Feeling really hurt right now

[iouaname]

I relate to the "losing yourself" part. I feel like that might have factored into the break up. I was kind of consumed with my ex and he began to panic that if I moved to his country (I'm American, he's Canadian) I would depend too much on him for happiness. He claims that it was more about his doubts and his situation at work but I'm not sure how much of that is true.

[NoMoreJerks]

You have a thread about "Trust and STDS" and in that thread you state that he visits Thailand 4-5 times a year and visits prostitutes. And in that same thread you talk about what the consequences of having sex with him (getting an STD) upon his return from Thailand. I'm sorry, NMJ. This is a trainwreck.

 

Zero self-respect. Zero boundaries.

 

Please go back and read your threads. He pushes you for a threesome and sends you up the wall with it only to gaslight you when you decide you can't. What boyfriend treats their girlfriend that way?

 

This is not love. This is addictive, co-dependent behavior. You're confusing your toxic attachment for love. Define love in the right and healthy sense. Just because you are attached, don't label it love. Intensity is not always love.

 

Help him? He's perfectly content with the way he is. Content with his visits to Thailand, protitutes, threesomes and such.

 

Help YOU. The fact that you need to fix him rather than yourself speaks of you having no love for yourself. It's easier to try and fix him because it allows you to take the focus off you because it's just too hard to buckle down, feel the pain and face your own demons.

Did you read the past 2 pages of this thread? Something tells me that you didn't. Because if you had, you would've realized that the last time he visited Thailand was last September, after our first break-up, and he said afterwards that he didn't want to go there again. And hasn't since then. For whatever reason. I think he had a bad experience there, which might be why. But if he's willing to dish out thousands of dollars to visit me, instead of going on 2 trips to Thailand for that same amount of money, then he does not really want to go to Thailand, does he?

[geegirl]

Did you read the past 2 pages of this thread? Something tells me that you didn't. Because if you had, you would've realized that the last time he visited Thailand was last September, after our first break-up, and he said afterwards that he didn't want to go there again. And hasn't since then. For whatever reason. I think he had a bad experience there, which might be why. But if he's willing to dish out thousands of dollars to visit me, instead of going on 2 trips to Thailand for that same amount of money, then he does not really want to go to Thailand, does he?

 

It doesn't change his make, his wiring, his emotional and mental state. You think every man just goes out and sleeps with prostitutes 4-5 times a year? Do you think it's the norm? He doesn't have to be in Thailand to engage in that behavior. He had a bad experience that is why he is not going anymore? It's not from a need to change his habits and his time spent on self-reflection? That's the reason, a bad experience?

 

Is it normal for a man to force his girlfriend into threesomes and even after saying no, check out escort services and lesbians in hopes to change her mind.

 

Who cares if he is not going to Thailand! Look at who he is and open your eyes to his mindset. Three months doesn't change a man that has these types of traits. And you even stated in your first thread that he lies. And if you labeled him a sociopath, trust that one of the biggest signs is their ability to easily lie.

 

I can't post on your thread anymore. You will do what you need to do and what your heart tells you to do. It's sad that you choose to set your sights on irrelevant issues such as him not going to Thailand when you should be focusing on what about his character chooses to engage in self-destructive behavior i.e. prostitutes and such and how his emotional/mental state is not healthy for you and how it could potentially hurt and affect you, again.

Edited January 27, 2013 by geegirl

[NoMoreJerks]

Geegirl: Well thank you for the advice. I understand what your'e saying, and maybe you're right. I certainly admit that I have issues. I also have a lot of baggage, and insecurities.. And I am working on them.

 

I don't really know if I did the right thing in getting back to this guy. None of my friends have advised me to get back with him. They have all advised me to RUN away from this guy, as fast as I can. But it is easier said than done sometimes. Maybe I did the wrong thing and I will regret this to no end.. and maybe it will hurt my self-esteem and self-respect even more. I don't know. Or maybe not. But if it turns out that he is genuine, I will always be telling myself, what if I had not given this another chance? I mean, sure, I know I gave him 2 chances too many, but maybe it can work out. I need to know that *I* put in my absolute best, and that it did not work out despite that. I don't think I really was acting normal/healthy myself, previously.

Edited January 27, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[geegirl]

Everyone is telling you to run because it's so plain to see how bad this is for you but when your heart is involved, you never make wise decisions and most times you will have to learn the hard way.

 

In any case, you'll do what you need to do. I wish you the best and hope this works out for you. I truly mean that.

[suladas]

Well I seen this coming, and like I said, I knew you wouldn't turn him down, even though you should. I can understand him being your first it's VERY tough, but seriously just look at what you have said about this guy how can you consider trying things a third time? It is beyond insane.

 

How do you know his work didn't change and he happens to have a trip to Canada now and that is the only reason he wants to get back together? How do you know he doesn't have girls in other countries exactly like you when it has been shown you can't trust him?

 

Now I don't know for sure, and I didn't want to say this but I truely believe, like 99% sure this guy sees you as a FWB and someone to spend time with when he's visiting you and nothing more. And sure he might have feelings for you, but that he doesn't think it's anywhere as serious as you think it is. Being your first relationship I can assure you your feelings for him are stronger then his feelings for you, it's a fact. I bet 99% chance AT LEAST that this guy has slept with other women when you have been together. A guy who has such little respect for you to pressure you into a threesome doesn't care about you.

 

I do get you're having a hard time moving on, being your first relationship and first sex. I get it, I had that to, I still have it to an extent. Your ex is easier, safer, and you know him. Trying to meet someone new is tough, and you don't know what's out there. But I can assure you there is millions of guys a million times better then this guy out there.

 

You are headed for another heartbreak if you get back together. As much as I hope I am wrong, I know i'm not. This guy is going to break your heart again if you give him a chance.

Edited January 27, 2013 by suladas

[suladas]

Geegirl: Well thank you for the advice. I understand what your'e saying, and maybe you're right. I certainly admit that I have issues. I also have a lot of baggage, and insecurities.. And I am working on them.

 

I don't really know if I did the right thing in getting back to this guy. None of my friends have advised me to get back with him. They have all advised me to RUN away from this guy, as fast as I can. But it is easier said than done sometimes. Maybe I did the wrong thing and I will regret this to no end.. and maybe it will hurt my self-esteem and self-respect even more. I don't know. Or maybe not. But if it turns out that he is genuine, I will always be telling myself, what if I had not given this another chance? I mean, sure, I know I gave him 2 chances too many, but maybe it can work out. I need to know that *I* put in my absolute best, and that it did not work out despite that. I don't think I really was acting normal/healthy myself, previously.

 

The thing is, the previous two times not working out had nothing to do with you, it was all him. I can understand wanting to put your best into a relationship and regret not working harder or doing things, but it wouldn't of made any difference anyways.

[NoMoreJerks]

How do you know his work didn't change and he happens to have a trip to Canada now and that is the only reason he wants to get back together?

Oh believe me, I would know. He emails me his e-tickets. He always did, when he came to visit my city for work. I know the agency that his company uses to book flights, and he can't have booked with that company if he books a personal flight/vacation.

 

How do you know he doesn't have girls in other countries exactly like you when it has been shown you can't trust him?

Well, I know for a fact that he doesn't have anyone in Turkey -- he was in Ankara for the most part, and that is a very conservative place with not much social life. He is an introvert anyway, and would rather stay in and watch movies and youtube videos than go out, except when it's with other male friends, and he has very few of those in Turkey right now. Aside from Turkey, he has only been to Canada. He started this job only fairly recently, and until now, he had been doing jobs mostly back home in the UK. And he met me on his first visit to Canada, 2 weeks into his stay. I would not be surprised if he did not do anything in Thailand with these prostitutes, just hung out with them. He really IS an introvert. I think he just has a complex about Thailand because 1) mid-life crisis; 2) he went there shortly after his last break-up, at his mates' insistence. So it's a comfort zone for him. I mean, yeah, he hangs out with whores, and that's bad enough. But this is a guy who was incredibly nervous when he met me. If *I* thought he was nervous -- and I am INCREDIBLY SHY and was a very nervous virgin when I met him -- then you can tell how shy/socially awkward he is.

 

Now I don't know for sure, and I didn't want to say this but I truely believe, like 99% sure this guy sees you as a FWB and someone to spend time with when he's visiting you and nothing more.

Until now, yeah -- now? Nope. His company just spent 5 grand to get him a 1-year resident permit for Turkey, because he's gonna be working there for most of the year.. He won't be coming to Canada for work much anymore, because this other guy who is stationed in Canada/North America, is now taking care of the job in Canada. Edited January 27, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[Toddbt12y1]

Nomore.

 

I realize you love the Guy, but everyone's right. If you take him back, nothing will change.

 

When you breakup again, you'll hurt more and this time look like a fool.

 

Take it from me, they don't change. But some people like misery.

 

Don't hobble yourself over this dude, didn't he already hurt you twice?

 

Be stronger than this. I warn you, misery awaits. But some people have to learn the hardest...that's hard for me to say, as I enjoy talking to you...but you're gonna be foolishly hurt, sorry.

[xxoo]

You can't fix him. You love him, I get it.....but loving him doesn't mean you have to let him drag you down with his issues. Tough love is loving him enough to stop enabling him.

 

Focus on fixing your issues. When you are stronger and healthier, then you will attract stronger and healthier. You will wonder what the heck you EVER saw in this guy. And you will have a lot more peace, love, and satisfaction in your life.

[Mme. Chaucer]

You're immersed in a self destructive fantasy. The deal you have had with this guy has NEVER been a boyfriend / girlfriend thing, and it is not going to magically become one. I'm really sorry.

[TaraMaiden]

Where's that brick wall...?

 

I need to repeatedly bang my head.

 

Hard.

[suladas]

I had JUST managed to get my motivation back and work on my career / school, etc. , and I will not let him, or his breadcrumbs, set me back.

 

He disrespected me and hurt me in the worst possible way, when he dumped me 2 days before Christmas, over some silly argument that he baited me into... because I was already mad that he had broken his promise to come visit me over Christmas...

 

I'm not here to babysit narcissists who can't control their anger/ rages , or who want to play a game of mindf*ckery. Nope. I need to get my work done, because you know what? I don't need him. Even if I remain single, there is nothing wrong with that, and nothing bad about that.. And there are so many men out there who would be impressed by what I've achieved, and who would appreciate how caring I am, and who would satisfy my needs.

 

Who is he in my life now? A nobody. He is not a bf, not a FWB, and definitely not a friend (cos I am not in the habit of keeping friends who abuse me).. he is just a memory, and a bad one at that... someone I will forget in a few months. The first week after the breakup, I thought about him a lot. Now? A few times a day... In a few months, probably not even more than once a day (if that).

 

I am done with his mind games and his attempts to exercise control over me.

 

He can keep his pathetic breadcrumbs to himself. He can throw them at his Thai prostitute girl friends with whom he keeps in touch, and whom he goes to see 4 times a year. Meanwhile, he did not even keep his promise to come visit me over Christmas.

 

Nope, it is OVER. He can cry his f*cking heart out and kill himself over me, and I still won't take him back.

 

/rant.

 

I can't help but read this post over, only posted a few days ago..... I cannot believe how much your opinion of him has changed.....

[suladas]

Things can't change though, it was tried twice nothing will be different. It's also dangerous to contact him, because there is a chance he will try to get back with you, and based on what happened last time i'd bet there is a chance he could talk you into it, which should not happen. If you didn't want to be with him and missed him, you wouldn't care about contacting him.

 

Nah. We're done. He doesn't want to get back with me. He didn't even try. And I'm glad he didn't. I don't want to try either. It's hard to let go of someone completely, when you lost your virginity to them, at 29. I would like to at least be friends down the line. But I know I can't right now, and it's not a good idea. He holds a special place in my heart if only because of that fact. That is all. I wish I could forget him, but I can't, because of that. If he were my nth boyfriend, I wouldn't find it so hard to move on and even forget about him, and not want to stay in touch.

 

And reading these over again wouldn't hurt. I hate that I was spot on with my prediction that he was going to try and get back with you, and that you actually accepted it.

[NoMoreJerks]

I hope it works out for you and with or without him you are happy. I just hope your not just stringing your self along only to be crushed again. Please tread carefully..if that is possible.

 

I know it is almost impossible to temper hope but you need to really be looking after yourself. Just remember your life doesn't depend on this guy. Ok? Good luck and still post here if you need to. Well always be around to help. Cav

Thank you, Cav. I really appreciate this. I know there is a huge chance I will get hurt from this, far worse than I was hurt in the past 2 attempts at working this out. I know that, and am going through this with my eyes wide open, just as I did last time. That doesn't mean it won't hurt like hell if I get rejected again or if things don't work out. But the thing is, he opened up to me, for the first time ever, and I couldn't have it on my conscience to reject him after that. He has a lot of baggage from his previous relationship (he was dumped 2 years ago), that he had not resolved when he met me, and he must've worked on some of that, to be able to bring himself to express his feelings for the first time ever. He was scared to show his feelings because he had trust issues after being hurt, and didn't want to feel vulnerable / lose that control, which he felt he'd be doing if he expressed his feelings towards a woman. So when he finally opened up, I couldn't just tell him I didn't want him anymore. Because, well, I did want him, and besides, even if I knew it wouldnt work out, I couldn't bear hurting him. I've been feeling tortured about him and about hurting him, ever since he sent me the first breadcrumb text after our break-up in December.

 

Maybe he did have feelings for me, and was scared of expressing them until now. Maybe he did not even realize he had feelings for me, because his head was still stuck in the past. Maybe a month of absence made him realize that he didn't just "like" me as a friend, that there might be more to it. He didn't say he loved me, but that's ok. I can understand that people have a hard time saying that, and it's something that I find cheesy anyway. I would much rather have actions that show that, than the words. Words can be empty without the actions to back them up. And in the presence of actions, I don't need the words to begin with. Sure, it might be a red flag if a person cannot express his feelings and tell a girl that he loves her, but we all have baggage, and it takes time to work on it. I am willing to give him , and this, another chance, and see where this goes. I know I said a lot about his personality disorder, etc., and I stand by that, but I really hope that he proves me wrong, that he proves that I was just being impulsive and saying these things about him out of anger.

 

THank you for your advice/support, etc. It means a lot that strangers on this site have helped me so much. I'm sticking around, and hope I can help others as well, and get more advice on here from very smart , experienced, and brilliant people.

[MrNate 2.0]

Thank you, Cav. I really appreciate this. I know there is a huge chance I will get hurt from this, far worse than I was hurt in the past 2 attempts at working this out. I know that, and am going through this with my eyes wide open, just as I did last time. That doesn't mean it won't hurt like hell if I get rejected again or if things don't work out. But the thing is, he opened up to me, for the first time ever, and I couldn't have it on my conscience to reject him after that. He has a lot of baggage from his previous relationship (he was dumped 2 years ago), that he had not resolved when he met me, and he must've worked on some of that, to be able to bring himself to express his feelings for the first time ever. He was scared to show his feelings because he had trust issues after being hurt, and didn't want to feel vulnerable / lose that control, which he felt he'd be doing if he expressed his feelings towards a woman. So when he finally opened up, I couldn't just tell him I didn't want him anymore. Because, well, I did want him, and besides, even if I knew it wouldnt work out, I couldn't bear hurting him. I've been feeling tortured about him and about hurting him, ever since he sent me the first breadcrumb text after our break-up in December.

 

Maybe he did have feelings for me, and was scared of expressing them until now. Maybe he did not even realize he had feelings for me, because his head was still stuck in the past. Maybe a month of absence made him realize that he didn't just "like" me as a friend, that there might be more to it. He didn't say he loved me, but that's ok. I can understand that people have a hard time saying that, and it's something that I find cheesy anyway. I would much rather have actions that show that, than the words. Words can be empty without the actions to back them up. And in the presence of actions, I don't need the words to begin with. Sure, it might be a red flag if a person cannot express his feelings and tell a girl that he loves her, but we all have baggage, and it takes time to work on it. I am willing to give him , and this, another chance, and see where this goes. I know I said a lot about his personality disorder, etc., and I stand by that, but I really hope that he proves me wrong, that he proves that I was just being impulsive and saying these things about him out of anger.

 

THank you for your advice/support, etc. It means a lot that strangers on this site have helped me so much. I'm sticking around, and hope I can help others as well, and get more advice on here from very smart , experienced, and brilliant people.

 

Hey, keep on doing what you feel is right, NMJ.

[Allumere]

Repeat this until it sinks in.."YOU CAN't FIX HIM"

 

I'm not going to crucify the dude although I can't say I don't have negative vibes based on his story. It doesn't matter that he opened up to you....really, it doesnt. He is broke, broke, broke. You have acknowledged he has personality issues. They have not been fixed and chances are without years of theraphy, desire and probably some medications they will never be. Things will not change. If he has any awareness at all he needs to spend the next couple of years (yes, years) working on him...and that does not include you at all.

 

You don't have to be cruel or nasty to him but you will not achieve ANYTHING for yourself if you keep this weight attached to you. You will be where you were during the holidays this time next year if you open this door guaranteed.

 

Look out for you. Period.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Just do yourself and everyone else a favor and accept the fact that this guy is who he is. He's the exact same person whether you are going along with your fantasy about him, and when he's had enough of it. He's not a good guy today because he acted like he "opened up" to you and a horrible guy the day before yesterday because he didn't care about you, or a few weeks ago when he was "forcing" you to troll bars for a lesbian and to watch nonstop porn. He is the exact same person. And he will be tomorrow and next month, regardless of what happens between now and then in your dealings with him. So, please, stop villainizing him when things aren't going your way. It's wrong.

 

And - you should change your user name!

[NoMoreJerks]

Just do yourself and everyone else a favor and accept the fact that this guy is who he is. He's the exact same person whether you are going along with your fantasy about him, and when he's had enough of it. He's not a good guy today because he acted like he "opened up" to you and a horrible guy the day before yesterday because he didn't care about you, or a few weeks ago when he was "forcing" you to troll bars for a lesbian and to watch nonstop porn. He is the exact same person. And he will be tomorrow and next month, regardless of what happens between now and then in your dealings with him. So, please, stop villainizing him when things aren't going your way. It's wrong.

 

And - you should change your user name!

Not at all -- I do not villainize him. His behaviour was sh*tty and remains sh*tty (what he did before), and nothing is going to change that. It's not about changing my tune about what he did in the past. It's about giving him a chance to prove that he can or is willing to change -- in the present / future. I still stand by the stuff I said about him -- about the way he treated me and the issues he has. That won't change. I still think he is a narcissist / BPD mix, but I'm willing to see whether or not I am really wrong. I hope I'm proven wrong. I don't need to change my username -- if he acts like a jerk to me again, then clearly, things won't be working out between us. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk some of this up to a misunderstanding / mistakes we both made, and hope that he would prove me wrong about the other disorder/issues stuff. But no, I still stand by my username: no more jerks.

[xxoo]

When someone shows you who they are--believe them.

 

Why would you choose to be with someone who has treated you poorly, in hopes that he can and will change?

 

I hear the roller coaster clicking upwards.....

[Toddbt12y1]

Not at all -- I do not villainize him. His behaviour was sh*tty and remains sh*tty (what he did before), and nothing is going to change that. It's not about changing my tune about what he did in the past. It's about giving him a chance to prove that he can or is willing to change -- in the present / future. I still stand by the stuff I said about him -- about the way he treated me and the issues he has. That won't change. I still think he is a narcissist / BPD mix, but I'm willing to see whether or not I am really wrong. I hope I'm proven wrong. I don't need to change my username -- if he acts like a jerk to me again, then clearly, things won't be working out between us. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and chalk some of this up to a misunderstanding / mistakes we both made, and hope that he would prove me wrong about the other disorder/issues stuff. But no, I still stand by my username: no more jerks.

 

You're gonna end up hurt. Guys and ladies, she will have to see herself. Let it be. But nomore, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, you will be hurt again. I doubt you'll get as much sympathy when it happens.

He is a manipulator. But really, it isn't him manipulating you. You're doing that to yourself.

 

It shouldn't take three times. This is no movie, third times the charm won't work. Then you're left ashamed and utterly defeated -- none of us want that.

[TaraMaiden]

Just shaking my head, here.... just shaking my head.....

 

I don't think you can see just what an extraordinary 180 you've made.

 

I can scarcely believe it.

And I'm sorry, but you most certainly did villainise him.

 

 

 

His behaviour was sh*tty and remains sh*tty (what he did before), and nothing is going to change that.

 

 

I still stand by the stuff I said about him -- about the way he treated me and the issues he has. That won't change. I still think he is a narcissist / BPD mix

 

hope that he would prove me wrong about the other disorder/issues stuff.

 

You said much that was unfounded and mere supposition. That is villainising someone.

 

Really, I cannot fathom how someone can have such strong, heartfelt, deep and intense opinions one day - and suddenly do an astounding, complete about-turn the next.

[NoMoreJerks]

You said much that was unfounded and mere supposition. That is villainising someone.

Such as?

 

Really, I cannot fathom how someone can have such strong, heartfelt, deep and intense opinions one day - and suddenly do an astounding, complete about-turn the next.

My opinion of him has not changed -- what part of it has changed? Did I say he no longer is a narcissist? He has not even apologized for what he did/said/etc. So yeah, I can still clearly see that he is a narcissist -- and I know that people don't change overnight when they have NPD/BPD, etc. But again, I am willing to give this another shot because I still love him, and I never claimed to have stopped loving him. Where do you see a complete turnabout in my opinion of him?

[TaraMaiden]

No.

Not going to get drawn into this.

 

I can recognise a "Just wasting my breath " scenario when I see it.

[NoMoreJerks]

You're gonna end up hurt. Guys and ladies, she will have to see herself. Let it be. But nomore, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, you will be hurt again. I doubt you'll get as much sympathy when it happens.

He is a manipulator. But really, it isn't him manipulating you. You're doing that to yourself.

 

It shouldn't take three times. This is no movie, third times the charm won't work. Then you're left ashamed and utterly defeated -- none of us want that.

I know he is a manipulator. He has manipulated me before, and he may be doing that now too. But just because someone manipulated before doesn't mean he will always manipulate you. You want me to treat him as they treated the way who cried wolf. Fine, I get it. But the moral of the story is that not every time that the boy cried wolf was he really lying.