The MM is a JOKE.

[promises]

I'm struggling with this. A man who KNOWS clearly, as they are MARRIED, that ultimately women all desire the same thing.. Would KNOWINGLY screw with another person's mind, ie the OW?? Or wait.. The OW 'seduced' ' The poor bloke.

 

And yet, forgive me, this is just a 'temporary' character flaw that can be corrected through therapy and rerouting their responsibilities to their wives.

 

You know what? I think they all are selfish p.ricks. Even if the they've been 'reformed'..

Edited December 21, 2012 by promises

[18Years2Late]

I'm struggling with this. A man who KNOWS clearly, as they are MARRIED, that ultimately women all desire the same thing.. Would KNOWINGLY screw with another person's mind, ie the OW?? Or wait.. The OW 'seduced' ' The poor bloke.

 

And yet, forgive me, this is just a 'temporary' character flaw that can be corrected through therapy and rerouting their responsibilities to their wives.

 

You know what? I think they all are selfish p.ricks. Even if the they've been 'reformed'..

 

Yes they are all empty, useless excuses for human beings...character flaws can't be fixed...especially bc most are only in therapy to appease the BS...so they don't lose their "stuff"...selfish on all accounts for everyone involved...

[MissBee]

I'm gonna have to be fair here.

 

Now...unless one doesn't know a man is married, if an OW goes into a relationship with a MM....she is not much of a victim and is no less "useless", "empty" or "selfish". You can't all of a sudden be mad at this man, when all doesn't go as you hoped. The reasons an OW ignores a man is married and decides to date him are some of the same reasons why a MM carries on in an affair. Most of the time both are caught up in the fantasy, the attention, they may genuinely like this person etc.

 

For MM who prey on women, lie to them, pretend they are not married or spin extravagant lies, yess they are on another level. But for the average MM who gets into an A, they're usually not diabolic and the knowing OW is no innocent party to it. Both were adults who chose to cross boundaries.

 

I'm not blaming you or anyone else for what happened to you btw and neither am I saying you shouldn't feel bad. I can relate. It's still fresh and I remember when stuff was fresh for me, it's like you're unable to really see your own part or to admit that this person may not be the devil, but flawed just like you. As you get farther away, you're usually able to have a more balanced outlook. I do believe some MM though are as manipulative and psychologically disturbed as ever! I do think so...but largely, it's a case of BOTH APs allowing themselves to be carried off in fantasy and both lying to themselves and then of course to everyone else and each other. Many do believe their lies and plans at the time of the A....that's what the fog is IMO...truly believing the stories you spin. I have been there. Caught up in the high and making plans I couldn't go through with. It's like good sex...in the midst of it you make all kinds of promises and when you come down off the high, you're like wtf when did I say that???

 

 

Anyway....you deserve to vent. But I had to be fair and add this perspective.

[18Years2Late]

I'm gonna have to be fair here.

 

Now...unless one doesn't know a man is married, if an OW goes into a relationship with a MM....she is not much of a victim and is no less "useless", "empty" or "selfish". You can't all of a sudden be mad at this man, when all doesn't go as you hoped. The reasons an OW ignores a man is married and decides to date him are some of the same reasons why a MM carries on in an affair. Most of the time both are caught up in the fantasy, the attention, they may genuinely like this person etc.

 

For MM who prey on women, lie to them, pretend they are not married or spin extravagant lies, yess they are on another level. But for the average MM who gets into an A, they're usually not diabolic and the knowing OW is no innocent party to it. Both were adults who chose to cross boundaries.

 

I'm not blaming you or anyone else for what happened to you btw and neither am I saying you shouldn't feel bad. I can relate. It's still fresh and I remember when stuff was fresh for me, it's like you're unable to really see your own part or to admit that this person may not be the devil, but flawed just like you. As you get farther away, you're usually able to have a more balanced outlook. I do believe some MM though are as manipulative and psychologically disturbed as ever! I do think so...but largely, it's a case of BOTH APs allowing themselves to be carried off in fantasy and both lying to themselves and then of course to everyone else and each other. Many do believe their lies and plans at the time of the A....that's what the fog is IMO...truly believing the stories you spin. I have been there. Caught up in the high and making plans I couldn't go through with. It's like good sex...in the midst of it you make all kinds of promises and when you come down off the high, you're like wtf when did I say that???

 

 

Anyway....you deserve to vent. But I had to be fair and add this perspective.

 

I don't think nor have I ever said I'm a victim...but I'm am mad as hell...and I have every right to be because my life was destroyed by his LIES...cold calculated well planned out LIES...yes he LIED to his BS too...and I hope she's more than mad as hell...she has every right to be too...

[MissBee]

I don't think nor have I ever said I'm a victim...but I'm am mad as hell...and I have every right to be because my life was destroyed by his LIES...cold calculated well planned out LIES...yes he LIED to his BS too...and I hope she's more than mad as hell...she has every right to be too...

 

I never said you said that.

 

I don't remember your story off the top of my head.

 

But as I said, one has a right to vent and be angry and I do think some MM go above and beyond to lie and be calculated, and if so...then they are truly as effed up as ever. I think LG's MM is one such guy.

 

But largely...most other MM seem to be in the same boat with the OW...both crossing boundaries and deluding themselves about it. Then the bubble bursts, but unfortunately, it's usually worse for the OW. When the bubble bursts the MM usually will have his life to go back into fixing, while the OW feels duped because she is left to pick up the pieces or is thrown under the bus and driven over. That no doubt hurts like hell...since for the duration of the A, while many were deep in fantasy, it all felt perfect and like you were in this together, then when the shyyt hit the fan, you're left to clean up the mess.

[18Years2Late]

Can the same be said for the ow? Something to think about......isn't it?

 

Not me...yes I have immense character flaws...I own them...but I didn't lie to XMOM to purposely destroy his life...I knew what I wanted and I moved in that direction...and I'm not in therapy trying to "save my stuff"...I mean my M...

 

Sorry LG...no offense to u...I'm having a bad day...I HATE him...and I hope he dies a lonely, heart-broken, miserable, penniless man...he deserves every bad thing that happens to him for the remainder of his meaningless existence...

 

Now I'm done venting...

[jwi71]

I'm struggling with this. A man who KNOWS clearly, as they are MARRIED, that ultimately women all desire the same thing.. Would KNOWINGLY screw with another person's mind, ie the OW?? Or wait.. The OW 'seduced' ' The poor bloke.

 

And yet, forgive me, this is just a 'temporary' character flaw that can be corrected through therapy and rerouting their responsibilities to their wives.

 

You know what? I think they all are selfish p.ricks. Even if the they've been 'reformed'..

 

In a purely academic sense...what role/responsibility/culpability does the OW have given the facts as presented?

[MissBee]

I've asked him six times to let me be. Explained my emotional state. Said I was vulnerable.

 

He then tells me NC and has since F'ed with my head two more times???? .

 

At what point does that turn from the OW sharing responsibility to the MM being a total selfish prick?? In an educational sense...

 

I'm not in the business of defending MM lol..I leave that to others.

 

However, a lot of people are selfish in the separation process. Some are just compelled to break NC. OW included. When you've become attached to someone, it's not always easy to let go, even if it's for the best. He IS being selfish by contacting you but I think lots of people do so..OW included.

 

Anyway....I'm sorry he's contacting you and he's being selfish. He is! Now you have to be the one to shield yourself from him. Ideally he'd be mature enough to respect your wishes...but ideally, most people would just have good boundaries and not bother to date a MM. But now that it's happened, you can't expect him to gain maturity or respect. So you have to be the one to block him so you can move forward. IME you usually have to do it for yourself and not expect your exMM or ex single man to be the one to leave you alone. You can ask them to, but sometimes that person wants to contact you for whatever reason, just like many OW and others find it hard to maintain NC themselves. So you have to be the one to ignore why they're doing what they're doing and just protect yourself.

[jwi71]

I'm not in the business of defending MM lol..I leave that to others.

 

However, a lot of people are selfish in the separation process. Some are just compelled to break NC. OW included. When you've become attached to someone, it's not always easy to let go, even if it's for the best. He IS being selfish by contacting you but I think lots of people do so..OW included.

 

Anyway....I'm sorry he's contacting you and he's being selfish. He is! Now you have to be the one to shield yourself from him. Ideally he'd be mature enough to respect your wishes...but ideally, most people would just have good boundaries and not bother to date a MM. But now that it's happened, you can't expect him to gain maturity or respect. So you have to be the one to block him so you can move forward. IME you usually have to do it for yourself and not expect your exMM or ex single man to be the one to leave you alone. You can ask them to, but sometimes that person wants to contact you for whatever reason, just like many OW and others find it hard to maintain NC themselves. So you have to be the one to ignore why they're doing what they're doing and just protect yourself.

 

MissBee answered for me - and the bold in particular is true.

 

His contacting you is all MissBee says - selfish, disrespectful, immature, not caring for you at all and so on.

 

I do notice that YOU REPLIED to him. Six times even.

 

So what role/responsibility/culpability does an OW have?

 

If I am weak for cheesecake, I don;t go hang out at the Cheesecake Factory.

 

There are ACTIONS you can take to curb his contacts...why not take them?

[promises]

MissBee answered for me - and the bold in particular is true.

 

His contacting you is all MissBee says - selfish, disrespectful, immature, not caring for you at all and so on.

 

I do notice that YOU REPLIED to him. Six times even.

 

So what role/responsibility/culpability does an OW have?

 

If I am weak for cheesecake, I don;t go hang out at the Cheesecake Factory.

 

There are ACTIONS you can take to curb his contacts...why not take them?

 

Imagine your most vulnerable place... Imagine someone monopolizing on it.

 

A place more sacred then food and water. I'm not going to argue about cheesecake to this.

 

I'm just stating my point. I'm glad he's in therapy to save his a. Ss.

 

Keeps him farther away from me. Stay in therapy for years for all I care.

[Decorative]

Imagine your most vulnerable place... Imagine someone monopolizing on it.

 

A place more sacred then food and water. I'm not going to argue about cheesecake to this.

 

I'm just stating my point. I'm glad he's in therapy to save his a. Ss.

 

Keeps him farther away from me. Stay in therapy for years for all I care.

 

You cannot control other people.

 

You can only control yourself.

 

So you keep yourself far from him. Every attempt he makes- radio silence back, then plug up that point of contact. Change numbers, contact information, get a restraining order if you must.

 

That's what you can do- and focus on yourself. That's what will make you heal.

[jwi71]

Imagine your most vulnerable place... Imagine someone monopolizing on it.

 

A place more sacred then food and water. I'm not going to argue about cheesecake to this.

 

I'm just stating my point. I'm glad he's in therapy to save his a. Ss.

 

Keeps him farther away from me. Stay in therapy for years for all I care.

 

I hope you are venting because you own 50% of this.

 

You clearly won't see it now and that's ok.

 

Going forward, take ACTIONS to keep stresses from you...change email, phone # (or block) or simply ignore. All are potential solutions. To say you are weak is just an excuse. And sometimes, in the midst of trauma and pain, its easier to blame others for what we allow them to do to us. Perfectly human.

 

Just don't let those excuses take root and play the victim for the rest of your days. It inhibits personal growth and makes one susceptible to such again (because it wasn't your fault, it was his so this time it will be different kinda thing).

[MissBee]

You cannot control other people.

 

You can only control yourself.

 

So you keep yourself far from him. Every attempt he makes- radio silence back, then plug up that point of contact. Change numbers, contact information, get a restraining order if you must.

 

That's what you can do- and focus on yourself. That's what will make you heal.

 

 

I agree promises.

 

It would be nice if he'd stop on his own. But you can't control that, so you have to be the one to preempt his "attacks" and protect yourself from it.

 

He can call you, text, email etc if he wants to. You can't really stop that, but there are fairly simple ways of stopping those types of contact from reaching you so you can move on.

[Nyla]

I've asked him six times to let me be. Explained my emotional state. Said I was vulnerable.

 

He then tells me NC and has since F'ed with my head two more times???? .

 

At what point does that turn from the OW sharing responsibility to the MM being a total selfish prick?? In an educational sense...

 

He shares some responsibility, but the fact is you ALLOWED him to treat you in such a disrespectful manner.

 

Your MM cannot eff with your head unless you give him the opportunity to do so.

 

Try to figure out why your boundaries are weak. Work on strengthening them and make a list of your dealbreakers in a relationship. These steps are what helped me when I kept choosing awful men as a younger woman.

[promises]

I hope you are venting because you own 50% of this.

 

You clearly won't see it now and that's ok.

 

Going forward, take ACTIONS to keep stresses from you...change email, phone # (or block) or simply ignore. All are potential solutions. To say you are weak is just an excuse. And sometimes, in the midst of trauma and pain, its easier to blame others for what we allow them to do to us. Perfectly human.

 

Just don't let those excuses take root and play the victim for the rest of your days. It inhibits personal growth and makes one susceptible to such again (because it wasn't your fault, it was his so this time it will be different kinda thing).

 

Is the 50 percent a quotable academic statistic?

A sucker punch is different from a boxing match.

And both are different than cheesecake

 

I love how so many think their own experiences or what they have read give them context to tell another person that the human experience is black and white.

 

Let me be angry. I am entitled my own feelings.

[Decorative]

Is the 50 percent a quotable academic statistic?

A sucker punch is different from a boxing match.

And both are different than cheesecake

 

I love how so many think their own experiences or what they have read give them context to tell another person that the human experience is black and white.

 

Let me be angry. I am entitled my own feelings.

 

Anger is a powerful motivator for change. Use it for positive momentum in your life.

 

You and the MM both made bad decisions. Both of you.

 

Learn from that. Move forward. But staying this angry and rejecting the loads of kind advice you have gotten on this thread probably won't help you.

[MissBee]

Anger is understandable and normal. You gotta vent and be irrational, then after that comes a more even-keeled reality.

 

I'm sure you'll get there soon

[jwi71]

Is the 50 percent a quotable academic statistic?

 

50% because you are one of the two people in an R, an A in this case, but an R nonetheless.

 

Anyways, you clearly are not thinking straight right now and that's ok - anger is a phase. I hope it passes for you.

[jwi71]

Anger is a powerful motivator for change. Use it for positive momentum in your life.

 

You and the MM both made bad decisions. Both of you.

 

Learn from that. Move forward. But staying this angry and rejecting the loads of kind advice you have gotten on this thread probably won't help you.

 

I would urge caution on using anger to fuel change as anger is an intensely burning and rapidly consumed fuel - one requiring constant attention and replenishment.

 

I do not think it is healthy to use anger as the fuel for change.

 

Its good boost to begin change but not to sustain the emotional needs required to complete change. That requires introspection and acceptance which hopefully ignites DESIRE to change. Far more healthy and sustainable.

 

/rant over

[promises]

I hope you are venting because you own 50% of this.

 

You clearly won't see it now and that's ok.

 

Going forward, take ACTIONS to keep stresses from you...change email, phone # (or block) or simply ignore. All are potential solutions. To say you are weak is just an excuse. And sometimes, in the midst of trauma and pain, its easier to blame others for what we allow them to do to us. Perfectly human.

 

Just don't let those excuses take root and play the victim for the rest of your days. It inhibits personal growth and makes one susceptible to such again (because it wasn't your fault, it was his so this time it will be different kinda thing).

 

I see the responsibility and I greatly appreciate the suggestions to help me move forward. I'm not irrational. I'm angry. But, I don't like when people preposition things with, *But you are the "OW" and are a bad bad person for what you've done... COME ON. I also understand bringing this thread back to me but only if it's in respect for 'helping'. Not accusing.

 

My entire point here is that although yes, I was a part. HE WAS MARRIED AND had an even more open wide view of the needs of women. HE MADE promises. HE DID. And now, HE IS in therapy to save his A*S. Clearly it's not about complete remorse for what he did to his W, and how much of a mistake I was... because he is STILL trying to make sure I know he's around. So... I go back to my original post. HE IS A PRICK AND THE MAJORITY OF THESE MM ARE. I DON'T CARE HOW MANY BS's defend them here.

 

*Not yelling at you btw. Just happen to continue my vent under your post.

[promises]

You're not glad he's in therapy. All your threads/posts make that crystal clear.

 

As I suspected, you inquired about marriage counseling because you want to know if he's likely to leave his wife and "come back to you."

 

 

Nah. If he wasn't in therapy, he'd be a pile of prick on my doorstep. And, his wife is in a crazy state and has already attacked my life. Weather you say, "Good for her" or not. Things could get worse either way.

 

I'm trying to sort through my grand amount of feelings surrounding this experience.

[jwi71]

I see the responsibility and I greatly appreciate the suggestions to help me move forward. I'm not irrational. I'm angry. But, I don't like when people preposition things with, *But you are the "OW" and are a bad bad person for what you've done... COME ON. I also understand bringing this thread back to me but only if it's in respect for 'helping'. Not accusing.

 

Well, when you hear that, and you clearly have, try, and its hard, to realize those words are not aimed at or are even about YOU. Its a reflection of themselves projected onto you. Because its easier to look outwardly than to look inside, past the hurt and into the ugly dark recesses we all have. We are only human.

 

Having said that, one must agree there is a certain amount of truth to it - however ungracefully stated. When one dances with the devil.....

 

You are just beginning your healing.

 

And its a journey.

 

You will, I promise, facepalm more than once.

 

You will, I promise, think "How did I not see that"?

 

You will, I promise, think "Im an idiot and I did it to myself"

 

All or some or none of which is true. Its a great ride. I can say that as its long over for me...actually....the results of the ride now are great, the ride itself sucks. Sorry, cant sugar-coat it.

 

My entire point here is that although yes, I was a part. HE WAS MARRIED AND had an even more open wide view of the needs of women. HE MADE promises. HE DID. And now, HE IS in therapy to save his A*S. Clearly it's not about complete remorse for what he did to his W, and how much of a mistake I was... because he is STILL trying to make sure I know he's around. So... I go back to my original post. HE IS A PRICK AND THE MAJORITY OF THESE MM ARE. I DON'T CARE HOW MANY BS's defend them here.

 

I assure you MM that venture here aren't coddled. I say that with a chuckle. You think YOU'RE getting a thrashing? Not. Even. Close.

 

Its ok to vent. LS is good for that.

 

So here's something you can try:

 

How long can you go w/o thinking of him, his MC, his W or whatnot? Keep a log. Every time your thoughts wander to him, put a dollar in that jar and log it down. Every Saturday, give the money in the jar to a charity.

 

Its likely to early - too fresh for you. Its hard not to obsess over it at first.

 

Worth a try. You game?

 

*Not yelling at you btw. Just happen to continue my vent under your post.

 

Don't worry about that.

I've had some great, sometimes snarky, back and forths with some of the very posters in this thread. Don't bother me.

[Decorative]

I would urge caution on using anger to fuel change as anger is an intensely burning and rapidly consumed fuel - one requiring constant attention and replenishment.

 

I do not think it is healthy to use anger as the fuel for change.

 

Its good boost to begin change but not to sustain the emotional needs required to complete change. That requires introspection and acceptance which hopefully ignites DESIRE to change. Far more healthy and sustainable.

 

/rant over

 

I think using a situation that causes you great pain and anger- and choosing to make decisions that will change that to a positive?

 

Is healthy.

 

period. Being active, moving forward- changing the dialogue and scenery - those are good things.

 

I am not sure how I said anything different than you did- except you went into more detail, and disavowed anger as an agent for change. Anger is an emotion humans suffer from . Taking action can help. Not to act in retribution - but to make positive movements.

 

What am I missing?

Edited December 21, 2012 by Decorative

[promises]

I just want to be over the hurt. Over the reality that he NEVER wanted me the way he PROMISED. That I didn't deserve half of this crap and I am TRYING very hard to do that. It makes me angry when both of them keep vomiting all over my world. I've cut all communication tracks but one that I cannot change right now.

 

I'm glad that they are in therapy because hopefully they stop doing that soon and work on their own crap. And please leave me alone. It's a small world and we have many in common. I just think that there are A.holes in the world and it's worth mentioning that he is one of them.

 

I do have the scarlet letter on me and it's difficult to heal with that red thing staring at you in the face every where you turn. And to have him feed his addiction over and over again- I'm cutting off that addicting.

 

I'm just angry. This is the most angry I've been. It's a good thing. Just let me vent.

[Tenacity]

Everyone can get off of their horse as well as myself. Maybe we should all walk away from this pain that we are all clearly still experiencing or none of us would be here.

 

I'm not responding to this yet again.

 

You're right. The people who post such messages have a huge amount of their own pain that is being vented at you (general you, because it's vented at anyone here as we are all generally the bad OW).

 

I may have misread your initial post (or most of the posts on this thread are off-topic) but I thought you were stating that many of these MM are just jerks, and marriage counseling or "reconciliation" isn't going to change that.

 

I have to agree. It's something I have been thinking about a lot lately. Look at all the posts here about men who go back to their W's - many who go through therapy - and yet these men never give it up. The vast majority of the time they come around fishing to the OW again.

 

I have been out of my A for YEARS and I am still having this problem. If these men are so dedicated to their M's, why don't they honor requests not to be contacted?!?! Why?!! Especially since it was THEIR decision in the first place!

 

We are not talking about one-night stands here. For most of these A's, the men make a very deliberate decision to deceive their spouse, lie and cheat, for months and even YEARS while in the A. How does anyone do that if they just "made a mistake"? A mistake to completely deceive the person they are supposed to love and respect the most... for weeks or months or even years on end?

 

How do spouses ever take these guys back and believe in them again, especially when D-day is what drove them to "reconcile" and go to therapy so they wouldn't lose their lives? As far as I'm concerned, that is hypocrisy... BS's who take back their philandering spouses - I guess because the WS was contrite and sorry (of course they were - it was D-day and they were going to lose their safe life!) who still post here attacking OW. And I have seen lots of that. Many BS's here are wonderful and incredible... supportive and really know how to word things and give all perspectives. But many (especially the past few months, for some reason) have a ton of repressed pain and resentment that just oozes from every post they make on this forum. It's very easy to tell the difference.

 

Anyway, vent away. There are those here who understand. Ignore everyone else. For now, just forget about what you are "supposed" to be feeling. That will come. I totally get it.