I can't explain why women lose interest after 2 dates? (constant for years)

[bubcake]

During the last 3.5 years of being single (I'm 26), my experiences in dating have had one inexplicable constant, and I cannot figure out why this happens. For 3 years, it's gone like this: Women who I meet seem to find me attractive. They initiate contact (which is odd in itself), we go out, have a great time, and after maybe 2 dates, she always seems completely disinterested when I either call or text her.

 

Now, the thing that's followed me my whole (since age 6-7) life is having a lot of social anxiety when dealing with women (something they do NOT understand nor care about). Unfortunately, this makes it nearly impossible for me to make a move, and my theory is that this is what women find uninteresting: that I haven't made a move soon enough.

 

I just wanted to know what some people would think of this. It's been way too long and way too constant (literally 15+ women in the last 4 years) where I've had this happen…and I'd like to see if anyone could explain what it is that I'm doing wrong. Thank you for your time in reading this.

[normal person]

I'm a guy, but from what I read it sounds like you aren't very decisive or forthright. Failure or reluctance from a man to make a move or decisions isn't just "uninteresting" as you describe it -- in a guy, it's downright unattractive.

 

It makes it seem like you're not interested in her or even worse, too scared. It demonstrates a lack of confidence, and that's going to kill your chances altogether. How many girls do you hear of that want to have to make all the decisions and never be surprised or swept off their feet because their 26 year old adult boyfriend is too timid to do it? Not a lot, I imagine.

 

I see that you have social anxiety and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about the specifics of it, but I think you might expect similar results until you start taking charge. Maybe it's crass to rationalize the condition, but if girls approach you and are outwardly confident and decisive, then ideally you should be able do the same. My apologies if that's out of line, I don't know much about social anxiety.

Edited December 28, 2012 by normal person

[bubcake]

Normal person, thanks for your response. To be honest, it's pretty bad. I've had it since I was 13. A lot of medication, a lot of therapy, panic attacks, etc. What I've been diagnosed with is similar to Aspergers syndrome, and it somehow got worse over time. By the age of 24, except for work, it took every ounce of me to even get out of the house.

 

It seems to me that, this is the worst possible reality a man (who's expected to be "CONFIDENT"/ "DOMINANT") can have. I act confident in that I'm real and honest in how I present myself. However that takes 100% of my effort, so making a move is completely out of the question for me.

 

I feel that women really do not give a rat's ass about this in general, so I don't bother explaining it to them. I mean, what's the point? It would just confirm to them that you're 'broken', or whatever the hell women think of guys with these types of syndromes.

However, it is the 1 approach I've never taken: actually explaining my situation to them.

Edited December 28, 2012 by bubcake

[KraftDinner]

Normal person, thanks for your response. To be honest, it's pretty bad. I've had it since I was 13. A lot of medication, a lot of therapy, panic attacks, etc. What I've been diagnosed with is similar to Aspergers syndrome, and it somehow got worse over time. By the age of 24, except for work, it took every ounce of me to even get out of the house.

 

It seems to me that, this is the worst possible reality a man (who's expected to be "CONFIDENT"/ "DOMINANT") can have. I act confident in that I'm real and honest in how I present myself. However that takes 100% of my effort, so making a move is completely out of the question for me.

 

I feel that women really do not give a rat's ass about this in general, so I don't bother explaining it to them. I mean, what's the point? It would just confirm to them that you're 'broken', or whatever the hell women think of guys with these types of syndromes.

However, it is the 1 approach I've never taken: actually explaining my situation to them.

 

You've been making a big assumption there. How's that working out for you?

 

Not trying to be rude.

[bubcake]

You've been making a big assumption there. How's that working out for you?

 

Not trying to be rude.

 

By assumption, are you talking about my assumption that most women would basically say 'f--- this guy' the second they find out about a mental disorder? I might be, I suppose. But I don't have much faith in them by telling them. I could be wrong.

 

PS. lol, don't worry, I appreciate straight forward people. I don't think you were rude.

Edited December 28, 2012 by bubcake

[normal person]

Full disclosure: I'm not a medical professional.

 

But here's how I would approach this:

 

First, learn what sparks the anxiety. Is it a fear of a girl not being attracted you/rejection? Because if you were able to see it from her standpoint, you might notice that being too afraid to make a move might actually be much more unattractive than whatever else. So if you were to be correctly anxious about something, it'd be the indecision and lack of the move, not the act of the move itself. So maybe if you go in with the mindset that not making a move is actually the least desirable, most rejection-inducing thing you can do, it might spur you the other way. I hope that makes sense.

Edited December 28, 2012 by normal person

[TheZebra]

So how do these dates play out? From what you posted it seems like the woman approaches you first and then takes the lead over the next few dates. If that's true, then that's a big problem. Us women are told by everyone that if a guy isn't making a move or isn't calling then he's just 'not that into us'. Because of this, if you're letting her lead too much early on, she's going to think you don't see her as a romantic partner. I'm not saying you need to do all the calling, all the date planning, etc, but do something.

[MsSmurf]

Well bubcake you must be doing something right if you're getting women to go on dates with you in the first place. I'm not an expert on social anxiety, but I do know it can be nearly crippling to those who have it. Good for you seeking proper treatment and hopefully that is helping and if not then talk to your doctor about other options.

 

I agree that telling women about your social anxiety could be a turn off, but it depends on how you bring it up and when. It's not the kind of thing you just dump on someone out of nowhere and you don't want to sour the mood by coming off like a downer or seeming "broken" as you say.

 

You mention that making a move isn't an option for you, but what kind of move are you thinking about? You certainly don't have to hang all over her and you're still getting to know her. What about a lighter move like a few compliments? Not the generic... you're pretty, but something unique about her. Is holding her hand out of the question? Cause it may be old school, but its still sweet and appreciated by women looking for a good guy that actually wants a relationship. Same goes for holding doors open and any other old fashioned behavior. If things like this don't make you uncomfortable then this could be a good start at expressing your interest and eventually moving forward. It sounds like you're ok calling and texting, which is good so definitely keep that up.... but think about what you're saying. Don't just say hi. Tell her you were thinking about her and had a great time the other night. Mention something you saw, heard, etc that you thought might interest her.

 

If you do ok with lighter moves and she's still interested then maybe mention that in the past you haven't always been forthcoming about your feelings toward a woman and you're trying to do better. You don't have to toss out social anxiety just yet, but hinting at being somewhat awkward should give her a clue and hopefully won't scare her off. Then as you continue to get to know her you can gradually fill in some details about your social anxiety.

[bubcake]

Normal Person, that makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like using the fear of the fear itself to propel you to an opposite action. I liked that.

 

The Zebra: To answer your question, I'll use the latest example. Basically they'll initiate the texting for the first date and wanted to see me again. After a few weeks, I initiated the 2nd date through text. 2nd date goes fine, but when I text to set up a 3rd, suddenly she tells me she'll be busy for the next while. After that, most of the girls I've met usually only contact me casually to say what's up. There is where my confusion usually lies: the sudden loss of interest.

 

MsSmurf: I'm glad that you brought this question up. After just only in the last 1-2 years being able to actually go out, my experience with women is very limited. Because of this, I don't really understand how it is that people are supposed to behave on dates (how to flirt, etc). Hand holding for me is very awkward, as is calling (I basically only text). I get the impression that these seem to be essential facets of relationship building, so that could explain quite a few things right there lol. It's good that you pointed these things out. I would have to learn somehow how this comes about, when to hold a hand, when or how to lean in for a kiss. At least I have certain things to focus on that I can read about.

 

You guys are awesome. Thanks for taking the time to answer back

[todreaminblue]

During the last 3.5 years of being single (I'm 26), my experiences in dating have had one inexplicable constant, and I cannot figure out why this happens. For 3 years, it's gone like this: Women who I meet seem to find me attractive. They initiate contact (which is odd in itself), we go out, have a great time, and after maybe 2 dates, she always seems completely disinterested when I either call or text her.

 

Now, the thing that's followed me my whole (since age 6-7) life is having a lot of social anxiety when dealing with women (something they do NOT understand nor care about). Unfortunately, this makes it nearly impossible for me to make a move, and my theory is that this is what women find uninteresting: that I haven't made a move soon enough.

 

I just wanted to know what some people would think of this. It's been way too long and way too constant (literally 15+ women in the last 4 years) where I've had this happen…and I'd like to see if anyone could explain what it is that I'm doing wrong. Thank you for your time in reading this.

 

 

 

I also agree with the other poster i dont think it is uninteresting i think frustration and showing a lack of interest is disheartening for a woman.....i know men cop it with having to do the work and there are so many pua ideas around on how to play it cool...it becomes frustrating because you dont know if the guy is just shy not interested or read the wrong book...normally when i ask a guy hey i would like to hang out or spend some time with you i get cool well this is happening or they open with what they are doing and ill invite myself along.......say ill come......its a kamikaze approach for me......but if a guy hangs back on saying sure or cool...i doubt i would ask again......kamikazes have one shot......if i can do it you can do it ..make that first approach......i dont know why they stop at two dates for you...i give a guy time to settle with me,for them to relax see im out to make the date a good time(not meaning sex here) adn then they can open up and know im just as open back....that takes more than two dates....once nerves are out of the way thats when you have some fun and relax share some laughs and just have a good time....definitely longer than two dates to do that...i would class the two dates as feeler dates....easy does it cautiousness........if a guy says i wanna sleep with you on the second date...he is out on my terms...

 

 

you need to try to get over that two date hurdle i hope that you do ...be more confident and do some approaching first dont make a woman do all the work ......it is frustrating and disheartening.....find out what she likes doing on the second date and offer that as the third date...best wishes dating...deb

[MsSmurf]

Normal Person, that makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like using the fear of the fear itself to propel you to an opposite action. I liked that.

 

The Zebra: To answer your question, I'll use the latest example. Basically they'll initiate the texting for the first date and wanted to see me again. After a few weeks, I initiated the 2nd date through text. 2nd date goes fine, but when I text to set up a 3rd, suddenly she tells me she'll be busy for the next while. After that, most of the girls I've met usually only contact me casually to say what's up. There is where my confusion usually lies: the sudden loss of interest.

 

MsSmurf: I'm glad that you brought this question up. After just only in the last 1-2 years being able to actually go out, my experience with women is very limited. Because of this, I don't really understand how it is that people are supposed to behave on dates (how to flirt, etc). Hand holding for me is very awkward, as is calling (I basically only text). I get the impression that these seem to be essential facets of relationship building, so that could explain quite a few things right there lol. It's good that you pointed these things out. I would have to learn somehow how this comes about, when to hold a hand, when or how to lean in for a kiss. At least I have certain things to focus on that I can read about.

 

You guys are awesome. Thanks for taking the time to answer back

 

 

Waiting a few weeks before texting to ask for a second date is a big part of your problem as well. They've already assumed you weren't interested and you contacting them way later seems like they're some kind of plan b. No woman wants to be a plan b. Some women will give a guy the benefit of the doubt and go on a second date anyway, but he needs to make his interest clear quickly or there won't be a third date as you've experienced. After I've had a great date with a guy I want to see again I expect to hear from him in 1-2 days to at least say he had a good time and would like to see me again, otherwise I move on. Now in case you're wondering why its up to him to contact me, I'll tell you. At the end of a date I always let a guy know where he stands (fyi not every woman does this). If I want to see him again I'll thank him for a wonderful evening, say that I want to see him again, and give him a clue as to when I have some free time. If I don't want to see him again I'll just thank him for the evening and say I'll be busy for the next several weeks.

 

Now the texting is another issue. I'm not a big fan of texting largely because its impersonal, which is a huge barrier if you're trying to get to know someone with relationship potential. I think its fine for the quick one liners that don't really require a response, but it stinks for conversations. Conversations are where you and she learn about each other and can assess mutual interest. You need to learn to pick up the telephone and speak into it. It is only awkward if you keep insisting it is and refuse to try. Practice with friends or family if need be, but this is key to moving past 2 dates. Any woman will find it suspicious if a guy that says he's into her only communicates via text.

 

Now you mention that your experience with women is limited. Does this mean that none of your friends are women? Because I hate to break it to you, but we women are not strange beings that are difficult to relate to lol. Just talk to us. Be polite. Relax. Mention things that interest you or surprise you or seem odd to you. Ask us about ourselves. There isn't a woman on this planet who doesn't like to talk about herself. It might be really helpful for you to broaden your social activities so that you're in situations that require you to interact with a variety of women. Don't worry about if they're attractive, their age, etc. They're just women. I realize that might seem scary, but think of it as no pressure practice. It may take several tries before its comfortable, but its important to get comfortable otherwise any woman you date will pick up on your discomfort and likely assume it is disinterest.

 

As for how to act on a date, mainly you act like you want to be there and like you want to get to know her. Don't worry about flirting, just have a conversation. If the conversation is flowing you'll probably wind up flirting and not realize it. That's ok, just go with it. As for when to initiate physical contact such as hand holding or kissing? Well I'm guessing you know when you like her right? And you recognize that she likes you right? Well then that's your green light. You just take a deep breath, push the anxiety out of your head, and go for it. If she takes the lead here then be receptive if you're interested in her so she gets that you're equally interested.

 

Are there any support groups in your area for people with social anxiety? I would think such a group would be a great resource to help you learn how to navigate all social situations, not just dating. Also I think others who have it can give you ideas on how to reduce the anxiety when you're trying to push yourself out of your comfort zone.

[bubcake]

todreaminblue: You made a really interesting point on this recent trend of 'PUA philosophies'. I find many of them to be misleading, and yet any guy I meet who I chat with (this includes my friends) will talk about "not showing interest" as if it's an obvious rule that one needs to follow in order to keep interest going. Going back to what you wrote, I never really considered how disheartening it can be for women to hear the typical "yeah, I'll let you know" or "sure, if you want to join me". I'll make sure to take that into account from now on. Thanks hun.

 

 

MsSmurf: To answer the first question that you asked near the middle, I actually made my first (and so far only) female 'friend' a couple of years ago. It's probably hard to believe, but I'd never really share more than a polite chat with any classmate. I dated only once, but did not initiate anything myself at all. No siblings, no cousins or aunts. Not many women to talk to and learn from. Although, the more I get to know them now, the more I realize how accommodating and kind they can be. On what you wrote at the bottom, I've literally written it down. It was exactly what I wanted to know, and it's not the type of advice that I feel some guys can properly give.

 

From what you both wrote, I can pin point where I've been wrong. It's been my general dispassionate "safe" attitude towards them that I think has given them the wrong idea. I know what I need to change. Thank you all for being so helpful. I think I have learned enough to know where to focus on. To be honest, it's something that I have to do I feel to complete my recover so I'm compelled to actually do it. I'll let you know how it goes.

Edited December 29, 2012 by bubcake

[ErosOcean]

You have an interesting history from your posts. There's a lot of contradictions from what you post in the past, so it's hard to discern if you are being sincere.

 

Anyway, I hope things work out for you.

Edited December 30, 2012 by ErosOcean

[bubcake]

I had edited that out of one of my last posts cause I thought that people wouldn't care. You know that 1 girl i mentioned i met a few years back? She's letting me use her account. I'm not the first to use it. I didn't even know about the history.

[lovebug1234]

where are you meeting these women?

[spiderowl]

As a woman, I think the thing that would bother me is if I didn't know if the guy liked me and, hopefully in the future, wanted me as more than a friend. He doesn't need to grope me to let me know - he can be a gentleman - but I would like some direct comments about him finding me attractive and interesting, that he'd like to spend more time with me. I guess it's all about direction - not directing a woman but indicating what directions he'd like to go in in the future. If he seems unsure, then I'll assume he doesn't like me enough and probably back off.

 

If he is nervous and does not give me any of the indications above, then I'll wonder if he's alright, if there isn't some problem he hasn't told me about. It's a risk to say what you'd like - after all, the woman might reject it, but it does show you are at least brave enough to do that. What have you got to lose if it ends up the same way every time anyway? Take a chance and tell he how much you like her and that you find her attractive. Take a little step each time to indicate this - a brief kiss on the lips on the second date, a longer one on the third, and so on. No need to push her into bed on the first date, just show her she means something to you other than her being a source of anxiety.

[D-Lish]

By assumption, are you talking about my assumption that most women would basically say 'f--- this guy' the second they find out about a mental disorder? I might be, I suppose. But I don't have much faith in them by telling them. I could be wrong.

 

PS. lol, don't worry, I appreciate straight forward people. I don't think you were rude.

 

Well, it's happening in spite of you not disclosing it- so I'm not sure what the harm would be in injecting some honesty into your next date.

[2sure]

I'm going to put this out there in the event you are sincere regarding your social anxiety, awkwardness, lack of confidence.

 

My professional has consisted of preparing people to run for public office.

Not to bring politics into at all but it's important to know that it was none of my business what their accomplishments or abilities were. I only needed to make them a good candidate.

 

Take a public speaking class or join a group like toast masters. Either can turn a bumbling idiot into a charming and confident person or at least make you act like one. One thing leads to another and then you will gain confidence in every area of your life.

 

Might be completely false confidence...but that's not your problem.

[neveragain34]

I'm a guy, but from what I read it sounds like you aren't very decisive or forthright. Failure or reluctance from a man to make a move or decisions isn't just "uninteresting" as you describe it -- in a guy, it's downright unattractive.

 

It makes it seem like you're not interested in her or even worse, too scared. It demonstrates a lack of confidence, and that's going to kill your chances altogether. How many girls do you hear of that want to have to make all the decisions and never be surprised or swept off their feet because their 26 year old adult boyfriend is too timid to do it? Not a lot, I imagine.

 

I see that you have social anxiety and I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about the specifics of it, but I think you might expect similar results until you start taking charge. Maybe it's crass to rationalize the condition, but if girls approach you and are outwardly confident and decisive, then ideally you should be able do the same. My apologies if that's out of line, I don't know much about social anxiety.

 

I agree completely! I just wrote a guy off after two dates because of his lack of confidence and not making a move. He seems too scared to do it and that's a HUGE turn off. He said he is intimiadted by me which screams "pu**y" to me. I want a MAN in the relationship that isn't going to be afraid to kiss me. He lives an hour away and we had been drinking so I told him he could sleep at my place. The whole time he was in my bed, he didn't try anything! Only a nervous, awkward back rub in the same spot with no force. There's a difference between being respectful and being a pushover; I could tell he'd become a pushover eventually, as he was already headed that way. I know he likes me and it wasn't a matter of being unattracted to me because he wanted to hang out all day the next morning, while I couldn't wait to get him outta there, making up excuses of why I couldn't hang out. Then he asked me out again the next day and I said I needed my space. He still texted again today! I need to just be honest and say I'm not interested anymore. Any ideas on how to let him down gently?