Matilda Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Guest Kids will adjust. Adults can adjust too. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 i was one of those kids with a mother and step-father that held us captive in their loveless marriage. it was horrible. we kids prayed they would divorce and asked them to often. still, i don't think affairs would have helped. that would probably have been further trauma for we children. Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I agree with you little flowerpot, that sometimes it is worse for children for the parents to stay together. If the husband and wife can find a way to be happy and civil, even if the marriage is less than ideal, then I think it is better for parents to stay married. (And I believe that is what studies say as well.) Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 I wish my parents had divorced when I was still a baby, so I wouldn't have to grow up witnessing their hatred for each other. I would have been better off. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy I wish my parents had divorced when I was still a baby, so I wouldn't have to grow up witnessing their hatred for each other. I would have been better off. do you think this might be one of the reasons we've been drawn to unavailable men? maybe we subconciously feel that happiness is fleeting and our belief that the institution of marriage is false? i agree, matilda, in a more perfect world that that would be best. however, i think kids are much more instinctively smarter than that would give them credit. i think they feel the status of our relationships and maybe that would be sending them the wrong message. i have to think about it more. Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Flowerpot, you are right kids can sense a lot of things, but if the parents can keep things reasonably smooth then I'm not sure that matters as much as having an intact home. My own parents divorced when I was a preteen. My whole reality changed at that time. My parents did not fight. I don't remember them fighting at all. My Dad was unfaithful during their marriage however, and that is why they divorced I think. Although, they are very different people in many ways, and married young. And flowerpot, your thought about thinking that happiness is fleeting, I think holds true for me. I think that had a lot to do with my poor choice of husband in my first marriage, and it has caused me problems in my second marriage. It's like I'm afraid when things are too calm, I keep waiting for my world to end again. Almost like I'm afraid to be happy. My current husband has helped me a lot to get over that feeling. He has taught me a lot about being happy with simple things, and letting go of my need for drama. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 do you think this might be one of the reasons we've been drawn to unavailable men? maybe we subconciously feel that happiness is fleeting and our belief that the institution of marriage is false? Flowerpot, when you were married did you have the feeling that it would never last? I did. When we moved into our 'dream' home in my head I was thinking "....this will be over soon....". While I was married, I also used to refer to my husband as 'my first husband'....I thought it was pretty funny at the time, he didn't. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by Matilda Flowerpot, you are right kids can sense a lot of things, but if the parents can keep things reasonably smooth then I'm not sure that matters as much as having an intact home. My own parents divorced when I was a preteen. My whole reality changed at that time. My parents did not fight. I don't remember them fighting at all. My Dad was unfaithful during their marriage however, and that is why they divorced I think. Although, they are very different people in many ways, and married young. And flowerpot, your thought about thinking that happiness is fleeting, I think holds true for me. I think that had a lot to do with my poor choice of husband in my first marriage, and it has caused me problems in my second marriage. It's like I'm afraid when things are too calm, I keep waiting for my world to end again. Almost like I'm afraid to be happy. My current husband has helped me a lot to get over that feeling. He has taught me a lot about being happy with simple things, and letting go of my need for drama. i'm happy you're happy now. i have hope for my own future but i still have a lot of work to do on myself first. Link to post Share on other sites
littleflowerpot Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy Flowerpot, when you were married did you have the feeling that it would never last? I did. When we moved into our 'dream' home in my head I was thinking "....this will be over soon....". While I was married, I also used to refer to my husband as 'my first husband'....I thought it was pretty funny at the time, he didn't. it's not that i didn't think the marriage would last. to be honest, i never thought my husband would leave me. i still don't think he would have. i had to leave. and i can't say we were ever really happy. he was my high school sweetheart and was abusive even in high school. he was controlling, jealous and an alcoholic before he hit 20. but it was what i was used to. i'm more afraid that love won't last. now, i'm not even sure any of the three serious relationships i had were ones where the guy really loved me so much as lusted after me first and then saw i was a nice mommy. Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I've been reading these posts everyday trying to get advise because I'm in love with a married man and I almost forgot what it was like to be on the other side until today reading the things littleflowerpot and kiababy have been saying. I have two children and was unhappily married for ten years. I felt that if my children were to grow up heathly they deserved to observe two people completely in love and happily married ... we didn't have that so I left. Looking back now, maybe if I wasn't so selfish it might have worked ... I wasn't happy and yes he was cheating and I remember feeling like **** because of it but I deserved it. I didn't love him the way I should. So instead someone else did. So today, knowing what I know, I don't feel so guilty being with my married man (although we've never had sex) because I know from experience that he is seeking me because of something his wife doesn't give him. Ladies, we need to do what we need to do to keep our men at home. Just like they need to do what they need to do to keep us at home. It works both ways and I truly believe if both partners are in love and giving in the relationship this whole cheating business would be non-existant no matter what the sex drive on either side. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Dear Blue - you didn't deserve to be cheated on - no wife does. But it does take two people putting 110% into their marriage to make it work. Marriage is damn hard work! My husband didn't cheat on me (he was too busy spying on me to make sure I would cheat, I didn't), but he didn't really care that I wasn't happy, and I didn't care to put any effort into being married to him. My MM loves his wife but has decided she doesn't satisfy him in the way he wants to be satisfied - mainly sex, but also massive amounts of attention. His wife loves him, I'm sure - but she has decided that sex is a chore to be tolerated, not to be enjoyed. Maybe she's resentful and has psychological problems and it's not her fault - if that's the case she should DO SOMETHING about it, not cry about him leaving her. MM says I HELP his marriage because he doesn't have to make demands on her. If I am ever so lucky to get into a long-term, monogamous relationship some day, I hope that my partner and I will have the patience and willingness to make it work. Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Kiababy ~ please know that eventually your MM will have to make some sort of demand or leave.... it's inevitable. I am not in the know as far as what the two of you share but if it is as deep as what I share with the man I have chosen to be with I hope he is the one you are in the monogamous relationship with someday because it sounds (reads) like that's what you want eventually .... I must reiterate... I deserved to be cheated on. I ignored my husband because I wasn't happy. Every human being needs to be needed and loved. Forgive me for skipping around.... This whole being with a married man thing is the most complicated thing I've ever had to endure. I love the man I'm with but he puts me through more pain then I think I've ever experienced in love. Waiting for phone calls or pit stops, wondering if I matter. It sucks. If I had the same strength that I do in my business with him he'd be on his knees and I'd be in control , but we all know that's not how life works When you are in love all you think about is how to get your fix of happiness not matter how short term the high. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 20, 2004 Author Share Posted August 20, 2004 Blue, I'm sorry you are going through so much pain How long have you been with him? Please tell me more about your relationship. I went thought a painful period like that but somehow we've turned it around and now we talk every day. He is not the man I will have that long-term monogamous relatiionship with. There is too much of an age difference - I'm 42, he is 26 - and I have two boys 14 and 11 that live with me and an adult daughter with two little ones of her own. There is no reason this should work but it does. We share affection, intimacy and unconditional acceptance. We communicate freely and share lots and lots of laughter. We can totally be ourselves around each other. But we don't have the mundane everyday stresses of marriage either, so that's a huge part of why it works. He is also a handful - a jock who plays, coaches and watches sports every chance he gets. And he drinks a lot. I've gotten many drunken phone calls in the middle of the night from him begging me to 'please come and pick me up'. For months I said no, then one night he came over anyway....so the next time I just got in my car and went downtown at 2:00 in the a.m. to pick him up. Being his OW has started to consume a lot of my time, he calls me a lot and text messages me all throughout the day. He gets upset now if I don't answer my phone. I believe we will be together for a long time, he keeps saying "I'm NEVER leaving you..." But one day he'll wear me out and I will move on. No, he is not THE ONE. Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Kiababy ~ I have been with him for only 6 months.... although it seems like 20 years and knowing how I feel about him it maybe 20 years before I let him go. I met him, connected with him and fell in love with him without him laying a hand on me. It seemed almost instant. I have stopped dating, all I do is wait. It's so pathetic how I live my life but I have my babies to keep me company and keep me sane. I have a 5 year old and a 7year old. I am 31 years old. Right now, I am waiting for him to call or show up. I know he's not because lately I've been blowing him off because it hurts too much to know that I am not the one he's going to kiss goodnight. I know it's crazy but when something hits you that hard you no longer can see what's good for you and what's not good for. I don't hear from him for days and I don't call him kinda as a sign that I have strength but when he does call my whole day changes and it's all about him ...... to be in love with a married man is something I would not wish on my worst enemy especially if you have the kind that tells you he is going to leave...... you hold onto to that. Sometimes I wonder what kind of woman I am that I've decided to settle for so little. If you knew what I looked like and how successful I was it would suprise you. This is not something I should be settling for. I am so much more then that but even as I put that into words it doesn't change that this is what I want. Anyway, thank you for your interest ~ it felt good to vent. I admire so much that you have put into perspective Link to post Share on other sites
youcandealw/it Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 my opioion is that why be involved with a married man or married woman in the first place.there are lots and lots of single people to start a relationship with instead of taking sloppy seconds.not to offend anyone but it just seems like a lot less trouble and a lot less stress. Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 You can not pick, no matter how hard you try, the person you are going to fall in love with. If you could, everyone would be happy. Besides, are you going to tell me that being with someone who isn't married is any less stressful? ALL relationships have their challanges. I agree that there are a lot of single men out there but today, at this moment I can say that none of them could possibly compare to the one I want to spend my time with. That is why I love him. I course I wish he weren't married.... I wish a lot of things when it comes to that .... By the way at this age if you are over the age of God maybe 17 EVERYONE is sloppy seconds, thirds, fourths... that was a kinda strange remark. Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 So when you ask "why won't he leave his wife?" you need to ask at the same time "what does he have to lose when he does leave his wife?" bleu6555 The lesson for OW: You're dessert on your MM's life menu, not the main course. Sinner If you guys are pulling this stuff right out of your ass, then you're amazingly gifted. GOBSMACKED, Samson Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Oh come on GOBSMACKED, is that all you have to say? Link to post Share on other sites
sinner Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Samson, your wonderful diary of a marriage in ruins was some of the best writing on LS. It's easy to turn a phrase; much more difficult to produce, as you did, painfully comic narratives on a consistent basis. I could not have done that. Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Actually I've said a lot about the subject, but in other threads................. And Sinner is right, MM do not easily give up their secrets. But I suppose I could speak for a close friend of mine, who has shared his thoughs on the subject: "Why doesn't he leave his wife....?" I'll try to be brief, but it is very accurate to say that we carefully weigh pro's and cons, and that emotional factors don't weigh very heavily. What we have to lose can amount to years, perhaps decades, of biting-the-bullet painful effort to remain married. Our emotions have erroded. We are exausted to the point of complete apathy, and whoever offers safe harbour, however shallow, seems a better alternative IF ALL OTHER FACTORS ARE EQUAL. Unhappily, there are always the externalities (health, money, kids). Link to post Share on other sites
youcandealw/it Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Say what?why don't men just divorce their wife if they are sleeping around on them.Or here's an idea,tell the little wife that your screwing someone that's tighter,more intelligent,more attrative or what ever the attration to the other woman might be that leads you astray.so then the little wife can form an opinion of her own and divorce the dog.bow wow Link to post Share on other sites
bleu6555 Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Samson, so UNEMOTIONALLY speaking, if a man strays from his wife after years of unhappiness to another woman yet not having sex with the other woman for the first time after ten years of marriage..... do you think that that man is still emotionally dead? I think the contrary. I think that some men are awaked to life when they meet a woman who can bring them a happiness they haven't felt in years.... forget the sex bull****..... have you ever seen a woman across the room and she just took your breath away? Why is it that most men fail to see the beauty of pure connection and pure happiness ... married, single whatever... AGAIN I stress you can not pick who you fall in love with ... yes, there's a lot of men out there who only think with their most of the time "little" buddy but some of the rare ones .... very rare ones, notice something that most men don't .... a true connection , something strong enough to jolt them out of unhappiness. Unhappily married men just don't get a divorce they find a reason to do it and when they do most of the time and I know this presently out of my own painful experience they can't because of money and children so they stay that way and us romantic women stick by their man hoping for the best..... I wonder if anyone wins in this situation.... Link to post Share on other sites
youcandealw/it Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 I myself would rather have dignity in how i conduct my marriage, than worry about how much a divorce would cost me all around. Link to post Share on other sites
lovelost Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 and he didn't, but the triangle was becoming more and more of a dangerous liasion. I realized something today - he doesn't care about me - he only wanted what he could get for as long as he can get it. When his girl found out about us it was becuase he finally admitted that we were having an affair. Then she began calling me, harassing me, making up IM names to hit me up online pretending it was him to get me to talk then to argue, emailing me and even approached me at work (me and him worked together). My rebut to her was that its not me she needs to argue with its her man. and that i am not the cause of their problems because if it wasnt me it would have been someone else. But the all time low was him calling me at work (he is now working elsewhere) and askng me to come downstairs and telling me that she was with him. Was he setting me up for a catfight or what?! I couldnt believe he would let her talk him into doing that. He did alert me that she was with him and she got upset that he did that and walked away, needless to say that i didn't go down to confront her, but i realized that he would do anything to spare his relationship even if it meant sacrificing me to his angry girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Author kiababy Posted August 20, 2004 Author Share Posted August 20, 2004 Our emotions have erroded. We are exausted to the point of complete apathy, and whoever offers safe harbour, however shallow, seems a better alternative IF ALL OTHER FACTORS ARE EQUAL. Unhappily, there are always the externalities (health, money, kids). Great post, I don't know your story but I gather you're still married. I started this thread not because I don't know why MM rarely leave their wives, but because I understand why people stay in bad marriages and am tired of seeing that sentence over and over again...as if it's that easy. I understand inside and outside and backwards and forwards: - I am the child of a MM who cheated and then MARRIED his OW - it was all around me growing up - but my dad did not leave my mother FOR his OW, my mother divorced him - I stayed in a bad marriage for 9 years before I finally got out - I am currently an OW Blue, I would NOT be shocked to know that you are a beautiful, successful woman. There are so many reasons people find themselve in an OW/OM MM/MW relationship. There's no rhyme or reason to it. I will never understand the reasoning behind a MM's thoughts and actions in an affair, but I do understand why they don't want to or are reluctant to leave their wives. Link to post Share on other sites
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