Bad Sex in Affairs?

[StormySeas]

Following up on the thread about great/awesome/mindblowing sex in affairs, I wanted to post about bad sex in affairs. Mostly because it's one of the issues that I have a hard time reconciling as it relates to my situation.

 

Quick back story based on what I've been told -- my H has sex with one of our mutual "friends" that he spent about 4 months building this huge sexual tension with via an EA with lots of texting/explicit talk. The first time they have sex, I'm out of town and he's had a few scotches for liquid courage. The sex is great, although he said that from all of the fantasy built up in his head related to all their sexting, he thought she'd show up with a trapeze and that just wasn't the case.

 

The second time is a couple of weeks later, when she dares him that he'd never have sex with her sober and he kisses our son and me goodbye in the morning and drives over on the way to work for a quickie. According to him, he was nervous, she acted surprised he even showed up, he came in about a minute, felt sick afterwards, and said it was NOT good. I think he was super embarassed by the quick performance and again, just said that it was nothing like the fantasy. He even said he tried to rationalize it in his head as glorified masturbation.

 

The third time is a week after that when he goes over to her apartment in the AM again to try to prove his manlihood...that he can go longer than a minute, etc. Apparently she just lies there with her back to him (which she had told me she prefers in the morning during one of our girl chats months prior when we were "friends") and my H says she seemed super uninterested. NOT good sex. And that...what supposedly that...no more sex ever again.

 

Our therapist said that it's very possible this is the true story. Of course on LS, from everything that I've read, this is very likely just more lying and there's much more truth that has to come out. My H has now been 100% consistent on the details of the above for almost two incredibly painful months post full disclosure day when he said he told me everything. Of course he'd told me that I knew everything on some less than full disclosure days before, so it's tough to know for sure.

 

I guess my question is...can affair sex really be bad? I mean this is still the first woman he'd been intimate with since 2001...but I could see (mostly because I think I'd feel the same) how his conscience, and maybe even her conscience because she was my "friend" could've contributed to the real thing being nowhere near as good as the fantasy that had gotten built up for so long. Take alcohol out of the picture, and I really could picture all of this awkwardness. Although when I read the thread about sex in affairs and all the feedback about how awesome/uninhibited it was, I know that the OW in this case is uber uninhibited so I don't really get how it wasn't awesome unless she just wasn't that into my H once she reeled him in.

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar to my story at all? Or is this what I fear...more lies, etc. that my naive a*# might be swallowing? I think this is going to be the biggest hurdle in a potential reconciliation -- the story just doesn't sound that true and I keep hammering and hammering him with questions because of it. Hearing that they'd had sex 60 times and it was awesome because of x, y, z but he wanted to be with me because of a, b, c would make it all more textbook and plausible.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

My wife told me that the sex with OM wasn't good and that they only had sex a handful of times.

 

That might be true, but I'm not buying it. If the sex was out-of-this-world good, would she volunteer that information? I say "no way".

 

For me, the quality or quantity of the sex is a non-factor. The dirty deed is done regardless!

[LoveTKO]

If the affair went on for quite some time then I would have to call BS on this idea that the sex was bad, but is they only had sex a couple of times then there might be something to it. I've built up expectations with women in the past, fueled by conversations laden with sexual innuendo and what not. When it came down to doing the deed it was, unfortunately, a major let down. You can give it one more shot after that to see if it was just a fluke, but you usually know from the get go if the chemistry is there.

[Doneinne]

My wife said she had intercourse twice with her first AP. She said he was smaller then me and didn't last very long. She said she didn't really get anything out of it. She said it happened twice, both times in his truck behind an abandoned business. She has stuck to those facts for a couple years no matter what I do to pry more info.

 

Her second AP she claims she only performed oral sex on him because after the first guy, she didn't want intercourse any more.

 

Only her, him and god knows if it is the truth or not.

[jwi71]

It is quite possible. Quilt and shame and that sense of wrong can spoil intercourse.

It could also be a pack of lies and she was the best f_ck in history.

 

It doesn't matter and it's not healthy. It's not healthy because at its root is a comparison you make to her. And it's not valid. No man can ever directly compare to lovers - too many differences to make a fair comparison over lady A vs lady B.

 

This is really just an extension of the trust issues you currently face.

 

In time it won't matter.

 

My advice: ask him again. And believe him. It's ultimately your only choice.

[SidLyon]

I know with certainty that it's possible to have consistently bad sex with someone during an A, but not necessarily enough to switch off the feelings.

[StormySeas]

Oh my H definitely didn't switch off the feelings...the OW got into another relationship then and he pined away for her via the return of the EA (there were a couple of other physical moments, but he says never sex again). My H says that he was never going to leave me, felt horrendous guilt, and really just wanted to have his cake and eat it too via an EA. He admits that if the sex had been mindblowing, then it would have been impossible to turn away from the physical side of things at that point but the combination of it not being mindblowing and the OW pulling away into a relationship with another guy that became serious very quickly turned it back to an EA.

 

I mean the instances of sex that admitted weren't exactly easy to take. Like the first time being on the rug where our son learned to crawl in our home. So I'd think he would've lied about where that occurred if he was going to keep lying...one of the later physical things that he admitted, while not sex, was incredibly painful for me to learn about...so he owned up to some stuff that is honestly way more painful than learning about a bunch of interactions at hotels all over the city.

 

jwi71...your "in time it won't matter" is an interesting comment to me. Mostly because I think that so much hinges right now on whether I believe him about what happened or not. "In time it won't matter" is true if I decide that I want a divorce. I won't get to a reconciliation where "in time it won't matter" if I can't make the decision that I know the truth.

[StormySeas]

Betrayed&Stayed, I totally agree that the quantity and quality doesn't matter, it's the TRUTH that does. It matters very much to me if it was 3 times or 30 times. Not because of the quantity or quality, but because I just want the whole damn story once and for all. I want to know everything. I don't know why this matters so much to me, but it does. The details of that everything really don't matter...it's just finally knowing that I have what I deserve to have, which is 100% of the story. And I know that my hang-up about this may very well be the demise of any attempt at reconciliation. If I can't just decide that I have what I need to have to move on, then we will go round and round and round until we divorce. I totally get that and I'm working on that...but I think understanding if his story is inconsistent with 100% of affairs out there, or if there is some commonality with others, can be helpful in me trying to decide if he's concocted some huge story or if he's told the truth.

[Charlie Harper]

If you have bad sex with someone Affair or Not its called One night stand... or the end.

[Doneinne]

Betrayed&Stayed...

Betrayed&Stayed, I totally agree that the quantity and quality doesn't matter, it's the TRUTH that does. It matters very much to me if it was 3 times or 30 times. Not because of the quantity or quality, but because I just want the whole damn story once and for all. I want to know everything. I don't know why this matters so much to me, but it does. The details of that everything really don't matter...it's just finally knowing that I have what I deserve to have, which is 100% of the story. And I know that my hang-up about this may very well be the demise of any attempt at reconciliation. If I can't just decide that I have what I need to have to move on, then we will go round and round and round until we divorce. I totally get that and I'm working on that...but I think understanding if his story is inconsistent with 100% of affairs out there, or if there is some commonality with others, can be helpful in me trying to decide if he's concocted some huge story or if he's told the truth.

This is exactly me. I want the same thing from my wife. I'm going through the same struggle you are.

[Furious]

Affair sex is different compared to a single man and single woman becoming intimate. In a regular dating relationship sex can be great, off the wall, but is not as dramatic when there's no deception involved. In a regular relationship there are no obstacles to prevent them from a future together.

 

Affair sex is heightened not just because of the sex but the illicit nature of an affair and the danger of being discovered which makes it's highly dramatic and addictive.

 

Affair sex is new and different, affair sex is heightened because it requires sneaking around and creates anticipation. Affair sex is a huge ego boost and there are no distractions from the mundane realty of everyday life.

 

Affair sex is intermittent, depending on when the affair partners can sneak away, and it heightens the times the affair partners can get together.

 

A betrayed spouse, even if they're great in bed cannot compete with affair sex.

 

Affair sex is never bad, not because it's better than sex between the spouses but because the ego boost and illicit nature of it is far more compelling.

 

Ironically many WS's when showed the door lose their appetite for the affair, if it means the danger and illicitness is snuffed out and they can be with their OW/OM in the open 24/7.

[seren]

I think a lot of the search for the whole truth and nothing but is so that we (general) can stop the mind movies, although sometimes having nothing but the truth makes the mind movies worse - for a time. The it will get better in time bodes true for many BS, for some, maybe not so, only you know what you need to process the A before you can make an informed choice.

 

My H's A was about validating he was not a good person, it was not a love A, although I have it from the OW that she grew to love H. The OW was in a bad place too and so they both fed into what I can only describe as outside my experience or want, I admit to feeling disgust with H for exploiting a vulnerable woman, but he says he didn't recognise that at the time.

 

He had difficulties getting an erection and says this was due to him not really wanting loving sex, which is what OW wanted after the first time. Not sure I don't think hindsight is playing a part here and that it was more about guilt than anything else. I know that at one point she was peed off that he couldn't and was angry as she had paid for the hotel room and so he threw her money and she took it. It sure isn't pretty reading and I have difficulty associating my H with how he was. I tell him he was a s*** toward her and I mean it.

 

The mind movies stopped after we began having sex again, hysterical bonding leaves little room for any other sex memories as you are so busy making your own.

 

I keep plugging Letter To a Wayward Spouse (Google it) as it explained my need for having all the truth before I could decide what to do based upon informed choice.

[BetrayedH]

I think it's a perfectly believable story but from a completely unreliable source.

 

My first instinct is to ask if the OW's versions (if she has been kind enough to share them with you) have meshed with your H's new and improved version. Of course, she is also an established liar and betrayer (and could easily by this time have coordinated her story with your H) so her word is potentially bull****, too.

 

Unless the OW has confirmed this version in a believable manner for you, I think you need to schedule the poly. I am becoming more and more sold on this technique even though I was dead against it a year and a half ago. Lots of reasons why it works, the parking lot confession not being the least of them.

 

By the way, I completely get that the details are actually irrelevant except to the extent to which they are true. I could reconcile with my wife acter what she had done but I absolutely could NOT commit my life (again) to someone that was actively lying to my face. If your husband is truly honest with you now about even the most painful details, you're probably ready to reconcile. If he's lying, you're probably ready to divorce. Big difference, huh? This is why I support the poly (and I learned that they are basically unbeatable these days). If you get serious about it, send Alice a PM. She's the resident expert and I bet she'll talk you into it. I know asking your H to do this seems dramatic but the fact is that if he is honest and truly remorseful, he will jump at the opportunity to prove himself. I would probably communicate to him that if he takes the test and passes it, you will finally choose to believe what he says about the affair and put both feet into the reconciliation.

 

My $.02 anyway.

[Snowflower]

 

 

Has anyone experienced anything similar to my story at all? Or is this what I fear...more lies, etc. that my naive a*# might be swallowing? I think this is going to be the biggest hurdle in a potential reconciliation -- the story just doesn't sound that true and I keep hammering and hammering him with questions because of it. Hearing that they'd had sex 60 times and it was awesome because of x, y, z but he wanted to be with me because of a, b, c would make it all more textbook and plausible.

 

RE..the bolded, yes!

 

Ah, I had to think about it for awhile before deciding whether to reply to your thread. It was kind of triggery for me, TBH!

 

I had a similar story with my H and I wondered whether or not to believe him. I didn't post a lot about it here ever because I knew from reading others' stories here, that I would be told he was lying. However, my H has been consistent about his story all these years (4 years now) and I now feel that my experience with infidelity was a bit of an outlier because I didn't deal with all the lying from my H that is so common in affairs.

 

Nope, from a certain point in his involvement with the OW (and it was pretty early on), my H just pulled up the stakes, went distant, and said (on some days) that he wanted out of our marriage. He just turned inconsistent and into a stranger.

 

As I said in another thread a few days ago, the few lies were not the biggest stumbling block for me.

 

Anyway, back to the bad affair sex. I tend to believe my H's story (because of his lack of lying) and like yours, that first time was because he and the OW were drunk. Your husband's story seems plausible to me and if he has been consistent in his story/details then I would tend to believe him.

 

I could have never dealt with knowledge of all the details like you described :sick:, but that is just me. So, I never asked. It was a one-time thing for my H while he was drunk (no excuse, but context is/was important) and he said he felt so guilty and sex with her was nothing all that great so there were no multiple times.

 

Instead, like your H, he went back to the EA and kept it at that level because he thought he could "control it", meaning the relationship, at that level. Apparently, and he and I did talk about this a lot in weeks/months/years afterward, the OW made it very clear that she was interested in a repeat performance, which he says he was never interested in participating in again. Since she tried to contact him/start a friendship again nearly 4 years later a few months back, I can believe this.

 

Not sure if this helping you at all, stormy seas. Maybe it was too much about my situation and not enough about yours. I do think your H's story is believable though and there are situations where the affair is not all about sex and more about the APs filling unmet needs for each other.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

Betrayed&Stayed, I totally agree that the quantity and quality doesn't matter, it's the TRUTH that does. It matters very much to me if it was 3 times or 30 times. Not because of the quantity or quality, but because I just want the whole damn story once and for all. I want to know everything. I don't know why this matters so much to me, but it does. The details of that everything really don't matter...it's just finally knowing that I have what I deserve to have, which is 100% of the story. And I know that my hang-up about this may very well be the demise of any attempt at reconciliation. If I can't just decide that I have what I need to have to move on, then we will go round and round and round until we divorce. I totally get that and I'm working on that...but I think understanding if his story is inconsistent with 100% of affairs out there, or if there is some commonality with others, can be helpful in me trying to decide if he's concocted some huge story or if he's told the truth.

 

I understand.

 

When my wife and I had discussions about the sexual aspects of the A it was very hard on me. This was one realm that I did not want all of the details. The few details that she did provide are still vivid in my mind.

 

A few of the phrases (paraphrased) that I remember from the limited conversations:

"It wasn't about the sex."

"We had sex maybe 5-6 times." (over 3 months)

"The first time the sexual chemistry was too strong to resist."

"The sex wasn't that good."

"He had a small penis."

They had sex at his house and our house, but not in our master bedroom

 

When I heard these comments about the sex not being that good, small penis, etc; I received it as an attempt to make me feel better. As though if she didn't enjoy it then it would hurt less.

 

She may have been telling me the truth. However, I realized early on that I would have a hard time believing anything she told me about the sexual details of the affair. I chose not to push it. I just concluded that she had sex and enjoyed it enough to piss on our marriage and to continue her affair for 3 more months. That's all I needed to know in that department.

 

I instead pressed on what was discussed between the two of them when they crossed the line. What was she thinking? What was he thinking? Did my name come up in conversation? Did he ask about the state of our marriage? Where did I fit in to this situation, if at all? Who initiated it? What did she expect to gain out of this? A boyfriend, friend with benefits, a hook up?

 

Everyone has their own stumbling blocks when dealing with the aftermath of adultery. Mine were focused on the other areas.

[GLDheart]

I agree with everyone that has mistrust in what the "cheater" tells you. Most of the time they are trickle truthing you and still in damage control. This for me is when you do your own homework, listen to your heart, go with your gut, and decide the "truth" for yourself.

 

As for the possibility of bad sex, I totally believe it. Sometimes people are just sexually incompatible... wether it's an affair or regular dating.

 

So anything is possible, but why believe a proven liar, that has been proven to have been manipulating you for the duration of this affair, and that has a vested interest in controlling the way you now feel and think post d-day???

[StormySeas]

Snowflower, thanks for your reply. Just knowing there's someone out there that can read my story and not have the auto "BS!" reaction is helpful.

 

I hear everyone on the polygraph issue. But there are some major hurdles on that one...the first being that our MC thinks it's a bad idea. The second being that my H's father, who was cheated on by my H's mother, also thinks it's an incredibly bad idea. Suffice it to say that those are the two people that are most influential right now in trying to help my H trough the situation, so with both of them saying "NO! BAD IDEA!", I just don't have a leg to stand on in regards to getting him to take a polygraph. My H is also uber smart and honestly, I have no doubt that he could read some of the "how to beat the polygraph" materials and beat it. I have talked to a polygraph examiner about false positives, etc. and they do exist so it's not like the polygraph is going to be the be all and end all to my problems. It could totally open up a new can of worms. But I definitely hear you all...and have given that a ton of thought...in fact, the night before the final D-Day, it was my "you're still lying and will have to take a polygraph" remark that resulted in him sitting there for a few minutes with a horrendously painful look on his face before he told me what he says are the final awful details that he'd withheld previously. So...I hear you, but I just don't think it's an option because he won't do it and I think it's flawed.

 

In regards to the OW...I haven't seen her for two years. I called her very calmly when the truth came out about two months ago and she denied everything, said over and over again that she had no idea what I was talking about and eventually hung up on me. She is the ultimate conflict avoider and is also one of those people that is really so dumb and delusional that she may have convinced herself it never actually happened. For example, we all are about 99.9% sure she had an affair with one of the lawyers in her office, but she has not admitted if she did to anyone, including my H during his affair with her. Her affair with this guy was long over at this point (his wife had gone nuts about their relationship and he ended up leaving his job, etc. to save his marriage) so I'm not sure why she would've lied to my H about it. Of course you never know...

 

That's the constant kick in the stomach with these damn things...you just never really know!

[jwi71]

 

jwi71...your "in time it won't matter" is an interesting comment to me. Mostly because I think that so much hinges right now on whether I believe him about what happened or not. "In time it won't matter" is true if I decide that I want a divorce. I won't get to a reconciliation where "in time it won't matter" if I can't make the decision that I know the truth.

 

Stormy,

 

It simply doesn't matter.

 

If you decide to D you will move on and, in time, her sexual abilities will have ZERO affect on your life. It won't matter.

 

If you decide to stay M it won't matter. Was your H a virgin on your wedding night? We're you? It's highly unlikely. Did those previous lovers matter? Do you frequently wonder if you are as "good as they"? Hopefully not.

 

So this is all about trust.

 

Do you trust your H is telling the truth when he benefits from a lie (potentially)?

 

That is the crux of this. Has nothing to do with her skills on the mattress.

 

If this is your largest hurdle, you're in luck and on the way to recovery. If its simply one of many triggers/obsessive Q's you have - it may be more worrisome depending upon how much time has passed.

 

Does it make any difference if she was better than you? Worse than you?

Which answer would make you feel better? Or better yet, what answer kills this "trigger" for you? Does such an answer exist for you? Or does it lead to more questions, more division, less trust and yet another hurdle to healing?

 

You said it above: you will never really know.

(luckily you seem fixated on an issue that doesn't really matter)

 

And because you cannot know you either accept what he says or you don't. You trust his answer or you don't. It's your ONLY choice - because you'll never really know and obsessing about does ZERO good.

 

No, you're not nuts. It's perfectly normal and natural. Also not healthy.

 

My advice is this: believe him or not. Then let it go. Never mention it again. Her skills compared to yourself are immaterial. It only serves to retard healing.

Yes it takes time. But believe me, in time, this won't matter. Don't let your M hinge on an meaningless detail. I know it seems like the world now but years later it isn't. Don't let this detail derail healing.

[screwedovertwenty]

My husband claims that it was just sex. He said it wasn't better. He keeps telling me how much he has always loved sex with me. I don't know what to believe.

[underwater2010]

I have to laugh. That is how I found out she was lying about intercourse. I asked her how long he lasted. If I am so boring and he lasts 10 mins. max, then her mind blowing sex should have set him off in 5 mins. max. Guess it wasn't that good or he had performance issues. Besides she brags about everything via email and facebook and she never mentioned it.

[Spark1111]

Affair sex is intense and immediate.

 

but not necessarily better. Think of porn. the clothes are off in minutes. All that texting, emails, secret phone calls are foreplay, setting up anticipation.

 

think of 17, forbidden, in the back seat of mommy or daddy's borrowed car. The hormones are about the same.

 

Is that good sex? Idk. It wouldn't. E for me.

 

Dr. frank Pittman says men remember everything that happens below the waste, but nothing of the words of endearment to get there.

 

Women are the opposite. They remember every term of endearment, the compliments, but not so much the sex. It wasn't all that important to the emotional aspects being filled.

 

My H said the biggest turn on was how much she desired him, ahem, and how willing and quickly she accommodated him. she had developed feelings for him.

 

In a long term relationship that's fun once in a while, but every time? Pretty boring, no?

 

I also know there were many things she didn't do? Nothing NOT face to face, for ex. Why? Then it wouldn't have provided her with the emotional, romantic connection she craved.

 

You understand? Think 17 again.. And stop worrying about it. He very well be telling the truth of what he remembers.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Most people tell the truth from their point of view, so the perception of the quality is subjective. I would imagine that he is probably down playing the physical and concentrating on the emotional side of the relationship. The emotional could well be the true drug that he craved and the physical was a by product. Over stimulation can definitely affect performance, as can guilt, so they are possibilities.

 

The polygraph is impossible for the average Joe to beat, when utilized for the purpose for which it was designed. If you want to know if he cheated or not, it would get you the truth. However, questions of perception (how did you feel), it is much less effective and result in non-conclusive results.

 

He has confessed to the fact they did have sex. However, even if it was good, it is fantasy and not the same as the sex you two enjoyed. He has also confessed the emotional relationship, and where I think you should concentrate your efforts. If you feel he is contrite and you feel with counseling that you can heal this relationship, then that would be your best option. I know that it is difficult, but try to turn off the mind movies.