Working on forgiveness?

[rushedin2011]

I'm going to try and make this as short as possible, but let me know if y'all need more details. I was good friends with this girl for a year. I liked her and she may have liked me. One night while we were both drunk she told me that I was a great guy and that she wasn't looking to date. I got angry, didn't talk to her for 3 weeks. After which we talked again and i confessed that I wanted to be with her. She said that she didn't want to be in a relationship but that i would be the first person she dated. After this I tried to maintain a distance from her, for the sake of my feelings. After about three months she came back to me and said she missed me and wanted to be with me. I decided to give it a go. We have been together 1.5 years and things have been good. except for the past. She does not lie to me, but I have found out that during the three months we were apart she hooked up with a bunch of guys. I can't help but feel anger, and hate towards her for this. I feel wronged, I know I shouldn't be. But I loved her then, and we only got together once she had her fill with these other guys. I feel like a chump. I resent her for this. I feel like I could marry this girl otherwise. But this past thing kills me on the inside. Most of the time I try to supress it and not think about it, but it eats at me. I can't help but think about it. Should I forgive her? How? I can't live like this anymore. I have many other problems right now (parents divorce, brother dropping out, school) I can't deal with this in my head anymore. what do I do?

[TaraMaiden]

Go to counselling and confess your feelings to her.

Admit it's far more problem than hers - but that you need to get it out of your system.

Keeping it in will eventually destroy who you are, and what you have.

[rushedin2011]

I have confessed this to her, and i am going to counselling. My counselor says that I must identify the the "belief" that makes me feel the way I do. I think that "belief" is that i was wronged. That I am a chump for taking her back. inferior to the other men. submissive to her. I'm sick of feeling this way, I hate this. I used to be a outgoing guy, and now this has consumed me. I blame her for the way I feel. I blame her for the jealousy problems i have. Am I being totally irrational here? I feel justified in the way I feel, but I want to know if i can get over these feelings so we can be happy together...or apart. She says that she couldn't be with me because she had previously been hurt in relationships. I can't and don't understand why how she could feel this way and then hook up with these guys. I hate HATE that there were these men while I cared about her. what is worse is she is friends with them and still talks about them occasionally.

[TaraMaiden]

It takes 2 to tango.

If she wants this relationship to work, she has to cut off all contact with them.

If this is eating you up, you have to recognise that the only one creating these thoughts in your head - these feelings and emotions - is you.

You have to face your anger and resentment, and dissipate it.

 

Has she apologised?

is she contrite?

Does she really want this relationship to work?

Is she willing to meet you half way and help you through this, by admitting her mistake in maintaining contact with these men?

Can you explain to her that severing contact would help you heal?

 

Do you actually WANT to heal, or is there some subliminal righteousness in staying angry and resentful?

Does it give you a moral edge?

[rushedin2011]

She has apologised and I do think that she feels bad about it...to a certain degree. She largely feels that since we were not in a relationship, she did no wrong. She feels bad that it makes me sad, but i don't think she feels she made a mistake.

 

I should rephrase. My mistake. She doesn't actually talk to these men frequently, but ABOUT them occasionally. We are in a different city now. When we visit our old city she does interact with them though.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure that I actually want to heal. I believe there is a part of me that is subliminally pleased in being angry and resentful. All of our friends know this history. I think on some level I believe everyone thinks I am "whipped" and will bow to her every whim. I think I resent that. (she does have a domineering personality.) One part of me feels that I was ****tily treated by her and that I should NEVER forget that. But another part of me knows that this is eating me, and that I need to move forward with my life. I guess to a certain degree I am looking for validation in what I feel, but to what end? So that I can continue being angry? So I can finally forgive? I do not know

[TaraMaiden]

Then you must take that into consideration, and take it into account, because naturally, it therefore inhibits your progress.

 

Mention it to your counsellor.... If it's a new angle to consider, it will need a different approach.

Not so much getting over this, but what exactly YOU can do to liberate yourself from this self-imposed and continued anger.

 

You're orchestrating this in your mind.

What will it take - what do you NEED - in order for you to make yourself let go?

[rushedin2011]

I have talked about this with my counselor. He says that the problem arises in my "belief" that she wronged me. He also says that this belief fuels the fire that is my anger. I must understand this belief in order to change it. Moreover that in order to change the "belief" I must decide what I want out of life. Do I choose to believe her that she wasn't ready for a relationship? Or do I choose to accept my belief that she wanted to hook up with a bunch of guys and when that got boring she settled with me.

 

When I think about it. The truth is I want to cause her the same pain that I feel. I want her to feel everything that I feel/have felt. But paradoxically, I want to stay with her. I wish none of this would have happened. I wish we could have just been together and that we didn't have this shared past. The amazing thing is that we have had at least 10 conversations about this, fights which end up in tears. And she still sticks with me. Hoping that I will change. i fear that will never be the case. I keep on wanting to believe that i can change, but i'm beginning to resign myself to the fact that I won't.

[TaraMaiden]

You don't want to, enough.

Your desire for her to feel the equivalent pain to yours, is greater than your desire to move on and let this go.

 

That's what you have to work on.

 

Your desire for revenge.

[rushedin2011]

That does sounds like it makes sense with what I am feeling. But now that I know what I "desire." What do I do? I'm stuck. How do I get over/rid of this feeling? It has been in my head for so long. Even counselling hasn't helped (a little, but I did feel like i was suppressing rather than dealing with it.) Is this something I should just admit isn't going to change and break up with her?

[TaraMaiden]

That does sounds like it makes sense with what I am feeling. But now that I know what I "desire." What do I do? I'm stuck. How do I get over/rid of this feeling? It has been in my head for so long. Even counselling hasn't helped (a little, but I did feel like i was suppressing rather than dealing with it.) Is this something I should just admit isn't going to change and break up with her?

 

Exactly.

You haven't dealt with it at all, because you hesitated to reveal the truth - particularly to yourself.

You've been avoiding the issue head-on.

 

You can't say it won't change, now you've finally faced it, and let the cat out of the bag for yourself.

Breaking up at this juncture would be admitting defeat, and taking the easy way out.

 

Why?

 

Because mostly, this is your problem, not hers.

You've been skirting round the issue and avoiding it, because you wanted to continue with the feeling.

It gave you a sense of one-upmanship.

 

Now?

Now, you're fed up of it.

 

Be honest, speak frankly to your counsellor FIRST.

 

And then discuss this very point with your GF, if your counsellor thinks it would be of benefit.

 

Think on this:

Being vengeful is like buying poison for someone else, and drinking it yourself.

 

Heard that one?

 

Or picking up a burning coal to throw it at someone. It always burns you first.

 

The damage you're doing with this train of thought, is principally and primarily injuring you, first, foremost and perhaps only.

 

Realise that working on this issue, will release you and make you well.

 

Which is the point here.

Not her, you.

[rushedin2011]

I hear what you are saying. And one part of me agrees with you. I understand that this problem lies with me and that I must be the source of its resolution. However what if I feel that I am justified in wanting revenge and infliction of this pain? I feel righteous in desiring it, and therefore it is more difficult to justify that it is a problem within me. Does that make sense? I don't think I can get over this because I don't feel as if this is only my problem. This is a problem that she created. Why must I suffer this mental prison that, yes I helped build, but she commissioned? My rational self understands that this poison is only going to damage myself. But my ego is infuriated at the suggestion that she gets off scot free. I have to deal with this pain, and she endures nothing. I must forgive and be a ****ing saint and shet gets away with what she did? How can I live with myself? I'm sorry i'm sure this is getting repetitive, but maybe you can understand how much mental anguish this has caused me. All of this makes me question if I actually love her...shouldn't I be willing to forgive someone I love? Or maybe am I so hurt because I love her that I am blinded by anger?

[rushedin2011]

I must add that even in replying I find myself increasing agitated and angry about the past

[TaraMaiden]

. However what if I feel that I am justified in wanting revenge and infliction of this pain?

 

Ok, I'll play the game.

Yeah, what if?

Answer the question.

 

I feel righteous in desiring it, and therefore it is more difficult to justify that it is a problem within me. Does that make sense?

 

Yes.

And no.

If that's the case, you haven't truly acknowledged that it's YOUR problem. You still believe it's a problem jointly owned by your GF.

You still hold her largely responsible....

 

I don't think I can get over this because I don't feel as if this is only my problem. This is a problem that she created.

 

No, she hasn't. This is a problem YOU have created as a result of your resentment and indignation at her having been with other guys.

Your jealousy is your responsibility.

 

Why must I suffer this mental prison that, yes I helped build, but she commissioned?

See? You believe it's a joint problem...

Let me ask you a question.

How do you feel about her having been with other guys even before you initially met her?

 

You broke up.

You were not an item.

She had every right to go out and meet other guys - just as you had the right to meet other women.

 

She was honest and told you she wasn't ready for a steady relationship, and did basically what was her perfect right to do.

Had she been a guy doing this, women wouldn't bat an eyelid. Guys sow their oats.

What's with the double standard here?

Nothing stopped you seeing other women... you just decided not to....

 

 

My rational self understands that this poison is only going to damage myself. But my ego is infuriated at the suggestion that she gets off scot free.

Oh, so it's your sense of male pride?

Your Ego?

What part of your ego?

The belief that she should have stayed celibate and faithful - even though she initially told you she wasn't really keen on falling into a relationship?

 

Do you see how illogical your ego is being?

 

I have to deal with this pain, and she endures nothing. I must forgive and be a ****ing saint and shet gets away with what she did?

What exactly did she do, that was wrong, apart form live life the way she wanted to?

What you're saying is that she didn't want a relationship with you at the time - but she shouldn't have been allowed to be so free-spirited either?

What if she had come back a year later, rather than 3 months? Would you have expected celibacy then, too?

How long should a person remain sexless, in your opinion?

 

How can I live with myself? I'm sorry i'm sure this is getting repetitive, but maybe you can understand how much mental anguish this has caused me.

 

YOU have caused YOU.

Own it.

 

You can live with yourself by examining the logic of your anger and resentment.

What are you angry AT?

What exactly did she do wrong?

Why should she not have seen other guys?

What firm commitment did you ever have before then, that she owed you fidelity?

None.

So - what's your point, exactly?

I'm not arguing with you.

I'm trying to get you to see that there's no logic to this.....

 

All of this makes me question if I actually love her...shouldn't I be willing to forgive someone I love? Or maybe am I so hurt because I love her that I am blinded by anger?

 

or blinded by possessiveness?

I think you DO love her, but you're making retrospective demands on her which can never be fulfilled or complied with.

It happened.

 

There's the problem, isn't it?

[rushedin2011]

I don't know how to do the quotes things fast, so I'm going to address your questions in number form

 

1. I see your point here. There is really nothing I can do that will share my pain that won't also have serious reprecussions (cheating, emotional abuse, etc.) However I still want to cheat, or do something that will make her feel how I do.

2. It is not only my problem, this will be addressed below

3. Again this will be addressed below

4. I don't care about the guys she was with before. She was with one of my good friends/roomates for christsake. The key point is this is before she knew I wanted to be with her. I am angry only about those men that were there during that period. This is not the typical double standard. I was there for her when she needed someone to vent to, when she needed help with work, I was her best friend. And then when I asked for us to be together? She turns me down. Fine. She goes and screws around with a bunch of other guys, and then when she's done expects me to be waiting just like before. And like a ****ing hopeless piece of **** I was. **** that cunt. Why should she have not seen other guys? Why did she come back to me? What I'm just supposed to be ok with "hey I didn't like you before, and I ****ed around with a bunch of other guys and decided I don't want to be treated like **** anymore so now we can be together! yay!" Yes, she had no committment. Why am I angry? Because I loved her, and then she kicked me to the curb to be with these guys, and then when she wanted something more, she came back. THAT is the fundamental difference between me and all the other guys complaining about their girl's past. She knew I cared for her, she apparently said once "oh, I have him wrapped around my finger. He does what I want." She knew I cared for her, screwed around, then came back to me like nothing had happened. My point is she should have never been with those guys if she was going to come back to me. **** her. ****ing slut.

(I'm sorry for the virtolic tone. I don't mean to be abrasive to you.)

5. Yes my ego. My instinct. I can't explain it, but it is intrinsic to me. What I feel without thinking. We all have it. It's that part of you that yells obscenitites when someone cuts you off, the part of you that gets instantly angry when you are wronged. Yes she should have if she was going to get together with me. She knew I cared, and yet chose to do these things and now wants to pretend it's a clean slate? Yes I understand that is illogical. But tell me you don't at least understand where this is coming from.

6./7. What did she do wrong? She did all those things without regard for my feelings. If she had any idea that she wanted to be with me (and she did, she apparently talked to her friends about me) she should've tried to figure it out without these other guys. When it boils down to it, I'm angry she said no to me, screwed around, and then came back to me expecting open arms. I'm angry that forever I am the dip**** who was miserable for 3 months while she got filled out by these other guys ONLY to come back. Angry that all my friends think I am weak for taking her back. Angry that all her friends know all the things she did, and how she played me like a violin. Angry that she still considers these experiences she doesn't regret. Angry that there has to be this time in our lives when I cared for her still and she was slutting about. Angry that I do so much for her, only to have to think about EVERYDAY how I was screwed over in the past.

Now she should have never come back to me. In fact now, I wish she hadn't. My love for her has just been slowly twisted and peverted into a burning, seething hate. It's so deep that now I realize there is logic to your arguements. But it just doesn't care. I'd be happier watching her burn, and our relationship burn than us being happy together. Because us being happy together means I'm the sad sap who had no balls and everyone can watch as I settle with this bitch that played me.

8. I guess it was being blinded by possesiveness. But you know what? I'm starting to come to terms with my anger and that things will never change. I should have never started this relationship in the first place. A misguided adventure. (She didn't tell me about these guys until 3 months into the relationship.) In another life we could have been together. I can't be with her now. I will always see her as flawed. But the truth is...she is a great girl. And she deserves better than this, than me. I can't deal with this anger anymore. There is obviously nothing that will help this. I think I'm going to break up with her. I don't think I have ever been this furious. And yet while your arguments seem so logical. I just can't accept them. I won't. I can't let her win. And the sad part is, I know it's not a contest.

[TaraMaiden]

Actually, this is good.

This is anger that's been festering and waiting to come out, and I think writing has put your principles into perspective.

You feel like you were a second choice, and a walk-over patsy she settled for, because she knew she could tug your leash any time she wanted.

 

look, I'm not going to judge either her or you, but it's very clear that when it comes to standards of behaviour, principles, promiscuity and dignity, you guys are on different pages.

 

You love her, but it's not going to work.

Your agenda is too conditional, and she can't meet the standards you wish she had.

She's more liberal, relaxed and can't see the big deal.

 

She is who she is.

You are who you are.

Love isn't enough.

 

by all means break up.

But I would suggest continuing with counselling, being honest, coming to terms with who you are, seeing your faults and foibles (whatever YOU might perceive them to be) and deciding what - if anything - you want to do about them.

 

Set the standard.

Then stick to it.

[rushedin2011]

Thank you. I feel like I got a lot off my chest. I don't think this relationship is going to work. You are right, my love is conditional. And there is no way she will now ever be able to meet it. To be completely honest I am boiling over on the inside, but I also feel strangely at peace. Acceptance maybe? I will not be seeing her until jan/after break. I will show this transcript to my counselor, and the decide what to do from there. I do think breaking up might be the only option by which I can alleviate these thoughts. Thank you for all your advice and putting up with my childish and vulgar language. I feel like I have been able to express what I have suppressed for a long time. Best,

Rushedin2011

[TaraMaiden]

I should get paid for this....

 

I think this has been an excellent opportunity for you to truly vent, liberally, and get everything off your chest.

Your mind is probably much clearer now, and I would surmise (and it is a completely hypothetical assumption) that one of the reasons you still feel some sense of frustration, is due to the fact that it's taken you this long to straighten your thoughts out to any constructive way.... You've been trying hard and putting your best into it, but at one and the same time, you've been 'self-sabotaging' because your resentment held you back... and you just couldn't quite put your finger on why.

 

By all means show your counsellor. I think that would be constructive.

I'm very glad to have been an effective sounding board for you.

You managed to get it out and into perspective.

Well done.

 

Take care, all the best.

TM.

[rushedin2011]

I had a chance to sleep on what was said yesterday, and I'm feeling a little more calm and anxious to begin the next steps. I feel like I can trust your judgement, and I just have a couple more questions if you have the time.

1. Do you think it is possible for me to get over these feelings? Is it even possible as long as a view myself as "second choice, walkover patsy?" is there anyway I can start to see that I'm not the second choice? (even though the thought of thinking otherwise begins to infuriate me.)

2. I'm tempted to ask you who is in the right here, but I know whatever is said I will believe that I am. Can you give me your honest opinion on what should happen here? On how I should feel? Or is that something only I can determine?

Thanks again

[TaraMaiden]

.....

1. Do you think it is possible for me to get over these feelings? Is it even possible as long as a view myself as "second choice, walkover patsy?" is there anyway I can start to see that I'm not the second choice? (even though the thought of thinking otherwise begins to infuriate me.)

 

Well there's your stumbling block.

You really don't want to move past this.

 

A Relationship is a 50/50 responsibility thing, and both partners are 100% responsible for the care, maintenance, polishing and upkeep of their part. There is no imbalance here, just as there cannot be only one member in a relationship of two. It's clean down the middle...

 

Please note: 'Responsibility' is different to 'blame'.....Blame can be massively disproportional: And currently your thinking indicates that you actually believe the largest part of the blame is at her feet. How can you possibly get past something where you believe the major part of the work needs to be done by someone else?

 

 

2. I'm tempted to ask you who is in the right here, but I know whatever is said I will believe that I am. Can you give me your honest opinion on what should happen here? On how I should feel? Or is that something only I can determine?

 

And here again, even though I pointed out some factors previously where the 'right/wrong' line might have been blurred - you're not persuaded.

That's not a criticism, it's an observation, but I would ask you now to start thinking from a different angle.

 

You seem to be indicating that your problem (If I may call it that) is something you have to handle, even though you equally seem to think the blame lies with her.

 

Have you considered what you believe SHE needs to do for you to rectify this balance?

 

It really depends on how much effort you are prepared to put into this, and whether you actually believe that you - as a couple - and she - as a partner - are worth it.

I think you want her to validate, acknowledge and agree that everything you feel is not only right, but justified, rational and absolutely reasonable and understandable.

And as far as I am aware from what you have recounted so far, not only has that NOT happened - but it's unlikely that it even will.

 

Being in a relationship isn't always about who is right or wrong.

There's huge give and take, and as partners, we are not here to validate the worth of the other person, or hold up their ego. That person should find worth and validation within themselves - FOR themselves.

That said, 'Compromise is the road to ruin' because too much of it inevitably means that one partner will remain slightly jaded and disappointed.

 

What you have to determine within yourself is whether your principles are being compromised - or whether your 'male Ego' has taken a dent.

 

Do you feel emasculated and second best?

 

Why do you feel that way, and why have you nurtured that sentiment?

I say 'nurtured', because I suspect that the longer you have harboured these feelings, the worse they have become.... So in effect, you've been feeding the demon....

 

I think - although she bears 100% of her part of the responsibility for the condition of your relationship - you need to perhaps also turn inwardly and examine your final question - "On how I should feel? Or is that something only I can determine?" and ask it in conjunction of your self-evaluation, your self-esteem, your self-worth.

 

Relationships are sustained by three important, vital and co-dependent factors: They are in fact, like the tripod supporting the fragile porcelain dish within the laboratory....

These three, inseparable and co-effective factors are:

 

Communication (effective and constructive)

Respect (For self and partner)

Trust.

 

If one of these is damaged, bent or broken, the other two - with the best will and effort in the world - cannot function effectively to hold the relationship up on their own, or even as a pair...

 

Which do you see as damaged, and which do you see to be in good order?

 

From where I'm sitting, they could all do with a bit of attention, couldn't they....?

[rushedin2011]

I think that is very insightful. As you said, I don't think I want to get past this. I paradoxically want us to be happy together, but at the same time don't ever want to forget what she did to me. I do "blame" her for this problem. The problem is even more complex because I don't know what I even want from her to rectify this. Even if she could do work to make this better, I have no idea what that would entail to be honest.

 

I think i mentioned before that I have had multiple disagreements with her about it. And she has come to realize how it has affected my psyche, and she apologized. That placated me for a bit, and yet here I am. I think she does, to a certain degree understand where i am coming from.

 

I do feel emasculated and second best. I think I have articulated why I feel this way in the above posts. And now that I think about it I have nutured this feeling perhaps becuase I have tried to be such an attentive and thoughtful boyfriend. And to be honest she hasn't quite lived up to what I would have hoped. I try to do everything that she likes, abide by her schedule, pick out thoughtful gifts etc. When it comes down to it, there is an underlying sense of discontent with our relationship. I'm a more subdued personality and don't really voice my concerns. I think now that perhaps there was this beast (everything we have discussed up to now) that should've died a long time ago, but i have been nuturing it with the discontent I have in the relationship. Does that make sense? I'm not trying to say the past isn't a BIG problem, but I suspect now that a)not having dealt with it b) being unhappy about the status quo in the relationship have both fed into making this unmanageable.

 

I do feel justified in being angry, but even I can understand how unreasonable holding this grudge is becoming. It is holding me back, forcing me to live in a past I cannot change. I feel like I need to accept that there is pain associated with that period. i need time to reflect on whether she will continue to remind me of that pain (which I suspect will be the case) and if I can accept this as part of our past in order to build our future together or apart.

 

When you talk about CRT and them being a tripod of supporting a relationship. I realize now that I thought we had all three completely. When in fact, we only have each in a "incomplete" form. To use your analogy, our tripod isn't strong. Each leg is damaged, but not broken. Therefore we have been able to support an imperfect relationship thus far. But obviously things cannot continue as they are.

[TaraMaiden]

Briefly, two points:

I think you've been buying her affection, to show you're better than those guys, as a way to compensate you for what you believe you are not.

 

Being attentive towards her has left you still feeling resentful, because you've always done it with this subliminal agenda in mind.

 

It's not that 'she hasn't quite lived up to what you would have hoped'... she didn't know how high the bar was.

But you want the same kind of consideration and attention you believe those guys had off her. And you don't feel you're getting it. You're jealous of an unseen spectre... and really, it's a bit like one of those Tom and Jerry cartoons, where you see the gigantic, colossal shadow of a creeping monster, thrown onto the wall by a small light... but it's just a mouse....

It's possible that in your suppressing these factors, they've really blown up out of all proportion...

 

Carl Jung stated;

"The Past is over; Forgiveness means giving up all Hope of a Better Past".

 

You not only need to let go of the past and forgive her; you need to forgive yourself for sabotaging it, and for carrying a load for such a long time, that even you were unaware of, with regard to its depth and magnitude.

 

You're intelligent, and susceptible to logical argument; You're capable of taking a step back, and evaluating where things are flawed.

That's really an extremely commendable albeit sadly rare trait, and one that goes in your favour.

 

So - what now?

[rushedin2011]

I apologize for the delay in communication. I've been doing some thinking in the meantime.

 

I think what you said in the first part is true. I probably am wanting the "attention and consideration" those others "received from her." I think that definitely plays a large role in my feelings. I do feel inferior to those other men, and like you pointed out, it is largely an imaginary spectre.

 

I think more applicably, there is also a nuance on this idea of her not knowing where the bar/unmet expectations. I think now that I fell in love with the "an idea of her." And perhaps not who she is. I have been doing some thinking. I realize now that if she had told me when she first came to me that she had been with those other guys I probably wouldn't have started dating her. In my head, perhaps naively, I thought she was figuring things out by herself. Not hooking up with other people. In many aspects of our relationship I expect something of her, for her to be willing to try new things, patient, thoughtful, attentive to my needs. I'm not saying that she doesn't at all, but what I realize now is that perhaps she doesn't do all those things as I thought she would. She is a great girl, kinds caring pretty. I guess the truth is I thought she was someone else. Now that I think about it, there is an undercurrent of dissatisfaction in my relationship with her, and I guess with her in general. And although the past bothers me, I realize that I have been using it as a crutch to support my dissatisfaction. Think of the past as a marble (a seed of discontent) and rubber bands as example of my day to day discontent. I have built a big rubber band ball around this marble. But really, all of this dissatisfaction and anger I feel is really a distraction from what is obvious to me now. I didn't fall in love with her, the truth is I fell in love with my idea of who and what she was.

 

I'm not sure if that all makes sense. But for me, I see it clearly now. I'm not sure what happens now. I guess I will need to talk with my counselor, and think about where to go. Do I tell her my feelings about all this, or do I direct the conversation towards fixing the relationship? Do I even try to move this relationship forward?

[TaraMaiden]

Again, you have to decide how much it's worth the effort.

But you can't 'fix' anything by yourself.

You have to have an agreement and compliance, a cooperation between you both.

Does she see that 'fixing' is required?

 

If you seek a particular ideal, and she doesn't fit the mould - intrinsically, people cannot change themselves to fit what you want them to be.

You either have to accept that she is who she is - "warts and all" - or you have to concentrate on locating that which fulfils your needs/desires/requirements.

 

Do you think that woman even exists, by the way? Or have you built up such an image of whom you need, that actually it's unrealistic?

 

Confucius said, "Seek not every quality in one individual". (no, really, he did.....)

 

And do you fit an ideal, or are there aspects of you that perhaps need their rough edges knocking off?

 

You cannot 'demand' a particular level of excellence in another, if you trip at the first hurdle....

I'm not being critical, but you've been trying to keep this lady on a pedestal, and then asking her to dust it.

 

She is who she is. her history is what it is.

 

The bottom line is, do you have what it takes to accept that, or not?

[rushedin2011]

To be honest, I don't know what she thinks. If I had to guess, I would guess that she doesn't think there needs to be a fix which requires cooperation on both sides. I think she believes that the problem lies solely within my conception of the past. And I think that is completely understandable. There definitely needs to be communication between us

 

I realize that a person changing instrinsically does not happen. And I guess I'm stuck at the crossroads of, can I accept her for who she is? Or am I still yearning for someone else? Something I will need to think about. There is something that should be considered though. I perhaps should have mentioned this earlier, but I thought (up till now) that this had nothing to do with my present situation. During my gf and I's early dating phase, there was another girl. She was a very close friend, and in fact my best friend. She had to leave the country on work around the time my gf and I were talking about becoming a serious couple. This other girl confessed to me that she loved me, without thinking I said it back to her over text. This ended quickly once she had to leave (we both realized nothing could come from it.) Shortly thereafter, my current gf and I became serious. This other girl and I have not kept in touch other than an occasional letter or text every couple of months. When you say "ideal", I now realize perhaps I think of this girl. She and I clicked on many levels, and I guess I feel like many of the qualities that my current gf lacks, are found in this other girl. For example this girl was very thoughtful, something I find lacking in my more self centered gf. However the reality is that I no longer know this girl anymore. I roughly have this ideal in mind (based off her) that is fictional because I don't know her anymore. A freeze frame, enhanced perhaps by current dissatisfaction? THAT SAID, I do not believe I have feelings for this girl anymore.

 

I fully admit that I am not perfect. This aforementioned part of the story demonstrates that. You ask, do I have what it takes to "accept her for who she is

' [sic]. Granted our discussion, and peeling back of the onion if you will I believe that I do. (I should point out that NONE of this would have been possible without your help. Thank you.) However I think the real question that I need to answer now is, do I move forward with this relationship or not? And I'm not sure what the answer is/how to determine that.

[rushedin2011]

Forgot to address your first question. My gut reaction is yes, it is worth it. But given all these issues we have discussed, i'm not so sure anymore