Marital therapy? Does it WORK?

[promises]

Well, they can answer what their experiences were or what they know of therapy.

[Decorative]

I come from a position of being a marriage therapist who works with couples to restore their marriages. By the time the couple come in for counseling, the BS normally knows about the infidelity. The couple are not encouraged by the therapist to tell others about the infidelity. The infidelity is a very personal, difficult aspect of the marriage, and only the married couple are encouraged to be honest with each other, not with outsiders. IMO, outsiders should not be told about the affair. This is for the couple to work out in therapy. We work on finding out what are the strengths and weaknesses of the marriage, and we work on building on the strengths in the marriage, and building back those areas that have become weak or what has never been strong, such as communication, affection, time investment in the marriage, and appreciation of your spouse.

 

I know from reading your posts that you are a thoughtful and considerate person, with much kindness to offer.

 

But I would have run screaming from therapy such as above. It's like prescribing physical therapy for an ankle sprain while I am bleeding out from a stab wound an inch from my heart.

 

And I don't live a life of secrets. I didn't take out a billboard, and neither did my spouse, but we are honest when necessary about our past situation, and it has been a benefit to us. We had an amazing counselor, and wonderful IC help.

 

I think marriage counseling is tough. There are some amazing counselors out there. And some terrible ones. I have no doubt you are a wonderful person, but if you proposed that as treatment to me- I would thank you for your time and leave.

[Decorative]

Well, I agree with you. That's why I want to know how therapy goes down. Listen, I know that she absolutely hates me. This thread isn't intended to give her a pat on the back for that or me for anything . She's demonstrated very real agression and I would like to know what happens to brace myself and my family if I need to .

 

You have no need for information about how their therapy goes.

 

Remove yourself from the equation.

 

It is the only way you will heal, and your best chance of them leaving you alone.

[thomasb]

My wife and I did have therapy with the Harleys. They were very competent. They went through all the steps with us. It went very much the same as in Sparks case. Exposure to everyone on both sides and honesty all around. I also had a few months of individual therapy also. It was actually nice to get all that dishonesty of my chest. It feels good to live in a world of decency and integrity again. We had MC for about 3 mths. I had IC for around 9 mts. And since it has been over a decade I would say it worked well!

[KathyM]

I know from reading your posts that you are a thoughtful and considerate person, with much kindness to offer.

 

But I would have run screaming from therapy such as above. It's like prescribing physical therapy for an ankle sprain while I am bleeding out from a stab wound an inch from my heart.

 

And I don't live a life of secrets. I didn't take out a billboard, and neither did my spouse, but we are honest when necessary about our past situation, and it has been a benefit to us. We had an amazing counselor, and wonderful IC help.

 

I think marriage counseling is tough. There are some amazing counselors out there. And some terrible ones. I have no doubt you are a wonderful person, but if you proposed that as treatment to me- I would thank you for your time and leave.

I work on restoring a marriage and rebuilding trust, if the goal for the couple is to reconcile. I leave it up to the couple about who in their family they want to inform about the affair. It is not my place to make that decision for them or encourage them to tell others. I don't believe that telling others outside of the marriage is helpful, but I leave that decision up to the couple involved. My job, as a therapist, is to help them restore their marriage, and build back their feelings for each other and their relationship. And to help them to be honest with each other, and rebuild trust. I have to be neutral and supportive of both partners in therapy, with the goal of restoring the marriage if that is their goal.

[promises]

My wife and I did have therapy with the Harleys. They were very competent. They went through all the steps with us. It went very much the same as in Sparks case. Exposure to everyone on both sides and honesty all around. I also had a few months of individual therapy also. It was actually nice to get all that dishonesty of my chest. It feels good to live in a world of decency and integrity again. We had MC for about 3 mths. I had IC for around 9 mts. And since it has been over a decade I would say it worked well!

 

Happy to hear that ! Thanks for sharing .

[Decorative]

I work on restoring a marriage and rebuilding trust, if the goal for the couple is to reconcile. I leave it up to the couple about who in their family they want to inform about the affair. It is not my place to make that decision for them or encourage them to tell others. I don't believe that telling others outside of the marriage is helpful, but I leave that decision up to the couple involved. My job, as a therapist, is to help them restore their marriage, and build back their feelings for each other and their relationship. And to help them to be honest with each other, and rebuild trust. I have to be neutral and supportive of both partners in therapy, with the goal of restoring the marriage if that is their goal.

 

I very much appreciate your further explanation.

 

Do you address the immediate problem of the affair - or begin with the state of the marriage prior to the affair? Your first post indicated that you deal with the state of the marriage, not the affair. Which is what I would object to in a therapeutic setting.

 

Our first marital therapist was awful. Her goal originally was to get me to change everything about me- telling me I needed to go back and get another graduate degree so I would be more interesting to my spouse, and telling me that the problem in the marriage was me- calling me unfulfilled- based only at that point on a questionnaire given before our first appointment where I stated my occupation as SAHM.

 

When it was revealed that my spouse was cheating - she told me it was my job to help him transition to his soulmate. And that again- it was my fault for not keeping him interested.

 

Even my spouse, who was gaslighting me at that point- was horrified. We never went back- and she stalked me to some degree after that. It was awful.

 

In subsequent counseling- our therapist was awesome. Insisting that both of us have IC to make sure each side of the street we lived on was clean and healthy, and then guiding us through the landmines of dealing with the affair. Which brought us closer together after the rift of the affair.

 

Lastly- we dealt with our marriage. The therapist and my husband were very clear not to blame the marriage for the cheating. And helped us learn healthy patterns to deal with my husband's longstanding issues- which did include telling me to be firmer in how I dealt with some of his issues that I had always just tried to "nice" away before.

 

I guess I am leery of counseling that describes starting a new marriage ( because really, you have to eventually draw a line and burn the house down and begin again) as a communication/marital issue between the spouses.

 

Though, I guess in retrospect, we did have a communication issue. He was not communicating to me that he had a girlfriend. LOL

[KathyM]

I very much appreciate your further explanation.

 

Do you address the immediate problem of the affair - or begin with the state of the marriage prior to the affair? Your first post indicated that you deal with the state of the marriage, not the affair. Which is what I would object to in a therapeutic setting.

 

Our first marital therapist was awful. Her goal originally was to get me to change everything about me- telling me I needed to go back and get another graduate degree so I would be more interesting to my spouse, and telling me that the problem in the marriage was me- calling me unfulfilled- based only at that point on a questionnaire given before our first appointment where I stated my occupation as SAHM.

 

When it was revealed that my spouse was cheating - she told me it was my job to help him transition to his soulmate. And that again- it was my fault for not keeping him interested.

 

Even my spouse, who was gaslighting me at that point- was horrified. We never went back- and she stalked me to some degree after that. It was awful.

 

In subsequent counseling- our therapist was awesome. Insisting that both of us have IC to make sure each side of the street we lived on was clean and healthy, and then guiding us through the landmines of dealing with the affair. Which brought us closer together after the rift of the affair.

 

Lastly- we dealt with our marriage. The therapist and my husband were very clear not to blame the marriage for the cheating. And helped us learn healthy patterns to deal with my husband's longstanding issues- which did include telling me to be firmer in how I dealt with some of his issues that I had always just tried to "nice" away before.

 

I guess I am leery of counseling that describes starting a new marriage ( because really, you have to eventually draw a line and burn the house down and begin again) as a communication/marital issue between the spouses.

 

Though, I guess in retrospect, we did have a communication issue. He was not communicating to me that he had a girlfriend. LOL

The affair HAS to be dealt with. There is no progress that can be made without dealing with the affair. I encourage a couple to be completely honest with each other about the affair, and then help them to rebuild trust and establish boundaries to protect their relationship in the future.

 

The advice that you got from your first therapist was awful. You should help your husband to transition to his OW? I believe in helping the couple to, first of all, get everything out into the open between them, explore what led to the affair, help them to both communicate their feelings towards each other with regard to the affair, and then start the rebuilding process if their goal is to reconcile, by establishing measures that will help to rebuild trust, establishing boundaries to protect their relationship, and identifying the strengths and weaknesses in their relationship, build upon the strengths, and build up those areas that were weak.

[thomasb]

I feel exposure was a big help to us. We found out fast who the true friends of the marriage were and who were not. The nots were immediatly cut out of our lives. We built an immoveable and impregnable fortress around our family which centered on our marriage. I learned a lot about boundaries and consequences.

[thomasb]

Like shaming them back in line?

 

 

Patently ridiculous. Either you want to reconcile or you don't. Do you really believe a wife has her husbands balls hanging hostage in the basement! The divorce rate show differently. If a man wants to leave... he does. Every 'reason' he gives not to is simply... an excuse.

[herenow]

IMO, the fact that both of them are going to MC is a good sign that she is willing to work on the marriage together with her H. A good therapist will address the affair and then shorty after that "you" the OW will become irrelevant to the process. I would expect anger, maybe from both of them, at first. Then, if the marriage is on the right track, you will never hear a word from either one of them again.

[Decorative]

The affair HAS to be dealt with. There is no progress that can be made without dealing with the affair. I encourage a couple to be completely honest with each other about the affair, and then help them to rebuild trust and establish boundaries to protect their relationship in the future.

 

The advice that you got from your first therapist was awful. You should help your husband to transition to his OW? I believe in helping the couple to, first of all, get everything out into the open between them, explore what led to the affair, help them to both communicate their feelings towards each other with regard to the affair, and then start the rebuilding process if their goal is to reconcile, by establishing measures that will help to rebuild trust, establishing boundaries to protect their relationship, and identifying the strengths and weaknesses in their relationship, build upon the strengths, and build up those areas that were weak.

 

Okay. So I would not run out of your office with this explanation. LOL

[carhill]

Marital therapy worked great. Clarity, understanding, ownership and responsibility. I'm eternally thankful to my exW for suggesting it and I sacrificed some of my retirement to pay for it. Worth every nickel.

 

Each couple will reach their own resolution. Ours was divorce, as well as the release of a long emotional investment in an unhealthy dynamic for myself. I think all parties are healthier for the process, from what I've observed in the four years since.

 

Is this where the details of the affair are encouraged to surface? Does it actually work? How long does it go on? Etc., etc.

 

Depends on the situation. We entered therapy with my exW fully cognizant of my affair. No question was unanswered. We knew exactly what work was needed and the psychologist's job was to guide us through the work.

 

Relevant to other comments in the thread, our psychologist supported my opinion that marital business, ALL marital business, not that simply confined to affairs, is the property of the marriage and is not to be disclosed to third parties without the consent of BOTH parties. Hence, I never disclosed any of our prior marital discord to ANYONE. The most compelling comment I made during the active A to my affair partner was that I was not receiving any emotional support during a difficult period and that I felt abandoned. Nothing more specific than that. Anything else the person learned/verified on her own through direct contact with my exW and formed their opinion of the other and myself independently. Other people were told NOTHING (by myself). I learned this perspective from many years of hearing marital re-writes from MW's who'd spill their marital beans to nearly anyone who'd listen, generally to gain sympathy and attention. Some of it, independently verified, was fabrication, hence the resultant perspective.

 

When a person, generally a MW, wants my ear today, I tell them directly to share the information with a professional counselor, preferably a marital counselor, and work the problem in the marriage with a disinterested third party. Does it work all the time? No! The same as with any therapy, it depends upon the people involved, both the person(s) seeking therapy as well as the therapist themselves. No guarantees.

[promises]

Thanks for your honesty , carhill. And , one of the first to not blame the AP...Which I find interesting. Refreshing on LS.

[Decorative]

Thanks for your honesty , carhill. And , one of the first to not blame the AP...Which I find interesting. Refreshing on LS.

 

You had a lot of help from betrayed spouses on this thread that were kind to you. We took our time and answered you nicely, and said kind things to you. We encouraged you to move forward and not to look back. Many of us shared how the process worked.

 

But because we did not excuse you from your actions, and even though we told you that marital therapy should not focus on you, that's not the same to you?

 

Good to know.

[carhill]

My recollection of the therapy process, a long one in our case, was a complete absence of focus on the 'affair partner', as a person, but rather as a symbol of what that choice by myself represented in our marital dynamic. The work focused on the marriage and I was roundly and fairly criticized for my poor and hurtful choices. That process focused solely on myself. The affair partner was not relevant to that process. This was the furnace where understanding 'cause', 'choice' and 'responsibility' as separate issues was forged. I was compelled to understand the process of the affair and why it could be unhealthy and inappropriate; essentially, to be open to another perspective than my own at the time.

 

As each therapeutic process, and the clients, is different, the anecdotes will be unique. IMO, there is no 'universal' truth here. For some posters, the process resulted in a renewal of their marriage; for myself it resulted in divorce. I'm happy for them and for myself. Different results can be positive ones. Life is like that.

[promises]

Thankful for all responses. General statememt, outside of this thread. Dont really have a lot of fight in me after this experience . Just as exMM BS are doing..I need to now protecty family. Hence the thread.

[2sure]

Our MC focused first on our communication skills with each other.

That didn't work because my X was not able to communicate in an honest way.

In any case, it was about the marriage and about the why....not about OW.

 

For what it's worth. When I am feeling betrayed or defensive I am capable of almost anything. I have a temper and I have patience and I have a pretty far reach in some areas. OWomen apologized to me and that was all I needed.

[sweet_pea]

I'm still confused as to how THEIR marriage counseling is any of your business (I know that came off snarky, I apologize).

 

What they talk about, the affair, you, whatever, is between them.

 

I know you said you felt like the MM "tricked" you, can you explain? If you knew he was married, how did he trick you?

 

Once again, not trying to be rude. Just a little foggy as to why you are so concerned about what the WS and BS speak about in marriage counseling.

[promises]

I'm still confused as to how THEIR marriage counseling is any of your business (I know that came off snarky, I apologize).

 

What they talk about, the affair, you, whatever, is between them.

 

I know you said you felt like the MM "tricked" you, can you explain? If you knew he was married, how did he trick you?

 

Once again, not trying to be rude. Just a little foggy as to why you are so concerned about what the WS and BS speak about in marriage counseling.

 

I didn't take it as snarky

 

I would rather not say here exactly why I feel the way I do about being 'tricked' or whatever the best word is, however.

 

I don't need to know exactly "what" they talk about in therapy. I'm asking what is the general progression of therapy, and if all details of the affair are shared.

 

Last I heard from him he basically gave me a mouthful of lies he told her. Trying to collaborate stories??? I have no idea.

 

She felt punched. She punched back. If I have more punches coming at me, I'd like to be prepared. i.e., do I need to move? do I need to warn my family?

 

These have been helpful responses.

[2sure]

I didn't take it as snarky

 

I would rather not say here exactly why I feel the way I do about being 'tricked' or whatever the best word is, however.

 

I don't need to know exactly "what" they talk about in therapy. I'm asking what is the general progression of therapy, and if all details of the affair are shared.

 

Last I heard from him he basically gave me a mouthful of lies he told her. Trying to collaborate stories??? I have no idea.

 

She felt punched. She punched back. If I have more punches coming at me, I'd like to be prepared. i.e., do I need to move? do I need to warn my family?

 

These have been helpful responses.

 

Promises...it sounds like you must have a very serious reason to cover your a$$.

I can't help but be curious what it is as well as why on earth you took the risk...but there's no way to know what someone else will do.

[promises]

Promises...it sounds like you must have a very serious reason to cover your a$$.

I can't help but be curious what it is as well as why on earth you took the risk...but there's no way to know what someone else will do.

 

 

I can't imagine therapy changes someone who has been lying for so long into a saint overnight. Or does it? Does the therapist see through it?

 

He had me believing things, she's been side by side with him for years. She blames me. He is feeding it. I'm scared.

[promises]

I remember years ago reading the book "Presumed Innocent" by Scott Turow then seeing the movie of it with Harrison Ford (BS murders OW, and WS finds out about it at the end and covers it up) and wondering how either could feel so strongly to do that.

 

that doesn't make me feel any better.

[Tenacity]

that doesn't make me feel any better.

 

Sorry... I really didn't know you were fearful at that level. It's an outlier obviously. I just mentioned it because I couldn't even comprehend it at that time.

 

If something like that were going to happen it would likely have by now.

[promises]

Sorry... I really didn't know you were fearful at that level. It's an outlier obviously. I just mentioned it because I couldn't even comprehend it at that time.

 

If something like that were going to happen it would likely have by now.

 

were you the OW or the BS? Just curious as you said you couldn't comprehend it at the time.. couldn't comprehend hurting the OW or couldn't comprehend the BS actually hurting you?