 

It doesn't matter. She is free to have sex with whoever she wants now. She agreed to an open marriage after the revelation of his cheating.

 

So she doesn't have to apologize for anything. She is free now to do as she wishes.