kiababy Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 One of my biggest pet peeves since I joined LS has been the statement: "If he really loved you, he would leave his wife...." Watch the news - some men would rather KILL their wives than divorce them. What does that tell you? Link to post Share on other sites
TineeTam Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy Watch the news - some men would rather KILL their wives than divorce them. What does that tell you? It tells me not to get involved with married men! It also tells me that if I ever suspect that my husband is cheating to hire a PI to prove it and then dump the bastard! I do happen to believe that if a man really loved an OW, he would leave his wife. At least, an honest cheater would! Sometimes it's possible that a married person will fall out of love with their spouse and in love with someone else. The decent thing to do is to get a divorce and start a new life with the new person. If a man (or woman) is not willing to do that, then its more than making a few bad choices in behavior--it is a character flaw. I sure wouldn't want to be the OW and think that "Awe, he must really love me---he killed his wife so he could be with me" Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 Good points but having been through a divorce myself, I know it's not an easy process by any stretch of the imagination. I just wish more OW would understand that even if you're lucky enough to be involved with a guy that does the honourable thing and leaves his wife (it does happen, my dad married his OW), it's not going to be all wine and roses. Even the most civil divorce has some emotional turmoil. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy I just wish more OW would understand that even if you're lucky enough to be involved with a guy that does the honourable thing and leaves his wife (it does happen, my dad married his OW), it's not going to be all wine and roses. Even the most civil divorce has some emotional turmoil. Very true. If I were an OW and a man divorced his wife for me and went through all the turmoil and emotional pain of a divorce (especially if children are involved) it would be a testament to how much he really loved me. Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I firmly believe, being a woman involved with a married man, that most men that are still unhappily married is because they have something to lose.... whether it be children, money or whatever. You may be the best thing that has ever happend to him but men don't think the way we do...... I would give up everything in my life for the married man I'm in love with (with the exception of my children) but it's because women are romantic. We would do anything for love and to be loved.... men are more grounded. So when you ask "why won't he leave his wife?" you need to ask at the same time "what does he have to lose when he does leave his wife?" Link to post Share on other sites
AngryHurt Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 If a married man really wanted to be with the OW then why on earth would he be willing to spend the rest of his life with his wife and not the OW instead? I don't believe that a man will stay married to a women he doesn't want to be married to. If he's married to his wife it's because he WANTS to be or maybe he really would prefer to be with you but isn't about to leave his comfy situation and go through the hassle of divorce and losing half of everything he owns... you're just not worth it. The MM I'm involved with got married without a prenup... tells me he will lose everything in a divorce or at least be finanically so devasted he won't be able to recover at his age. They have no kids. I wonder if divorce is really that devastating financially? Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 If a married man really wanted to be with the OW then why on earth would he be willing to spend the rest of his life with his wife and not the OW instead? I don't believe that a man will stay married to a women he doesn't want to be married to. Nonsense, my dad would still be married to my mother if she hadn't divorced him. He had no intention of ending his marriage. They had an ugly, bitter, hatefilled marriage and he had an OW; who he subsequently married. That lasted 10 years then he divorced her - not because she had been his OW, but because she was a psycho b**th. I've been through a divorce myself - it's the worst hell I've ever experienced. I initiated the break-up of my marriage but I would not recommend it to anyone - if you can stand your partner at all....stay together. Yeah, pretty ironic coming from an OW. By the way, when I first met my MM and we were only in the 'fling' stage - I gave that advice to him. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Reasons abound why adulterous husbands and wives stay in unhappy marriages rather than bolt to their OW or OM. First, the status quo is easier than expensive, traumatic change--especially change that could adversely affect children. Divorce/separation are wrenching to families and should be a last, not first, resort. Second, often an affair will will make a bad or sub-optimum marriage bearable. Some marriages are triangulated, with the OM or OW as the hidden (or not-so-hidden) spouse: A silent partner, if you will. Third, the MM prefers his OW as the OW, not as wife number 2 or 3. The OW and MM often relate through pleasure, fantasy, intense sexual games. When an OW dwindles into a wife, humdrum domesticity replaces sexual ecstasy. Last, the MM has no incentive to undergo an agonizing separation and divorce to replace wives when he can enjoy the stability, support and connubial pleasures of marriage and the white hot sexual escapism of a torrid affair. The MM can be Mr. Dad and Mr. Stud. The lesson for OW: You're dessert on your MM's life menu, not the main course. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Thanks for that post Sinner. Strangely enough, when I fantasize about MM and myself together, I never picture my real life. It's always the two of us alone, no kids, no family and no real everyday life. One time he wanted to make love in every room of my house. But I couldn't go near my sons' rooms - they weren't home and he's never met them - I had to close the doors to their rooms...way to much reality for me! Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Originally posted by Guest Very true. If I were an OW and a man divorced his wife for me and went through all the turmoil and emotional pain of a divorce (especially if children are involved) it would be a testament to how much he really loved me. This just kills me. What I hear you saying is: "I would like the man I love to go through as much turmoil and hurt as possible to prove that he loves me." Is that really love, or just the ultimate in insecurity? On another note.... A girl that I grew up with, her father had a mistress. The father had this affair for years, 20 or 30 probably. And everybody knew it, my friend was the one who told me about it. Her Mom knew it, all the kids knew, the kid's friends (like me) knew, my Mom knew about it, etc. It wasn't talked about openly though. My friend told me the mistress had big boobs and that's why her Dad liked her. (Her Mom was not well endowed.) There were 8 children in my friend's family, so I don't think lack of sex was an issue. And from what I could tell, the Mom and Dad had a good relationship. Their family didn't have much money either. My friend's father died a few years ago, still married to my friend's Mom. The Mom and Dad retired, and went on lots of trips together, so they must have had at least a decent relationship. Like most things, I don't think you can generalize about reasons for affairs, or what functions they serve for the people involved. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Affairs are often recreational, escapist, and intensely pleasurable for the players. An affair is summer camp for the Id. That you would not want to mix, even symbolically, affair hijinks with the serious , adult business of caring for your children, is not surprising. Affairs, unlike marriage and children, frequently have very little to do with what we term "real life." Hence, the "fatal attraction." Link to post Share on other sites
Fran_H Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Originally posted by sinner an affair will will make a bad or sub-optimum marriage bearable. Some marriages are triangulated, with the OM or OW as the hidden (or not-so-hidden) spouse: A silent partner, if you will. MM prefers his OW as the OW, not as wife number 2 or 3. The OW and MM often relate through pleasure, fantasy, intense sexual games. When an OW dwindles into a wife, humdrum domesticity replaces sexual ecstasy. MM has no incentive to undergo an agonizing separation and divorce to replace wives when he can enjoy the stability, support and connubial pleasures of marriage and the white hot sexual escapism of a torrid affair. The MM can be Mr. Dad and Mr. Stud. The lesson for OW: You're dessert on your MM's life menu, not the main course. Sinner, this exactly the stuff I need to read right now. I am laughing to myself as I read this because I can hear MM all over the world screaming 'STOP - DON'T TELL THEM THAT!!' Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Thank-you, fran. As you may have noticed, very few admitted MMs disclose trade secrets on LoveShack. Such secrecy is an Infidelity Trade Guild membership requirement. Link to post Share on other sites
fanou22 Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Originally posted by sinner The lesson for OW: You're dessert on your MM's life menu, not the main course. I have to say this. Sinner, your posts are awesome as usual. How many times do we skip the main course or barely touch it because dessert is irresistible??? Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 You're right, fanou. It is almost always about appetite. Also, thank-you for the kind words. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 sometimes a married guy stays in his marriage because he's not quite as unhappy as the OW would like to fantasize. sometimes he's quite happy. and why wouldn't he be? he has the best of both worlds. for those of us OW and ex-OW, think about it. some of us are also ex-wives that were cheated on by men that told us they loved us, told us there was nothing wrong and STILL cheated. years later i asked my husband why. he couldn't tell me the truth right after i left him because he was still hoping i'd come back. now that there is no chance of that he could finally give it to me straight. he cheated because he liked having sex with other women. it really was just as simple as that. he said he sometimes told some of them he loved them. he said he thought he could get away with it and that not once did he ever want to leave our marriage although he sure told almost every single OW that. maybe he's lying to me now and he really was unhappy like he told them but i doubt it. he has no reason to lie about it now. btw, he also told most of them that i was a bitch that didn't understand him and treated him badly. and that's pretty damn funny, believe me. i was such a royal bitch i shopped at victoria's and brought home tons of sexy stuff to wear to greet him at the door when he would come dragging his ass home at 2 in the morning when the bars would close. i was the bitch that always took care about how i looked and always looked for new recipes to make for him to please him. i was the bitch that was home for the nights he cared to come home drunk off his ass puking. i doubt many of the OW had to clean up the puke off the floor while trying to figure out how to lift his 6'4 body to the bed. see, i KNOW the OW only saw the life of the party guy. i know they only saw the sweet guy that flattered and bought them drinks and flowers. i sincerely doubt any of them saw this same guy crying and begging me to come home when i finally got tired of it. see, they got the fantasy and i got the ugly stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Beautifully said, littleflowerpot. You've gone right to the heart of the matter. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by sinner Beautifully said, littleflowerpot. You've gone right to the heart of the matter. i'm wordy but i try. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Well, I guess I'm getting shortchanged as an OW: - he made it clear from day one he LOVES his wife, she's beautiful and he never says anything negative about her (except for the poor sex life) and he has no plans to leave her - he has never told me he loves me, just that I mean a lot to him - I don't get wined and dined...I make waaaayyyy more money than he does, but he doesn't ask me for anything either so I guess we're even - I actually did have to go downtown at 2:00a.m. and pick him up when he was drunk and standing on the sidewalk outside of a strip club last week....he calls me a lot when he's drunk..... hmmmmmm......maybe I'm more of a wife than a girlfriend..... Why do I stay? Because I can be myself with him; because I talk to him more than anyone else in my life, and about anything, we share all of our deepest darkest secrets.....and let's face it - he's gorgeous, smells great and the sex is unf***ingbelievable. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy Well, I guess I'm getting shortchanged as an OW: - he made it clear from day one he LOVES his wife, she's beautiful and he never says anything negative about her (except for the poor sex life) and he has no plans to leave her - he has never told me he loves me, just that I mean a lot to him - I don't get wined and dined...I make waaaayyyy more money than he does, but he doesn't ask me for anything either so I guess we're even - I actually did have to go downtown at 2:00a.m. and pick him up when he was drunk and standing on the sidewalk outside of a strip club last week....he calls me a lot when he's drunk..... hmmmmmm......maybe I'm more of a wife than a girlfriend..... Why do I stay? Because I can be myself with him; because I talk to him more than anyone else in my life, and about anything, we share all of our deepest darkest secrets.....and let's face it - he's gorgeous, smells great and the sex is unf***ingbelievable. but what you've just said doesn't seem to support that your MM is unhappy with his marriage. please believe that i don't mean to sound cruel but it does sound as if you are just some fun for him that will pick him up when he's drunk at 2 in the morning and give him all the sex he wants. you deserve better than that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Maybe that's all we both want. We accept each other unconditionally and explore all the crazy stuff we've always fantasized about but were afraid to share with SO's in our lives. He said it best the other night: "I think we're both addicted to this." Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Matilda This just kills me. What I hear you saying is: "I would like the man I love to go through as much turmoil and hurt as possible to prove that he loves me." Is that really love, or just the ultimate in insecurity? But that is not what I meant. (just goes to show how difficult it is to accurately express oneself in writing sometimes) If I were an OW and a man divorced his wife for me and went through all the turmoil and emotional pain of a divorce (especially if children are involved) it would be a testament to how much he really loved me. If I were an OW and the MM I am seeing has decided to divorce his wife to be with me, I would take that as a sign that he loves me and does not love his wife. A testament, not a test. I would not expect it, nor demand it as proof of his love for me. But a man willing to go through the pain of divorce, and the pain of dealing with his children and their trauma, so that he could be with me, would foster more respect from me for the love that he has for me. It's a difficult decision to make. I respect a man who gets a divorce before he embarks on dating or love affairs, more than a man who has an affair. I understand that people fall out of love with each other. While being an OW or OM might not be respectable by itself, if two people are in love then the right thing to do is divorce the spouse and begin a relationship with the OW/OM. If a person doesn't do that strictly because of his or her children, I can understand that too. Kids should come first. But I also think that parents owe it to their kids to be happy themselves and that means a happy marriage. Kids will adjust. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Hey - let me not minimize our friendship here. We talk and text message back and forth almost every single day. He remembers everything I tell him and he's sweet and affectionate, he loves holding me and being held. The few times he has slept at my house he kept reaching over just to touch me and see if I was still there. Yes he calls me drunk from bars sometimes, but other nights when he's been out drinking he's also called me from outside of his house (after his buddies have dropped him off), and from his couch after he's already in his house. Of course I never went over there to get him. Sometimes he just has this need to be with me, or a need to talk to me .....it upsets him if I don't answer my phone - not to arrange a 'booty call' -just to talk to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 One thing that I refused to let my first MM do with me was a therapy sex service. I didn't want to hear about his problems with his wife, and I artfully found ways of not letting him talk about her. He had no intention of leaving his wife-because he loves her obviously, even though had stated differently earlier on. What he wanted was someone fun that he was sexually attracted to to get him through his tough days. He didn't want to give up his life-not the wife-the house, the kids, the vehicle, the social circle. I hope he thinks twice before he does it again. Every situation is different, and rules change for the particulars. There is more than one type of affair anyways-the ones that end in the dissolution of the marriage for the new relationship are referred to as "dealbreakers" where the spouse is looking for a way OUT. Which one are you? Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 He told me early on that IF he leaves her, he will not do it FOR someone else, he'll leave when he 'can't take it anymore'. I didn't ask what 'it' was because at the time it didn't matter to me. This IS NOT a 'dealbreaker' relationship. It is what it is. We don't talk about his marriage on a regular basis, he brings it up once in a while, just a few sentences - and the two of them don't have children....yet. We talk about each other. We're in our own little fantasy world, and that's where we stay. Link to post Share on other sites
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